User talk:Cyde/Archive006

GUIDELINES
 * No nonsense. If you're just going to substitute a silly template (e.g. WikiSmile), I'm just going to delete it.
 * No long sigs. You can use the following sig on my userpage: User:yourname
 * Keep discussions unfragmented. I will respond wherever the discussion started.

New talk page archive, new sig
I rather do like the light red. -- Cyde Weys 02:02, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought it indicated you had changed your frock before someone could take it away... :) David Oberst 03:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually no, someone did successfully defrock me of my teal frock ... luckily for me though I have a whole wardrobe of frocks, and the next in line happened to be light red. -- Cyde Weys  03:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

And hopefully this brand new sig will make the pseudonym just a tad more obvious. -- Cyde↔Weys 03:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:User EFF
You changed the above UserBox that was for wikipedians opposed to online censorship so that it meant something else. When I restored it, you reverted with the comment “(rv. - No statements of beliefs, find a better neutral way to state it.)”. How does that jibe with the overwhelming keep at Templates for deletion/userbox templates concerning beliefs and convictions? —MJBurrage 02:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with Tfd. I'm changing the wording, not trying to delete it.  -- Cyde Weys  02:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

But UserBoxes can contain beliefs and convictions, so what was wrong with this one? —MJBurrage 03:07, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, no they can't. At least templates can't.  If they are just code on a userpage we can't stop you (hint: substitute your boxen).  -- Cyde Weys  03:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Forgive my ignorance, when/where was that decided? I thought the result of the last round of UserBox deletion/reverts was that they were ok, since they are only used on user pages. —MJBurrage 03:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * WP:CSD. And things change over time ... you can't always just refer back to the previous decision (otherwise women still wouldn't be able to vote and black people would be slaves).  And "only being used on userpages" is irrelevant because we're talking about templates, which are quite different than just text on a userpage.  For one, templated userboxes support "What links here" as a vote-stacking opportunity.  -- Cyde↔Weys  03:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Right above that it says "Additionally, the second criterion is disputed by many users and may not reflect consensus." —MJBurrage 04:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Re : Closing tfds
Got it. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 02:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Concern
I'm concerned of all the userboxes being deleted en masse tonight, as stated in the emails you've kept sending me.... i thought this page might be relevant: WP:POINT. Cheers and good luck with your edits, my friend. and if you're curious as to my signature, i'm in the process of de-imaging it.  User:Raccoon Fox - Talk  03:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Uhhh?? "Emails I've kept sending you"? I don't think so. -- Cyde↔Weys 03:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah....can i share them? they come from your email address.  User:Raccoon Fox - Talk 03:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't share the one about when it's going down (that's secret info). Share the rest, because I haven't sent anything else.  -- Cyde↔Weys  03:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Very well. :)  User:Raccoon Fox - Talk 03:50, 19 May 2006 (UTC)




|









-- Avillia (Avillia me!) 04:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 -- Cyde↔Weys  05:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)



 -  Corbin  Be excellent  05:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Indian freedom fighters
Hi - why did you delete Category:Indian freedom fighters? Rama&#39;s Arrow 05:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion at WP:CFD .. it was moved to Category:Indian revolutionaries. -- Cyde↔Weys 05:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Nonsensical reversions.
Please don't leave ridiculous canned responses on my talk page when I am contributing. What I took out of that serious article was obviously a joke left by people still amused by Sony's E3 showing. I am still not sure what "appropriate" content I can replace joke content with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.167.143.22 (talk • contribs)

You might want to get an account so communication is easier. -- Cyde↔Weys 05:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Your concerns on my RfA
Thanks for taking the time to comment on my RfA. I've addressed Cuivienen's concerns on the page (and he's since changed his vote), so I thought you might like to know; I've also left a lot of responses to others' concerns, which have gone largely unanswered. Please, would you be so kind to comment on anything specific I need to address? dewet|✉ 06:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Citation tool v. ref converter on idea
I haven't yet asked lulu, but I thought that since many articles with ref also have these styling issues, it would be useful if they could be fixed at the same time. I have taken a quick peak at the thing and I'm frankly not sure how that could be implemented. It's not exactly the easiest to use, IMHO. Circeus 14:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright I'll look into it. Can you give me some more specific information on exactly what you want changed? (This will make implementation easier) Basically you want to remove all spaces between multiple ref groups as well as the close of a ref group and a period or other punctuation, correct? -- Cyde↔Weys 14:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * All spaces before any refs would be stripped (eg, replace " " with " ", sometimes these are entities, which should probably be taken in account)
 * Any combination of a +a comma, period, semicolon, colon or quote should be moved to after the punctuation mark.
 * Thanks for considering the suggestion! Circeus 03:26, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

And a typical example of what this would be awesomely helpful to correct: (think the same on a 3-pages long article now) Circeus 03:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

NO
This is a fair warning that you are not going to succedd in demolishing so many userboxes. G eneral    E  i  senhower  21:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Uhoh Cyde; people are coming back from the dead to oppose you! /me quivers in fear .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 21:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

That means you
User:BigDT, if you haven't seen it already. When are you gonna get it, Cyde? TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ckhelp! 21:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I do get it. Evidently he didn't. -- Cyde↔Weys  21:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

"Get it" as in realize that you're hurting Wikipedia more than you're helping it. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ckhelp! 21:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

When will the MySpacers who are trying to turn a free encyclopedia into something that it is not realize that they are hurting Wikipedia more than they are helping it? -- Cyde↔Weys 21:33, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a question about this statment. An encyclopedia is made up of articles. How does any content on a non article page hurt the encyclopedia? DanielZimmerman 22:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well here's a really obvious one ... if the non-article page is a vandal's association and they give each other awards and pats on the back for vandalizing articles. As for less obvious ways, how about if the non-encyclopedic content is designed to further or promote a particular POV or bias.  -- Cyde↔Weys  01:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Vandalism is against the rules. Vandals do not need wikipedia if they want to coordinate efforts. Bias and POV in articles are also not allowed. The coordination you so fear is what actually makes wikipedia great. Not the misuse of the coordination, but the actual spirit of coordination and cooperation that wikipedia was founded on. Open source projects benefit when people who are familiar or interested in similar areas of research can find each other and discuss issues. However, instead of allowing people to form "groups" on wikipedia, we have people who are fighting those groups while there are other pressing issues to be dealt with (like actually dealing with the articles). DanielZimmerman 03:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but as an admin you should certainly not be using a "two wrongs make a right" argument. The way to address the MySpace problem is to first start thinking sensibly and objectively yourself, and then to help others do so, without coming across as a hypocrite. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ckhelp! 21:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not using the "two wrongs make a right" argument. -- Cyde↔Weys 21:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well then, please respond to my claim that "you're hurting Wikipedia more than you're helping it," instead of pointing at the MySpacers. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ckhelp! 21:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Campaign
Say, I was wondering, Cyde. I recall you promising up and down during your campaign for adminship that you were through with touching userboxes. What's the story on that? Just wondering what your side of that is, since as it is, it looks pretty damning. D. G. 07:18, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, do I know you? -- Cyde Weys 08:29, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Er. No you don't; I don't believe we've directly interacted before, if that's what you mean. That's not the point. Do you not wish to disclose an answer to my query? D. G. 21:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I've already answered this, read further up on this page. -- Cyde Weys 00:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I already have read through this page, and that isn't true. The closest I can find is a statement to the effect that you will follow through on your word and stop involving yourself with userboxes after all of your goals with respect to them are met. This isn't a question to the answer, it's a restatement of the question. I would not have wasted your and my time posting this question for your consideration if an answer were not already available for my consumption. Thank you, Cyde. D. G. 02:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this question to you seems to have come right before you did an archive of your talk page, so it was lost there. I've copied it here and my question stands as before. Thank you, Cyde. D. G. 21:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm getting rather sick of assumptions of bad faith. Every single time when I've archived my talk page, without fail, someone has accused me of doing it to cover something up. -- Cyde↔Weys 21:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Um... The only bad faith assumption I see here is yours. DG just pointed out that the question had been lost in the archival. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ckhelp! 21:42, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The tone of his message makes it quite clear what he meant. And please, for the love of God, can you fix your sig?!  -- Cyde↔Weys  21:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe you're both ABF'ing. By "fix," do you mean shorten? I'm about to transition to a new username, so I'm not gonna change it yet, except to remove the help part from the end. TheJ a  bb  e  rw  ʘ  ck 21:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do mean shorten. It's three lines long in my edit window ... it tends to overwhelm comments.  Cutting out the various unnecessary font formatting would help reduce its size a bit.  Look at my sig: it's just as colorful as yours, but it does it all inside of a single tag.  -- Cyde↔Weys  21:50, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * As requested: not as short as yours, but not too bad either.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  04:27, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

You still don't seem to have answered the original question. CelestialRender 01:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

For the record, I wasn't implying that the archival had been done intentionally. The sentence would likely have been inverted, I think, were that the case ("You archived right after I made my question to you" rather than "I made my question to you right before you archived"). I'm sorry if this tends to happen to you a lot, but it's to be expected (by both you and me) and you should be used to it, seeing as you are someone with a high-traffic talk page. With so much talk, there is bound to be something going on anytime that you archive. As for "tone," we all know about the effectiveness of reading tone on the Internet. Retroactive pardon for any misunderstanding, then. Anyway, wonderful little thread of conversation here going (I might add that yes, that 3 line signature is obnoxious!), but I am still waiting for an answer to my original query... Thank you again, Cyde. D. G. 22:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!
I'm an idiot! :) Will do! Xoloz 21:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Userbox TfD's
An editor has asked for deletion review of Template:User hate. Since you closed the deletion discussion about (or speedy-deleted) this page, your opinions on this will be greatly appreciated. --Ssbohio 23:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, copied from your archive...

Userboxbot
FYI, I've made an objection to your bot request. I want to approach you here and ask you to reconsider using TfD or T1 to remove userboxes one-by-one. Your side of the userbox debate is valid and may, in the end, be the consensus opinion, but using TfD or speedy on each userbox seperately forces the same arguments to be repeated ad nauseum. Let's get consensus on the whole thing instead.

On a related note, please don't subst any userboxes off my userpage. I'd rather have the redlink there to show what's been removed in what I perceive to be an attempt to stifle my identity on my userpage. Similarly, your comment on my Talk page is unclear: were you being funny or making fun? Rest assured, I found it funny, it's just that reading some of what others had to say, I'm not sure of its intent. Anyway, thanks for all the positive work you've done here, and I look forward to the days when people ask us if we remember the userbox wars... --Ssbohio 01:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes: A New Proposal
Cyde, as you are the author of a proposal yourself, I invite you to read my essay on what should be done with the matter. Hopefully this essay (which tries to achieve a middle ground between the two sides) will become a proposal to attempt to change WP policy- because this debate is hurting Wikipedia and dividing the userbase too much. I would hope you could read my essay and comment, both on how to improve it and on how to make it into a proposal to vote to vote. Thanks! // The  True  <sub style="color:blue;">Sora  00:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry I freaked out at you. Please don't hurt me or my family.Cameron Nedland 01:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Userbox deletion
Hello there! An incident at the administrator's noticeboard here has been brought up in a topic that you are heavily involved in: userboxes. Your input is requested and would be valuable. Thanks! Cowman109<sup style="color:darkgreen;">Talk 01:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

A present
Here's a tasteful reward for your great work in the area of userboxes. Christopher Parham (talk) 02:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I love getting these things sarcastically :-P  Cyde↔Weys  10:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Moved from User talk:BigDT

 * Sorry to see you go. Unfortunately a small number of newer admins were given powers we now know they shouldn't have receieved. Hopefully we'll be able to get them desysoped in the near future so you can return. JohnnyBGood  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]]  t   c  21:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You honestly think it's the "newer" admins who you are running afoul of? Ahahaha!  -- Cyde↔Weys  21:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Am I not mistaken when I say you and Tony are new? You're the only ones I've really had any issues with. And the fact you would respond like you did just now in such a petulant manner only belies the underlying problem with you being an admin. JohnnyBGood  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]]  t   c  21:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, just wow. You think Tony is new?!  -- Cyde↔Weys  10:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Your Userpage
Cyde, we here at this site are trying to write an encycolpedia, I suggest you delete the nonsense from your user page and make it as boring as you want the rest of this site to be. The picture of the fish is unencycolepidic, there is no double standard for you on this site. Quit acting like you are above everyone else and fix your user page.-- GorillazFan  Adam  04:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you don't understand the meta-critique aspect of the poisson. -- Cyde↔Weys 10:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Cydebot
As per your offer, please have your bot subst and delete the following :


 * Template:User Dingbat
 * Template:User MrDucky2
 * Template:User MrDucky3
 * Template:User Alien
 * Template:User alien

Thanks in advance. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 08:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. In the future you can just give me a space delimited list such as "User Dingbat" "User MrDucky2" "User MrDucky3" "User Alien" "User alien" -- Cyde↔Weys  11:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Subst
When using template tags on talk pages, don't forget to substitute with text by adding subst: to the template tag. For example, use &#123;&#123;subst:test&#125;&#125; instead of &#123;{test}}. This reduces server load and prevents accidental blanking of the template. -- Cyde↔Weys 11:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Roger, thanks for that. :D Jachin 12:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I realize it can be inferred to be opinion because it's on a user talk page, but in the interest of full disclosure, I'll mention that this is Cyde's opinion of how things should be, not a statement of policy. Subst'ing userboxes has not (to my knowledge) become policy, and, what with Cyde being an admin, I could easily see his opinion being confused with policy.--Ssbohio 05:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

What's the point, really?
Cyde, you're becoming quite a star, aren't you? It appears that every third section on WP:ANI has your name at the top. I've sank the boot into you a few times there, but I don't think that I've ever tried to have a nice friendly chat with you here. Which makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

So, if I asked you nicely to just down tools on the usebox thing, would you do it? Looking at Template:User chav for instance, what exactly is it that you thought would happen? Almost no one who took part in the TfD is going to be pleased, that's for sure. Wikipedia only works if we have happy productive editors. Sometimes some members need shepherding, this is true. The culture here can be quite complex, and at times self contradictory. If the way things work (both real and ideal) needs explained, it's a good thing if more experianced editors take the time to do so.

Because that's all that admins are is editors who have demonstrated (in some small way) that they understand the way things work. We're not cops, or schoolteachers, or anyone's mum. We don't have any authority, just access to a few extra tabs and buttons.

I'd ask you to think carefully about the longer term results of your actions. I'd ask you to think carefully about whom it is that you are receiving support from. I'd ask you to wonder, just for a moment, why a broader base of administrators is not "leading the charge" in the manner that you are. I also note that you appear not to be engaging the editors above who are asking you to reconcile your earlier statements with your current actions. When it starts to get hard to defend the things that you're doing, when "go away" is easier than dialog, there is usually a reason.

brenneman {L}  12:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The whole part about "down tools on the userbox thing" is predicated on a false reading of what actually happened to those Chav templates. I just closed the TfD after the templates had already been deleted (which is what usually happens). -- Cyde↔Weys 12:13, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I knew that, but do I even need to point out that by playing tag-team with Tony you're hardly walking with the angels? What do we usually do when someone deletes something while an XfD is going on and they haven't taken part?  We leave them a nice note saying "you might have missed that...", we restore the page, we let the discussion go on.  Please don't try to wash your hand in that manner.
 * When I see you saying things like "as that lets the MySpacers win" I despair. Here's a giant bloody clue that you're missing: You don't own Wikipedia.  I don't own wikipedia.  Wikipedia is not a battle ground.  You are never ever going to get a stable solution with the methods that you are using.
 * brenneman {L}  12:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll admit, I don't know much about your past history with Tony, but I really don't appreciate you lashing out at me because you perceive me to be his "ally" or something. And here's a giant bloody clue that you're missing: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia.  -- Cyde↔Weys  13:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A few things I could have stated better there, too true.
 * Please don't wave away my objections based on "Oh, It's just Aaron's Tony thing." That's facile, and serves only as an excuse to ignore.  My point was, just going on the numbers, having Tony's support is somewhat cold comfort.  That comes from a straight reading of ANI, and requires no knowlede of the past.
 * Again, poorly said with the "giant clue" and all. The point is Cyde, who's writing the encyclopedia?  Who's maintaining it?  I mean the day to day maintenance, not the boot-polish on the top that admins do.  You going to take care of a million articles on your own?
 * If admins don't tread lightly, the encyclopedia suffers. We don't make this place run, we're not captains of this ship.  We aren't even running the engine room.  We're janitors.
 * brenneman {L}  13:54, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Amen to all three points. You're right about the userboxes, but your methods are hurting Wikipedia. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Can I get a clarification on that please? What methods have I been using and how "badly" has each of them been hurting Wikipedia?  Or can it not be broken down like that?  If there's one "method" you can help me identify that isn't helping much but is causing lots of friction, I'll consider dropping that method.  -- Cyde↔Weys  02:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I suppose I was a bit vague there. I have no idea how much your blocks that have been popping up an AN/I have to do with userboxen, but an easy harmful behavior to identify is blocking without warning.  That hurts Wikipedia.  I can explain how, if necessary.
 * More directly related to userboxes, but less concrete perhaps, I'd say you're contributing to polarization of the issue, by casting the issue as "Encyclopedists" "versus" "MySpacers". It doesn't have to be a fight.  I see it as an ideal that you and I and many others share, which hasn't been properly communicated to many others.  That communication isn't best effected by framing the issue in terms of "sides".  I think there's a strong need to answer the arguments coming up at Wikipedia talk:Mackensen's Proposal, because individuals convincing individuals is one way that ideals get communicated.
 * I guess everything I'm bringing up is about communication, and how important it is here to temper our boldness with an extreme willingness to dialogue, explain and listen.
 * Speaking of which... at some point, I'm not too comfortable discussing your "methods" (good use of scarequotes there), unless we compare notes about just what you're doing, and hoping to accomplish thereby. That's essentially the question I'm getting at three sections down, too.  What's the best strategy for people like us, who see the harm in userboxes and want to do something about it?  Let's work together. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

AWB
Hey, I think it says any admin can check and add you to the page, so would you please have a look at Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage and add me to the list? ps. I have copied your talk page layout (maybe temporarily), hope you don't mind! -- - K a s h  Talk 15:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Against
I do not want to be uncivil or anything but please do not nominate more templates for deletion. G eneral   E  i  senhower   Esc   Shift  16:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I concur. I was hoping we could discuss this the last time I left a message here.  Since we couldn't, please accept this as my strong suggestion that this spate of userbox deletionism be held in abeyance until a consensus has been reached on the question of userboxes.--Ssbohio 19:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Another thing to think about: If a new namespace is created with the same rules as user space, nearly all of the deletions will most likely be undone, and you'll have wasted untold hours for nothing.  Λυδ α  cιτγ (TheJabberwock) 00:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Please come down, Cyde
Cyde, without getting into the particulars of brenneman's section above, with which I'm not intimately familiar, I'd like to echo his main point: Please be move civil. Please be a better example. You're being too strident with the aministrative buttons.

Please, for the sake of decency, warn people before you block them. It's easy to do, and it makes it better. If you don't believe me, just try it.

Your actions, like all of ours, help to set the tone around here. For some reason, you've seen fit to set a combative tone lately. Please stop. You're generating much more heat and static than is necessary or desirable. Let's see a "kinder, gentler" Cyde, and let's marvel at how much more effective he is without that train of controversy dragging behind him. Come down off the warpath; it's okay.

Regarding the userboxes... I'm formulating a response to Jay Maynard from that one page. I think you're pushing too hard, in the sense of generating heat and static through an essentially brute-force approach. Apparently you agree with Jimbo's ideal regarding the actual userboxes, but disagree with him 100% on how the change should be made. Would you say that's accurate? -GTBacchus(talk) 20:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Cyde, do you remember what I wrote back in March? David D. (Talk) 21:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Cyde, why not stick to your Rfa promise of stepping away from the userboxes? I think it'll help smooth things over a lot. Please take this from somebody who is trying to help you out here. --D-Day(Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?) 21:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with GTBacchus. --Strothra 21:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

At this point the "train of controversy" isn't even largely my fault. You seen ANI lately? Any admin action I do is being questioned for ridiculous reasons. I block a troll? Boom, controversy. I delete a troll's userpage? Controversy! I delete vandalism that happens to start with Template:User? Controversy! I block users for all-around incivility and personal attacks? I must be desysopped! You see where I'm going with this? It cuts both way. I give as a I get. And when I get all sorts of friction for doing things that are actually good and helpful, that's not productive. So can we all please be reasonable? -- Cyde↔Weys 02:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Cyde, Please note that I'm not calling for you to be desysoped, and I hope I'm being reasonable. I think you do great work here, for the most part.  You still haven't explained why you're above warning before you block, or what you're doing on the warpath.  "I give as I get" is a pretty sorry excuse; what does that even mean, in this case?  What if everyone played that way?  Why not give better than you get?


 * Also, whether or not the static around you is your "fault" (a word I tend to eschew as meaningless), you're the person whose actions you control, and who must decide what the best way is to handle the situation. Is "I give as I get" really the best strategy you can come up with for putting out fires?


 * On userboxen, I still ask, is it accurate to say you disagree with Jimbo about how userboxes are to be dealt with? I'm referring to changing the culture one person at a time, as opposed to mass deletions?  Do you consider that approach to have already failed?  Or does it just need to be supplemented by pissing a lot of people off?  As I'm asking above (maybe there's a way to merge threads) just what is the userbox strategy here?  Is part of it just to delete them, by any means necessary, as many times as necessary, until it sticks?  That strikes me as... inelegant, at best, and at worst, directly counterproductive.  I may be wrong; what do you think?  -GTBacchus(talk) 05:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Speedy deletion decisions
Can you please explain the reasoning behind your Speedy Deletions of "Template:User chav" and "Template:User notchav"? The consensus on the TfD in both cases was clearly Keep. Bastun 23:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't delete either of them. Please check the actual deletion logs before accusing me of something that I did not do. -- Cyde↔Weys 01:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * In my case, I made the error of taking the deletion note left in TfD as complete. Perhaps that's what happened here, as well.  It makes more sense now that I've seen the deletion log.  While checking the logs will clearly identify these issues, would creating a more accurate or complete deletion note be a reasonable request?--Ssbohio 05:19, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Yep, same here. Apologies, Cyde.  But I'd also echo SSbohio's request for a more accurate/complete note on the TfD discussions. Bastun 08:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

The closed result of those TfD's is now attracting anon vandals. Maybe you could now change the closure notice from the inaccurate "The result of the debate was Deleted" (which it wasn't) to "Debate closed as Template was deleted by [whomever/creator]"? Bastun 09:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

User space proposal
Yo. Um, excuse me if I sound rude (I sincerely am not trying to) but I'm too tired to dance around the point and talk with perfect diplomacy. You are, in my eyes, one of the more down-to-earth, no-nonsense, Internet-is-serious-business administrators, but you haven't been corrupted (yet) and still maintain a decent amount of sanity. Most importantly, you're a person that can stay civil and I can still talk to about nearly anything without excessive rhetoric or incivility. Would you mind commenting on my proposed amendments to the user page policy at User:CorbinSimpson/User space? I'm trying to come up with something that will solve the userbox issues, as well as establish some solid rules (after all, WP:USER is still only a guideline), and your input is quite valuable to me. Thanks. -  Corbin  <sup style="color:#009933;">Be excellent  00:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)`

Moratoriam
Would you support a double moratoriam on userbox creations and deletions, as you indicated at Wikipedia_talk:Templates_for_deletion?  Λυδ α  cιτγ (TheJabberwock) 01:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Please stop using the term "MySpacer"
I read the list of comments you posted about userboxes. I understand the viewpoint, but do not agree with it, as I've outlined in comments on WP:MACK and Userbox policy.

Please stop using the term "MySpacer" to refer to those of us who do not want to see userboxes done away with. I consider it a thinly veiled personal attack, as it carries with it connotations of frivolity and immaturity. I'm just as much here to build an encyclopedia as you are, and I wish you'd assume good faith on the part of the folks on the other side of the debate. Jay Maynard 01:33, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't realize it had such negative connotations. Isn't MySpace a huge social networking site? I think it has over ten million users or something (and a lot of my friends use it). Also, I haven't been calling all "pro-userbox" people MySpacers, just the ones who really aren't contributing to the encyclopedia. But in the interests of general civility I'll stop using the term. Incidentally, do you have something better I could be calling these people? -- Cyde↔Weys 01:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not what you say, it is how you are saying it. You could refer to them as people who have a difference of opinion on what portions of wikipedia should be required to be encyclopedic. For example, I believe that only items that will be on the actual article pages should have encyclopedic properties. Discussions of those pages, user pages, etc should never even have discussions about their being encyclopedic. DanielZimmerman 19:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

MySpace is a huge social networkign site whose demographics are severely skewed toward the high school age group. Further, users' pages on there are miasmas of huge animated graphics, movies, and sound files, complete with content-free comments from all of their friends. I don't know of anyone advocating that Wikipedia user pages should become that; I certainly am not. Replacement term? I'm not sure there is one. (And I'm not sure there's one to apply to those who believe userboxes are bad for Wikipedia and should be deleted, either.) In any case, thanks for not using "MySpacer". Jay Maynard 02:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

RFAR
This is to inform you that you have been placed into a section on WP:RFAR. Thank you. -- Porphyric Hemophiliac  §  01:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, but I don't feel like it's necessary for me to participate at this time. My involvement was largely incidental ... many other admins would've stepped up to temporarily block Merecat upon catching the massive talk page spamming, I just happened to be the first to see it. Merecat ended up being blocked indefinitely by another admin for something else, so I feel like my actions were justified. -- Cyde↔Weys 01:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Erm... This isn't about Merecat. You got a RfAr all to yourself! -- Avillia (Avillia me!) 02:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No offense to anyone, but this sockpuppetry allegation is fucking ridiculous. -- Cyde↔Weys  02:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

VandalProof 1.2 Now Available
<div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: ;"> After a lenghty, but much-needed Wikibreak, I'm happy to announce that version 1.2 of VandalProof is now available for download! Beyond fixing some of the most obnoxious bugs, like the persistent crash on start-up that many have experienced, version 1.2 also offers a wide variety of new features, including a stub-sorter, a global user whitelist and blacklist, navigational controls, and greater customization. You can find a full list of the new features here. While I believe this release to be a significant improvement over the last, it's nonetheless nowhere near the end of the line for VandalProof. Thanks to Rob Church, I now have an account on test.wikipedia.org with SysOp rights and have already been hard at work incorporating administrative tools into VandalProof, which I plan to make available in the near future. An example of one such SysOp tool that I'm working on incorporating is my simple history merge tool, which simplifies the process of performing history merges from one article into another. Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to download and install version 1.2 and take it out for a test-drive. As always, your suggestions for improvement are always appreciated, and I hope that you will find this new version useful. Happy editing! --AmiDaniel (talk) 02:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Sylviidae deletion review
An editor has nominated the closure or deletion of the article Category:Sylviidae for deletion review. Since you closed the deletion discussion for, or speedy-deleted this article, your opinions on this will be greatly appreciated. Ardric47 03:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

.sig
Hello, you've created an annoying sig that doesn't result in reams of code! I guess that's a Good Thing, or something. Obviously I won't be asking you to change it (it's veery small), but could you please consider removing the bloody cursor change thing? It's one of my Pet Hates off-Wikipedia, so, for me, it's even less welcome here. What do you say? fuddlemark (befuddle me!) 06:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with the cydeweys cursor? :-(  Cyde↔Weys  17:18, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I afraid I have to second fuddlemark's comment on the cursor, it really reminds me of MySpace. Please kindly reconsider. - Mailer Diablo 06:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I know I'm just being contrary now, and although I normally agree with everything that these two say... do we really care about a cursor? This may in fact simply me trying to build a wall against having to change my signature, but I really do think we've all got better things to worry about.  I mean, how often do you actually hover over someone's sig, especially someone whom you're familiar with? User:Aaron Brenneman 07:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ditto. What are we coming to when 'sig policing' reaches such a state? BTW, all four of you are in violation of the sig policy stated at the top of this page. :] User:yourname 11:07, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I hover all the time because I use popups. Hovering gets the popup to appear so I can go to contribs, blocklogs, whatever else... User:Lar 12:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I use Popups too, and changing the sig hover icon doesn't affect Popups' functionality one bit. -- Cyde↔Weys  23:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't like the cursor:'s either, but I threw  in my usercontent.css so I don't really care what you do. User:kotepho 12:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I propose we create WP:CCfD Cursor Changes for Deletion... That way we can debate it until someone steps in regardless of consensus.  :-) --Ssbohio 22:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

spamming
is spamming users to get them to vote in a WP:TfD vote. It isn't his first game playing with templates. You might want to take a look at it. Jtdirl 09:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

AOL/Blocking
Re: your suggestion for downloading Foxfire -- please note that anything I download and any sites I have to register with must be approved by my employer first. This process is not hard, and I've never been denied access to anything, but it is time consuming. However, since they pay for and insist on my using AOL (or a cable company not available in my area), I doubt they will let me download Foxfire. Best wishes. WBardwin 18:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Uh, do you mean Firefox? I'm not really aware of any Foxfire ... -- Cyde↔Weys 23:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

"Silly templates"
''No nonsense. If you're just going to substitute a silly template (e.g. WikiSmile), I'm just going to delete it.''

We are the Borg. Lower your shields and power down your weapons. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Wikismiles are irrelevent. Wikilove is irrelevent. You will be assimilated. Resistence is futile. 70.88.158.93 19:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Frown
Since you don't like WikiSmiles...

<div style="float:center;border-style:solid;border-color:blue;background-color:AliceBlue;border-width:1px;text-align:left;padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

 Λυδ α  cιτγ (TheJabberwock) has frowned at you! Frowns promote WikiHate and hopefully this one has made your day worse. Spread the WikiHate by frowning to someone else, whether it be someone you have had agreements with in the past or a bad enemy. Frown to others by adding {{subst:frown}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!  Λυδ α  cιτγ (TheJabberwock) 21:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this has the encyclopedic purpose of warning you that this template has been recreated by SPUI. I just couldn't resist giving you a copy of it at the same time.  Λυδ α  cιτγ (TheJabberwock) 21:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Recommendation
Hey Cyde. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think a lot of your administrative actions are winding people up. Speedying pages that don't technically meet the speedy deletion criteria, blocking people when you're involved in a conflict with them, and getting into arguments, while it may often be the right thing to do to expedite matters, is working against you. I don't think the current RFAR against you will stick, but as someone who supported your RFA and thinks you're a generally good guy, I want to let you know that this is near to a last call to change your outlook and actions, before it's too late. I also second Mindspillage's recommendation to stay clear of userboxes. Take care. Stifle (talk) 23:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

"Blocking people when you're involved in a conflict with them" &mdash; I keep hearing people repeat this, as if repeating it often enough is going to make it true. What's actually going on is that the blocked people are pissed off and they (rightfully) perceive as if they can get off more easily if they make it look like it's an improper block. And how to do that? Make it seem like I'm evil and vengeful and I'm blocking people based on some personal vendetta! Do the research, though, and you'll see that the situation is a lot different than how they are portraying it. So stop listening to the side of the story as presented on ANI and RFC by the various trolls and vandals I've come across in my admin duties. Admins often tend to seem unpopular because they get involved in lots of messes, and the people they've used admin actions on are pissed. -- Cyde↔Weys 00:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I think you misunderstand your RfC. I don't think, that you blocked anyone based on a personal vendetta, and I am not pissed at all. You don't worry about religious sensitivities and stated so many times on the talk pages. Other editors do care about that. I've got no problem with that so far, as long as you don't block those editors (for "Censorship"?!?) because you disagree with them. This is a clear WP:BP breach and you should know that. Raphael1 00:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Except that the blocking was for continued reversions against a clear and established consensus. You and I both know that this is little better than simple vandalism. And you're right, maybe I should've just stuck to using "Vandalism" as the block message, because that is what I was blocking for. -- Cyde↔Weys 00:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

personal attacks
I will think about it. MegaloManiac 14:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Odd
I could have sworn I just left a message here but it seems to have gone bye bye. Oh well. Netscott 16:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not in the history (nor in the deleted edits history, though I don't know why it would go there), so ... I guess you just didn't really save it :-(  Cyde↔Weys  17:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh there's that comment I left for "you". lol... you were added to a list by Raphael1 but it has since been deleted by Zoe. Netscott 18:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks, I was already aware of that list as it was something utterly inappropriate for Wikipedia. Good thing Zoe dealt with it.  -- Cyde↔Weys  18:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

CAUBXD
Fine, have it your way. Though you're not really helping yourself. Oh, and I whipped up this notice, the top of your talk page helped; ''No nonsense. If you're just going to act silly, you'll just be ignored.'' I'm not being argumentative or anything, but you're acting very childish. Master of Puppets That's hot. 18:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL -- Cyde↔Weys  18:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Another one for you :-)
<div style="float: left; border:solid 1px; margin: 1px;">

Giant crab
Thank you for protecting the Japanese spider crab article. Yamaguchi先生 22:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for May 22nd.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list.

BMW article, semi protect?
Hi. I noticed the BMW article has recently been vandalised on several occasions mostly by unregistered users. I also posted on the discussion page about this. I realised only admins can enforce semi-protection so at the moment the article is not really protected, only having the template. Would it be possible to enable it? YCCHAN 06:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Still need an answer to that. YCCHAN 21:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

In the future please provide an actual link to the article in question. Thanks. -- Cyde↔Weys 21:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoops sorry about that. lol YCCHAN 21:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Resid, again
Greetings Cyde, being that you were the admin that originally permanently blocked User:Rgulerdem, this RFCU filed by User:Azate should be of interest to you. Netscott 10:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Can we please carry on with proper procedure and the RFCU? Otherwise people will complain on all corners about the block, drown everbody in petitions, and eventually sombody will unblock rgulerdem again. You realize that there is a sect behind this, not unlike scientology? That this his is not just some kiddie puppeting case? Have you ever wondered why a Google search for "Fethullah Gulen" returns three quartes of a million hits, almost all English ones by some branch of the sect itself? These people try to promote Gülen to somebody along the lines of Martin Luther King and Mother Theresa in the the public eye, and thery will fight teeth & claws about the pureness of his article. Things like this will happen again and again on this article. and this case needs to be a proper proceduaral precedence, not a from-the-hip undef blocking by you, among all people (with your "rogue" image and all that), self-evident as that block may appear to you (and me). Azate 19:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well you're certainly not helping. A block is a block, I don't care who it is.  This one is deserved.  -- Cyde↔Weys  19:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Cyde, please forgive me, but I have gone ahead and unblocked Resid. My past history with him is less than desirable, but until we get solid checkuser evidence please do not use confirmed sockpuppetry as a reason to block. CU has not yet returned a response, so I'd like to ask that you please wait for the results. NSL E (T+C) at 00:39 UTC (2006-05-24)

Argh, I misread the CheckUser evidence. We shall wait then. -- Cyde↔Weys 00:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Cheers, mate. NSL E (T+C) at 01:00 UTC (2006-05-24)


 * By the way... the other two accounts you blocked. I'm pondering unblocking them, but because they're also accused meatpuppets to me this gets a bit trickier, and shall defer judgement to the blocking admin, i.e. you. NSL E (T+C) at 01:06 UTC (2006-05-24)


 * Meh, they could use a short block for disruptiveness anyway. Let's wait 24 hours ... if the CheckUser evidence is negative then I'll unblock them.  -- Cyde↔Weys  01:13, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Cyde, I've commented over on NSLE's talk page about his unblocking of Resid. Perhaps you could join the discussion there? Thanks. Netscott 15:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

RFCU has confirmed User:Rgulerdem to be the puppeteer of User:Mokotok and User:Light&Truth. What's next? Straight block or a AI or what? The inner works op WP are not my strong suit.Azate 23:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info about Resid. I'm sorry I wasn't able to be more help to him, but he just clearly isn't able to fit in. Johntex\talk 01:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Greetings Cyde, could you take a look at this 3RR report filed by User:Irishpunktom related to the whole Resid Gulerdem Fethullah Gülen blocking fiasco? Thanks. Netscott 17:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your commentary on that report Cyde. I just noticed it due to the fact that I had provided you a wikilink that went to a previous (and also unfounded) 3RR report. Netscott 09:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

...
Alright, I'm sorry.

The Ronin 21:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Opinion on username NetFlixFraud
User:NetFlixFraud has been repeatedly inserting some POV commentary in the Netflix article, and so far has not responded to requests for discussion. I've reverted twice again today with no luck. I'll see what happens later, but for now I'd like to get a couple of opinions on whether the username is enough of a violation of WP:USERNAME to matter ("a username should not be used to defame other people, companies or groups")? Thanks. - David Oberst 01:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Block conflict
I always do, a second before I do the actual block. I think we blocked the same person too closely together in this case, because I refreshed the log immediately before. -→ Buchanan-Hermit ™ /<font color="darkgreen" size="1">!?  06:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Couple of things...
First in this: Requests_for_adminship/Robchurch_4 "# Support per support by all of the right people and oppose by all of the right people. --Cyde↔Weys 06:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)"... I thought I was on the "oppose by all the right people" list??!!?? Second with respect to User:Dragon695's user page, which you protected... that user has been asking folk to consider an unprotect. I looked in the history and I support forced removal of some of the stuff present there because, well, it was rather "poopy", to say the least. Would you consider an unprotect if the user indicated understanding of what's not OK and undertook not to do it again? I'm not a big fan of undoing other admin's actions without talking to them first. Thoughts? (you can reply here, this page has been on my watchlist since forever) + + Lar: t/c 14:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Cyde, is there a better way to get you to answer questions or respond than to leave info on your talk page? I am quite interested in an answer to the second question I asked... if you choose not to answer I'm probably going to unprotect the page.  + + Lar: t/c 19:57, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I've unprotected the page, hopefully he will make better use of it this time. And you aren't the "wrong people" ... stop having such a negative opinion about yourself. Maybe we disagree about userboxes or something silly, but we both at least work on the encyclopedia. It's other people I have the problem with ... Cyde↔Weys 20:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha, having a negative opinion of myself is the least of my worries! :) It's your opinion of me (high horsed/holier than thou I think you've said) that I was driving at. I've meanwhile left a note on the user's page asking for an undertaking to not do stuff like that any more and it's on my watch list, should the user not take that to heart, I'll be racing you to revert and reprotect it, to be sure... Happy editing!  + + Lar: t/c 20:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, that was you I said that to? Meh, don't take any of my insults too seriously.  I tend to forget about negative stuff within a week.  No need to continue any past unpleasantness.  -- Cyde↔Weys  20:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Template help
I noticed you're quite involved with templates, so maybe you can help me. I'm working on Template:Infobox Writing system, along with the rest of Wikiproject writing systems. We need someone who can help edit esoteric templates. Would you be willing to help? Can you direct me to more people who would be willing to volunteer? Thanx.--<tt><font style="background:green" color="white"> The ikiroid </tt> 23:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Block conflicts
My bad, sorry. If you want, I could reblock him for 48h. On the other hand please do not forget to leave a test5/test6/blocked message on talk page of the blockee. Thanks abakharev 23:37, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Your right I was wrong. I thought, stubborness was Vanalism. Thanks for pointing that out. Falphin 02:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Categories of Oz on DRV
My apologies for the bulk-nature of this message, but as someone who had participated in the CFD for the "X Gang of Oz" categories recently I felt that you should be notified that they were up for review here. This is not a solicitation of a specific response there (all users who participated were notified), but if you feel you have some insight I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks! Syrthiss 15:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Gossip writers
The "Category:Gossip writers" seems to have been created by multiple hardbanned User:Ted Wilkes (see ) in order to denigrate some writers he doesn't like, as only a handful of authors are listed there. In my opinion, this category may be deleted. See. The "Category:English celebrity biographers", also created by Wilkes with similar intentions, has already been deleted. Onefortyone 17:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

This seems like the kind of thing that should be dealt with at WP:CFD ... Cyde↔Weys 17:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

AGF redirect
You're not actually the one who did it (this time). Somebody restored it, and it just got re-redirected on RfD. I've got it covered though; I'm nearly done. --Rory096 17:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I'm still somewhat responsible for this whole "movement" against cross-namespace redirects :-P  Cyde↔Weys  17:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Sorry Cyde but I find it strange that you deleted Template:Db-notagsupplied when the majority of votes was keep. Respond on my talk page. Anonymous anonymous17:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Check the deletion log again. And I'll respond here thank you very much. -- Cyde↔Weys 18:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

For the record, to anyone else reading this ... I'm just going to start reverting further baseless accusations against me because I am really getting tired of them. -- Cyde↔Weys 18:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was just curious. Sorry if I caused any offense and I apologize. Anonymous_anonymous 18:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not you in particular, it's just this is the fourth time in a short while that I've been accused of doing something I had nothing to do with. Please check admin logs in the future before saying stuff like this.  Thank you.  And thanks for using a small sig when posting here :-)   Cyde↔Weys  19:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

First off Cyde, please remain civil, second off, you have no right to revert any comments anyone chooses to make, just because it says your name on top of the talk page does not mean you have the right to delete other peoples messages.-- GorillazFan  Adam  01:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * He was being civil. Check the deletion log.  Someone else deleted the article.  Why would he need to keep a question like that on his page?
 * That wasn't a vandalism warning or template tag in any event. You are generally allowed to remove things from your own talk page. MilesVorkosigan 18:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is considered rude to remove things from your talk. To ignore it, take the thirty seconds to say "please check the logs", or to make more informative closes to avoid the issue in the first place would all be more socially acceptable ways of dealing with a problem like this. -  brenneman  color="000000" title="Admin actions">{L} 02:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's a link: Talk_pages. - brenneman  color="000000" title="Admin actions">{L} 03:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * For example, I thought it was both rude and foolish to remove the section titled "Umm..." from the bottom of this page, considering that I had replied to the questions in it, and once it was deleted, someone came along and asked the same question, unable to see my response. Cyde - it actually pays to be more respectful. -GTBacchus(talk) 03:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

My RfA
I was wondering if you could provide me with some creative criticism on my Requests for adminship/Computerjoe 3. This way, I can at least improve. Computerjoe 's talk 18:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

T2?
Hi, can you tell me / refer me to what T2 means? I can't find it... — Coelacan | talk 23:07, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It is a former criterion for speedy deletion that has been heavily discussed. Ans  e  ll  Review my progress! 23:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I see. Then I wonder, if it's a former CSD, why I'm getting T2 substitutions on my user page today. — Coelacan | talk 23:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it was just made former and I didn't get the memo. -- Cyde↔Weys  23:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think of it so much as "former" as in a Schrodinger's cat-like state of superposition... -GTBacchus(talk) 23:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Regardless, these political parties fall under T1 anyway (which isn't in such a quantum state). -- Cyde↔Weys  23:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * As you know, I fully agree with that. -GTBacchus(talk) 23:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Both divisive & inflammatory? The implication of the content would stay the same no matter how it gets included in the userpage.--Ssbohio 00:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind we're talking about speedy deletion criteria for templates ... once it's no longer a template the criterion doesn't apply. -- Cyde↔Weys  00:30, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That's the part that I don't see in the whole "userbox thing." I could see applying article standards to templates used in articles, and, likewise, I don't understand having a different standard simply because system architecture puts these items in a different storage area.  I don't think that the people who don't want userbox templates here would become happy with them if they suddenly moved to a differently-named section, but I'm open to the idea, if it would resolve this issue.--Ssbohio 00:57, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It actually makes a difference, moving them to userspace. The very act of getting them out of template space sends a message: "This isn't what we're about."  If you want an ideological userbox, you can create one on a page with your name on it, where it's clearly not part of the same "omni-space" where proper templates live.  The universality that userboxes enjoy in template space helps reinforce the message that Wikipedia is somehow an place where partisanship is just hunky dory.
 * It's totally dissonant to simultaneously allow the use of resources for the formation of partisan activist clubs, and then get upset when people form those clubs and start with their activism. We should be consistent. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It may make a difference in your mind, but it doesn't make a difference to most people using userboxes. It's just "hey copy and paste this and you get this neat little card on your user page". I know it's technically true that userboxes live in encyclopedia space, but it's not psychologically true. We aren't going around adding userboxes to encyclopedia articles, and ubx people wouldn't think of doing this, because psychologically, userboxes live in userspace, and that's already the equivalent of the subst replacements that Cyde's very efficient bot is leaving around (btw I do appreciate that, rather than just deleting them wholesale as some are doing). All that's happening is people see their user page edited and feel that they're being violated, with no good reason, because they weren't putting userboxes anywhere but their own page.
 * Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that getting them out of template space doesn't send any kind of clear message, because people using userboxes aren't thinking to themselves "heh heh I'm using encyclopedia space to network my userpage with other users! I'm so sneaky!" They're just using their userpage as a tool toward a basic human drive: being social apes. What else do you expect? — Coelacan | talk 02:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I dunno, how do you explain people who manage to be social apes without using userboxes? Anyway, if you're right, then why does anybody oppose their userfication?  Obviously it means something to someone that they're in template space, or nobody would care if they moved. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth anytime I hear people complaining about deleting userboxes as stifling creativity and individuality, I just can't help but laugh. -- Cyde↔Weys  02:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * GTBacchus, 1. Why some and not others? Different strokes. 2. It means something to people that they can network their userpage with other users. The category and/or "what links here" is how the social networking happens. "Hey now the bottom of my page says 'Wikipedians who love cats.' Oooh hey who else is in the cat lover category?" It's neat and simple so some people dig it, that's all. It doesn't mean anything to us that "this template entity resides in encyclopedia space", what's important is that "this simple cut and paste puts me in a self-selected social group". And 3., Cyde, let's be clear, I didn't say "creativity" or "individuality", I said "social" and while that's often the route away from individuality, we are social apes and we do seek out that sort of thing. — Coelacan | talk 02:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Speak for yourself, I'm no fuckin' ape. -- Cyde↔Weys  02:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry my language offended you. — Coelacan | talk 02:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm a great ape dammit. Be more specific in your scientific nomenclature :-P   Cyde↔Weys  03:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason why they should be in the Template namespace is so that multiple people can use them without trying to find the code on other userpages or making them just like templates for articles—David618

Ok, let me try something. Coelacan, or anyone who thinks userboxes are just cool: Which of the following do you disagree with? -GTBacchus(talk) 02:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The "networking" use of userboxes is attractive to activists.
 * 2) Activists are bad for Wikipedia.
 * 3) It makes sense to discouage activism by getting rid of boxen.
 * I would disagree with "Activists are bad for Wikipedia." I understand that it can set up a concerted edit, but that's nothing that a couple of reverts and a temporary page protection can't fix. How often is this really happening? Anyway, the other thing it sets up is people meeting people, to talk about whatever, totally outside of Wikipedia. I know Wikipedia's not a social networking service, but we also know that a lot of people spend a lot of their time here, and it's natural for people with similar interests to spend some of that time engaging each other (Wikipedia + whatever = hey we already have two things in common). Wikipedia's not social networking, yet there have been physical conventions of Wikipedians in general. Is that bad? Okay now I've answered your question... so one of mine... do you see how userboxes are psychologically in userspace? I'm just asking because I wonder if people who don't already use userboxes, esp. category userboxes, appreciate what others see in them. — Coelacan | talk 02:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I wholly agree with Coelacan's response. —David618 03:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll answer your question first, but I also have a reply to what you just said, Coelacan.


 * Do I see that userboxes are psychologically in userspace?... Sort of.  They're certainly not thought of as being in article space, or even quite in normal template space - they all start with the word "user", and that serves as a psychological separator from the rest of template space.  User space, on the other hand, feels different still.  If you make a subpage to your user page, for example, it's name is User:Coelacan/foo.  Having your name attached to it makes it no longer such a shared thing, psychologically.  User space isn't a big, common area like template space is; it's a bunch of separate rooms, instead.  That's very different.  I'd say that, psychologically, userboxes are in a space of their own, a sort of subspace of template space, much closer to user space than to the articles.  Does that seem reasonable?  It certainly explains people being so opposed to userfication: it's like being sent to your room.


 * When userboxes started appearing, I had a few, until I decided they're a bad idea. They had categories attached.  I didn't really think much about it, because I just... I dunno, didn't have networking in mind.  As you say, diff'rent strokes.  I satisfy my needs for social networking somewhere else, I guess, and think of this as a place to work on an encyclopedia.  I'm not opposed to it having a social side, heck, I've been to one of those meetups you mentioned, and I'll go to more.  But check this out - over the course of 10,000 edits, I've gotten to know some people here, a little bit.  It happened because we were working on the same articles, not because we had some userboxes in common.  Social networking isn't a matter of collecting stickers and saying, "oh look, we have some of the same stickers, let's... network?"    Don't you think meeting prople who work on the same articles as you, or in in the same Wikiproject, is a valid way to network?  Maybe even more meaningful than collecting stickers?


 * Userboxes are fulfilling a psychological need, and I think it would be worthwhile talk about what that might be. Thoughts...? -GTBacchus(talk) 04:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyway, as for activists not being bad for Wikipedia, I disagree strongly, based on 8000 or so article space edits, many of which involved repairing damage done by activists, who don't care at all about NPOV, because they've got an agenda to push. I'm telling you, they're worse than vandals.  I'm not failing to assume good faith, because I'll never assume an individual is an activist - no matter how many boxen they've got - unless they act like one.  You have about 150 article space edits, Coelacan, and David, you have around 200.  When you have a couple thousand edits, you'll know what I'm talking about.  My opinions about activists on Wikipedia are based on hard experience.  I hate to pull rank, but you really don't know.
 * You want to know how often it's really happening, POV groups using user categories to try and overwhelm discussions with sheer numbers? It really does mess up the process, and it's been happening increasingly, as far as I can tell.  I don't have numbers.  Maybe we could work some out, if that's helpful.
 * The fact is, though, that anyone with an agenda would love to control what we say about their pet topic, and that is utterly contrary to the goal of a free, neutral source of accurate information for everyone who can get online. If we don't constantly struggle to rise above partisanship, then everyone loses, and Wikipedia sucks, just like every other crappy website. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll start with the activism thing, as I think it's at the forefront of this issue from your perspective. I have a vague idea of the amount of vandalism, because I can think of just what proportion of my edits have been vandalism reverts. I've seen some pretty subtle stuff, too, that gets overlooked for weeks. I know about pet POV pages too... I was accused of protecting Ned Lamont, and if you look at my edits there and the talk page, you may feel that's what I was doing, or you may see the point I was trying to make, but in any case, I was close to 3RR so I just backed off. And I've cleaned up a lot of vandalism on articles linked to from the main page (who, I ask you, who could vandalize cuttlefish when they're so cute? these people are monsters, I tell you). So I've seen it from all sides. But you're right, I really don't know, and that's why I asked about the frequency of the concerted POV edits.
 * But I have to point out Ssbohio's response below, about the technology vs. the behavior. I too can think of other ways to do concerted edits, both by organizing entirely within userspace or entirely outside Wikipedia. Understand that the most common kind of concerted trolling that happens on the web is organized on a forum (like Something Awful) or less commonly a blog, planned in advance, and then executed with hundreds of new accounts that were recently registered on the target forum or blog. A few years ago it would start in IRC, and for some types, it still does. Organizing within the target is much rarer, and I'll bet that however much it's happening here, the former type is more prevalent, and will only become more so if userboxes and their categories disappear. (I hope I'm not spilling the beans with those examples but I think we're well past that point, however feel free to edit this paragraph as necessary.) Those are all examples that don't need Wikipedia's networking, but I can also imagine some very quick tricks that could take place with non-categorized user pages.
 * As to the psychological aspect of it, I feel that you totally got my point and I'm glad of that. Now, I agree that working together on edits is more personal, and "Hey, you like cats? I like cats! Let's be friends!" probably hasn't happened since kindergarten for most of us. "Trading stickers" is an apt metaphor, and while I imagine it to be unfulfilling, I'd prefer not to make a value judgment on others' methods. But when you are about to leave a message on someone's talk page for a wiki-related reason, don't you ever look at their user page first to see who you're dealing with? And we're assuming neurotypical in this discussion. I'm sure we have some people on Wikipedia with Asperger's who likes watching trains, who would really be happy to meet someone else who likes trains, and exchange IM nicks, and talk about trains all night long. And that could be ideal for them, totally fulfilling, in fact just the kind of thing they might be looking for. I hope I haven't offended anyone here, I'm trying to advocate, but it may be disrespectful of me to hold someone else up to make my point. If anybody feels that way, I will listen carefully and respond to anything left on my talk page.
 * To get back on track, I have Template:User cat lover on my user page and I like it there. I'm fond of it, and I'm fond of the big Coelacanth picture I found here too. In fact I like everything about my user page, it's pleasing both to my eye and my amygdala. I can't say that I need Template:User cat lover to be category networked, and yet if that was subst'd out I feel I'd be losing something. For the slightly more serious categories, for some people it may just be the counter aspect they're interested in. I've looked at Category:Wikipedians with World Citizenship and thought to myself "sweet. over 500." I don't know what exactly the function of that is for me, as I've never contacted any of them, and didn't plan to. But hypothetically I could see planning a convention using userbox-linked categories and leaving invitations on people's talk pages.
 * Before I end this semi-rant... This is all just about concerted POV editing and vandalism, right? Because it seems like a lot of people are throwing out red herrings. Now I could be wrong, but all these arguments about user space vs. template space seem a little disingenuous to me sometimes, as I'm not aware of anyone having suggested removing Template:Pic of the day or Template:Signpost-subscription although these are clearly outside of userspace yet being pasted all over people's user pages.
 * And I do hear what you're saying about rising above partisanship. But I think the T2 approach amounts to punishing everyone (or everyone who likes their userboxes as they are) for the bad behavior of a very slim minority of users, and I don't think T2 is at all conducive to a positive experience for many of us. Most of us with T2-vulnerable userboxes are not abusing them. And since you can rest assured that removing one tool won't stop these kinds of attacks, why go that route? — Coelacan | talk 06:09, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Contrarian that I am, I have to start by rejecting the premise. I don't think it's a question of userboxes being "cool."  I simply don't think they violate consensus-set policy, which is why I advocate their retention, even the ones I don't personally care for.  As for the 3 points you raise:
 * I agree.
 * I disagree. Activism is Wiki-neutral.  We need to be concerned with the edits, not with the editors.  Most people who edit here have a point of view, but most edits are from a neutral point of view.  Some people are even activists, yet their edits are still encyclopedic & NPOV.
 * If user behavior is the problem, then focus on user behavior, not on the technology employed. Stamping out one mechanism will invariably lead to other workarounds.  It would be a bad idea to suggest them, but I've thought of a few ways to get the same community-connecting effect of a userbox even without the box itself.  History teaches that attempts to regulate behavior by restricting access to tools is, at best, partially effective.  Usually, it just encourages a change of methods.
 * I want to see userbox templates stay, but, more importantly, I want to see userbox creations & deletions stopped until consensus exists on userboxes as a whole, excepting ones that clearly & unequivocably violate policy no matter what space they're in, like copyright violations.--Ssbohio 03:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Thomas Becket
Cyde, Jimbo did not say "Who will rid me of this turbulent template!", he just asked that people avoid using the darn things. :) Seriously, reverting the Christian template to an entirely different meaning isn't going to help calm things down or help to persuade people to stop using it.

Perhaps it would be more useful to try to gain consensus on making T2 policy? MilesVorkosigan 23:51, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I concur (and I enjoyed the Beckett reference). Jimbo Wales spoke of changing the culture one person at a time.  He didn't recommend using less gentle methods, to my recollection.--Ssbohio 00:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not committing murder here so I don't see how the allusion is appropriate :-/  Cyde↔Weys  00:50, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think you're open to a charge of Wikicide... Maybe WikiCyde, however...  A pun, I know.  I beg forgiveness in advance.  :-) --Ssbohio 01:00, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You don't need to apologize for puns when talking to me ... hell, everytime I sign one of my comments I'm making a pun. -- Cyde↔Weys  01:42, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Remember 'There Is No Irony On The Internet'. We need more emoticons around here.  When you say you don't understand the allusion or before when you said that you thought a spinning crucifix was more NPOV, were you being serious, or were you joking?  I can't tell.
 * And yes, I'm sure you haven't murdered anyone either. :)  MilesVorkosigan 16:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm more of a troll than anything else, so if it seems like I'm not getting humor I'm really being fecitious or deadpan. That being said, if you only see a symbol from one orientation you're really not getting all sides of the story.  For this encyclopedia to truly be NPOV all symbols really must be presented from, at least, all four unique cardinal directions (obviously if the symbol has symmetry then all four aren't required).  Various aspects of movement are also other ways of showing NPOV, so we must show all symbols (at least!) spinning, gyrating, and growing/shrinking.  -- Cyde↔Weys  17:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Bot
Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but I'd really appreciate it if your bot did not make changes to my userpage. I'd rather have the lost userbox templates be obvious to me. Thanks.--Ssbohio 02:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

If you have a problem with the size of the userboxes, why not edit the userbox in question (if it is not of the right size) then going to each and every page and userfying them? DanielZimmerman 03:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot
SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better -- thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 03:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair use images on user pages
Hello, perhaps you are unaware of Wikipedia's fair use policy, according to which images uploaded under a claim of "fair use" may not be used in user namespace. Please remove Image:J-tieupmaki-p.jpg and Image:James breasts.jpg from your subpage User:Cyde/Weird pictures accordingly. Thank you! Angr (t • c) 12:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked imposter categories
Hello Cyde. This message is related to the category renaming your bot is performing. The blocked imposter categories work a little differently than might be expected: all subcategories transclude the parent category as a template. I've updated the categorisation, but the template calls need to be replaced with the new parent category. A bot just needs to go through the subcategories and replace any instances of  with. Could you have Cydebot do this? I could dust off Pathosbot to do it sometime, if your bot is busy with the other category renaming. —Pathoschild 12:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Pywikipediabot is choking up on these malformatted templates that include other namespaces in their names. You got a better way to do it?  AWB maybe?  -- Cyde↔Weys  14:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I usually use Pywikipedia's <tt>replace.py</tt> with regex as specific as possible, so that it doesn't make unintended changes. The regex I gave above, for example, won't affect category tags. // [ admin ] Pathoschild (talk/map) 00:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

WP:ENC, etc.
WP isn't a bureaucracy -- that's why, when Tony speedily ended a debate at DRV without taking account of anything, and a fellow admin complained, I speedy listed at TfD rather than opening a new DRV. WP isn't a bureaucracy, but it should be fair and deliberative: these values are the cornerstone of wisdom, which is essential to an encyclopedia. By permitting discussion, and not shutting it down prematurely, I am being properly anti-bureaucratic, and properly pro-encyclopedic. Best wishes, Xoloz 17:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Defender of the Wiki
I hereby award you
 * I second the awarding of this barnstar. Netscott 15:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Naming convention poll
I welcome this in principle, but please see Talk for the reason I'm reluctant to participate. <span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">—phh (t/c) 21:08, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

User:ObRoy is engaged in widespread canvassing for a vote. BTW I've created a warning template on canvassing, canvass. It might be of use to you. FearÉIREANN \<sup style="color:blue;">(caint)|undefined 21:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice template, I shall definitely remember that one. Obviously it should be substituted upon use, correct?  -- Cyde↔Weys  22:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

User notchav
I would also like an answer to the questions that you removed from the talk page. I did not see the debate but if Raichu & DanielZimmerman said that there was consensus to keep the userbox, why did you close debate? —David618 02:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I've already answered this previously on my talk page. -- Cyde↔Weys 03:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * My appologies. Can you direct me to where the answer is? —David618 23:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Reverting your revert
I reverted your revert as it was a valid question. If a reason for revert was provided I'd be satisfied. Computerjoe 's talk 20:04, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Month?
Do you think that's a bit long for a dynamic IP? I'd been going w/ 31 hours. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Just curious, how do you know whether it's dynamic or static? WHOIS info?  Yeah, if it's dynamic, a month doesn't make any sense.  -- Cyde↔Weys  05:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I may be wrong, and haven't done a Whois, but since they've edited from 3 different IPs in quick succession, I assumed they're hopping around somehow. Does that mean they're dynamic IPs? -GTBacchus(talk) 05:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't even see the others. Can you link them here?  Are the addresses in the same small blocks?  If they're all over the place we're probably dealing with zombies or proxies, which should be blocked indefinitely.  -- Cyde↔Weys  05:34, 28 May 2006 (UTC)



Those all fit in.... 70.213.128.000/17, but that's a pretty big range, about 32,000 addresses, I think -GTBacchus(talk) 05:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

WP:AIAV
Help? D G X  06:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, there was a pretty big backlog before you and another editor showed up. D G  X  06:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm Back!
Thank you for your well-wishes during the WikiBreak! :) - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 15:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Question Removal
Why did you remove my question for KimvdLinde, on her admin canidate page? 59.20.72.35 22:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Anons can't vote. -- GeorgeMoney T·C 22:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

RfA
I apologize about my misunderstanding when I added back his RfA, as I thought only bureaucrats and admins were allowed to remove them. Best of wishes, ☆ <b style="background:red; color:#FFFF00;">TBC</b> ☆ (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 02:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't technically know whether only bureaucrats and admins are allowed to remove nominations, but I value product over process. If a user wants to withdraw his own RfA, I say let him. No harm can come from it (that I can possibly think of). It also saves time. -- Cyde↔Weys 02:10, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Something bad
Someone created a hoax account of you in the wikipedia review, Strange huh Jaranda wat's sup 03:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind deleted and account blocked, but you should try to change your password there. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 03:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a Wikipedia Review account. I would have no idea how to change my password there since I never registered it in the first place. This is just some jerk disrupting WR to make a point regarding my statement on ANI that no one impersonates users amongst these two sites. -- Cyde↔Weys 03:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Please unblock me
I am apparently caught in an AOL "wide net" block. You are trying to stop a vandal - Dnd293. IP address is 205.188.116.72. Thanks --Hokeman 15:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Why?
Why did you delete my Left wing editors attempting to takeover Wikipedia without a MfD?--Gangsta-Easter-Bunny 16:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

CSD patent nonsense. -- Cyde↔Weys 17:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Some thoughts about userboxes
My position on userboxes is - in my own assessment - moderate and flexible. I do sympathise to some extent with your opposition to what goes on in the userbox gallery. As I see it, a large part of the problem is that the wiki process is not well adapted to pages in which original creative works are submitted by their creators. There's a certain arrogance, with which I am uncomfortable, about submitting the product of one's own creativity to a page that belongs equally to the whole community - if I design a userbox, who am I to say that it's good enough to be added to everyone's central gallery, who am I to impose my aesthetic tastes upon the community by submitting them to the community's pages? One man's art is another's graffiti. The wiki process works well for content that can be decided upon by more or less objective criteria (verifiability, consistency, etc), but userboxes and other products of creative effort are better suited either to pages controlled by their creator, or pages governed by an agreed process of nomination and review. On the other hand, I believe that most userboxes, including humorous ones, do serve a legitimate purpose (in short, it is always useful to know about the people we are collaborating with) and so I oppose their removal from the gallery at the present time.

I say "at the present time" because I can envisage a situation in which a better system of making userboxes available to the community is developed, and would not necessarily oppose radical cutbacks on the existing gallery if this better system were first allowed to mature (the two systems would need to coexist for some time). What I have in mind is a scenario in which: (1) users make their own original userboxes and corresponding code available on their userspaces, (2) user pages which contain such a gallery are added to a category entitled Category:User pages displaying original userboxes and corresponding code, and (3) a link to the category index page is added to Userboxes.

In writing this comment, I am essentially using you as a sort of miner's canary: if you don't object to a suggested creation of a new userbox-related resource, it's a safe bet that nobody will. I have already created a userbox gallery of my own. Before I take the next step of creating the aforementioned category and writing an introduction to it on Userboxes, I would like to know whether you see any reason why this would be unwise. You have several hours in which to answer, as it's very late in my timezone and I won't go ahead with this plan until after I've slept.

I'll leave it there. Goodnight. Zerrakhi 18:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No news is good news, they say, so I'll go ahead as described. Zerrakhi 06:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Category Art redirect
Hi - I see that you have deleted Category:Art, as expected with the merge to Category:Visual arts. However, there was also supposed to be a category redirect on Category:Art to Category:Visual arts. Will that be done (by you or another, I'm not sure) or is the change just not showing up yet? Thanks! Clubmarx 02:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

You can go ahead and add in the redirect yourself, you know. -- Cyde↔Weys 02:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I added the redirect, but according to Template_talk:Category_redirect the articles won't get re-categorized unless an admin makes the last edit on the category page. That's why I thought you needed to make the change, as an admin. Clubmarx 02:55, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for May 29th.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list.

Signature
WP:SIG is a guideline, not a policy. When and if it becomes a policy, I will change my signature accordingly. Keep in mind that consensus is around 80% of votes, and it is okay if I am in the other 20%, is it not? Fredil Yupigo 20:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not really okay. Could you at least remove those HTML comments?  That's really taking the piss. --Tony Sidaway 20:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah, I changed my mind. I'm gonna do it right now. F r e  d  d  i  e  01:17, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Block
-_-

I saw the blocked message and was all scared, and thought it was a glitch. Then I realized how close my edit and Nacon's was, and when I checked my block log I really was blocked, lol. It's okay though, thanks for checking and unblocking me ^^ Hobbeslover talk/contribs 00:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Cydebot?
Er, Cude, I don't understand these things very well, but the userpages of Hollow Wilerding socks that you've changed the tag on, for instance User:Winnermario, look a real mess now. If the tag or the cat is being deleted, fine, but to my mind those pages need some indication of which sock farm they belong to. The gave us a lot of trouble at one time, and I see signs that the same user may be about to start creating new socks. Could you tell me how I should best tag any such, please, in case I come across them? Bishonen | talk 01:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC).

Oh bleagh, what the hell happened there? Very ugly. Hrrmmm. Anyway, if you look at the diff you'll see it wasn't previously categorized by user anyway. I believe the scheme we're using now is "Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of USERNAME". -- Cyde↔Weys 02:04, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm starting work on modifying pywikipediabot to add a flag so that it's possible to not have it rearrange tags like that. Apparently there's already a request out there for this somewhere. -- Cyde↔Weys 02:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Super Smash Brothers League
Thanks for deleting that. I didn't realised that could fit under speedy. I hope now the anon gives up.Garion96 (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

God, I hope so too. We could have twice as many articles as we currently do if we wrote an article on every MSN group. Ugh. -- Cyde↔Weys 14:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Here's some thought, Garion96, if your going to call me names, just go right ahead and while your at it, get your head out of Cyde's a**. Secondly, Cyde, don't "Ugh" me. Besides, isn't what you want is more articles? AND IT WASN'T YOUR ADMINISTRATION WHO WRITES THOSE ARTICLES, IT'S US SO SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THEM AND GARION96, I WILL NEVER GIVE UP, I AM NOT A QUITTER, I GO OUT WITH A BANG AND AS LONG AS I AM BREATHING, I WILL MAKE IT MY SOLE DUTY TO TEACH OTHERS NOT TO GIVE IN WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH. I GREW UP IN A TOUGH COUNTRY WHILE YOU GREW (HAVE YOU GROWN YET???) IN A SOCIETY THAT APPLAUDS TEA DRINKING AND SHAKESPEARE. RESPECT, COURAGE AND HEART LIE INSIDE YOU. BY THE WAY CYDE, I NEED SOME INFO FROM THAT PAGE YOU DELETED SO IF YOU WOULD BE SO KIND INTO RETRIEVING THAT INFO (I READ THE UNDELETION POLICY SO DON'T GO, "I CAN'T RETRIEVE A FILE AFTER IT'S BEEN DELETED" BECAUSE I KNOW YOU CAN), I JUST NEED SOME STUFF FROM IT. AFTER I GET MY INFO, I SHALL INFORM YOU AND YOU MAY DO WHAT YOU WILL TO IT. DELETE IT, PISS ON IT, RUB IT ON YOURSELF IN THE SHOWER, I DON'T CARE, I JUST NEED SOME INFO FROM IT AND I WILL INFORM YOU OF WHEN I AM DONE. I AM A TRUSTWORTHY GUY, YOU JUST GOT ON MY BAD SIDE BUT THE GOOD SIDE IS JUST A TEMPORARY UNDELETION AWAY. THANK YOU. NEPats17 (talk) 00:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is my attack
Well, I hace confessed to vandalizing for the past several months, and for permanently scarring my reputation. I want to state now that Tex's contention that I haven't left is entirely false, I only came back on the 23rd to voice my opinion against RobChurch, and his RfA. Well, my attack: I am sorry for being the CIyde vandal and for my attacks on John Reid. I am sorry that I came here, stressing myself, and others out. To further emphasize this, I did create an account with the intention of it being constructive after a three month long meltdown. Hopefully, I will be able to edit constructively, and I am sorry for all the trouble I cause. Yes, people reform, and to be honest, the point of the vandalism was to attract attention to what I see as incivility, and the reasons several of my friends have left here. But vandalism is vandalism, so I better quit before I get in trouble. I am sorry I was ever apart of the project. I DONT want to be a Brian Chase. But, at least I did edit here constructively for a year and three months before I went haywire. ε γκυκλοπ  αίδεια  * 14:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Userboxbot
I am uncomfortable about you running Userboxbot. You have made many good contribs in the mainspace. Say... I reckon there will be less controversy around you if you just stayed away from userboxes. Raichu 01:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Plese See This Talk Page
Please see this talk page Cyde: User Talk:GorillazFanAdam

Why do I get the feeling that you are ignoring me Cyde?

Plankton's RfA
For correcting yourself (I said you flaunted flouted guidelines), you deserve a barnstar; since I'm too tired to find one, you'll have to settle for my not beating you with a stick for your erring originally. :) Joe 02:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked again
This is the second time this has happened. Is there any way I can prevent this?

Your user name or IP address has been blocked from editing. You were blocked by Cyde for the following reason (see our blocking policy): Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "GorillazFanAdam". The reason given for GorillazFanAdam's block is: "Blanking warnings on his talk page declaring them "personal attacks" shows

Your IP address is 64.233.173.80.

--RabidMonkeysEatGrass 03:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:Lord Presidents of the Council
Your Cydebot just moved the above category from Lord Presidents to Lords President. However, if you look at Talk:Lord President of the Council you'll note that the correct plural is Lord Presidents. Is it possible for you to move it back, or do we have to go through a CFD again? Many thanks. --Harris 07:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)