User talk:Cricket02/Archive3

Please do not edit this archive.

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Journeycontinues.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Journeycontinues.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 05:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Solojourney1.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Solojourney1.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 05:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Bjpetslove.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Bjpetslove.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 06:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Yearsnaradapiano.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Yearsnaradapiano.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 06:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Rapture1.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Rapture1.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 06:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Journeycontinues2.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Journeycontinues2.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 07:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Onedeepbreath.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Onedeepbreath.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 07:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Optimysticyanni.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Optimysticyanni.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 07:13, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Storiesnarada.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Storiesnarada.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 07:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Theroadahead.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Theroadahead.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 04:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Naradasmoothjazz.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Naradasmoothjazz.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 05:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:BJSignature.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:BJSignature.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 21:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Yanniyellow.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Yanniyellow.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 09:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:Yannigallery2.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Yannigallery2.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:


 * 1) Go to the image description page and edit it to add , without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 7 days after this notification, per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ed g2s &bull; talk 14:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Yannigallery2.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Yannigallery2.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Aksibot 05:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Robbins Island.ogg)
 Thanks for uploading Image:Robbins Island.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. —Angr 17:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Bradley_Joseph_The_Bridge.ogg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Bradley_Joseph_The_Bridge.ogg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. MER-C 11:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Hear_the_Masses.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:Hear_the_Masses.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted after seven days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.  But | seriously | folks   18:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Image:Thejourneycontinues.jpg
I have tagged Image:Thejourneycontinues.jpg as a disputed use of non-free media, because there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please clarify your fair use rationale on the image description page. Thank you.  But | seriously | folks   18:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Hear the Masses.jpg
This is an automated message from a robot. Thanks for uploading Image:Hear the Masses.jpg. The file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 02:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. If you believe you received this message in error, please notify the bot's owner. Thank you. HermesBot 02:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Yanniethnicity.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Yanniethnicity.jpg. Unfortunately, I think that you have not provided a proper rationale for using this image under "fair use". Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. Note that the image description page must include the exact name or a link to each article the image is used in and a separate rationale for each one. (If a link is used, automated processes may improperly add the related tag to the image.  Please change the fair use template to refer to the exact name, if you see this warning.)

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted after seven days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Rockfang (talk) 20:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Gee, thanks!
Wow, did I deserve a barnstar?

Anyhow, thanks a million! :D -- MusicalConnoisseur  Got Classical? 22:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Quite easily! Your're welcome.  Cheers.  ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 17:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Bands
I did what was requested on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music. You were involved in that discussion, so what do you think? --Qsaw (talk) 17:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I have to run but will try and have a look soon. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 17:38, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Portal
Cricket02, the portal is about as done as done can be from my side. It is AOK to change anything: the colors, attitude/tone of the instructions, and the little suggest icon if you want. Off to nominate it in a minute as the peer review for this kind of thing is probably always thin and the page is low priority to the WikiProject in terms of views. -Susanlesch (talk) 05:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You're so sweet. Does that mean I don't have to test on Windows? Only kidding. Thanks for your note. -Susanlesch (talk) 03:31, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes that tool is a great gift. I and likely others would be interested in what you've found. Another user did some tallies yesterday at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Minnesota if you're interested. -Susanlesch (talk) 06:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Norman Beaker
Hi, I just noticed that NB is up for AfD, what a travesty. If you need any help trying to forestall this then I'm your man :)

It's 4:20am here at the mo' so I'll have to leave it until tomorrow now, but I see what info I can drag up on hi.

Well done on the fight you're putting up and the work on the article. As an uninvolved Beaker fan I appreciate it. -- Web H amster  04:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You're quite welcome, but I thank you as well for the help with the sources. I've not been able to get back to it of late so your help is really appreciated.  Thanks WH!  Cheers. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 17:35, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: Barnstar
Coming from you, that means a lot! Thank you so much. -- Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 06:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Bradley Joseph
I've trimmed the article back a bit; it's still too long. The subject isn't Albert Einstein; I really don't think lengthy quotes from him, or by critics about his music, are justified - such text is more like liner notes than what should be in encyclopedic article. Plus they make the article read too much like a PR release or an "official" biography.

It's clear that a huge amount of work has gone into the article; I just don't think there is 42kb of newsworthy/important things to say.

I do think the lead section is now the right length. And I'm not going to make any further edits, but if I were, my goal would be to shorten the "Solo career" and "Musical style and composition" sections by between 20 and 40 percent. The rest of the body of the article now seems about right. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:28, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

POV and what Wikipedia is not
It's certainly correct that anything opinionated has to be clearly attributed, and quotations are by far the safest approach (since paraphrasing opinion is inherently problematical). My recommendations with the article don't concern attribution (it is very nicely documented), but rather length.

Off of Wikipedia, there is a game (sorry, don't know the link) of comparing lengths of biographical articles - say, a minor modern-day painter versus a major 17th century British prime minister, to show that something is wrong. Sometimes the reason for the discrepancy is that the shorter article is simply much too short (lack of interested editors, lack of on-line sources, etc.), but often it's the case that the long article is much too long. (How important is Paris Hilton, really?)

The relevant polices at Wikipedia are WP:NPOV - that lengthy text (space) in an article can upset its balance, making it non-neutral, and WP:NOT, that Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate collector of information. Since the article we're talking about isn't controversial, it might appear that WP:NPOV doesn't apply, but I think it does. If an article has lengthy quotes by the subject of the article, that implies that those quotes are important - as important as the other information in the article. That's why I removed an entire section of the article - because I didn't think that the musician's opining about his philosophy of music (I think that was what it was; I've not checked) was particularly important. (How should that be analyzed, objectively? Relevant questions include whether (a) that philosophy has been extensively discussed in newspapers and magazines, and (b) whether that philosophy has affected other artists.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:Classical
Just to let you know, articles already covered by WP:Composers are not covered by WP:Classical so there's no need to tag an article with Template:Classical if Template:Composers is already there. Thanks!  Centy  – [ reply ]• contribs  – 18:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What? That makes no sense.  Not all composers are classical composers so why not differentiate.  ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 19:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Paulinho Da Costa
Thank you so much for the suggestions and the example pages. The filmography looks much better with the columns. Anything else, please let me know. Vibem —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibem (talk • contribs) 19:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar
I would just like to say thanks - I wasn't expecting it! :-) — Wackymacs (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Jay Friedman
There was no need for me to establish notability there from the get-go, because notability is patently irrelevant. The only thing that matters is verifiable existence. Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 18:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, I agree that the links are perhaps useful for further expansion--but the references section is only for references that are actually used in the article in its current state. Perhaps we could move them to the talk page until then. Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 18:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No need to establish notability? Notability is patently irrelevant?  Are you kidding?  I think you've been around long enough to know better.  One of the very simple three core content policies is very simple - Verfiability.  Your one-sentence contribution Jay Friedman (b. 1939) is the principal trombonist for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra is very sad.  While many of us, myself included, believe that a principal musician in a major orchestra is notable, no where is it written that it is automatically notable.  No where.  It still has to be proven that he is notable through verifiable sources, which you have seen fit to not provide.  Your argument in the first Afd was that this article was nominated for deletion too quickly - within less than a day of creation - which I get.  And that you needed time to expand it, and I get that too.  Well, damit, you've made close to a thousand edits since you created this article 5 months ago.  You should have done the research by now, and saved us all a hell of a lot of time and energy with a 2nd Afd, and doing the work you should have done in the first place - to prove your "verifiable existence".  And then you have the nerve to remove sourcing that someone (me) took the time to find in order to save this article.  Unbelievable.  No.  The sources stay.  And...references section is only for references that are actually used in the article in its current state. is BS, and not written anywhere either.   Period.  ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 19:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a place for bureaucratic masturbation--it's a place to get a job done. There are no rules, as such, on Wikipedia.  The only relevant criterion is "Is Wikipedia better or worse?"  The fact is, "notability" is substantially undefined and totally arbitrary.  It's extremely popular to assert that notability is important, but it's not.  Verifiable existence is the ONLY thing that matters.
 * And my statement about the purpose of the References section is correct, your denial notwithstanding. Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 01:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No rules on Wikipedia. Funny.  I think you are making up your own rules as you go along, as I have not read any of what you state.  A lot of headaches went into learning policy here.  You must read The Five Pillars for a start.  Notability is not undefined, there is plenty to read up on that at Notability, WP:Bio, and WP:Music.  And if verifiable existence is the only thing that matters, you should have provided some verifiability on the article.  I'm not watching it any more anyway, so do what you want.  I only worked to save it.  You're welcome.  ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 02:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Believe me, I've read all the so-called "policies" multiple times. They're just that: so-called.  They're not actually rules we have to follow--they're merely descriptions of what has typically happened in certain situations in the past, that are totally not binding on us in the present.  They are not prescriptive or imperative at all.  Really, the only question that matters is, "Does this make Wikipedia better?"  If it does, and the "rules" contradict it, then the "rules" lose.  Everyone used to understand this, but unfortunately the newer generation somehow missed that memo.  Kurt Weber ( Go Colts! ) 02:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Kathryn Toyama
Good evening--long time no chat! I note that you added Kathryn Toyama to List of classical pianists, but her Wikipedia article and her Web site suggest that, while classically trained, she is actually a new age performer/composer; in a hasty review I saw no evidence of a classical performing career, which, of course, is hardly conclusive(!). Be that as it may, if she doesn't have a track record performing classical music, I'm not sure she really "goes" on the classical pianists list. (Maybe we need a new list for new age and crossover pianists; in trying to wrestle the classical lists into shape, I've come across more than one artist inhabiting a grey area.) Do you know whether she actually has devoted a significant part of her performing career to classical music? Secondarily, has she recorded any classical music? If so, then she should also go on Classical pianists (recorded). Thanks! Drhoehl (talk) 23:23, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info! I moved her to List of new age and new instrumental musicians. Drhoehl (talk) 21:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)