User talk:DHN/2007/Nov

Kho
Hi, can you help answer what the third words mean in cá kho tộ and gà kho gừng? Badagnani 02:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Can the tộ also be the pot used to cook it, as in these photos?

photo 1photo 2

Badagnani 02:35, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

RFC: Country data in Nobel lists
[text copied from above in case you didn't see it before –panda 03:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)]

Thanks for participating in the RFC: Country data in Nobel lists. Please keep in mind that RFCs are not votes, but an attempt to reach consensus. Could you please revisit the RFC and include a rationale with your comment? It would also be helpful if you could answer the question listed under Clarification & Questions related to 3.1 or 3.2. Thanks! –panda 22:37, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Etymology
Do you have any way to find the etymology/Han Tu of this new airport name, for our HK contributor who wants to make an article in the Chinese Wikipedia? See this edit. Badagnani 18:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

To help satisfy User:Sl's other questions, I've created WikiProject Vietnam/Han tu requests. Hopefully Wikipedians with the proper research materials and expertise can add these, as needed. Badagnani 18:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Mì Quảng
Hi, can you possibly make sense of the various ingredient names (roots, etc.) and add English, at Mì Quảng? Badagnani 06:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh bèo
Can you come up with a literal meaning for Bánh bèo? Badagnani 06:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

"Water fern bánh" doesn't seem to make sense. Are you sure it doesn't mean "cheap bánh"? Badagnani 06:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh rế
Would like to make an article for Bánh rế, but there doesn't seem to be anything in English. Can you get anything from vi:Bánh rế? Badagnani 07:09, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, weird--some other articles call it a deep-fried pancake. Sounds like a different thing entirely. Badagnani 07:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

New bánh?
Can you determine what these are? Badagnani 07:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Ha, funny name. They definitely seem crimped, however, like Chinese Jiaozi, rather than rolled like banh cuon or rice noodle roll. Is there a Vietnamese equivalent to jiaozi? Is it giáo tử? Badagnani 07:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

It's discussed elsewhere here. Badagnani 07:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Rice paper
Hi, can you add the Vietnamese name at Rice paper? Badagnani 20:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Pham Cong Tac
Pham Cong Tac needs diacritics. Badagnani 21:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh xu xê
Any idea what the name of this food means? Photo. Badagnani 21:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Nhạc tài tử
Can you give me the literal meaning of Nhạc tài tử? Music + skillful + ? VDict doesn't have tử. Badagnani 00:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--any idea why vi:Wiktionary has tử translated as "dead" or "fourth"? Badagnani 00:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Just curious which han tu "tài tử" come from? Badagnani 00:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks like "amateur" in Chinese is 愛好者. Badagnani 00:41, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice work. Interesting that, like tien si, this ancient scholarly term has been reappropriated and continues to be used in the present day. Badagnani 00:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

One last question: for Nhã nhạc, it follows Chinese order of adjective-noun. But Nhạc tài tử doesn't. To your mind, does this imply that the term Nhạc tài tử was not used at the time Vietnamese was written with Han tu, but that it simply is a word with Chinese etymology? I guess this is a hard one. In any case, now that the mystery is solved, I've made an etymology section and a Wiktionary article for the Chinese term 才子. If anything is wrong, go ahead and fix it. Should I add a Vietnamese definition in the Wiktionary entry for 才子? Badagnani 01:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Should I add bác sĩ as Sino-Vietnamese reading in that Wiktionary entry? Right now it only has Japanese. Badagnani 01:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: your last edit: yes, it just means "amateur" today, but wouldn't the term originally have had the "gifted" or "skilled" connotation, due to its first character, 才, meaning "talent" or "ability" (and that meaning is inherent in the term's etymology, in this context)? That's my gut feeling. Badagnani 01:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh đúc
Would you take a look at Bánh đúc and see if anything needs to be fixed or added? I have a feeling some of the sub-names are a little weird. Badagnani 01:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It's getting complicated. It looks like it's two separate dishes: a white, savory northern one and a gelatinous, sweet southern one. Can you cross-check Bánh đúc with Vietnamese sources? I want to make sure I've gotten things right. Badagnani 05:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Nobel Prize in Chemistry
I don't know if this changes anything but wanted to let you know that I've discovered what the country data is supposed to be. You can find it under the point Country data defined in RFC: Country data in Nobel lists. –panda 15:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

your comments are invited
WP:ANI --emerson7 19:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Vẽ
Can you find any information on a northern Vietnamese form of narrative singing (often done by a man and a woman), which is spoken to a beat, similar to rap? I think it's called "Vẽ." vi:WP has nothing and a Google search seems to pull up other unrelated meanings of the term. Thanks, Badagnani 18:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

To Huu
I was thinking 杜甫 (!) Badagnani 00:31, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, that would be Đỗ Phủ. Badagnani 00:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Ho Chi Minh
I just added the Sino-Vietnamese characters for Ho Chi Minh, but now I'm confused because Wiktionary gives traditional versions of the first two characters, but they don't seem right. The Taiwanese version of zh:WP gives 胡志明, which has the simplified versions of the first two characters. Badagnani 08:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The Nom Foundation's "nom lookup" gives 胡志明. Badagnani 08:45, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

By the way, have you listened to this? I'm listening to it now. Very interesting! Out of 80 million Vietnamese, supposedly only 30 can read nom. Badagnani 08:45, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Four Saint Beasts (Vietnam)
Hi, do you think this is the best translation for the title of this article or is there a more conventional one? Badagnani 21:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Rượu đế
Do you know the literal meaning of Rượu đế? Badagnani 21:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Âu Lạc
I think we need an article about Âu Lạc. Do you know the Hán tự for this? Badagnani 02:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Chữ Nho
The literal meaning of chữ Nho isn't explained--does it mean "Confucian characters"? Badagnani 04:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Two systems
Can you check this edit? Badagnani 04:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Addition
Can you check this edit? Badagnani 05:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Han characters
I'm not sure Vietnamese would have construed the meaning as "Han Dynasty characters" because that's carrying the literal meaning one literal meaning back. "Han" really does literally mean "Chinese" in vernacular usage, since the Han was a founding dynasty thousands of years ago, and quickly came to be applied to the nation/people as a whole, both within and outside China. Badagnani 05:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting that the Koreans call cellophane noodles dangmyeon (唐麵, literally "Tang (Dynasty) noodles"). Badagnani 05:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Really? The heading "Han character" is used in Wiktionary when presenting pronunciations of Hán tự, presumably to avoid implying that the characters are strictly Chinese, as they are being used to render Vietnamese. That's why we don't use "Chinese character" when referring to kanji or hanja. I just think "Han character" is confusing for our readers, because it might imply that the characters were all developed during the Han Dynasty (were they?) The Chinese are also called "Hoa" and maybe some other things. That's why, in most cases, I prefer calling them Hán tự or Sino-Vietnamese characters, except in the explanation in the lead of the Hán tự article, because it's clear from the name that Vietnamese did call them by a name that acknowledged the characters' origin. Badagnani 05:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ming people as in the Ming Dynasty? That's strange. Or 明 as in "brilliant," like in Ho Chi Minh's name? I've only heard Hoa used. Badagnani 05:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Quang Tan Province
Do you have any idea about the Quang Tan Province mentioned in Vietnam in the time of the Second World War? Badagnani 05:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I've seen it in action this evening. :( It looks as if this article were lifted from Britannica or somewhere--the WWI article too. I think some of the editors who operate this way are probably in high school, and don't think through before deleting, usually to prove some point. I'm happy to work with editors, fix English, etc., but I really enjoy it if it's collaborative rather than some kind of battle. Badagnani 05:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Cold Food Festival
Do you know if the Cold Food Festival is celebrated in Vietnam? There is a vi:WP article about it in the interwikis. Badagnani 06:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; is it celebrated primarily by Hoa or also by Viets? And are the tangyuan southern chè xôi nước or northern bánh trôi (the ones described in Ho Xuan Huong's famous poem "I am white and round"? :) Badagnani 06:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

If I make an article about this food, should I put it under the title bánh trôi or bánh chay? It seems to be prepared in a different way than chè xôi nước. Badagnani 06:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

See vi:Bánh trôi - bánh chay Maybe it should have an English article describing both? I've never done that before. The interwikis on the vi: page are weird. Badagnani 06:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Is all bánh trôi served as bánh trôi nước? Badagnani 06:30, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Removal
It's simple. Articles about Vietnamese history should have Vietnamese words and characters only. No one care about what they mean in the stupid Chinese language. 96.229.179.106 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 09:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * On the contrary, a great number of people who are deeply interested in Vietnam's history, really do want to know what the words and names mean. This is called etymology. Just like the English language draws on languages such as Latin, Greek, and German, so too does the Vietnamese language (at least for many Sino-Vietnamese words) draw on the Chinese language for its vocabulary. When relevant, we do use Hán tự, which are just as Vietnamese as the Roman alphabet is American: it's a foreign system of writing adapted to another culture's language. There's no problem with that, and the Vietnamese didn't have a problem with it either, for well over 1,500 years of history. Badagnani 09:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

User:NapoleonQuang
Can you have a look at his copyvios please? He isn't listening in anyway. Thanks,  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 04:19, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * He seems also to post under the IP 96.229.179.106. Badagnani 04:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Now blocked. Badagnani 04:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Jícama
Does vi:WP have an article about Jícama? I'm always trying to explain this common Vietnamese food to Vietnamese, and no matter how well I describe it they always look at me strangely and can't figure out what it's called. Badagnani 08:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Is it cû dâu, củ đậu, or củ sắn? Badagnani 08:24, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, boy! Did you already know all that or did you look it up? Badagnani 08:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's a vi:WP article about this food. But there should be. Badagnani 08:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It must be called "bean tuber" (isn't that what "củ đậu" translates as?) because it's in the bean family, Fabaceae. Another English name for jicama is "yambean." That probably means that in this case the northern name is more scientific and the southern name is folk or corrupted term. In any case, the linguistic differences are quite interesting! Badagnani 08:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Lợn and heo -- I've just learned that one. :) Badagnani 09:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh canh
Can you add all necessary diacritics at Bánh canh? Badagnani 19:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Cam sành
Can you add anything you can find from your knowledge or Vietnamese sources about Cam sành (especially where it's grown)? It's supposed to be a famous agricultural product of Vietnam. Badagnani 22:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Cơm rượu
Can you confirm that the photo I just added is cơm rượu? Badagnani 02:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Now I see from another photo from the same set which shows the label that it is. Badagnani 02:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Unknown
Any idea what this dessert is? Badagnani 02:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems like not enough heavy things in the bottom, just a few strips of things floating in the liquid. Badagnani 05:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Alternate spelling for tofu?
In the box at Tofu, should we add the alternate spelling tàu hũ? Badagnani 06:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Bột lọc trong
Hi, can you tell me what Bột lọc trong means? It seems to be translated sometimes as "Tang flour," which doesn't make sense. Badagnani 06:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Nhúm
Thanks, one more: what does nhúm mean? It's not in VDict. Is it a "pinch"? Badagnani 06:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Is this accurate? Badagnani 06:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Problem
The anon is removing Hán tự again, very assiduously, and no one has reverted. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/96.229.179.106. I'm getting very tired so could you help? Badagnani 07:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah he is, lots of articles. It's in the link above. Badagnani 08:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's just this one. Badagnani 08:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Tomato sauce
Can you check http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/n%C6%B0%E1%BB%9Bc_x%E1%BB%91t_c%C3%A0_chua ? Badagnani 08:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It pulls up a few hits. Badagnani 08:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you think we should remove it, we can do that. But I just got a cookbook from Vietnam and it has bilingual recipes in both Vietnamese and English, and it translates it as "tomato ketchup." Badagnani 09:07, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Bánh rán
In the Flickr photos I see of Bánh rán (such as the one I've just added to our article), I see many fewer sesame seeds than on the southern-style bánh cam I know. Is it accurate to say that the northern one uses fewer (or no) sesame seeds? Some of the Flickr photos show no sesame seeds. Badagnani 18:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Daylilies
Can you check this entry? Badagnani 18:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I just added an etymology. I think, rather, that it's a Vietnamized version of the characters that appear on the package: 金針花, with the "hoa" switched to be up front. Badagnani 19:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Eggplant
Is eggplant cà or cà tím? My cookbook lists it just as cà but vi:WP has cà tím. And does "tomato" literally mean "sour eggplant" or is cà simply used as a classifier for Solanum vegetables? Badagnani 19:10, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Tàu hũ ki
Thanks for the above. In the puffed gluten called tàu hũ ki, what does the "ki" mean? VDict doesn't explain. Badagnani 20:31, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Really? The first two syllables are so similar to dau phu that I can tell those are just a different pronunciation of that word. I cannot for the life of me determine what ky might have been in Cantonese. Any ideas? Badagnani 05:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I see at Tofu skin that this food is called in Chinese "fǔ pí" (腐皮). Perhaps "ki"/"ky" is a corruption of "pi"? The Nôm Foundation gives bì, bề, vừa, bầy, bìa, and vào as possible readings for 皮. Badagnani 05:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Hà phấn
There's a new addition to Pho that says the old name was "hà phấn." Is that true and does this refer to the noodle or the dish? If the dish originated in northern Vietnam, how did it get a Cantonese name? Were there also Cantonese in Hanoi? I know there are many in the south. Badagnani 17:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The name Hà phấn sounded so similar to he fen that I assumed it came from that Cantonese term. Apparently sheets of noodles made from rice flour were invented in Shahe, Guangzhou in the 19th century. It is also possible that "he fen" became converted to "Hanoi noodles" via nationalism, the way "French fries" became "freedom fries." It would sell better in Vietnam if given a name that sounded more Vietnamese, I suppose. But, as you say, we can only go with the sources we have, and which are reliable. Badagnani 18:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The Nôm Foundation gives "phở" as one of the readings of that character. Badagnani 18:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Rau dền đỏ
Can you determine if rau dền đỏ is Amaranthus tricolor? Badagnani 20:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Saw-edge herb
Hi, I'd like to add alternate Viet names for saw-edge herb, at the Eryngium foetidum article. This article from Viet WP seems to have two extra names. Can you evaluate these and either add them to the Eryngium foetidum or let me know? Thanks, Badagnani 01:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you evaluate these three names? We only have "ngo gai" in the Culantro article so far. Badagnani 21:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Ngò xắt
Can you determine what plant ngò xắt is? Badagnani 06:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It's from my new Vietnamese/English cookbook, some of which is poorly translated. The full text is "2 cây ngò xất nhỏ," which is translated as "2 sprigs diced parsley." I don't think parsley is traditional so if you think it means cilantro, I'm going to pencil that change into the cookbook. Badagnani 06:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

That's funny; over the past 15-20 years cilantro has become easy to find, at least in North America. Badagnani 07:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly, sometimes the mistranslation is in the Vietnamese; in one recipe the English calls for dried red dates (which I presume are jujubes), but the Vietnamese is given as trái chà lá rather than táo tàu. Badagnani 07:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

One more question: what does the "gai" in ngò gai mean? Badagnani 07:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, so when using it in phở or whatever, northerners call culantro "mùi ngò gai"? Badagnani 07:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Translation
The cookbook also translates "chuk-san" (which I think must be a Cantonese romanization for 竹笙) as "măng khô" ("dried bamboo shoots?") which I think is wrong. I don't know if 竹笙 is known in Vietanmese cuisine, though I suppose it is, if only from Chinese immigrants eating it and serving it in their restaurants. Badagnani 06:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Seeds
Can you determine the species name for this seed? Badagnani 07:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Another photo:. Badagnani 07:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

My friend in HCM doesn't know exactly where they come from or the species name either. Badagnani 20:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Etymology of cauliflower
Do you know the etymology of "hoa lơ" (flower ?) Badagnani 20:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

But "chou" doesn't sound like "lơ." Do you have any idea where the "lơ" came from? Badagnani 21:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

"Fleur" must be translated as "hoa." Is "lơ" used in place of "fleur" in any other terms? Because then the Vietnamese term would mean "Flower flower." Badagnani 21:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I see that "lơ" is similar to the end of the French word "fleur" but why wouldn't they, as the Chinese do, put two syllables together to more accurately represent the French word--like "phơ-lơ"? Or was it just easier to keep it just one syllable? Badagnani 21:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Bok choy
I want to add the Vietnamese name for bok choy at Cuisine of Vietnam; do you know the name? Badagnani 20:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

All the Google hits are pulling up daikon. There's no Sino-Vietnamese term equivalent to "boy choy" (i.e. "white vegetable")? Or is that the confusion, because daikon is a white radish? Badagnani 21:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Google is pulling up "Cải bẹ trắng," "Cải thìa," and "cải Bok Choy." Badagnani 21:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

"Cải trắng" might also be used, but this term is so general that it seems to refer to other vegetables as well. Badagnani 21:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Alternate term for cauliflower?
Is "bông cải trắng" also used for cauliflower? Which context is this term used in, as opposed to "hoa lơ"? Badagnani 21:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The Engrish article gives "Makudonarudo" for McDonald's. Badagnani 21:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Syllables
That is fascinating. Do we have a WP article presenting the number of possible syllablic blocks in each language of the world? Badagnani 21:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--do the 6,200 possible syllabic blocks in Vietnamese include different tones? Badagnani 21:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Ớt xanh
Does ớt xanh refer to the green bell pepper or to green hot chili pepper? Badagnani 22:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

So that means it could mean either. I'll make the change at Wiktionary. Badagnani 22:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

檬粉
Do you have any idea why zh:WP calls Phở 檬粉? Badagnani 18:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Ran is the best at en:WP and I already asked him. He has no idea either. Badagnani 19:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Huynh Sanh Thong
This name needs diacritics. Badagnani 10:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

vi:Rượu sim
I just found vi:Rượu sim. Is this a common wine in Vietnam? I think it should have an article on English Wikipedia. I assume it's rice wine infused with or fermented together with Asian mulberry fruits. Badagnani 22:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Đàn tranh
Hi, is the first character given in Đàn tranh accurate? I think it must just be a clever phonetic rendering in Chinese of the Vietnamese name, using "sandalwood" as the first syllable. In Chinese the equivalent instrument is just called 筝 or 古筝. Further, I would support moving the character to an "etymology" section, not having it in the lead unless it was a historical personage or event commonly associated with a set of hán tự. Badagnani 22:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, so do you regard the term given in the Đàn tranh article (檀箏) as simply the Chinese transliteration of đàn tranh, and not a modern (or historical) term used for the instrument in Vietnam? Badagnani 22:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not seeing 檀箏 except in mirrors of the Wikipedia article. I think this term was added in error. Badagnani 22:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)