User talk:CptJohnMiller

Do not remove useful historical data, please
We cannot start an article about the Archer's Post Training Area if people remove the initial historical datapoints that are carefully added. Be more careful. Buckshot06 (talk) 09:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * You're aware the East African Engineers don't exist anymore? CptJohnMiller (talk) 15:47, 14 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes!! An article for Archer's Post Training Area, starting roughly when the South Africans turned up in 1940 or so, would include the East African Engineers, and you should not be so thoughtlessly dismissive of your own army's history - you do realise two divisions of West Africans played a major role out east under Slim? Why are you removing data about the history of the training area? Archer's Post has inherent value on this website beyond BATUK - Kenyan and Somali use, including the Jubaland trainees in 2010-11. Buckshot06 (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * East African Engineers wouldn't have been based at BATUK though, as it didn't exist at the time. East African Engineer use of Archer's Post has nothing to do with BATUK. Create a specific Archer's Post page for that. CptJohnMiller (talk) 18:23, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The point was not the East African Engineers. The point was the APTA. I went carefully through all the online sources immediately available to find the earliest mention of the British Army in that training area, and added it - so everything in succeeding years could be added on top of that.


 * Why are you removing data about the history of the training area? Archer's Post has inherent value on this website beyond BATUK, East Africa Command, British Land Forces Kenya, and British Army use of the training area after 1963 but before formation of BATUK - Kenya Army and Somali use, including the Jubaland trainees in 2010-11.


 * You do not own this article (see WP:OWN), and all available context right now for the APTA is located there. There is no value at present splitting off a one line article. There may be later - if people don't remove the initial data points.


 * We try to avoid being WP:RECENTIST on this site. Buckshot06 (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * ? Are you ok? East African Engineers have nothing to do with British Army Training Unit Kenya. It is not a British Army unit, nor is it a current unit, nor does it have anything in common with BATUK except that they both used Archer's Post at some point. Create a page about Archer's Post. BATUK is not the place for random nonsense about East African Engineers. CptJohnMiller (talk) 18:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The fact that 'East African Engineers' doesn't even have its own wikipedia page proves how unimportant it is CptJohnMiller (talk) 18:48, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Not at all. What it show is that British associated military pages on Wikipedia are almost always written by people interested in right now - they are WP:RECENTIST. The professional historians who would know that the East African Engineers were the engineer arm of the King's African Rifles, very definitely a British Army colonial corps, and dispatched several field companies on operations in World War II, don't tend to spend time on this site. You will find handily the East African Engineers if you look at the Engineer components of 1st African Division and 11th (East Africa) Division.

Now, again, the APTA article does not exist as yet. It has served the King's African Rifles, the SA Army, the British Army after 1945, the Kenya Army, and others for 90 plus years. It's a relevant part of British Army and Kenya Army history. Do not remove data about your own army's history which will impede telling more of that history!! Buckshot06 (talk) 20:30, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. The History Wizard of Cambridge (talk) 01:17, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

International Peace Support Training Centre
Dear Captain Miller, I regret the slightly sharp tones of our earlier discussions. We are actually firmly on the same side!! I would invite you to take a look at this article by Marco Jowell, now with FCDO Africa Research, and pass it on as appropriate:

Jowell, Marco. "The unintended consequences of foreign military assistance in Africa: An analysis of peacekeeping training in Kenya." Journal of Eastern African Studies 12, no. 1 (2018): 102-119.

One minor point for the future of the BATUK article in regard to IPSTC that you will gather is that IPSTC is actually not a British Army unit or sub-unit; it's an international centre supported by the Kenyan Govt, though with significant foreign funding. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 21:06, 15 June 2023 (UTC)