User talk:Cupsiscups

March 2017
Hello, I'm GiantSnowman. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Curtis Gonzales have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. GiantSnowman 15:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Information orange.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Willis Plaza. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. GiantSnowman 15:34, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

International infobox dates
Hi, when updating international infobox stats you should update the nationalteam-update or ntupdate parameter by adding five tildes, which generates the specific time the update was made. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 15:45, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * - that's just a minor issue, the main concern is that the stats are wrong. GiantSnowman 15:57, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Per? NFT have 87 caps. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:00, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * E.g. this - not accurate. GiantSnowman 16:03, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Confused, both of those are in sync with 20 caps? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Nope, he has 18 official caps, so 18 caps go in the infobox. GiantSnowman 16:13, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Since when were caps tiered into 'official' and (I presume) 'non-official'? I'm guessing you are referring to NFT's use of 'FIFA' and 'Non-FIFA' matches, which is a nonsense.  Gonzales played five matches in 2013, one of which NFT regard to be 'Non FIFA'.  If we look at the matches, Gonzales played twice against Jamaica, twice against Peru and once against Belize.  All of these teams are bona fide, official, FIFA-mandated national teams.  Why should we exclude one of these appearances because of NFT being awkward? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Because WP:NFOOTBALL makes that distinction, and playing in 'unofficial' games does not confer notability. Sticking with Gonzales, CFD has 19... GiantSnowman 16:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * So which matches are the non-FIFA ones, then? Also, what makes caribbeanfootballdatabase.com a WP:RS? Mattythewhite (talk) 16:58, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * "Don't know" to both of those questions. My point is that no sources support any of this editor's edits. GiantSnowman 17:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * You're genuinely telling me you're removing caps a player received from international matches contested between FIFA-affiliated teams, on the basis that one source *incorrectly* states that one team is 'Non FIFA'? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:47, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * We edit based on what the sources are telling us, and the only source related to caps is telling us he has 18. GiantSnowman 17:51, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Except for NFT, which lists all 20 bona fide, FIFA-mandated international matches. Pretty clear we're not getting anywhere here, so I'm opening a thread at WT:FOOTY. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * In the exact way that some sources show league and cup games, but we only include one in the infobox... GiantSnowman 18:12, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Quick question: how many international caps does Bobby Charlton have? Mattythewhite (talk) 18:26, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

NFT isn't 100% accurate for older players, so don't try that line of argument. GiantSnowman 18:45, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, my line of argument was that his 106 caps includes an appearance against a FIFA XI, which, as per RSSSF, "FIFA decided not to recognize the match on 23/10/1963 as full international, but the English FA kept it in the records". How do you reconcile this with WP:NFOOTBALL? Mattythewhite (talk) 18:57, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Well if FIFA have not awarded a cap for that game then it should not count, should it? GiantSnowman 19:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think it's as clear cut as that, and what football associations themselves list should be considered. They award the caps, after all.  Anyway, a discussion like this really needs more than just two heads banging against each other. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:32, 12 March 2017 (UTC)