User talk:Dúnadan/Archive 1

Welcome
Welcome!== Saludos J. Alonso! My name's Nathaniel, but I go by the username Spangineer around here. I hope you enjoy editing wikipedia and that you stick around. If you have any questions about anything related to wikipedia, just let me know – go to my talk page, hit the plus sign (+) next to "edit this page" at the top and leave me a note. You can sign your name after you're done by typing ~. A few links you might find useful include: Tutorial, Manual of Style, Community Portal, Policy Library and perhaps most importantly, the Sandbox, where you can just play around and try different things. Have a great day, and again, any questions, just let me know! Happy editing! Spangineer &#8734; 19:50, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Languages of Mexico
Great work! And thank you for holding on a bit on the Constitution thing. The article just needs some minor tweaks, like linking to each language family's article, but that's nothing to loose sleep over. The IFAI request will take a couple weeks to get resolved, but I'll keep you posted if there are any new developments. Thank you! -- Run e Welsh | &tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa; 19:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Culture of Mexico
hey please can you help us to make a good article about the culture of mexico, i want to traslate the spanish version of the culture of mexico, please help me! --Mexxxicano

Mexicans and Salsa
You seem to be the wiki-expert for the Mexico article, so I would like you to debunk a rumour that I have heard. Is it true that Mexicans use salsa as a condiment on virtually every meal? I have been told (and read, right here on wikipedia) that Mexican culture uses a spicy homemade salsa called 'Zaboura' as casually as North American culture puts ketchup on a steamed ham. Thanks, and keep up the good the work

Reforma
Alonso, I have seen your contributions and I would appreciate if you can please revise the Reforma article. It is my impression that some contributors are letting their bias impregnate the articles, and making misleading comments that sometimes do not accurately represent the truth. Gràcies. Andres Lopez

Metropolitan areas in Mexico
Since you tend to edit around those articles, you may be interested in the rewrite of List of metropolitan areas of Mexico I'm working on at the moment. You can see it here. Comments welcome. Regards -- Run e Welsh | &tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa; 09:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I really don't know enough, or have the time, to actively edit. However, I will watch the pages and double check information and grammar for Monterrey, Mexico City, Guadalajara, Queretaro and Puebla. Hari Seldon 19:22, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Mexico
No, I think you did not read my comment correctly. The only reason I brought up my adminship status was that it almost sounded like you thought Alex was an admin here; he is not. However, I do know what you mean. Admins are not allowed to verify the underlying IP addresses of users; only those with the checkuser permission are allowed to do so. And about the content, I was making the exact same point you were making, by the way. But I was also asking you to not make accusations of vandalism, especially when they do not fall within the policy definition we have here. His edits are not a deliberate attempt to harm the encyclopedia, so they do not qualify as vandalism. Bad wikiquette? Certainly. But vandalism? No. Please tone down the rhetoric in that page... Tito xd (?!?) 00:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Monterrey and Mexican articles...
What brought you to the article Monterrey? I'm interested in knowing because this seems to be kind of a personal thing against me, for accusing you of sockpuppetry. It is very strange you are suddenly interested in the article. If it is a personal crusade against me, just say it because right now it is very obvious. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 01:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no argument with you, J Alonso, and agree with your arguments. I would prefer to go with Dina's solution of naming at least both Monterrey and Guadalajara as improtant cities in the "Second City" article, and I don't mind it being deleted from the Monterrey page AS LONG AS it is not added in Guadalajara or other Mexican city page. I prefer consensus and NPOV solutions, and greatly agree that naming a second city is, at best, subjective. However, I took Raveonpraghga's accusations that I was committing vandalism very seriously, and I demonstrated through actions, arguments, and sources that my claims are not without merit, and that his claims and actions are without merit and that it is he who was comitting vandalism. If we can agree on all this, then I think we can proceed. Lets take this discussion to Talk:Monterrey, in which I am sure AlexCovarrubias, you, I, and other editors can reach a consensus. Hari Seldon 02:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


 * At least lets show the consensus on the Guadalajara page so that other editors can revert his vandalism. Hari Seldon 03:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Latin America Economy
Alonso, I am sorry if I was misunderstood about my revision. I understand that all the information that was in the article was also covered by (i) the new CEPAL memorandum just released this week and that I included in the article or (ii) the table with figures about GNI, Gini index, etc. It seemed to me that, additionally, the CEPAL memorandum provided a bunch of new and valuable information about the subcontinent. Could you please kindly check again my revision and see it with new eyes, to confirm that all the information that was in the article was already in (i) my revision or the (ii) the table? If you find that something was missing, would agree to come back to my revision and add there the information that you think is convenient? Regards.--Diegou 12:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Regiabeauty
I suspected as much! I will report him (her?) as well!

Hari Seldon 15:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Covarrubias
I actually don't know him very much. I suspect he is a collaborator from Regioblogs who cheers for Rayados, but if it were true, his posts would be my only frame of reference. I don't think he would be likely of going against policy, but, as I said, I don't know him very well. If you want me to, I can help you out with any discussion you may be having. Hari Seldon 16:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've been studying your claim and now see what you mean. I have also discarded my hypothesis that Covarrubias was the collaborator I though he was... Finally, if you want to make a sockpuppett accusation against him, I'd back it, for I can see your point.
 * BRIMCs (found in a Covarrubias edit)? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!
 * Greetings! Hari Seldon 16:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't stand them either
Indeed, they are quite a nuisance (you forgot ravaeonphagha on the list of users we can't stand anymore)...

However, fighting them to elevate the quality of wikipedia is what will help us create a better wikipedia. I believe it is worth it. In any case, we are advancing, as it is clear that consensus is not in his favor. Hari Seldon 18:52, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Rename
As requested, I have renamed you. You can now log in with your new username. Warofdreams talk 03:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi Dúnadan, After I placed the photo of the Metropolitan Cathedral in the Landmarks section, I did a quick preview, but failed to scroll below the Landmarks section to see the mess I created. Thanks for straightening out that section. Best regards, User:Sba2

My mistake
I've listed my grievances in the Mexico City Talk Page. I am sorry for my edits. I didn't realize they were sourced. In journalism school we were taught to avoid adjectives, and this particular adjective bothered me a little too much, mostly because the reason behind that is a structural, centuries old, problem of government-centrism. That 25% of a nation's GDP is produced in one city (when the country has at least 150 other cities) is something to be frowned upon in my economic ideology. It is not good, and I did not like the positive connotation that the adjective "amazing" gave it. I would ask if it could be removed. Hari Seldon 07:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Corticopia's past
Hello:

I just want to share with you some information you might consider important. We had a very difficult time months ago removing Mexico from Central America in the article North America. Why? Because an "anonimous" user (IP from Toronto Canada) was reverting all the changes. I finally discovered he was an already registered user and got him blocked because of sockpuppetry. One month later, I found out he was already been accused of sockpuppetry with that account.

Well my point is that he is against of Mexico being included in North America. His main "argument" was that the UN geosheme includes Mexico in CA and that's it. He also denies that North America is also a subregion of America and ignores the cited content proving him wrong. Well, he is Corticopia. For months he was retired and trust me, NO BODY changed the articles North America and Central America (specially this one) to say Mexico was in CA.

Suddenly a "new" user shows up. He deleted a line in the article CA. It said "Mexico is rarely, yet sometimes included in Central America under certain definitions". This line was discussed and agreed. He changed it to "Mexico is included in Central America" then to "Mexico is sometimes included in Central America".

I don't know what his problem is. The important thing is I totally felt this is the same person we had a very serious vandalism problems months ago, so I checked his edit list. Wow! What a discovery, his first edit was the article Issac Asimov and articles about Canada and some other regions of the world. It was very obvious it was the same person. Please check this sources and this. Please, read them carefully.

Please check the contributions of each accused sockpuppetry account, specially the one of User:Ex post factoid. It is very obvious he is the same person.

He was dragged into the article Mexico when he was unable to "win" again in the article Central America (he didn't even try to change the article North America because he knows a lot of people guard that article). So his reason to say Mexico is in "Southern North America" are purely false and personal. He wants to "exclude" Mexico or make it "look" appart from Canda and the USA.

I'm telling you this because I think you don't realize his reasons are just personal, a personal aversion against Mexico being included in North America. If he's so interested in accuracy of the articles, why isn't he editing the article USA? He even asked Supaman to do it by himself. He's just there to exclude Mexico. Please read carefully the evidence provided in each sockpuppetry case. You said that you're an administrator in Spanish Wikipedia, so I think you're experienced in these cases. You will find it is the same person. Cortiopia has edited the same pattern of articles that the other accounts did. Too bad I warned him and I'm sure he stopped editing with that account to prevent being identified. I think we should stop him and prevent him from editing the article with his biased, excluding information, even if sourced, because his reasons are just personal and not for the sake of accuracy. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 06:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I wrote a note for you at Hari's talk page. Alex  Covarrubias  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] ( Let's talk! ) 00:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hola. I don't want to start a "fight" about something that happened in the past. I just want to say that if you felt offended by my words in the accusation, don't forget that you also "attacked" me. Perhaps in a more "sophisticated" way, but they were also attacks. If I say let's move on it was because I really meant it. I also want to apologize. All the evidence I checked by that time pointed to what you already know. Again, I'm sorry.


 * However, I don't think that users like Corticopia are good for Wikipedia, because all he is doing is promoting his own personal bias. Right now, he's engaged in (again) falsely trying to give the impression that Mexico is considered part of CA most of the times, which is false. Check North America. He included a citation that said that "in english NA also means US and Canada only". Well, that's right I already knew that! The problem is that he also included "and countries south of the US are in CA (Mexico or Nicaragua) or South America (Brazil, Argentina). That's a sourced reference, from Fowler's dictionary. However, even if sourced, it is misleading and I would say wrong, because there is enough evidence, referenced evidence, to prove Mexico is not often included in CA. My point (and I hope you can see it) is that he's only motivated to edit based on his bias and aversion against Mexico, that can't be good. Well, thanks for reading this and I hope we can really get over the past and start from zero. Gracias. Alex  Covarrubias  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] ( Let's talk! ) 18:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Really? Nor are you: in this debate, you were proved wrong and making claims that were proved to be false and again removing information.  Beyond that, I've nothing further to add. Corticopia 18:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Frankly, I can't and won't address AlexCovarrubias' commentary above at length, which is just one long-winded personal attack, predicated on the assumption that users worldwide may not share interests/perspectives and edit in a similar fashion. However, one thing is clear: he apparently side-steps the facts that my editions to the Mexico article and others are enhancements that have cited basis and are fairly neutral in viewpoint, while his are not.  Shoot the messenger(s) and misrepresent the facts/history all you want, but that doesn't change the information presented.


 * Moreover, it appears that I am not the only who "can't stand" the impassioned, 'nationalistic', subjective grand-standing of AlexCovarrubias/Supaman. If I had to engage these instigating editors incessantly, I'd probably come and go too.  If there should be a movement to ban users (and, despite accusations, note that the editors listed above are not apparently banned) -- given the verbose and perhaps obstructionist discussion surrounding recent editions to the Mexico article -- it should probably be to ban these two. Corticopia 17:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

RE: Mexico
Sorry: I didn't mean to cross paths regarding the technology statement, my edit merely concerned this ongoing morass regarding the introduction. Thanks. Corticopia 18:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Help on 1st World article
Hi, this is Cali567 and I'm a relatively new user. I'm not sure where to ask you a question, so I'll ask you here. I recently became part of a very big undertaking in the First World article...haha...I seem to have made some enemies and I was wondering if you could help. The wiki users, especially seong9023 or something like that, have been tearing everyones edits apart. I only mentioned in the article that Argentina and Mexico have high HDI's, which they do in fact. These users won't even acknowledge this fact, and instead put down many Asian countries as examples. I wanted to be fair and put different countries as examples...and it went from there. Now I'm accused of being rascist. I do not have a lot of time on wikipedia, and I was wondering if you know anything about the standings of Mexico or Argentina as first world countries. If you do, I would ne pleased if you could contribute to the article. Again, I only put that they had high HDI's. I would appreciate your help in this, as I don't know too much about economics. Thank You in advance. ; ] Cali567 04:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Economy of Mexico
My comments are in for the article Economy of Mexico. I'd like to know what you think about what I posted in the talk page. I will start looking for sources in the morning. Hari Seldon 08:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Religion
Kindly go to discussion in my user page Healkids 18:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry case dismissed
Hi Dúnadan. I have not been active in Wikipedia for some weeks (and will not be for while) due to professional and personal reasons, and just today I found out that the fake sockpuppetry case filed by Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) was finally dismissed by an administrator. Congratulations for that. Cheers. --Diegou 17:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

RE: Etymology of Mexico
Hi there! That's fine: just qualify or mention somewhere the sole use of México in Mexico/Mexican Spanish as opposed to Spanish (this distinction is made in the English dictionary reference I added). And thank you for revamping the article. :) Corticopia 00:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the source is both relevant and accurate: after all, it is a common (American) English dictionary (from one family of products, the other being (British English) Oxford). My point: I just think it important to point out the universal usage of México in Mexican Spanish, as opposed to the entire language, though I'm unsure how to phrase it. :) Corticopia 01:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If only English had a similar institution ... thanks. And yes: I object to versions (1) and (2), while supporting (3) and (4). Corticopia 01:23, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Great: I've edited my contributions. It might also be wise to get a wider perspective/broader consensus and place a notice somewhere 'popular', like the VIllage Pump (I think)?  Thanks again. Corticopia 01:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * My vote(s) for the third option was an error and I've since corrected it. As for my preference RE (3) and (4), I will think about this s'more change my opinion: it occurred to me that some sources indicate that Belize is not included in Central America, and 'Central America(n countries)' is a conciliation to those who must have that term in the intro.  Thanks!  Corticopia 01:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Mexico
Hey! I voted based on the options available, trying to be the most neutral and "precise", for me the rest of them are also not adequate, but I think the first one is the one that lies closer to reality. I think is easier to reach a consensus modifying the option I support than modifying the other ones. I've written already my opinion in the discussion.

Best regards Aldoman 02:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks again for all of your research regarding Mexico -- it truly is both informative and appreciated. I particularly agree that the content from Gran Enciclopèdia Catalana is worthwhile.  I thought about adding some content from other sources (some of which are already on the page) and I don't agree with all of your commentary, but I'm sure that this will be resolved successfully in the next day or so.  Again, I prefer 'southern' to not (more precise), but support either and also adding much more detail in the 'Geography' subsection and 'Geography of Mexico' subarticle.  I also find it curious that the instigating editor seems to have not commented.  Anyhow, thanks again! Corticopia 13:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello. In retrospect, I got a little carried away regarding recent actions, so I apologize for my insistence -- I guess I have been on-edge since this sleigh-ride began over something so relatively minor.  I still disagree with you somewhat on the interpretation of what consensus is regarding the poll results (perhaps my interpretation is broader than yours); nonetheless, I will add details to the 'geography' section and elsewhere with the goal of improving the article.  Thanks again for mediating, and navigating through, this.  :) Corticopia 13:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi there. By the way, your vandalism revert seems (for the geography details) seems to have not taken.  :)  Thanks.  Corticopia 21:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Image of Monterrey and Garza García
The picture could have easily been taken from the adjacent Torre Comercial América, which is almost as tall as the Torre CNCI (shown). The view of the Torre CNCI at middlepoint, which further indicate that the picture was in fact taken from Torre Comercial América. In fact, it isn't difficult to take a picture such as that if one knows enough about photography. I could have taken that picture myself. However, I understand your concern. If it were proven beyond reasonable doubt that this picture was in copyright infringement, I have many other pictures about both Monterrey and Garza García to contribute. I am a little busy right now, since I work and also go to school. But as soon as I have some free time, I'll get current in some of the proactive projects in wikipedia, including the Economy of Mexico article, and a total re-do of the Garza García article, which is much needed. Hari Seldon 22:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Economy of Mexico (comments in my talk page)
Thank you for your comments about my blog! I can tell you that it is not as well mantained as I wish it was, but this is because I am getting more busy as I am getting older :(

I am overwhelmed with exams and project reports at the moment, but will contribute in the measure of my time possibilities. I am also working on the Cristero War article. I am researching some things and will be adding information soon. By the way, what do you think of the recently created (by me) article Gruma?

About the discussion on how to proceed with the nomenclature issues, I am still unsure what to respond. On one part, I do not know if I am letting my regionalism cloud my judgement with this issue (for I feel stronly about Monterey). On the other hand, I am in an environment in which everytime people talk about Monterrey, they mean the metro area. "I went to Monterrey to do some business with Cemex", (Cemex is HQed in San Pedro)... "Hersheys is opening a plant in Monterrey" (The plant is being opened in Apodaca), "I am going to the Tecnológico de Monterrey EGADE campus in Monterrey"... For all practical purposes, anyone who talks about Monterrey refers to the metro area.

So I don't know. Your arguments seem solid, but on the other hand, I feel that it is, indeed, a matter of taste. People talk about "Monterrey", and about "Mexico City" in general, and not about the official limits of the city itself. That is why i propose a vote. I think that, at least for me, I have too much emotion and bias to make any decision. If there were a neutral opinion, or a vote, I would feel more comfortable with that.

Hari Seldon 00:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have read your arguments, and I find them 100% valid and accurate. I have not responded because I do not know what to respond. I also feel that my arguments have sufficient grounds.
 * But precisely because I am partial, I would rather have someone else participate. A "neutral" judge if you will. I would rather not participate in this debate anymore. Whatever decision is taken, I will respect it. But I cannot make the decision myself.
 * However, because the issue is going to be a heated one, I would suggest you don't go ahead in making a determination by yourself. Invite others, at least, someone else, to participate. Perhaps an editor in Project:Cities?
 * By the way, I've recently created Gruma and did some minor updates on Gamesa.
 * I was thinking of creating a Monterrey Portal, and, why not?, a Mexico City Portal and a Guadalajara Portal. I think that there is sufficient articles, information, and interesting things about these cities to make portals about them. Don't you?
 * Hari Seldon 00:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I would love to participate in all of that! But currently, I am quite busy with school. Lets see how things develop. Hari Seldon 00:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

WTF
WTF, dude, I never agreed to say that it was in Middle America, that option wasn't even in the poll that you made, I agreed to say that it was in southern North America, and I'm respecting that, but honestly I don't get what your obsession is with excluding Mexico from the same region as Canada and the States. Supaman89 23:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No man, what pisses me off so much is the fact that we never talked about "Middle America". About the "Group of Nations" thing, don't you see that you're offending a whole country, any Mexican that see that will think "Oh there it is once again, Gringos trying to exclude us from NA, using all kinds of terms just to put us apart", why isn't there a "Middle South America", or "Northern South America", I'll tell you why, because South Americans don't create sub-regions just to exclude each other. Anyways, just forget about it, hope you enjoy Wikipedia. Supaman89 19:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Middle America (disambiguation), Middle America (North America) and Middle America (Americas)
Sorry for disturbing you with with another foolish edit war, but the Middle America is on the table again. During the last 24 hrs each article was already reverted 3 times by user Corticopia and by my self. I request for a consensus to end this silly discussion, see Talk:Middle America (North America). JC Febraury 27 2007, 11:30 (PST)
 * Hi! Thanks for weighing in -- you might need to clarify what you mean by 'horrible'.  I don't necessarily disagree but there's been so much chat, so little patience. :) Corticopia 01:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Economy of Mexico
are the links that I posted wrong? you know about the growth of the economy of Mexico, i havent seen any change in the Economy of Mexico... –Mexxxicano 02:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Geography of Mexico, Mexico article and Maps
I hope you don't mind. Corticopia and I have modified the article Geography of Mexico following a concensus about the different existent subdivisions of the Americas (North, Central, South; Northern, Middle, South). I edited the geography section in Mexico to be consistant with the changes in the other article. I also would like to invite you to expand the article I just created North America (Americas). Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 16:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

About Fundidora Park pic, don't you think the new one looks better? It has more quality and more vibrant colors. If you upload a new version of a pic, a copy of the previous version is kept. There is always the chance to revert it. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 18:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Told you about the pics. I think I get what you want. I have some other pictures of the Fundidora facilities that looks more "industrial". I don't know if you are aware that Fundidora is no longer active. The whole site was turned into a park, and all the remaining industrial buildings are fully surrounded by huge green areas. Alex  Covarrubias  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] ( Let's talk! ) 19:07, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes I am in Monterrey. I think I have some pictures about industrial facilities I'll check my files. If not, I will go photo-hunting this weekend. :P Alex  Covarrubias  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] ( Let's talk! ) 19:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I enojoy creating graphics a lot! By the way, the sentence should say "Countries that Mexico has signed a FTA with". Alex  Covarrubias  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] ( Let's talk! ) 22:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Sure, just tell me what you need and I'll create it. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 14:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Geopolitics
I would like to ask your help please. I know this may not be of your interest but I think it is necessary that you read it. Please see the discussion in Talk:Americas (terminology). Remember how Corticopia used to concede that geopolitically Mexico is not included in CA? He used that argument in order to include in the article that part of Mexico (physiographically, geologically he wrote) is within the region. Well, now that we are correcting this particular article, he says that is not true (anymore). He always try to confuse the terms, to include Mexico in Central America. I know how you feel about it, you say there's nothing wrong with it, but I think that Wikipedia must be accurate.

My arguments are simple. There are geopolitical regions in the Americas (a thing that he later denied in the debate). I added some references about what geopolitics are (I am very interested in politics and he seems not to know much about the topic). Those regions are very easy to identificate: North America (Can, US, Mex or also Can-US), Central America, the Caribbean and South America. He tries to include Middle America as a geopolitical region, or to include Mexico in CA. I want to point out that I have been neutral, I even conceded him with the reason in other articles (Middle America (Americas)).

As you may know, geopolitic areas are integrated by countries mainly due to their economical, political relations (militar, security issues are sometimes considered). For example, CA has a supranational political body, the Central American Parliament in which Mexico was never intended to be part of. Also, the economic integration between CA is quite obvious. More importantly, neither CA or Mexicans consider the latter a CA country. The same thing happens in the Caribbean, they have strong ties economically (CARICOM) and they even have political agreements to vote in block in the OAS and in the UN. Mexico and Central America don't have that kind of political or economical relations/cooperations, nor Mexico and the Caribbean.

Meanwhile, Canada, the US and Mexico do (NAFTA, SPP), and their economical and political relations are far more deep than the ones Mexico and CA present (Mexican Congressists and Canadian Parliament meet annualy, for example). In the last 12 years, those relations were deepened and it is well known that the three countries are looking for further integration by homogenizing laws.

When Corticopia felt he had no argument against my arguments (that Mexico is geopolitically not in CA), he "decided" to change the title of the subsection from "Geopolitical regions" to "Human Geography", so according to him, he could add Mexico in CA.

I honestly believe that at some point the article reached a NPOV with all the possible terminology included, but I guess he was not happy with the mention of Mexico being geopolitically linked to North America, instead of CA (or alternately Middle America). I'm desperate, I don't know what to do. He just won't listen to the arguments, and when the arguments overwhelm him, he decided to change the structure of the article (please! read the talk page and see the history of the article). The geopolitics section was there since the article was created. It falsely used the UN geosheme, but the UN states that scheme is for statistical purposes only and that it does not imply any political membership to any area. So I created a separate section for the UN geoscheme.

Please, I need your opinion. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 18:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Dúnadan. I just wanted to say that I'm kinda sad/surprised about your comment in which you say that I look for sources to "push a POV". I certainly don't, I honestly don't. All of the edit warring problems I've been recently involved in, are caused because of a lack of neutrality in the way a certain user edits the articles in which Mexico is involved. What I'm saying is basicly what you objected in the disambiguation of Mesoamerica: the most prevalent/used information should be used and must be given the proper weight in the article, accordingly with the evidence. For example, it is not the same to say "Mexico is a CA country" than specificly say "12.XX% of Mexico in physiographically in the CA region". In the same way, I find it very POV to describe Mexico as being located in "Middle America" instead of the most extended used geographical description of "Mexico is in North America". I'm never opposed of including the other possibilities when they are true, it is just a matter of giving each term the real weight it has in a particular article. Thanks for reading. AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 17:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * First of all, thanks for your condolences Dúnadan, I appreciate it. I need to go so I will be quick. I think it is appropiate the use of the qualifier because the use of "Middle America" as a translation for Mesoamérica is very rare. I deleted the qualifier because it said "rarely a synonim of Mesoamerica", I deleted "rarely a synonim" . AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 18:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * FWIW, AC(not D): the intro to Mexico describes it is in North America, and the geography section/article elaborates duly with all options. If one thinks that it is subjective and effectively backtracks on prior agreement, given the current situation, one must re-evaluate the motives of the actors involved ... including oneself. Corticopia 18:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

North America (Americas)
Guess what? Corticopia decided to nominate this article for deletion, saying that it should be just mentionated in the North America article and calling it a POV forking. Well, as you know he's a great promotor of the term Middle America (Americas), that includes Mexico, CA and the Caribbean, all parts of North America (continent). So it is really incongruent that he wants to delete this article and keep Middle America. Can you please see this and vote? I think he's gone too far. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Let's talk! ) 13:55, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * AC: I think YOU have gone too far. As I've stated there, there is a key difference -- the content regarding the sub/regions of Northern America (which is not merely a UN construct; see article) and Middle America (numerous definitions provided) are well sourced, while that of the 'region' of North America isn't.  This doesn't deny other continental models, but no sources have been provided that clearly delineate what the model upon which the nominated article is based.  The sources in North America (Americas) do not support the content in that article, and a read of those sources will reveal that.  Regardless, if necessary, applicable content can be added to the North America article instead of forking and conflating the issue.  Sorry to use your talk page, D. Corticopia 14:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

RE: Middle America/Mesoamerica
What I meant by 'stand corrected' is that I apologize regarding the POV statement.

Look, we're not in disagreement about the prevalence etc. about the terms, but when common publications (like the OED and Britannica) refer to Meso-America (infrequently) as not just the cultural area and, in the case of the latter, synonymous with Middle America, different perspectives must be given due weight. The Britannica ref is also not the only indication of this (which my prior link there indicated), yet you add a 'fact check' note. In the disambiguation, aren't entries supposed to be listed in order of prevalence? Mesoamerica is currently listed last. I have no true objection regarding the use of 'infrequently' in the DAB, but AC simplified it that way; if we say it's that, why must we reference it when it links to referenced articles which elaborate? Anyhow, if you wish to not get involved in sterile discussions (and I concur), that's your prerogative, but please read comments/citations beforehand. Thanks. Corticopia 17:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

North America
References need to be provided in articles - merely explaining where one might find some in your edit summary is insufficient. Any reader needs to be able to find the attribution for any information where appropriate. Things that are easily verified aren't always referenced, but form something like what you added, which isn't, a specific reference needs to be added. If there are references in Talk:Mexico, then dig them up and use them to cite what you want to add. Otherwise, editors are forced to revert per WP:A. WilyD 15:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

RE: North America > comments/apology
Thanks for your comments. I believe this is simply just another misunderstanding between you and I. I was not referring to your edits as being a rigmarole per se -- this was a general statement, given our and other (sometimes circular) edits/argument to the various articles concerning the Americas -- and appreciate your efforts to research and round out content. Nor was I being dismissive of your edits but (as you gather) precision is desired regarding these notions ... even if the notions are imprecise. Adding content that's merely 'implicit' complicates the issue for everyone. And when you refer to a term as 'confused and meaningless,' that does add fuel to a smouldering fire and can be perceived as being beligerent, but I will and do retract any potentially inflammatory comments to foster amity and also apologise if I 'popped off'. Corticopia 17:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK. The rigmarole I was referring to particularly refers to other editors and other articles about the Americas where there are ongoing challenges which I am also 'tiring' of (you can probably guess who and what) -- you just happened to get involved in it too (hence my use of per se, which was not in reference to your edits/contributions), and I appreciate your willingness to equilibrate everything. :) Corticopia 17:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Countries and Territories in North America article
Hello Dúnadan. For months, the definition of CA starting in at the Isthmus of Tehuantepec and Mexico frequently not being considered in the region, was presented just as a footnote. In the main paragraph of the subarticle "Countries and Territories", it only explained that Mexico is in CA according to the United Nations geoscheme, but didn't mention that Mexico is frequently not considered in the CA region, which is fully supported by most of the sources.

I think it is appropiate to move that information to the first paragraph, in which the "definition" of Central America is treated. I basicly copy-edited the information. However, I'm not sure if I did it right. Could you please check the wording? AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 18:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello. Errmmhh... somebody deleted your notation in the usage of NA section. Also, there is a "new" edit war. Please, take a look because it seems people listens to you. AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 21:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, by the way, check the new clickable map. AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 22:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Map of Mexico
Noted. I took a look and I didn't see such problem. Then I thought that you may be using Firefox or another browser. You were right. The problem only exist to Firefox users, I personally use IE so I never saw that problem. I will try to solve it. Thanks for the warning! AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 16:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I just fixed it. I have both IE 6.X and Firefox 2.0.0.2 (latest version), but I personally use IE. It is surprising that IE 7 have the same problem. Mmhh. I don't think it has to do with screen resolution. I personally use 1280 x 1024 (LCD 17" native resolution), but I also check how it looks on 1024x768 and 800x600 (remember I'm a webdesigner :P). What's your resolution? I think 1024 because that's nowadays most common SR. AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 16:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Is the problem solved for IE7? Can you please check? AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 16:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Territorial evolution of Mexico
Thanks for the comments. Due to lack of sources, I figured the best way to improve it was to just throw it to the wolves.

In re your comment on Soconusco, I think the list and map adequately reflect that, can you point out where it is wrong? The map begins with the 1824 constitution mainly because, I do believe, the lines were completely redrawn then, and I didn't have that information.

The Republic of the Rio Grande ... yeah, I can see that, perhaps I should color that region in the 'disputed' color. I never saw anything about Zacatecas declaring independence, though, I should find that... According to our article, it revolted during the Porfiriato, did you get mixed up, or did it also revolt under Santa Anna?

As for the Republic of Yucatan, what I gleaned from our articles is that it voted for independence once, but held off on actually doing it because they got a reassurance from Santa Anna that he would stop screwing things up. When it was clear he'd gone back on this promise, they finally went independent, both de jure and de facto. Is this incorrect?

Please let me know any other comments or corrections you have. :) Once I got outside the Anglosphere (my first three works were Canada, Australia, and the USA) this got a lot harder; Mexico fortunately never did a major redrawing of borders (after 1824). I'm working on Brazil now and it's getting a lot harder, there's very few sources that aren't in Portuguese. --Golbez 01:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Middle America
Hi Dúnadan. Remember the debate we had with Corticopia in Talk:Americas (terminology)? If you don't, please read it. We were demonstrating Mexico is part of North America geopolitically, while the regions of CA and the Caribbean constitute separate geopolitical regions on their own. Middle America is not a geopolitical region, since the political/economical integration and interdependecy between the three constituents of the regions is practically non existent. CA nations are going trough a phase of political and economical integration, that is deepening. The same happens with the Caribbean, that is already very integrated geopolitically. Such integration is not observed between Mex, CA and Caribbean. On the other hand, Mexico, the US and Canada are going trough a separate process of political/economical integration, thus, they are a geopolitical separate region.

I understand your concern about the term MA not being completely well defined as a geographical term. However, it was mainly coined as a geographical/cultural term. I think that when you were using the term "geopolitical" about MA, you actually wanted to mean the term was defined based in the political division of the region: Mexico, CA and the Caribbean. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, I think when you read the discussion in the Mexico talk, you'll see what I'm concerned about.AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 02:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's exactly what I thought, you were using the term to mean "geolocalization of political entities". I'm a student of Political Science and Public Administration at the UANL here in Monterrey. Geopolitics regions are easily distinctive in the continents due to the basicly 2 factors: economical, political integration. Some authors consider other factors such as the military cooperation, coordinated foreign policy and more recently "antiterrorist strategies".


 * Given the above, it is very hard to sustain "Middle America" is a geopolitical region, due to the fact that it lacks everything to be one between the member countries. Such geopolitical integration and relations of interdepencency are evidently present within Central America and within the Caribbean.


 * We have to be very carefully to not confuse the multiple randomly selected geopolitical areas that some authors write about in book. As I have said, one researcher can select a set of countries in a given geographic area and conduct a economic/political (geopolitical) study. That's the case of the article Corticopia pasted in the discussion, where Middle America is not considered as containing Mexico, but only the Caribbean and CA. On the contrary, it located Mexico in North America and directly defined the area as exclusively containing Canada, Mexico and the United States ("Yet, seven additional shatterbelts surfaced in North America (Canada, Mexico, and the United States[...]" ). So, I guess that article can, in fact, be a reference to North America being defined as Can, Mex and the US. AlexCovarrubias[[Image:Black ribbon.png|12px]] ( Let's talk! ) 19:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

RE: Middle America, et al.
Hello! I hope you're well. I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for my brusqueness in our recent discussions. As you can imagine, I have been rather frustrated not by you but by whom I perceive as being the instigator of this; the lengthy discussions have merely added to that and have seemed rather intractable. Anyhow, rest assured that I will continue my research and to source relevant notions regarding MA, so that we can reputably round out content. -- quite frankly, I haven't had time yet (given chats to date) to research anything about it at the libraries. Corticopia 16:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

RE: North America
Hello. I am merely pointing out that we are making judgements -- value and otherwise -- on this and other topics based on relative prevalence in source matter. Plenty more (academic and otherwise) may indicate or imply something different (e.g., more inclusive) about North America. Explicit notations and sources regarding usage of that term are limited (in the discussions about North America) to the sources I listed ... and other points of view (while obvious to some) may not be obvious to others. And the issue regarding Mesoamerica and Middle America is somewhat different -- they are both regions in the middle portion of the Americas, perhaps related and non-contraversial. Corticopia 17:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Valencia (autonomous community)
Hi, I noticed you tag yourself as an English native speaker, so I guess you could help us in the Valencia (autonomous community) article, where the use of English names is being debated.

There's also the typical discussion regarding politics. The term País Valencià is not acceptable for some people so they want to erase it. At first they said it wasn't official, when we proved it is, they moved to another excuse: Now they argue that there is no fitting translation into English. We have pointed at Land of Valencia and Valencian Country (both used in several English webpages or by native English speakers in their books). My English skills are not good enough to realize if they are bad English or not, but I proposed to translate the Spanish and Catalan articles Denominaciones de la Comunidad Valenciana and Denominacions del País Valencià.

Do you think you could take a look and say anything profitable? Thx in advance, --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 07:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contribution, it is always good to get a new point of view! I would be greatful if you could place the page on your watch list for the time being, as there are several ongoing disputes which might benefit from some more mediation. Physchim62 (talk) 13:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thx a lot for your aricle Names of the Valencian Community!
 * The problem with Valencia (autonomous community) was mainly the "Names' war" we Valencians seem to be condemned to since the 1970s. Just take a look to the never-ending blaverist vandalims!
 * I hope that, by writing the article about the names, we all feel our respective POV are explained and nobody tries to push his truth over others.
 * Moltes gràcies de bell nou!  :)   --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 07:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: New articles
Hi, Dunadan, I hadn't had time to see the articles about Mexico's Demographics and Politics until now. As usual, your work is of the highest quality. However, when it comes to Politics of Mexico, I think we could expand it by adding about the influence of media, NGOs, and of the International environment in Mexico. Perhaps a subsection of "other actors"? Unfortunately, I will be very busy with other work to make any contribution of significant value to wikipedia in the next few weeks. I hope you beat me to it, but if you don't, I will start researching about this in the next month or so. Greetings! Hari Seldon 16:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

País Valencià
Hola Alonso! en primer lloc et vull felicitar per l'article que has fet sobre les denominacions del País Valencià. Queda tot molt ben explicat i, a més, força documentat.

Sobre la discussió que hi ha ara mateix, creia que era poc factible poder incloure altres noms a la introducció de l'article, però després de les teves intervencions veig que es pot fer. Potser l'he vessada al dir que em semblava bé la proposta d'en Physchim62... Sort que hi has intervingut perquè en general hi ha molta tossuderia.

No sé si has vist que tampoc accepten que a la taula d'informació només hi hagi el nom oficial (com en qualsevol article d'un territori). Què en penses? --PmmolletTalk 20:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Pelota tarasca
I dare to ask you about the Pelota tarasca Mexican handball.

I play Valencian pilota, and my main reason to be in the wp was explaining this traditional game.

Valencian professional (and some Llargues variant amateurs) are chosen every summer to play Handball International Championships, where many European and American countries play their respective handball variants and the International game, a game created to share the common traits among all.

Mexican pilotaris played in the 1996, 2000 and 2004, and brought their own variant, the Pelota tarasca.

Do you happen to know anything about it? Thx in advance! Gràcies a la bestreta! --Casaforra (parlem-ne) 07:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

History of Mexico
I noticed that on 25 March 2007 you started a "major revamp" of the article History of Mexico. How is it coming? I just made a couple of minor edits in the After independence section and removed some vandalism from 28 March 2007 by IP editor 67.167.253.208. One of the things that the article is missing as a whole is citations for the specific facts. Are you providing those in your rewrite? --Bejnar 17:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

NAFTA article lacking info
Hello Dúnadan, I was reading the NAFTA article and I saw it lacks information about the agreement between Mexico and the US. As the article is now, it only focuses in the tariffs that were eliminated between Canada and the US, but nothing about Mexico. Since you're interested in economics, would you mind fixing this? Thank you. I'll also ask Hari to help. Alex  Cov   ( Let's talk! )  13:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism of Mexico
Hiya - spirited defence against the vandalism !! I have reported User:Hi27 to WP:AIV Pedro | Talk  14:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Newly industrialized country
Dúnadan, can you come and help in this article? There is a user that has been deleting info and refuses to consult the references and keep saying the list of NICs is OR, which is not. There are two books about it. I can't revert anymore. Alex  Cov   ( Let's talk! )  14:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the opinion, it was really useful. Perhaps, one thing would help to understand better what NIC is referring to nowadays: it is synonim of "Newly industrialized economy". These economies shares characteristic well defined. I found books (1980's) including also Argentina, Venezuela, when their GDPs were comparable to those of Brazil, Mexico or South Korea. However, the most recent sources tend not to include them. I'm also open to include more countries if the sources are provided, of course. Thanks! Alex  Cov  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] [[Image:Black ribbon.png|10px]] ( Let's talk! ) 20:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Didn't include them because the book was so old, it was outdated, it still considered the four Asian tigers as NICs, and didn't include many of the countries other recent works include, for example the GCC countries and Turkey. I only selected recent references, since they are more reliable. Alex  Cov  [[Image:Flag of Mexico.svg|15px]] [[Image:Black ribbon.png|10px]] ( Let's talk! )  20:23, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Valencia (autonomous community)
Thanks for your reply on the talk page, even if I don't agree with you. I will reply at further length there, but not tonight I fear as I must sleep as well... I am writing as a friendly warning that you are in breach of WP:3RR on the article, with four reverts in 24 hours. As one of the parties to the argument, I am certainly not going to take any admin action against you, or report you for that matter, but please lay of the article for tonight or someone else may notice the infringement. As the policy page says, you risk a 24 hours block. A Deu, fins a demà, Physchim62 (talk) 22:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I have forwarded your complaint to Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, as it is currently protected against vandalism. Physchim62 (talk) 01:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

RE: Etymology of Mexico
No, you clearly reverted to your version: I added links to the Mexican constitution and formatted text per the Manual of Style. Given the current article, the paragraph about the origins and history of the name makes sense being before that about the names of the current state. (However, I realise why you did what you did, particularly given discussions at Talk:Mexico regarding Mexican United States.) You're also editing on the basis that moving or converting this article to 'Names of Mexico' is a certainty: that may be fine (though that sort of title seems unfamiliar and odd), but the article isn't merely about the names of Mexico, but the origin of the name ... hence etymology -- most of the article deals with that. Propose your renaming or major changes on the talk page first; otherwise, it is not I who would be instigating a 'useless and frustrating confrontation again.' :) Corticopia 18:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, mybad! In any event, I prefer the current order for the introduction, or otherwise altering it, since Mexico is the major element of the state's name.  A deluge of bold text upfront is distracting.  Yes: the article can be enhanced, and you are to be commended for being a major contributor for it (I'll consider myself a minor. ;)), but I think 'Names of Mexico' sounds strained (and Names of Germany is a redlink) : perhaps Mexico's name (like Canada's name) or Etymology and toponymy of Mexico which IMO is probably the most encyclopedic, but esoteric. Corticopia 18:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Correction: Names for Mexico still sounds off, since the meat of the article deals with the origins and history of the name Mexico. Corticopia 18:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OK! :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Corticopia (talk • contribs) 18:56, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

RE: Toponymy of Mexico
Thanks for your work at (the new and improved) Toponymy of Mexico -- I think it's coming along!

Moreover, I've been keeping track of (and involved in) discussions at Talk:Mexico regarding the translation of Mexican United States: since a consensus (including me) seems to not have an issue with redirecting it, I have done so. Given the various renditions in the 1824 constitution (EUM, E-u m) and as it pops enough in English translations of the Mexican constitution, though, I have since come to the conclusion that MUS should be addressed more clearly (but briefly) in ToM. Particularly, I believe the article text regarding the 1824 text can be tweaked to address this. Don't get me wrong: I am not challenging the currency or prevalence of UMS, but perhaps we should try to head off any controversy by dealing with it? I've tried to tweak the article and think I've handled it adequately -- can you review and (if necessary) tweak? Merci! Corticopia 19:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ditto -- thanks! Corticopia 18:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi again! I'm uncertain if your comment was in reply to mine; don't get me wrong, I prefer the current title, but if it must be moved, it should be to 'Etymology of Mexico'; 'Name of Mexico' just sounds wrong. I find it curious that proponents for the move haven't suggested a more salient name, or perhaps they can't. Anyhow, there you go. Corticopia 18:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Great; I thought so! I was just mildly confused since you double indented under my comment, which (I believe) is intended as a response to a subsequent comment, not the originator of the comment. :) Corticopia 19:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

About to be reported
Being myself the first to add today in the article Balearic Islands, it is not me, but you the one reverting. So, If after proving you the facts (see: [] and []), you keep reverting, you will be reported for allegedly violating WP:3RR rule and you will also be reported for vandalism WP:VAN. --Maurice27 21:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Mexican Empire
No one thinks that the second or the first "was some kind of country that seceeded" we mexicans know it, and in fact many people in the country is reconstructing a good image for the emperors, both articles in wikipedia are not in the neutral point of view.

Anon edits at Valencia (autonomous community)
I saw your comments. Yes, it is the same editor (as far as anyone can be sure). My own view is that semi-protection is not the solution. The problem is more fundamental than that: roughly eight established users have been fighting it out on a four-on-four about one or two words! That, for me, is the problem :) I am not a neutral mediator, nor do I pretend to be, but I do try to separate my admin functions from my (more important) role as a simple editor. I will be presenting this article for mediation very shortly (unless someone gets there first) because I feel that it is important to have the different arguments next to one another and commented on by someone who is more neutral than I can be. Unless we resolve these issues, I believe that they will continue to poison the debate on many, many articles concerning the Països Catalans, to the detriment of the promotion of Catalan (and Valencian :) culture to an English-speaking audience. I am sure that that most, if not all, editors are acting in good faith, but we seem to hare a common goal and it seems sad that our misunderstandings get in the way of that. Physchim62 (talk) 13:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Request for mediation
I have filed a Request for Mediation concerning the article. The issues for which I have requested mediation are: If you feel that there are other issues which require mediation, you may add them in the "Additional issues to be mediated" section.
 * Should the header to the infobox contain the Spanish name of the region as well as the Valencian/Catalan name?
 * Should the lead section contain the comment: "Valencian (as Catalan is known in this territory)"?
 * Should the the proportions of the Valencian flag used in this article be 1:2 or 2:3?

If you agree to formal, non-binding mediation on these issues, please sign on the RfM page. I hope that you will agree, as mediation will be impossible without your help.

Best wishes, Physchim62 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

He presentat una petició de mediació sobre l'article. Les disputes per les quals he preguntat la mediació són: Si volguessis discutir altres assumptes sobre l'article, les pots afegir en la secció "Additional issues to be mediated" de la pàgina de RfM.
 * Comunidad Valenciana hauria d'aparèixer en el cap de l'infobox de la mateixa manera que Comunitat Valenciana?
 * El commentari ""Valencian (as Catalan is known in this territory)" hauria d'aparèixer en la primera secció?
 * Les proporcions de la Senyera valenciana serien 1:2 o 2:3?

Si acceptes aquesta mediació formal i no-constrenyedora, et prego de firmar a la pàgina de RfM. Espero que accepteràs perquè la mediació no serà possible sense la teva ajuda.

Disculpe'm pel meu català! Physchim62 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Catalonia
Segurament tens raó ...jo també he estudiat i el terme own language no és gaire usat però...és la traducció oficial de l'estatut, se suposa que hauria de ser correcta i entendible, no? pq sino vaja traductors!! :)

en tot cas regarded as...almenys jo ho tradueixo com "vist com"...i no se, ho trobo una expressio una mica massa subjectiva. Tot i així cap problema en si ho vols revertir/canviar d'expressió...entenc el que comentes —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GillesV (talk • contribs) 16:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC). ah, perdona! Ho havia posat a la teva pàgina d'usuari en comptes de la de discussió sense voler, ja ho he revertit, estic una mica espés avui!--GillesV 16:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Economy of Brazil
Economy of Brazil article is in need of attention, you can help?  Fe li pe  ( talk ) 19:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Many sources

 * Banco Central do Brasil
 * BCB in English
 * Economy and finance
 * Exchange and Foreign Capital
 * Museum of Money


 * Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatística
 * IBGE in English
 * Brazil in Summary (Portuguese)
 * GDP 2006


 * World Bank
 * Brazil in Wolrd Bank
 * Infrastructure in Brazil (I)
 * Infrastructure in Brazil (II)
 * Brazil Country Brief


 * Government
 * Government official site in English
 * About Brazil
 * Indicators
 * Investments, Infrastructure and partnerships
 * Importing and Exporting
 * Programs
 * Brazilian Exporters
 * Foreign Trade
 * Ministry of External Relations
 * Sustainable growth
 * The green revolution
 * Labor and employment
 * Infrastructure
 * Science and technology
 * Tourism
 * Foreign affairs


 * Other
 * Brazil Trade Net
 * Economic News of Brazil (Portuguese)
 * Financial Indicators (Portuguese)
 * Reuters
 * Reuters Brazil (Portuguese)
 * Bovespa in English
 * Goldman Sachs BRIC Report
 * Latin Focus

On the language, you it can write what to prefer. I understand all the three languages, but write English and Spanish in the intermediate level.  Fe li pe  ( talk ) 18:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Talk:Economy of Brazil  Fe li pe  [[Image:BRAlogo1.png|15px]] ( talk ) 17:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Addition in North America
Hello Dúnadan, I'm Alex (editing from an anon. IP). Would you please give your opinion in this ? I'm trying to include the notion that North America is also a subcontinent in the single American continent model. Thanks. AlexCovarrubias 11:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You will be reported
As the dissambiguation of Catalonia explains, "This article is about the autonomous community. See also Principality of Catalonia (for the historic territory) and Northern Catalonia."

You keep reverting us to keep "is a region in the north-east of the Iberian peninsula which formed the most populous part of the medieval Crown of Aragon and which is now an autonomous community within Spain" and "The historical territory of the Principality of Catalonia also included most of what is now the French département of the Pyrénées-Orientales, ceded to France by the Treaty of the Pyrenees in 1659" in the lead paragraph which are clearly not belonging to this article.

You keep reverting each and every user who wants to edit this article even if you have to make use of WP:3RR ([], [] and []), to neglige Assume good faith ([]), which also means I suffered a WP:NPA here (([]), and you are pushing WP:OOA to the extreme of not letting other users to freely edit, monopolizing the articles in which you are present.

For this reason I'm reporting you to the admins. --Maurice27 07:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

RE: Mormons/Mexico
Hi -- yes, I will mediate. (Forgive me delay in replying.) Please advise on process, next steps ... Corticopia 17:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * OK; I will weigh in today or tomorrow. Corticopia 18:20, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Harassment
Just FYI, I consider this:" "Request for Mediation

...

Request for Mediation

...

Request for Mediation

...""

harassment. So, please stop. --FateClub 19:24, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, 1) those three messages have the exact same content, 2) which request to sign the petition for mediation in seven days. Now, I will assume good faith and ask you: Is there a reason for a second R4M message? How about a third one? --FateClub 19:44, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I don't think I received an answer for any of my above questions, so I am going to move forward and get passed this. I am not rejecting a discussion, what I am uncomfortable with is these "reminders", which I consider unnecessary. I hope we can manage without them. --FateClub 20:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Professional discussion requires at least two professional parties, not just me, in this case. These types of comments, "If you believe your proposals wouldn't stand scrutiny, then it makes sense that you rejected", same type I have read from you in the last few days, make me not want to spend much time discussing at all. If you agree to avoid ill-mannered comments like those, I am willing to participate in the discussion with you and your acquaintances (Hari and Corticopia). At this point, my impression is that your winning an argument, even if with the use of sarcasm, has higher importance than the quality and impartiality of the article. --FateClub 20:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * <> How about "I apologize that my repetitively posting the same content on your page has bothered you>> would be an option. That is, if you are taking suggestions at this point.
 * Thank you for explaining the Mediation process to me. I was not aware of such requirements. --FateClub 21:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Economy of Mexico FAC
Hey, just wanted to let you know I've added a few comments to the FAC. Feel free to ignore them, I know zero about this sort of thing, but perhaps that's a good thing? Anyway, let me know if there's anything I can do to help. All the best... The Rambling Man 17:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Mediation for Mexico
I was planning on just giving it an additional day or so, if still no response, then close it as rejected. Pending wouldn't get an indefinite extension at all. ^ demon [omg plz] 01:37, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Help in dispute resolution
This is not a matter of mediation whatsoever. It is simply a case of ownership and personal attacks. I've blocked him for a week. ^ demon [omg plz] 15:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And I would be grateful if you could consider an ArbCom request for the various disputes. Physchim62 (talk) 15:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Metropolitan Area of Mexico
Infobox Metropolitan Area of Mexico, which you created. is not used by any article. Do you intend to use it, or shall we delete it? Andy Mabbett 20:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I do intend to use it. Please do not delete it. -- the D únadan 23:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, no problem. I suggest you put a note on its talk page, to that effect. Andy Mabbett 05:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Commentary?
I'm unsure if you want to weigh in here, but please do if compelled to. Thanks. Corticopia 05:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Mexico City
My apologies for incorrectly changing the term Mexicas to Mexicans in this article, and thanks for the education on the topic. 24.68.249.197 22:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

There is.
There is sources against it.   This one says how Native American DNA testing is not very reiable at all because Southern Europeans have the same Markers.

Sorry Buddy. Here

http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/(SICI)1522-2683(19990101)20:8<1733::AID-ELPS1733>3.0.CO;2-X

For the last one please copy and paste into your browser there seems to be some sort of error. Etherroyal 02:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You have to copy and paste the whole link all the way from the X to the Http:. Anyways Seems you are misread the information. It says 19 precent of the the people who had Ameridian ancestry had a 1.5 to 84.5 precent contriubtion level. So indeed 80 precent of Argentines are white. Actually it does mention the UBA the study was done by Daniel Corach the same scienist who did the UBA it seems he changed his mind. Not only that, but Native American Testing is considered Faulty at best. If you read the other article I gave you clearly it shows how sciencist thought that there were such things as Native American Markers and they could even dectect what tribe you have come from, but this is proved to be not true. Native American markers as they put it are found all over the world and are especially present in Southern Europe were most Argentines are from, further discrediting the source. Thank You. Etherroyal 03:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

You should really read that study it is facinating. It says very clearly what sciencist believe like the study of the UBA and what is the truth. In fact All Native American "Markers" For example how many Southern Europeans have these Native American Markers but does that make them Native Americans? No of course not. Normally I would agree that we cannot say this applies the Southern native Americans but the Article makes very clear this applies to all Native Americans as it says sciencist have tried to group different Native American tribes, by genetic ancestry but it points out the flaws in that. Etherroyal 03:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not a theory it is a proven fact. I have taken the liberity to even E-mail Marks and has confirmed this information with me. The article mentions spefically how ALL Native Americans north or South have been treated unfairly because sciencist believe there are actual differences between Northern and Southern Native Americans but in truth there arent. I am sorry Native Americans means just that America is not just the USA. Many do not like when you say that either. Anyways, besides the point, I am not talking about just Argentina I am talking about Genetic tests in general for all Native Americans or just to prove Native American ancestry. If you think that there is not biological proof then your mistaken it lists all the Markers that are found in other people all round the world. Etherroyal 03:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

No, Native Americans is the proper word to refer to all of those who are of Indigenious descent. You are saying it is a theory however the article makes certain it is NOT. That is not true the article makes clear why sciencist continue to test for Native American ancestry. If you can prove that this article is not a theory then I will agree, but it is not infact it supports it self with a wide amount of genetic studies and what sciencist believe. They say this country because Marks is from the USA. He however makes clear you cannot tell a Native American from any part of the Americas. The DNA tests and Markers are all there the site is backed up by good science and if you check other articles on the site they have memebers from both North and South America. National Geographic has also been critized by Biocolonism, in fact they have many article on the subject. Anyways we are getting off subject. Etherroyal 03:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, have you really read the article?, because the article explains very clearly why scientist continue to use DNA testing to determine Native American ancestry. So this is not theory, they explain quiet clearly why it is not. Again you say you are not misunderstanding the information, but you are because I never said it was ALL Native American DNA testing. The source says, Native American DNA testing. Personally, it seems you have not bothered to read the information. So, I will not discuss this any further since this has been accepted by others on Wikipedia, Which is all that matters. I just wanted to share it with you to inform you, but it seems you have already made your mind up. Which is sad. Thank you and Good Night. Etherroyal 04:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I am a Genetic Biologist. I have practiced it for many years and this is not the first time I have heard of such things. Again, I am tried of trying to convice you. How many times must I tell you It is not DNA testing there for "Nonetheless, a group of scientists disagree with the use of Genetic Markers to determine ethnicity." this sentence would not work! It is Native American DNA testing to determine Ancestry. Also, you misunderstood, I was not talking about the article directly with the user you misunderstood. We were talking about the article which the concesus was reached. I have been trying to tell you that information will has and will be debated on another article but not this one. That will be all. Thank you. Etherroyal 04:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

ok. Thank you. Etherroyal 04:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello Dúnadan. After viewing you comment on Talk:Argentina I feel compelled to advise you that I am certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this Etherroyal and DoubleNine are sockpuppets of XGustaX. Have a look at this. He is really a piece of work... Have fun! Mariokempes 19:01, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for arbitration
A request for arbitration has been filed concerning the articles Catalonia and Valencian Community. You may, if you wish, make a statement as to whether this request should be accepted or not, although the final decision rests with the Arbitration Committee. Physchim62 (talk) 16:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversial matters for the Request for arbitration
I have created a page where we can all expose our controversial matters in each of the articles filled in the request for arbitration. You are invited to contribute in it in order to explain our POVs to the comittee in a clear way. --Maurice27 13:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Chapultepecaerea.PNG
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Image:Chapultepecaerea.PNG, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Image:Chapultepecaerea.PNG fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason: page now at commons, where we're working out copyright issues To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:Chapultepecaerea.PNG, please affix the template  to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 19:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

demographics
I know we have been building the Argentinian site for like wow three years now. But like always another guy who doesn't bother in read the archive with the previous discussions is changing the section. Dunadan or something like that.

Dunadan we decided included the genetic research (the one you posted is not the only one and other ones contradict this one). Besides we discussed it was made to the entire population (10% of which is not Argentinean-born but immigrants).

You are putting the minority groups that were taken in that research (which was very discussed anyway) into the majority of the population.

Second we (like Americans, brazilians and Canadians) decided not to included the diversed genetic studies because is not relevant, is like said norwegian because they have a 1% of african admixture are not scandinavian!.

Check out the archive of discussions in the Argentinian section, and you'll the other studies too. We just added in the largest article.

As for the article we decided only included the official numbers of the government and the CIA.

As for the research you cited (which is just one of many) with different results, and the ones that are made to white people are the ones that account to have in mind the admixture in white people, which you just seems to included without noticed that the research was made to the inhabitants a great percentage not "Argentines", you're misunderstanding some dates. that was about mtda and y-chromosome not about mixture in dna.

And what the reaserch shows (again there was another research with another very different results) is that 10% have mtda and y-chromosomes form their parent that COULD BE (but not necessary are) compatible with native americans. You can have 80% european descendents and come out with these results, and anyway, the markers taken as native american are presented in a minority of southern europeans (again check out the archive) and are common in Asians (which account for about 1% of the Argentinian inhabitants this days).

And finally because of this and because the phenotipical traits are the most important in the Argentina, the United States etc for race. And they are present in like the census said 95% of the NATIONAL population, those are the numbers important at least in this article.

And again check out the previous discussions in this subject. Americans decided not to included the results of distant native americans ancestries in white people in the main article because of the same reason that we Argentinians didn't because the are many they don't agree with each other and because they are not relevant for this article.

We discussed this several times, user like Pablo Flores, Mariano Cecowski, and many other who help to built the article of our country for years now!!.

So I'm begging you to pay attention to the discussions in the site.

Greetings.

O. Lynch  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.16.20.42 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Catalonia
Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Catalonia. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Catalonia/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Catalonia/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (Talk) 23:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Britannica
Hi mate, I really don't want things to get nasty over the arbitration, as I think it's (the arbitration) probably unhelpful at this stage. My comments on evidence may have seemed a bit brusque because they were made in 40 degree heat on top of a dose of flu, I have now ammended them, without changing the substance.

What I'm talking about regarding your use of sources still stands, here's the Britannica article for example

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9020756/Catalonia

I'm sure you could find a reference in Britannica supporting the fact the Catalonia is deemed a nationality by the government, and you have, but if you read the main article of our ostensible competitor, the term is not mentioned. This is what I mean by selective use of sources, you take a small inconsequential detail and make it a central plank of the article. This is the kind of thing that is messing up the article. Having said that, I would like to say that I am very happy with the way we all sorted it out.

Please don't take this as personal criticism, it is something that one sees a lot on the Cataviqui, and on controversial topics in general.

Boynamedsue 08:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, did you post the source from the printed Britannica, so we can see it with context? Genuine question, I want a look.

Boynamedsue 07:56, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Aug 13th, my lucky number.

thanks for the congrats



Boynamedsue 10:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Evidence size
Hello Dúnadan. Could you please trim the evidence you're presented at Requests for arbitration/Catalonia/Evidence to within 2000 words total, approximately 1000 for evidence and 1000 for responses to evidence provided by others? (I currently get over 6000 words total.) The arbitrators are more likely to read your evidence thoroughly and be convinced by what you're saying when there isn't too much to read. If you need help figuring out what to trim, please ask. Thanks, Picaroon (t) 18:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

AD HOMINEM
Reading the WP:Etiquette you gave me (WP:No_personal_attacks) I've found this: "Accusing someone without justification of making personal attacks is also considered a form of personal attack". I've readed a lot today and I'm lost, but I've observed your excesive use (near to abuse) of "ad hominem" in a lot of your comments around. My opinion is that you use the "ad hominem" as ad hominem argument to intimidate. But it's just my opinion, Eristical Evidence. You're more informed than me about the Wikipedia rules and protocols: you're involved in a lot of questions reclaming administrators attention. How can we determine if some argument is "ad hominem"? Requests for arbitration? Thanks for the info. --Owdki 07:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Interpreting primary sources
... I give value to the Gencat webpage because you gave value before, as we discussed. It's the only explicit definition of Catalonia on the Gencat website, and the Generalitat de Catalunya never could be accused of "spanish-biased". He doesn't use "nation" inside its Catalonia definition. Some of you want to put it in the Catalonia definition (article).

But going to interpretations, here is an explicit example:. Well, you've changed something before our past discussion. You did the right thing acting. Thanks.

But now, again and as I pointed here, you're "interpreting" the source.

You added: "The autonomous community of Catalonia exercises its self-government that the Spanish Constitution guarantees to it as a nationality". The Generalitat de Catalunya hasn't the courage to write that: they know it's not true. I see your changes totally biased. We are not talking about a spanish biased source, Dúnadan: we are talking about the Generalitat de Catalunya. And you can ask them "Why the insistence on eliminating a constitutional and statutory definition?".

Can you put the source for that sentence? Or is your own wording? In that case you are mixing sources, Gencat+Constitution. Ask yourself: why doesn't the Generalitat do that (wording in that way)? Is the Generalitat eliminating the fact that Catalonia is also recognized as a "nationality"?

Now go to the Gencat webpage again an read:


 * "Catalonia is an autonomous community and exercises its self-government in accordance with the Constitution and with the Statute of Autonomy, which is its basic institutional law..."

What's amazing is that you are subtracting its value as source. Why didn't use the entire text? Why don't you respect the "verbatim"?.

Another incoherence is the article's title: Catalonia here, Catalonia there, and the real Catalonia there (autonomous community). Joan sense nick didn't talk there as here, demanding the same rationale.

I'm simply appealing to coherence.

Another example: Sitges. "Sitges (Latin: Blanca Subur) (pronunciation: ['sɪdʒəs] in IPA), Catalonia, is a small city about 40 kilometers south west of Barcelona..."

Well, isolated concept again, out of Spain hierarchy. Systematically hiding the real hierarchy of concepts. Information processing. I've seen that GillesV has edited there, and knowing the "the gravity of the situation" may have helped adding the "Spain" concept. Perhaps he did not give importance to this fact. Then, have we begin to discuss about if Sitges is in Catalonia, Spain or "Catalonia, Spain"? Spending time, work, effort, energy when an universal method given by the common sense is the real solution.

The "catalan identity" has the importance that it has: no more no less. You can't elevate this importance to a level which everything is written up, structured and organized around this identity. And this doesn't mean that the catalan identity has to be hidden. --Owdki talk 03:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

A question
Please, Dúnadan, could you answer this question?

Thanks. --Owdki talk 16:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Catalonia closed
The above arbitration case has closed. Maurice27 is banned for 30 days, and the parties to the underlying content disputes are encouraged to continue with the normal consensus-building process to produce high-quality articles. For the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 02:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Re Where is Mexico?
Hello Dúnadan,

About ten days ago I wandered into the discussion about the Mexico article (re the first 2 sentences of the Geography section) and you had some very helpful comments.

The discussion is still going on, but it might be close to a decision by vote. I don't know if you are interested enough in the matter to take a look. It is right at the bottom of Talk:Mexico.

(You will recognize the names of some of the editors involved in this debate.)

Thank you, Wanderer57 20:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I have replied to your comment on the Mexico talk page. I want to make sure you read it, so I'll paste it here:
 * Dúnadan, please note that THIS debate was opened by Wanderer57. Both you and Corticopia replied to his comments and then Corticopia, on the sole basis of his and Wanderer's opinion decided to change the paragraph that was elected by consensus months ago. If Supaman, JC and I followed the debate was because Corticopia refused to mantain the previous version, arguing that it was changed "per talk". Check the history of the page. Alex  Covarrubias  ( Talk? ) 03:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Corticopia agreed to change the consensual version on the basis of TWO opinions only. But now, after the debate is close to an end, and that almost all the involved editors agrees with one version, he suddenly changes his mind and want to invalidate the debate with ad hominem arguments. Please tell me you do see the big picture here, don't you? Alex  Covarrubias  ( Talk? ) 03:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for participating in the discussions at Brazil's talk page. Felipe C.S ( talk ) 18:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Toponomy of Mexico section
Hello Dúnadan. Since you created and improved the article Toponomy of Mexico I'm here to ask for you help. I'm trying to format the article Mexico to meet the requierments of GA. The toponomy section seems to be too long and I'd would like you edit it and make it shorter.

You are the most qualified person to sumarize the content of the main article in that section. I hope you have the time to do this request. Thanks in advance for your response.  Alex C.  ( Talk? )  00:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * When the article Mexico failed to be promoted as a GA, I was told to try to make the article structure look like the already GA, so I was looking at articles such as Canada. I'm not sure about the section demographics, because looked very lenghty to me (take Canada as an example). As for the Economics section, I didn't change it at all.  Alex C.  ( Talk? )  04:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

In case you're interested
You seem to do a lot of great work on Wikipedia, so I thought you might be willing to take a look at Castilian Spanish (which I recently discovered didn't even have a page) and see if there's some useful info on the es.wikipedia article. My Spanish is terrible, but the page over there sub-divides it into "northern" Castilian Spanish and maybe you have some insight on how to handle the English page. BTW, re Demography of Mexico and the "American" issue, I simply forgot to add the qualifier. I know it can be a sore issue for some people. :) Nualran 20:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Correccions
Hola Dúnadan, desesperat, sense saber ja quins recursos usar, desmoralitzat i sense ganes de començar una discussió (prou que saps) improductiva en els 15 (és un dir) fronts oberts que tinc (o tindria si em dediqués a fer com ell: revertir per afició o per ofici) amb en Maurice27, he decidit demanar ajuda als administradors perquè posin pau. I mira, si decideixen que el català és un dialecte del castellà però que el valencià per contra és una llengua, en aquests moments ja me la rebufa. Tanmateix, estic ara molt cansat i com que darrerament degut a la influència de l'alemany em sembla que el meu anglès passa per hores baixes, hi ha frases que no sé si són gaire comprensibles. Si li dónes un cop d'ull per tal de fer-ho entenedor (no correcte, només entenedor) em faràs un favor. Apa, gràcies i salut!--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 06:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

You're amazed again
Meanwhile, all of you go first and doing.

You can think that I follow you in the dark, in a mad effort, swimming... crossing a great oceanic division till arriving to Viquipèdia. You can think that I have to cross the hyper(POV)space going from the Galactic Republic to the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Like a screenplay for TV3, a fictional serie about wikiprocess of national construction: something like a catalan "WikiClone Wars" (clones, sockpuppets, editors jedi, editors sith, and some separatist battle droid removing 'spain-spanish-etc' from articles).

But as I told you, I'm a Viquipèdia user, a viquireader. And, Dúnadan, I could answer you "as the same as you follow our conversations all the way to Wikipedia". Anyway it is done. You have precipitated (with some lapses, f.e. the title 'Questions form Dúnadan'). And may be you didn't think what exteriorizes, at least for me. Once again it looks like a chase. But now the ArbCom is in the background: you don't assume the ArbCom resolution, they don't "handled the issue properly". You are the good ones. Bad guys are the rest. Few days ago Maurice27. Now it's time for Physchim62. May be tomorrow will be my day once again.

You're free to ask whatever to Physchim62. But I think it is not ethical, because it could hide an intention: to harm him. Might be it disruptive, Dúnadan? What do you want (all of you)? Ban me? Ban Maurice27? Erase Physchim62? Cut Mountolive? Hang Boynamedsue? Discharge the ArbCom? Put IradiBot to work in the english wikipedia? Ban every new user who after read the current Catalonia-related articles (if he survives), decides to change something???? Since my first day in the wikipedia I've been tasting it.

I'm now in a vivacissimo tempo. And the Catalonia-related articles are still hyperbiased. All of you are doing a good job. Keep on besieging people.

Regards, Dúnadan. --Owdki talk 17:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I need to get out the vivacissimo to read your words. I see things I could discuss... but calmly (this is not the moment). I'll reflect and I'll do my part. --Owdki talk 01:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Després d'anar a escampar la boira I was coming to answer you, thinking about "obrir portes" instead "tancar". But... I've seen the panorama and I'm thinking about going to a escampar la boira again. Dúnadan, what are you playing (all of you)? When I came here, sincerely, you showed me the piggest face of the Wikipedia, the opposite of "happy editing". Please, remember, remember, remember, REMEMBER: I've been blocked. My block log is not empty. I've found bad faith before. Instead of thinking "Owdki is not stupid. Wikipedia is an intuitive tool, and it's a well designed system", you thought "every new user must be stupid, dumb and a dummy, and Owdki is a sarcastic dumb dummy, but he knows how to run this complex and badly designed tool. He has "striking similarities between the sarcasm/ad hominem arguments" with user Maurice27 and possibly Boynamedsue, ergo he's a sockpuppet". Huh! Behind me, while I was editing like a dumb in the talk page. And your eristical comments: all but answering me. Then I understood that "and/or Maurice27", because at those moments I didn't know the fuckin meaning of WP:ETIQUETTE, WP:SOCK, WP:RFAR, WP:SOAP, WP:RFC, WP:NAPS, WP:COLS, WP:XEREVIES... And yes... I did read NPOV and almost all the policies at one stroke, under extreme pressure. From the cryptographic wikislang till knowledge. I'm proud: I can say that I've studied wikilaw in wikijail. We are conversing now thanks to anyone else except you. Otherwise I would be banned and thinking about Wikipedia as one of the worst places. D-ú-n-a-d-a-n.


 * Days ago Maurice27, and now definitively Physchim62. And you had the nerve to ask "where do you get the deduction (or extrapolation) that it is my intention to chase and get you guys blocked or "besieged" ( sic )?". If you make use of "sic", you have to reproduce exactly the original, i.e. "besieging". [Besiege + somebody: verb, encalçar].
 * "where do you get"... From where I get it... Please, revise and check your edits. All of you. What you see is what I get.


 * I never said that you want Physchim62 to be blocked.
 * "I do question some of his administrative actions that I think must be addressed and explained"... Is an Election the right place to do this, Dúnadan? You was right: your questions form you, and draw you.
 * Read your Evidences. If you really want to know the reasons of his administrative actions, ask him. If you want to know the ArbCom opinion, ask them. If you think he's a bad administrator and you have "diffs", ask for a desysop (Xtv is working on it, you know). Knowing that you had an affair, being you one of the protagonists, and knowing you think it's still pending... You won't solve it there. If you think Pablo Flores did the right thing, use his ethic and apply it to this case (you should avoid participating due to your POV and your pending business). What do you think about universal ethic-rules? Just dir la teva. Now you are encouraging your fellas to follow you. Osti, tu... quina colla!


 * Obviously, none of you had enough. And I'm sure that you want to see me paying back.


 * Oh! You was called "Statist"! That is terrifying! But very recherché. What about "''españolista, facha, fascista, opresor, genocida...".
 * I knew that. And you know I knew that (I sent you an email). And you answer them "don't call me names, because I believe Catalonia is a Nation". But Dúnadan, what Catalonia?:


 * The Autonomous Community
 * The Països Catalans
 * The entire catalan-speaking region


 * Do you have any other discussion like this in wp:ca before the RFA in wp:en?
 * Do you defend "a capa i espasa" Catalonia (your POV about Catalonia) or the NPOV, Dúnadan? Who want to destroy, hide and vandalize references to the catalan-roots here in wp:en ("volen destruir, amagar i vandalitzar totes les referències a les arrels catalanes de la wiki anglesa")? Don't you see what are you showing? What are catalan-roots for you?
 * Don't you see the homogeneity of wp:ca? What it implies (the homogeneity)? Is there same level of discussion-controversy there as here? Why? Isn't there POV there? Please, search for Catalonia in wp:ca and look the outcome. Is it encyclopedic? Or our first discussion (you didn't answer me being e-r-i-s-t-i-c-a-l, do you remember?) Don't compare wp:en with wp:ca. Because here in wp:en there is diversity, heterogeneity, discussion and opposition. Somebody could define it as "cavern".
 * The Viquipèdia was created in March 16... 2001!!!!. Year 2007: youre discussing if a french guy writing in catalan is french. Very encyclopedic, and it illustrates the current situation. Think about it.


 * Dúnadan, do you know Spain? Do you know Catalonia? Do you know what's going on here? Do you know what means process of national construction? Search about the referendum. Abstention 51,15%. 1.899.897 of 5.310.103 said yes without doubts. One fact: people are fins els collons of politics and national construction. Because politicians are moving it, and there is a process running, far from reality and far from a lot of people. The same in the Basque Country, (plus ETA, yesterday they was killing in France). Think about it.


 * Let me explain something: if you want to see the coast profile, the contour, you cannot observe from the border, placed in land, in the coast itself: you need grab the boat and go far from the land to see the contour, observing it while you go towards the open sea. Be honest with me, Dúnadan. Don't you see the hyperbiased?


 * hyperbiased as above-beyond-super: there is a hyperstructure: can you see it?
 * hyperbiased as excessively-excessive: Catalonia-related articles : embolica que fa fort.


 * Remember somebody talking about... ethnicity!!!! Catalan people? Genetists... work! What happens if you arent "de socarrel", "de ceba"? Xarnegos? Prou!


 * Be honest with me and I'll be honest with you. Fins després. --Owdki talk 08:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

re: Nice Job
The new size looks good, about changing it to two colums why don't you do it and check how it looks, if it looks better then leave it like that, right now I'm kinda busy making the maps for the municipalities of each state, I'm starting with the easy ones but eventually I'll have to get to Oaxaca (570 mn.), here are the ones I'm done with. Supaman89 (talk) 00:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Baja California
 * Baja California Sur
 * Colima
 * Federal District
 * Tlaxcala
 * Quintana Roo

Memorandum of understanding
Hi, I invite you to read this and participate if willing. Cheers, --Maurice27 21:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Bon Nadal!
  You got a Christmas card! → → →