User talk:DaGizza/Archive/16

Hinduism
Hey Gizza, Happy New Year, in the past the size of the Hinduism article has kept me away from it but now I think I'll take a look and try and improve it. Could you please update the to-do list with problems the article needs to overcome at present?  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 00:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Prayer's answered ?
Seems like your prayers to Ganesha are bearing fruit with the recent drive to trim the Hinduism page rather than adding more details to it. Good job !

I wonder though, how long it will take for another editor to come along and add back the long explanations because he/she thinks that (1) nobody working on the page knew/had thought of those concepts earlier, and (2) those additions are the most important ideas in Hinduism and no article on the religion would be complete without them (3) and additional 1-2Kb would not hurt.

Will need Ganesha's help both short- and long-term. :-) Abecedare 04:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Happy new year, by the way. Abecedare 04:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to reply to the message you had left yesterday, so here goes: No, I am certainly not an abecedarian, ; quite the opposite in fact, holding human knowledge and potential for knowledge in highest regards. As for whether I am an Hindu ? Would depend upon ones definition - so I typically try to avoid labeling my (and others') beliefs and identity, since such labels tend to confine/fence-off ones own thoughts and self-image, and possibly encourage group-identification/prejudice (see some excellent research on the topic by Mahzarin Banaji and try testing yourself). Sorry for a complicated response to a simple query ! :-) Abecedare 17:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your support
Thank you for your support in the RfA on my behalf. It is an honor to have received your expression of confidence. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. It is my wish that I will continue to deserve your confidence. Sincerely, --BostonMA talk 19:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Great work on Hinduism
Hi Gizza, Great Great work you're doing with the Hinduism article. I backed off from editing there when I found that the long side-issue discussions were taking too much of my limited time, and then I found that it was more effective (and fun) to focus on a few smaller articles at a time. And now I see that the article is in great hands, being edited well, trimmed down just as I was once suggesting, and with a great spirit of cooperation. Good job, and thanks. &#2384; Priyanath talk 02:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

ॐ गं गणपतये नमः - Blessings to all who join in this shared work. -- Buddhipriya Buddhipriya 07:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Could I ask some questions about Hinduism?
I understand if you are too busy being an administrator.--Filll 22:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope I do not say anything offensive so please bear with me. I know next to nothing about Hinduism. Sorry for so many questions. I really know nothing at all and I am just trying to understand.--Filll 22:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Are there different sects of Hinduism?
 * Do these sects get along?
 * How prevalent is the notion that the Vedic creation story actually is true in Hinduism and in India?
 * Are there ever any charges that Vedic science is pseudoscience?
 * Is the ISKCON a non Hinduism sect? Are they nondoctrinal ? Fringe?
 * Are there ISKCON representatives or Hinduism believers who are similar to ISKCON in India or in mainstream Hinduism?
 * How different are the beliefs of ISKCON from Hinduism as a whole? And in what ways?
 * What is Hindutva? Are they connected with Hinduism in any way?
 * Why did the US state department issue concerned reports about Hindutva's influence on school textbooks in India?
 * Who is a Hindutva and who is not? How can one tell the difference?
 * Who is Swami Prakashanand Saraswati? Is he well known?

Thank you so much for answering. I hope I did not offend and I do not want to offend in any way shape or form. Permit me to ask a few more questions then:

Roughly what fraction of Hindus would you find who claimed, based on Vedic scriptures or teachings: --Filll 23:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "I believe that man was alive at the same time as dinosaurs",
 * "I believe that the earth is more than 5 billion years old,"
 * "I believe that man does not evolve physically with time"
 * "I believe that my ancestors were NOT rat-like creatures, and before that lizards, and before that fish, and before that primitive sea creatures"
 * "I believe all living creatures on earth do not have the same ancestors"
 * "I believe the earth has been through multiple cycles of rebirth and men were recreated each cycle"
 * "Man is descended from demigods and goddesses at the start of each cycle"
 * "the following are sciences: astrology, vastu, yogic flying, Vedic creationism, transcendental meditation or ayurveda."
 * Would agree with
 * would agree with
 * would agree with

Your Swastika reverts

 * I'm fully aware the swastika means different things to the Hindu people than to Jews. However, it's my hope that you will agree that the Aum is far more major of a symbol than the swastika, and does not have the same affiliation for Europeans as the swastika does. With that in mind, I believe it is therefore more encyclopedic when addressing general Hindu issues. Also - what leads you to believe I am a Jew? I ask kindly that you return the Aum and discuss it further on the template pages. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 00:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: I've created and uploaded a red version of the 'aum' symbol, to use the red color you mentioned as being more auspicious for Hindus than the black of the original 'Aum.png'. I'm hopeful you will see this as more good faith, and undo your reverts.


 * [[Image:Aum-Red.svg|50px]]


 * Thank you. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Use of rollback
Please do not use admin rollback tools on good faith editing. Jkelly 00:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Not that it is any of my business, but there wide use of the Swastika in many cultures throughout the world for centuries or millenia. American tribes and the Chinese and Koreans and Japanese and Indians etc. I think it is a bit much to expect the Indians, who after all fought on the side of the British against the Nazis in WWII, are somehow responsible for the negative connotations associated with the swastika after it was used by the Nazis. That is absolutely ludicrous, and carrying political correctness much too far. If you want someone to back you up, I would argue this one to death. This is a ludicrous stance for him to take and I applaud you reverting things. It is completely ignorant to knuckle under to this excessive sensitivity and thoughtlessness. Why is his culture more important than anyone else's? It isnt, but that is what he is implying. I do not condone the holocaust or anything and I am pretty outraged at what was done to the Jews over the centuries and particularly during WWII. But this is nuts. --Filll 02:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you mean me? If not, I'll refrain from responding. If so, you misstate my objection. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 02:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Good Day
I have reason to believe that User:Siddiqui is using sock puppets or meat puppets to put extremist POV on History of India and Christianity in India. See my files chkusr request Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Siddiqui

and the history of the articles. I am more sure than ever that User:HamzaOmar and User:AliHussain are socks/meats of Siddiqui and they are heavily vandalizing History of India so I must revert their edits evoking exception to 3RR of vandalism. I suggest you take a look at the problems they have generated in Pakistani nationalism,History of Pakistan and Hindu temples in Multan which are protected thanks to these socks.Rumpelstiltskin223 06:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Kayla (Orca)
Is it possible to delete the page? It would be better if I moved Kayla (whale) to it, since other pages fit the same format too such as Keiko (Orca). -WarthogDemon 06:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I just now noticed that a good page would be Kayla (orca), so perhaps I can find a cleaner way to solve this. I'll check with another admin on this rather than burden you unnecessarily.  Sorry for the inconvenience. ^^; -WarthogDemon 06:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Your proposal
Thank you for your proposal. I think this is a reasonable solution. Sincerely, --BostonMA talk 14:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Pakhub
Ok let me explain.

I have read the Wiki policies, and I didnt want an article for my forums.

In the Pakhub article, the site was used as a reference point. The article itself was supposed to mainly be about the dispute between Indian and Pakistanis regarding Pakistani history. In the deletion discussion, I accepted the article might have mentioned Pakhub too many times, and I was willing to edit the section and create a Wiki article on the dispute only.

I was never given a chance to do this as people were solely trying to shut the article down.

This was confirmed when you requested another member to put a speedy delete tag on my article, so you could delete the article using your admin abilities.

The article was deleted so quickly, that nobody had been given the chance to delay the deletion or start a discussion, I was not informed in any way, and I had no idea what I had done wrong. If I had been told, I wouldnt have recreated the same article again, but changed the bits that bothered you.

To sum it up, I want an article which explains the dispute and viewpoint of Pakistanis, and to clarify, this dispute is not limited to Wiki. I can find sources for this from dozens of respectable websites, aswell as hundreds of other discussions on the net.

 Unre4L ITY  18:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

dev script
I know the vowels of the devangari scripts from friends teaching me. I know a little sanskrit from prayers and I can speak bongo. Reading the tables from the indic naming convetions is also helpful since indic scripts are like Hangul. I know how to read hangul.--D-Boy 23:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Pakistani nationalism
The article has been protected after a POV user made this edit. The edit war that caused protection began with this same edit and everyone else was reverting it back to its older accepted version for a long time. Does this allow for the old version to be restored or will it be considered wrong to do so during protection. You can judge the NPOV of the two versions yourself, the bulk of the older version was written by a Pakistani user who believed Pakistan won the Kargil War so its not as if its Hindu POV pushing.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 06:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC) By the way, ThugChildz has broken 3RR on Cricket World Cup, if I revert him I would also break it and since it isn't ordinary vandalism, someone else needs to look at it.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 06:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

revert
Why did you revert my version? As my version was 1st reverted/edited. And the revert meses up how the page looks. The pictures doesn't even fit into the certain section. And as I said the two have I had up was the more meaning full to the section than the other two. The other two doesn't represnt anything but that one world cup while 1st one represents the prudential world cups and the second represents the current/"present" trophy. Plus I had added more to the section so can you please undo your revert as it reverted my newer edits --Thugchildz
 * Yeah, User:Dmcdevit did a CheckUser and Sayeed212 is a sock. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

might take a really long break again
I seriously thinking about taking a break again. this crap is too much for. Other people coming in telling us what to. First the indian template, and now the welcome template. I just feel it reflects real life too much.--D-Boy 19:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dangerous - 'We' should mean everyone on WP, not just Hindus (or Hindus who hold your POV).
 * ''"Us, and them...
 * ''And after all were only ordinary men.
 * ''Me, and you.
 * ''God only knows its not what we would choose to do." -- Pink Floyd
 * I hope you'll reconsider and stay with the project (and consider the bigger 'We' of Wikipedia). -- User:RyanFreisling @ 19:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Ryan its not you I guess... but loads of other crap thats going around here... अमेय आर्यन DaBrood&#169; 21:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

CWC
Yes it should, it sounded a tad awkward.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 22:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Kali Yuga
Thank you for deleting the trivia section. I deleted it once before, it was reverted, and rather than get into a revert war over it, I added some ridiculous trivia to the section hoping someone would get the hint. &#2384; Priyanath talk 23:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

CWC FAC
It would be good if it were FA and all we need is a thorough copyedit and the media coverage section to match Rugby and FIFA World Cups.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 06:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thee Media section is almost as big as the Rugby and FIFA World Cup sections, so what's left to do before taking it to FAC?  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a History of the Cricket World Cup is pointless as it would only repeat the contents of all the respective World Cup pages. Cricket World Cup records could be created and contain a bit more detail. That's all I guess, the CWC is quite new compared to the FIFA one.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 03:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've created Cricket World Cup records and it is currently fairly comprehensive.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 03:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive
Gizza, can you please archive the Hinduism talk page ? I would have done it myself, but I couldn't decide where to draw the dividing line; and thought I'd pass the buck to you since you may have a greater experience in such matters. Thanks. Abecedare 07:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Gizza. As for Tony's guide, check out the last two links in my message on the Hinduism talk page message from a couple of days back. I quote: "I also found these wikipedia articles useful: WP:Avoid weasel words, WP:Peacock, WP:Words to avoid, Ideas for reducing redundancy and related exercises (these are excellent !)."
 * Obviously we have the same idea, "just" a matter of getting it implemented ! :-) Abecedare 08:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Cornered tiger
I asked about it in a Pakistani cricket message board. They told me that it came from an Imran Khan quote to Ian Chappell in the interview before the toss in the match against Australia in 1992 World Cup, which Pakistan had to win to stay in the tournament. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc1HC8CDkEc Tintin (talk) 10:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The tiresome thread at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hinduism
I've said my piece and will heed my own advice - I will not feed the trolls even in the face of provocation and leave Troll feeding festival it has devolved into. I give my best regards to the active editors of Wikiproject Hinduism and wish them all the luck. In leaving the discussion, I'd like to leave a note - assumption of good faith does not mean the blind adherence to it in the face of Trolls hiding behind the guise of good intentions. There are many forms of Trolls and subtle are their ways - especially in Wikipedia with its myriad rules and intellectual atmosphere. Wikipedia tends to attract the more clever variety, and they will never fess up to "being Trolls". Do not get taken advantage of to the detriment of the Wikiproject, the Wikipedia and yourself --Eqdoktor 10:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * you said it perfectly.--D-Boy 08:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

hi
As you were a participant in this discussion you may want to see the new avatar of the discussion. Baka man  16:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Super 14 peer review
Hi, I was wondering if you could comment on the Super 14 page at it's peer review here. I would really appreciate the input. Thanks. - Shudda   talk  22:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar Award
Gizza - I haven't completely forgotten, but it seems most people have. I was running out of time and new ideas, so letting it sit for awhile wasn't a bad idea. But how do we go from here? Do people vote? Do we ask for more feedback? I understand NobleEagle's latest comment that the symbol and the barnstar aren't integrated, but because those two symbols are so incongruous I thought to make the Aum symbol stand out. For that reason I like the latest version, but if it's going to go forward it probably needs a final period of comment, or the threat of final acceptance to get people to come and give their opinion. And it may need another designer, too, if there's going to be alot of additional back-and-forth. Thanks for following up. &#2384; Priyanath talk 00:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the review! Arjun 02:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

sense of humor
You commented in the edit summary section on the Hinduism page: I think goras won't know how to pronouce ṛ easily so I made it to "ri". That was very nice of you. Thanks LeMaster 00:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

''Your userpage says you have Franco-Scottish ancestry. If so, do you align yourself with any denomination. It amazes that so many of the Hindus on Wikipedia are converts relative to Hinduism in the real world. It must be because converts are generally more religios than those born into a religion.'' GizzaChat © 01:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You asked...Are you a convert?


 * I don't actually align myself with any group or denomination. Philosophically I identify mostly with Vedanta. Hinduism is just simply apart of my life. For me it's a subtle knowing that Hinduism is truth. I was told once that everyone is born Hindu, because of the universality of Brahman, it's just that not everyone has realized it yet. It saddens me to see the many misconceptions that have been attributed to such a beautiful way of life. I’ve noticed the many contributions that you've made to the Hinduism Project here on Wikipedia and how quick you are to correct mis-impressions. As you know, millions of people read Wikipedia and it's important for them to know Hinduism as it is and not as some have wrongly defined it. From one Hindu to another...I appreciate your work immensely. LeMaster 03:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Brahman section
Hi I am trying to help prune the Hinduism article as well, do you think that the large column in the Brahman section is necessary? As it is already covered in the section and elsewhere. Arjun 03:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have always liked your username, what does it mean? Is it a reference to the "The Gita? Cheers! Arjun  04:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Lol, wow how interesting :). I have learned so... much since joining wikipedia =). I support signing your name as Sir Gizmo ;), hmm...I have heard of Krishna lifting the mountain. My username is Quite obvious. Cheers and happy editing. Om Namo Narayana. Arjun  04:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes it is nice to just do that. I am a vandal fighter so I am in contact of them for most of my time here. But I am very happy when I am just editing. Hey I have a Featured portal in my sight. Yes it is Portal:Hinduism lol. It is up for it right now. Cheers! Arjun  04:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I just realized all the work you have done for Ganesh! Wow that is great! Before I was an editor I read this article and was astonished about it. I find it very good compared to most Hinduism related articles. Arjun  04:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes I checked the history :), and while I saw that he/she did most of the work you greatly helped. Also it is on your userpage. I am offline now. Cheers! Arjun  04:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Govardhan parvat
I saw your comment on Arjun's page, and thought you'd appreciate this image. Consider it to be it in lieu of a barnstar for all your efforts on the Hinduism page. Abecedare 05:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:Bounty...
Hey you've got over 364 days to make me poorer by 20 quid! I've made a small personal fortune over my blog posts... thanks to Google Adsense. Anyways, I've seen you guys try hard to FA Hinduism for over a year! I do hope my lil' bounty may help in getting others interested. As for contentious articles, i agree its best for the sake of our mental integrities to take a break from them! I wont be here much save for an impeding ArbComm i'm expecting... good luck at Hinduism articles, even though i'm more of a nastika, i still identify culturally as a Hindu. Thats one of the reasons why i'm more into political/historical articles than religious ones...

P.S Mate g'luck for your school leaving examinations. I'll be graduating from school this May with (hopefully) 6 A Levels! I plan to come down under for summer (oops winter!), hopefully people wont make fun of my pommy accent as they did the last time i was in Australia! Amey Aryan DaBrood&#169; 17:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

cats
You should fill up Category:Hindus_by_nationality especially Category:Australian Hindus, its in your alley of editing. Baka man  18:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Excellent User Page Award

 * Sorry, but I can't accept this barnstar because it is not true. I was planning to renovate my userp page when I get the time, which will be in a year or so. You must be a Metapedian! GizzaChat  &#169; 11:44, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

swastika
Noticed ur msg on dboy's page. I'm keeping it just because I dont want to feed the trolls. We have to take a hard stand when misapprehensions about our symbols creep up and their sanctity is attacked by ignorance. Ching-Thang Khomba did not liberate Manipur by "discussing" or "Gandhigiri", he was unyielding in his resolve to protect the truth against lies. Baka man  00:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you think?
Hi Girik! Okay, what do you think of this...it was hard work *whew*! If you could help with the list I would be very grateful. Thanks! Arjun 02:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hola!
I feel it isn't right for others to tell us what is appropriate and what is. To remove that symbol on the template would lead to another 50 years of self censorship, ignorance, and appeasement. The indian template was changed and it was in no way offensive. The paks didn't change their's. Why did we have to change ours? If the swastika comes off, so should the cross and the crescent. Those stand for genocide as well if viewing from IZak's point of view. Baka is right in that ghandi would not work here. Probably someone like krishna is needed. Krishna would do his dharma and fight.

I've been watching the Hinduism article. its coming out nicely.--D-Boy 21:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand in the end, the symbol will mostly likely be removed. But like bhishma, a man must do his duty and fight even though the fight is meaningless and he knows the outcome but it's his duty.  I think the village pump would have probably been more one sided in izak's favor.--D-Boy 22:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

History
I don't know what your stance is on participating in such discussions these days but it dab, deep and d-boy have agreed on renaming History of India to "History of South Asia", "History of the Indian subcontinent" or "History of Greater India". Meanwhile, referring to the History of Pakistan, Unreal wants us to take it one step at a time which is very considerate of him. Also note that Unreal and Mercenary are politely asking Indian editors what they are doing on Pakistan-related article and why they keep vandalising them when Pakistanis don't vandalise India-related articles.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 21:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just read what you wrote on Nadirali's page and it's alright if you don't bother responding.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 21:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Look, don't worry about the Partition. You will never find a Pakistani editor who will admit to forcing out the kaffirs. Good luck with your HSCs. :)  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 22:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Cricket World Cup
I got your message last month about your endeavours to bring Cricket World Cup up to FA standard. I had a couple of looks at the article at the time, but haven't really thought about editing it until now. It seems that Thugchildz and NobleEagle have done a bit of work on it since then, and the text appears to be pretty impressive. But that said, I have major concerns about the images that are placed throughout the article. They are firstly of a very poor quality (with the exception of the trophy and Kapil Dev) and also have obvious copyright issues. The infobox is also very messy and I think it isn't needed at all. I tried to remove the images and the infobox earlier but got stiff opposition from Thugchildz who speedily reverted it back. What is your opinion of the images and infobox? --mdmanser 06:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, Thugchildz has created main articles for everything possible. They'll need expansion, many are just copy-pastes of what we have in the CWC article. I worked on Cricket World Cup awards but I'm not sure what I'm doing is worthwhile because I'm basically just giving details of the Grand Final while placing emphasis on the actions of one player.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 23:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Gizza we want to nominate the world cup article now so if there's any problems we can fix it to get it to FA in time of the world cup. So can you please nominate the article and is there anything else needed to in it? give it a quick look please.--Thugchildz

Border-Gavaskar Trophy
The article's topic is worthy of GA, there's been a lot of hype about these encounters in recent years so lots of sources are out there. But I wonder whether you know of any images on wiki or perhaps any images you can upload relating to the tournament.  Noble eagle  [TALK] [C] 06:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

origin
পশ্চিমবঙ্গ..-_^--D-Boy 01:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Bhalo bhashi!  Amey Aryan DaBrood</b><b style="color:red;">&#169;</b> 19:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:Hindi Wikipedia
Namaste dost. I would very much like to contribute to Hindi Wikipedia. As of now, my current schedule will not allow me to do so. However, in the future, I hope to become an active contributor. Thanks for thinking of me. With regards, AnupamTalk 04:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Jehu Eyre
Hi. I'm a relatively new contributer to Wikipedia, and recently stumbled across an article that interested me about the Revolutionary War. I looked up more sources on the subject and posted them, along with the facts stated in those sources. The article is now tagged as a possible hoax, and I am searching for objective analysis of it from multiple users. If you could please take a look, and urge others to take a look as well, I'd be very grateful.

SwedishConqueror 20:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)SwedishConqueror

Redhouse Yacht Club
The Redhouse Yacht Club article to which you have contributed has been nominated for deletion due to lack of independent references and a concern that the Club may not be notable enough for inclusion at Wikipedia. I do not agree and am contesting the deletion. As a prior editor of this article, I am asking you to help in the process of clarifying these issues.

Sincerely,

--Kevin Murray 23:25, 28 January 2007 (UTC)