User talk:Curtinho

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Landon Donovan
Judging by the tone of your edits to Landon Donovan, it's clear that you are not a fan of Donovan's. That's perfectly fine, but you shouldn't let your personal feelings about a subject influence your editing. Neutrality is a cornerstone of Wikipedia, and we all need to abide by it. Best, faithless   (speak)  04:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Here mate.


 * If you think what I wrote about Donovan was anything other than factual I suggest you check the sources I've just posted on the same page. This is the problem on here. When someone sees a ridiculously rosy article and thinks 'well that's not even half the truth', you're all over them with a bias accusation. Seriously, you haven't a clue.


 * Landon Donovan joined Bayer Leverkusen as a teenager and complained he was homesick when he wasn't getting a game, because he couldn't handle it like all teenagers that you work your way up. He begged them to send him home, and they arranged this for him for three whole years. A very kind thing to do considering they didn't sign him to send him back to America. He then played very well in the MLS, winning several MVP awards and I thought he had potential, while the US media fawned over him. Leverkusen called him back, and he went there.


 * When he arrived he said that Klaus Augenthaler told him he would play if he performed. Yet he made several appearances and played quite poorly, never looking like scoring, and hence not performing. But instead of being true to his word, he whined and complained about not playing to the point of it becoming a war of words with Augenthaler, who then gave him the best chance of all, a round of 16 tie against Liverpool. Unfortunately, Donovan was so bad that he comically missed chances for his team, destroyed his reputation and had the Guardian newspaper say it was the 'worst performance by a professional footballer I have ever seen'. Needless to say, he wanted to go back home and Leverkusen were more than happy to kick him out to the curb.


 * Back home again, he played well in what was clearly sub-standard opposition and piled up the goals against world beaters like Cuba, Ecuador, Panama and Grenada. Jurgen Klinsmann, known for his like of Americans (lives/lived there, American wife, American trainers hired for German national team and Bayern, brought Joseph Ngwenya in having liked him at Houston only to find he, too, wasn't good enough), signed Donovan on a short term loan as a short term solution, which is the only way the Bayern bosses would have it as they arranged for Ivica Olic's transfer in January. Donovan hoped to play well enough to stay, but he's been useless yet again, missing an easy chance against Hamburg and doing nothing over 65+ minutes against Berlin but miss yet another easy chance. As a result Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, Chairman of the club, said they wouldn't be extending his deal, as they already have Miro Klose, Luca Toni, Olic on his way in, and they would prefer a young striker was the fourth option (as per the link provided).


 * I may not like him, but everything said there is factual and sheds more light than 'he didn't play enough and wanted to go home so they let him' and 'he hopes to secure a deal'. Rant over :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtinho (talk • contribs) 05:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * For the record. Don't question my integrity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtinho (talk • contribs) 05:20, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * First, who "questioned your integrity?" Second, "Seriously, you haven't got a clue." is ridiculous on so many levels that I won't dignify it with a response, except to point out that I was as courteous as anyone could be when I messaged you, and you responded by attacking me. You would do well to keep this policy in mind. Now, assuming we both agree to move on...
 * Neutrality doesn't mean that what you write is true, or even sourced. Consider the following, for example: Barack Hussein Obama II was born to a father from a Muslim family and educated at a Muslim school in Indonesia (the world's largest Muslim country). He has a history of cocaine use, and has been linked to domestic terrorist William Ayers. All of that is absolutely true, and can be thoroughly sourced, but it doesn't even come close to being neutral. Yes, Donovan has been a complete bust in Europe (for the record, I don't care strongly for him either way). But his career in Germany is a mere footnote in his career overall. He has played the vast majority of his soccer in MLS and for the national team. Harping on and on about his failings in the Bundesliga gives undue weight to the topic. There simply isn't much to say aside from, "He went to Germany and he didn't hack it." Furthermore, phrases such as "he played terribly" and "Donovan was largely anonymous for the match except for missing what appeared to be an easy goal as Bayern lost the vital match 2-1." are you opinions, and completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia. You obviously don't like Donovan; that's great. Loads of people hate him. But while the article could use an expansion and a bit of detail, the tone of your writing is (again) completely inappropriate. If you find that you are unable to put aside your personal feelings, I'd recommend not editing the article. There are plenty of areas of Wikipedia I don't touch because I have strong opinions about them. To avoid putting myself in a situation where I might be tempted to push my own beliefs, I simply stay away from those articles. Instead, I watch articles where I don't have strong feelings (Landon Donovan, for instance). If you do continue to edit the article (which, of course, you're perfectly entitled to do), stick to the facts. faithless   (speak)  06:12, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

You questioned my integrity by claiming I was biased. While Bayern aren't my favourite team they're the team from the city my family is from so I do have an attachment to them, so I'm not out to attack the boy through wiki rage, which would be beyond the realm of 'sad'. I went on the article to check the years he was at Leverkusen out of curiosity, and saw that instead of even hinting that the boy flopped in Europe the page essentially gave us 'he fulfilled a promise to return to Leverkusen' (as if he had a choice in the matter, he was only on loan to the MLS) and 'played seven games only two of which were starts' and then wanted to go home because of lack of games. No mention of the drama that occurred at Leverkusen as a result of this. No mention of what was factually called a 'terrible performance' and 'the worst I have ever seen from a professional footballer' not from me, but from a relatively respected newspaper in England. So don't tell me that's my opinion when I specifically cited sources containing those quotes. If anything, the mere inclusion of this: "Donovan began to grow restless at the lack of games he featured in and continued to make public pleas to the manager, who in turn felt Donovan was not showing enough to merit a starting spot. However Donovan was given the chance in his only UEFA Champions League appearance to date, a round of 16 match against Liverpool FC. Donovan was substituted in the 53rd minute after a largely forgettable performance, and the following day Leverkusen and the player began to make arrangements for his return to MLS as requested." That's completely neutral and documents his appearance in the biggest club competition on the planet as well as a game against one of the most famous clubs on the planet. It also gives a brief but informative glance at the tension his situation created between him and the manager, especially in the press. Also, the Bayern information is very much warranted. He is trying to earn a permanent move and the club have officially come out and said he will likely not be given a permanent contract because they rate Klose, Toni and Olic ahead of Donovan and want the fourth striker to be someone younger, I cited that as well. If you want to ignore the performances thus far that's fine, but what in God's name is the bias in saying 'The Chairman of the club admitted that Donovan will likely not be granted a permanent deal because the team's administration rate the other strikers ahead of him'? I'm not biased, the article ignored major points in his career because he wasn't successful in them and concentrated solely on the good aspects in MLS and the national team which, quite frankly, fails to tell even half the story regarding Landon Donovan. His career has been defined not by the fact that he got a chance to play here but not there, but by the fact that he flopped there badly even when put on the biggest of stages and hasn't shaken that yet. If you think that leaving out a player's only Champions League appearance against one of the most famous, successful and richest clubs in the world and instead saying 'he only played 7 games, 2 of which were starts' isn't biased then that says it all about wikipedia.