User talk:Csdidier/Public Debt Vocabulary Shift

Public debt draft
Hello Csdidier, appreciate the opportunity to comment. First, you did a nice job with the writing and the explanation. Plus, I like the easy to understand diagrams. I suggest the following: 1) Alternative titles to make it more of a part of the history of the debt, such as "U.S. National Debt - History of Terminology" or "U.S. National Debt - Nomenclature History" Second, instead of using "Step 1, Step 2" I suggest using years this terminology shift became apparent. If you have a source that describes this change in naming as a trend or process, then cite that to support your Step 1, Step 2 approach. This will avoid somebody tagging it as original research.Farcaster (talk) 02:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Good eye Forecaster . . . . it is original research, and as such it is disqualified . . . i can't help but admire how quickly you went straight to the point. Ireferences, but yet the analysis had no references . . . good job. There are plenty of references that will attest to the current state of ambiguity, (the funniest by far is the Pulitzer Prize Winning Fact-Checking website that was unable to verify or disprove whether Bill Clinton paid down the debt or not - because they were unable to get a clear consensus on what the public debt was . . . )but I haven't come across any research that attempted to uncover what the root causes were . . . because as far as I know noone has bothered to try.


 * Another point of criticism is the fact that the 'Step 3' included a cartoon . . . and was obviously satirical and 'editorial' in nature.


 * Now I'm considering removing all the analysis . . . and simply making it a report of different usages . . . i. e. the GAO uses the term Gross Federal Debt as what the Treasury uses as the Public Debt . . . the Treasury formally defined the Gross Federal Debt as something different . . . etc.


 * Also in the "Accounting Changes in 2001" section I think you should point out that under the prior accounting, the intragovernmental debt was called the "non-marketable" debt. You should probably clarify that the intragovernmental amounts are not marketable securities and therefore are not the same as the public debt.Farcaster (talk) 02:23, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Farcaster, with all due respect, it states quite clearly in the definition of public debt on this U. S. Treasury Website, that intra-governmental holdings are included in the public debt . . . so what you have said here doesn't make any sense.


 * Oh I see, you meant to say, ". . . not the same as the Debt Held by the Public"  . . . no - a percentage of the non-marketable debt is categorized as "Debt Held by the Public" . . . ordinary people are allowed to purchase non-marketable Treasury securities if they want to.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.4.15.74 (talk) 18:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

images, what does an arrow mean?
The images at the top are the most eye catching thing. What is an arrow? I think that would be useful to say. I also have to imagine there has been changes between 1800 and 2000. 018 (talk) 23:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The arrows are intended to indicate synonymity. Yes you are right . . . I'm beginning to find out that the Public Debt has a very rich history.  I'm particularly interested in this recent bit because I remember how 10 years ago there was simply the Public Debt . . . and that was the National Debt . . . life was very easy . . . then after 10 years of grad school, I look around and things are very confusing nowadays . . . and I was curious to find out why . . . so I've done some research, and as Farcaster pointed out it is original research, and hence it is inadmissable in the court of Wikipedia.


 * I sent a letter to the Bureau of the Public Debt regarding the website I linked in Farcasters reply. They sent me an email back saying that they do not administer that site . . . so they have directed me to someone else in the U. S. Treasury.  I will email that new person shortly.


 * I've also made friends with a historian who specializes on the public debt. He says I can ask him any questions I want, as long as they are short questions.


 * I've been thinking of doing a major edit on the United States public debt page removing any place where "Public Debt" is used as a synonym for "Debt Held by the Public" . . . My thinking is that since the U. S. Treasury formally defines these terms as distinct, Wikipedia should echo that. This would be a major edit and a lot of work . . . and I'd like to build a consensus before I do anything like that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Csdidier (talk • contribs) 15:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)