User talk:Cuprum17/Archive2019

The Bugle: Issue CLIII, January 2019
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US Air Force Academy
Hi! Why [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_Air_Force_Academy&oldid=prev&diff=877425058 was this edit of mine reverted? The edit summary makes no mention of why, and it's not good to not specify a reason].

WP:ENGVAR says that the style of English in an article must be relevant to its English-speaking country. For example an article about a U.S. subject (not concerning another English-speaking country) should use American-style English. This extends to the date format: "These varieties (for example American English or British English) differ in vocabulary (elevator vs. lift), spelling (center vs. centre), date formatting ("April 13, 2018" vs. "13 April 2018")" The page also states: "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the (formal, not colloquial) English of that nation."

Apparently the US military uses "DAY MONTH YEAR" in written documents, but Wikipedia is meant for a general audience mostly made of civilians, and civilians in the US still use "Month Day Year". The Navy correspondence guide http://web.archive.org/web/20110103030517/http://doni.daps.dla.mil/secnav%20manuals1/5216.5.pdf says on PDF document page 25/145 (2- 11) that month first is to be used when writing to civilians. The whole day first thing is only for internal military use. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The dmy format has been established on this article some time ago ago. Please see the second line of code. This usage is almost universally used throughout military articles on English Wikipedia. I'm not saying it is right, but that is the way it is. To change every US English military article to a mdy format would require editing thousands of articles and thousands of instances of dmy usage within those articles. Many of these article are A class or featured articles that have been reviewed several times by editors like yourself and there obviously have been no objections to the dmy format. I personally can't see what your objection to day month year formating is. It conveys the same information to the reader and the reader would have little or no problem in understanding the meaning. You have reverted my edit. Are you willing to change all dmy formatting on other US English military articles? Be careful of what you ask for. I would be willing to bet that you would be reverted by other editors if you start a project changing dmy formatting on US English military articles for the sake of uniformity. The articles are already uniformly dmy format; why change them? As for WP:ENGVAR, there are no hard and fast rules on Wikipedia; it is a suggested format. Please give my response to your comment some thought and consideration. Cuprum17 (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the reply. It is true that one hand date formatting is not the most functionally critical thing on an article, but on the other hand people have argued over it across various articles to the point where a Manual of Style section was written for it. TBH there's had been a lot more wrangling over articles which don't/didn't have ties to a particular country (as there's no particular "right answer"), and that is why the "creator's choice determines it" was chosen. Otherwise usually there's a solid agreement when there's a solid tie to a particular country.
 * It is true that occasional exceptions may apply, but one thing I've noticed, lately, is that one has to justify the exception. What I might suggest, if this hasn't happened already, is getting agreement from the wider Wikipedia community (on a Manual of Style discussion page and/or a Request for Comment) that the U.S. military articles can use a different DMY formatting from other U.S.-related articles. One thing that might be a barrier to that is the military style guidelines themselves say to use month-first in letters meant for civilians, but perhaps that could be overlooked. Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style does make it clear "Although Wikipedia contains some highly technical content, it is written for a general audience." and "Wikipedia defaults to preferring general-audience sources on style, especially when a specialized preference may conflict with most readers' expectations, and when different disciplines use conflicting styles." This line would be relevant in cases of an article which is relevant to the U.S. military but is also relevant to another major topic area.
 * It would be best IMO start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style, so that any resulting MOS changes or MOS exceptions for military-related articles would have a broad mandate.
 * P.S. I am a little surprised to hear date formatting wasn't brought up at any Featured Article processes, though perhaps the MOS may not have been as solidly formed back at the time these FAs occurred. While it is technically true that Wikipedia has "no hard and fast rules", adherence to guidelines has been strengthened because people have gotten into conflicts over these sorts of things.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 01:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * It would appear that this has already been agreed upon by consensus: According to WP:ENGVAR, Strong national ties to a topic:


 * In some topic areas, the customary format differs from the usual national one: for example, articles on the modern US military, including US military biographical articles, use day-before-month, in accordance with US military usage.

Accordingly, I am changing the date format back to dmy on the United States Air Force Academy article.Cuprum17 (talk) 18:14, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for finding that... I hadn't seen that exception in there, to be honest. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:27, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks
Don't thank me yet, it keeps getting reverted. - wolf  18:27, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLIV, February 2019
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Thank you!
I just found your congratulatory note on my User page, so I’m late getting back to you. As always, thank you for your kind words and help with the footnote. Hopefully, things are well with you and you’ll soon be seeing signs of spring in the Sun Flower State. Thanks again! Pendright (talk) 07:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLV, March 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLVI, April 2019
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Jeep
And they were used on farms in SK. Don’t you wish they still made them like this? https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5b/29/51/5b2951514566f21bf01c404a35810790.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/17/4d/3c/174d3cd5b4b6caa9189bb70d41cec9d6.jpg Image https://i.pinimg.com/564x/aa/56/c7/aa56c7e01cfa44f5e1e762c490b198ee.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/32/d3/cc/32d3cccd06b68bff6c099a4b8e26b46f.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b5/6b/4f/b56b4fe3f83e331c04581e46a05a499c.jpg The Transmission https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f4/19/f1/f419f19a83579ebd9a7a00d15fdda949.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/7e/e7/bc/7ee7bcd2d0602ccef3c42c1227f56cf0.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/bf/81/9b/bf819b64111b08c81279047274de70bd.jpg ãƒ•ãƒªãƒ•ãƒª(@furifuri66)ã•ã‚“ | Twitter https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f6/2c/02/f62c02123ac3eed820f2f241c9bc588a.jpg 4th-Armoured-jeep-lathe.jpg (850Ã—1140) https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b2/6f/34/b26f34b9bbcef175ab8ce2d8ed0716a1.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b8/43/b3/b843b328717e0bea8fec65e6eac4f435.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a6/e1/46/a6e1462bdf7bd36061d066e27f4c8a43.jpg Early Willys MB with mud flotation adaptors https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d0/74/a3/d074a332a859cf544939cbd4ac492dd4.jpg Old time off road tracks on a Jeep https://i.pinimg.com/564x/90/11/72/9011727971e9c78f939841faed5b193e.jpg Just for fun https://i.pinimg.com/564x/85/b2/56/85b256b366e06419110e85bc619180cd.jpg Great piece of equipment to tow behind your Willys MB https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a0/cd/e2/a0cde2c9edb4c4c0f6f364c32ca30960.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/02/85/b40285bce5a49907173c23de87b4bb76.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f6/d6/ef/f6d6ef5c7a2a421f764aa04e677b2919.jpg oldschoolgarage: â€œ Jeep warehouse,location unknown â€ Jeep warehouse, location unknown https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e9/1e/51/e91e51d753402b1578fe7adf46d651c7.jpg Did you order a jeep? https://i.pinimg.com/564x/94/68/ac/9468ac37f43183467443da98ac84299b.jpg Now that’s a kit I would like to have. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0d/60/f9/0d60f9be5a205e2451118002cda8e065.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/89/b8/61/89b8617429efebd5fbfc60d3ef4bc26a.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ef/31/2f/ef312f73948be2f4e9b813b01eaa1a4d.jpg I think the Roy Rogers show bought this version as Nelly Bell. Jeep https://i.pinimg.com/564x/38/13/73/381373f6b198064d42b2b86eb1ea6f1e.jpg Bullet holes in the windshield of this Jeep are a testament to the faithful service of the Medics of the 84th Division as they evacuate wounded soldiers in their makeshift Jeep ambulance. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0c/3c/98/0c3c982fd4384a39f31bea864b6b5475.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/52/6b/d1/526bd1dbfdea28312e672e75739e5f82.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0f/73/bd/0f73bde23187e222434c136c5150645d.jpg Donna Reed Even then they needed armed guards to protect their Jeeps. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/3a/20/cd/3a20cd5da7b51bb0131f41b23d7c9d52.jpg Jeep in a Glider â˜…ã€‚â˜†ã€‚JpM ENTERTAINMENT â˜†ã€‚â˜…ã€‚ https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d7/f7/bb/d7f7bb2199d7d7babed287f81f1b4873.jpg Experimental rocket firing jeep, US Navy Naval Air Facility, Inyokern, CA, 26 January 1945. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/88/14/1b/88141b891157462d261f59122755a8c8.jpg Jeep towing on an aircraft carrier – WWII https://i.pinimg.com/564x/35/ad/30/35ad30821872e134813e1ac8051e7090.jpg That’s a lot of Jeeps https://i.pinimg.com/564x/14/37/f2/1437f2fa4415e7892aebcc5275701e71.jpg A Special Air Service jeep patrol is greeted by its commander, Colonel David Stirling, on its return from the desert. 18 January 1943. Remember “The Desert Rats?” https://i.pinimg.com/564x/3d/99/a7/3d99a7f628334509e866490a489e2788.jpg Long Range Desert Group which carried out raids & recons deep behind enemy lines in North Africa between 1940 - 1943. https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif Virus-free. www.avast.com

I thought you might enjoy these images.

Pendright (talk) 05:54, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Thank you for the slide show. I have seen several of these before, but there were several that I had never seen. The rail car loaded with Jeeps was real interesting and I had never seen it before. I will have to pass that one on to some of my Jeep buddies over on another site. The first civilian Jeeps (1945-1949) were originally made to be used on the farm and they were designed so they could be used as a tractor. The gearing was even lower than the World War II version so that it could pull a one bottom plow or a disk. Mine is a 1946 model...I'm a 1947 model...I bought it in April 1969 so that means I've owned it for 50 years. I hope all is well with you... Cuprum17 (talk) 13:00, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm glad some of it was new to you. I never owned a Jeep, but I did own a Jeepster, remember them? Anyway, I'm well and hope you are too. Pendright (talk) 00:13, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLVII, May 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLVIII, June 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLIX, July 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019
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Backlog Banzai
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The Bugle: Issue CLXI, September 2019
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Douglas Albert Munro
Hi. I should have answered more fully earlier, but I was busy in RL. I have had five TFAs in the last seven months. The first was a bit traumatic, but now I am more relaxed/resigned - my next is up in six days. The TFA team, and other helpers, keep an eye on TFAs. They will revert obvious vandalism as it happens. My understanding - which may be faulty- is that Wiki-rules do not permit them to protect a page proactively, they have to wait for a certain level of repeated vandalism to which they can then respond with protection.

Sorting things out shouldn't be too tricky: leave it until say Sunday afternoon, for things to die down. Do a collective diff of all of the edits since the last stable version, which looks like that one on 8 October, and run through all of the orange and blue, changing back to how it was where you wish - you may well find that a number of the changes are improvements. Use an edit summary something like "Reverting a number of good faith TFA inspired changes to the article's post-FAC state". It is unlikely that you will get any further trouble. If I am wrong, or if any of this is not clear, feel free to give me a ping. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:38, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
 * After looking over the carnage, I believe that followers of that article have done a good job of sorting out and repairing the damages that were attempted. I will do a double check as you suggest. Thanks for the reply. Cuprum17 (talk) 16:44, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXII, October 2019
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The Bugle: Issue CLXIII, November 2019
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Chu Lai Base Area
Hello,

Is the Chu Lai Base Area and Chu Lai Air Base the same place? Both articles talk of an airfield and the co-ordinates are very close together? Gavbadger (talk) 21:37, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * According to, page 5-108, there is Chu Lai at grid coordinates BT 555-035 and Chu Lai Airfield at BT 537-062. Chu Lai was mostly a U.S. Marine installation along with the U.S. Army Americal Division. There was a Ky Ha Marine Air Facility 2 Kilometers north of the north end of the Chu Lai Airfield runway at BT 529-116 and an U.S. Army Heliport 5 kilometers NNE of Ky Ha Air Facility at BT 532-114.
 * The Kelley reference is an excellent reference for locating various installations that were active during the Vietnam War and I highly recommend it for someone studying the Vietnam War.
 * I was stationed at the Vietnamese Army III Corps Compound adjacent to Bien Hoa Air Base from September 1966 to December 1968. Although my job was as an Army photo laboratory technician for an U.S. Army air reconnaissance battalion, collateral duties included flying backseat in an O-1 Bird Dog aircraft shooting air reconnaissance photography. I never got to Chu Lai but was at Da Nang on several occasions. I am sorry I can't give you a definitive answer to your question. I'm flattered that you would call on me to help. Cheers! Cuprum17 (talk) 23:35, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I've found some maps online of the base and it seems the base area covers the eastern side of peninsula with the air facility near the northern tip and around the air base. The air base seems to be connected with the base area at some point of time. The fighters used the long concrete runway and the Army helicopters used the old SATS area. Gavbadger (talk) 22:01, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CLXIV, December 2019
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