User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo/Archive10

List of Wales international footballers
Thought I'd start new comments here under the correct heading. Hope you had a good break.

Rothmans references
I have established why some of my 1st/last caps info was wrong, as it seems only since 1971-72 is Rothmans listing all caps for a season in chronological order. Until then caps against the other home countries are generally listed first in each season, followed by those gained against other countries. In addition, up until the early 1950s Home International appearances were generally listed in the order England/Scotland/Ireland, even if that wasn't the order of games in that particular season. Anyway, I have gone back though those entries I input that are affected by the above, and hopefully they're all correct now.

Way forward
Given you have ordered those books and that the 1946-1979 period does not have online lineups to hand at present, would it make sense for you to start working forward from 1946, as people doing periods until then (or after 1979) can use the WFDA & RSSSF sources. What do you think? Eldumpo (talk) 10:01, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I hope you don't mind me interjecting here, but I have a book called The Complete Wales FC 1876-2008, which lists results, line-ups and goalscorers for every Wales match from 25 March 1876 to 19 November 2008. It also has a summary table at the back, listing every player to have played for Wales in that period along with numbers of appearances made and goals scored. If you guys need info for any match or player, please send me a message and I'll look it up for you. – PeeJay 11:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info about the books you have, and I noted you added a number of dates to the article earlier. Do you want to assist in adding names in a particular order, and if so do you want to go forward from 1946, which would allow DK to continue going forward from start, Kossack is going back from current, and I was going to go forward from 1920. Eldumpo (talk) 21:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Ireland v Wales (11 April 1885)
I think we have a problem with the goalscorer data for that match. The Welsh Football Data Archive and Soccer - The International Line-ups & Statistics Series: Wales 1876-1960 (published 1995) both say that the goalscorers were W. Owen, T. Burke, H. Sisson (3), J. Roach (2) and F.R. Jones, but The Complete Wales FC (1876-2008) (published 2009) says that H. Jones scored instead of F.R. Jones. Who do you think we should believe? – PeeJay 11:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The 'Guinness Record of World Soccer' also has H Jones as the scorer, and Rothmans has no record of a F.R. Jones ever scoring for Wales. There are 2 H Jones in Rothmans who have played for Wales - a 'H Jones' in 1901/2 (1 cap) and a 'Humphrey Jones' (1884/5 to 1890/1 - 14 caps including the 1885 Ireland game). However in the lists of scorers (they are only listed in total, not by game) only a 'H Jones' is listed as scoring for Wales, and not 'Humphrey Jones', so not sure if that helps! Eldumpo (talk) 21:53, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Further to this, 'H Jones' only cap was on 22/2/1902 against Ireland, a game in which Wales did not score, therefore it can be derived that the 'H Jones' scorer listed in Rothmans must actually be 'Humphrey Jones' in 1885. Of course, the key question regarding these differences between sources is where each of those has obtained their facts from in the first place. Eldumpo (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I have now bought a copy of the "Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players" by Gareth Davies and Ian Garland, which also credits Humphrey Jones with one goal and Frederick Robert Jones with none, so I guess we should accept that The Welsh Football Data Archive and Soccer - The International Line-ups & Statistics Series: Wales 1876-1960 are both wrong, and the other sources are correct. I will take this into account when adding them to the List of Wales international footballers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 13:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Daemonic Kangaroo! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 6 of the articles that you created  are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the list:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 19:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Eric Martin (footballer) -
 * 2) Phil Boyer -
 * 3) Mike Osman -
 * 4) Paul Davies (footballer born 1952) -
 * 5) Fred Smith (footballer born 1926) -
 * 6) Jock Smith -

Malvern College
Hi ! The Old Malvernians/alumnae section  that  you  contributed to in Malvern College finally  got so  long  that  it  had to  be split  off into  a separate list page. In doing  so, it's been found that  for many  of those noble people there is no  actual proof that they  ever went  to the school. However, they probably did, and  the entries were made in  good faith. Nevertheless, the rules require everything in the encyclopedia to  be verifiably  sourced. It would be great therefore, if you could take a look  at  the list  and help out if you  can with  providing  some references. The people all  have their own Wiki  articles, but  it  is no  guarantee that  the mentions of Malvern College (if any) are correctly  cited. Thanks. --Kudpung (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Robert Jones
Hi. I saw you added Robert Albert Jones to the list as 'Albert Jones'. Do your books show him as being known as Albert, although in any case should the Wiki page be 'Robert/Albert Jones (footballer born 1864)'?

Similarly should Robert Jones (footballer) (listed as 'Bob') be Robert Jones (footballer born 1868) and thus listed as 'Robert'. My sources don't show this person as being known as Bob. I intend to add an article on the younger Jones. Regards Eldumpo (talk) 19:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)


 * In the "Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players", all the players are listed by their full names, but in the biographies the authors refer to them by their familiar names; thus for Robert Albert Jones they say "Albert Jones was a good all round athlete..." and for Robert Samuel Jones (born 1868) they say "Bob Jones ... took part in Everton's very first Football League match in September 1888." (For what it's worth the Everton player database has him as "Robert S. Jones".)


 * For the redlinks on the list, I stuck with those used elsewhere on WP; thus there were already three links to Robert Albert Jones and four to Robert Jones (footballer). I hope this is of some help, at least in explaining my thought processes. Disambiguating the early players can get rather tricky with 5 "John Jones", 4 "Richard/Dick Jones", 4 "Thomas/Tom Jones" and 5 "William/Bill Jones". There are also too many players disambiguated as "Welsh footballer", which is not terribly helpful.  Cheers.   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:12, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the first name used in a players Wiki article (or what is shown on the redlink) should be the same as what we show as the first name on the list. Also, I don't think middle names should be used as a rule for Wiki titles unless they are often referred to by that full name, or if there is no other way to disambiguate. It's a fair point regarding other Wiki links, although there are other footballers called Robert Jones and thus I will rename 'Bob' to '...1868'. I don't see a problem with our list having multiple people of the same name, as they will be disambiguated by the stats next to their name, however I do feel it would be useful if the multiple-names people are prioritised for having articles written, and I will try to do that to an extent. Thanks for your impressive additions to the list. Eldumpo (talk) 09:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the latest player I've added to the list proves I was trying to be a bit too fixed with the above paragraph. Robert William Matthews already had a Wiki article, but he seems to have been generally known as 'Billy' and thus I have added him to the list as that. Perhaps it's more important that our list shows the first name that he was most popularly known by, and whether some of the Wiki articles should change name is another matter. I suppose though for redlinks we can seek to choose a name that we think best refers to him. Given that there appears to be only the one reference to Bob above though I do intend to rename him to 'Robert 1868'. Any further thoughts?! Eldumpo (talk) 10:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Ideally, all redlinks across Wikipedia that refer to the same person should be the same; thus if a player has scored in an international or appeared in an FA Cup Final, he is likely to be redlinked somewhere so I will try to use the same article name, unless this is clearly wrong or inappropriate in which case I will change the other redlinks (I hope that makes sense). At this stage, we need to concentrate on getting the list complete and then perhaps we can fine tune it as the articles get written. As for Robert Jones, I am more than happy with what you have done -  I may expand the article later to include his non-football career as per the "Who's Who".  Cheers.   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 13:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar
By the way, can I interest you in joining WP:HANTS? waggers (talk) 15:31, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Dai Davies (footballer born 1948)
I wonder if this post-war intl' should've stayed at Dai Davies (footballer) as per primary usage, although I appreicate it's a tricky one as the earlier intl' was also a goalkeeper! According to allfootballers.com there are 2 other Dai Davies with FL experience - one from 1935-47 and the other 1952-54. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 20:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If there were four footballers by the name of Dai Davies, then only if one is clearly more well known than the others should he keep the simple "footballer" suffix. In this case neither of the two Wales internationals has any claim to preference other than the length of his career.  Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent entries
You added 'Arthur Davies' to the list but the redlink is to an Arthur Hughes so is the Davies just a typo. Also, 'Gordon Hughes' was added for a redlink of Gordon Jones (footballer born 1886) though his list birth is shown as 1855.

Any thoughts what you'll do when you complete 1914. Given I'm still some way off 1939 would it be easiest for you to go to 1946? Regards Eldumpo (talk) 22:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops - thanks for picking those up; now corrected, I hope!


 * When I reach 1914, I'm not sure what I'll do. I have other articles I'm midway through creating (nothing to do with football) - being an Englishman through & through, I'm not sure why I'm putting together a list of Welshmen - too many Davies, Hughes and Jones for my liking ;) As I'm desprately busy at work at the moment, this was useful diversion but I'll probably chill out in February. Having said that, it would be a shame to jump ship when the list is over 75% complete. Cheers.   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 23:10, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Your help/main contribution to the article is much appreciated. If you do decide to stop at 1914, but then want to have another go later you can always see where Kossack and I have each got up to and start somewhere in between. Also, give me a shout in future if you want any contributions to articles etc. Cheers. Eldumpo (talk) 23:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Walter Davis (footballer)
Rothmans and Michael Joyce has him listed as Davies with the 'e' but I see WFDA is without. Is he listed as without in your book sources? Eldumpo (talk) 23:24, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Definitely "Davis" - see Google search for "Walter Otto Davis". Not to be confused with Walter Davies (footballer) (known as "Darky") who made one international appearance against Ireland on 9 Feb 1884.   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:30, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Jack Newnes
Both my books give his date of birth as 6th June 1895 whereas you have 4th June, which is what www.allfootballers.com (Michael Joyce's website) shows. I have taken the liberty of altering it to 6th. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to leave it as the 6th, although I take the Michael Joyce book to be pretty accurate as a rule, and there is some good intro text in the book explaining the compilation etc. As I mentioned previously the key question is where each source takes it's stats from. Anyway, I assume you're now taking a well-earned rest from the list. Cheers. Eldumpo (talk) 21:00, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Owain Tudur Jones
Hi, I noticed you moved him to the T's section of the List of Wales international footballers. I nearly did that myself but I noticed that Findmypast.co.uk, a list of birth and death records in England & Wales between 1986 and 2006, lists Tudur as being his middle name rather than his surname. Based on this, do you think he should be listed under T or J? Kosack (talk) 18:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Based on the number of sources, it does seem that it is most likely that Tudur is part of his surname. Normally, based on just one source, I wouldn't have mentioned it but Findmypast.co.uk is one of the most reliable sources around so I thought it would be best to bring it up just in case. Cheers. Kosack (talk) 19:25, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Les Williams
Most likely me that's missing something. I'll double check my books when I'm next online at home. Cheers for the heads-up! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Dunno how I missed him, but he's on there now. All my sources, however, state that he was known as Bert Williams, so that's how I've listed him (specifically at Bert Williams (Welsh footballer)) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:26, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Ron Saunders
Hello. I've added some inline refs, for clarification, and removed the tag. Would have looked at the Portsmouth F.C. website for sourcing, but it doesn't seem to be available :-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:12, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

David Jones (footballer)
Hmmm. There's quite a collection of them, isn't there!

Do you think it merits turning the redirect page into a dab page? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:45, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi - thanks for the note. Sorry for the delay in replying. I think you'll find that you cannot have a Dab page with suffix "footballer". As "David Jones (footballer)" redirects to David Jones where the players are listed, that is the correct treatment. Cheers.  Enjoy your break.   --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 07:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Enjoy your break." - Thanks! (I am.)
 * It seems I explained myself poorly.
 * What I meant was: What do you thing of the idea of turning "David Jones (footballer)" into a disambiguation page, and moving the footballers from David Jones to the new dab page?
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 08:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * BTW: I don't agree that there is just one "correct" treatment - my interpretation of WP:MOSDAB is that both treatments are "correct", and probably some others as well.
 * I don't see why you cannot have a Dab page with suffix "footballer". What leads you to think that?
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 08:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Finishing off the list
Nice to see the list is mainly complete - just a bit of mopping up/checking now.

Charlie Morris
Rothmans and Joyce have 27 caps for him and not 28. The Rothmans is also based on seeing the line ups and I count 27. Do you want to check your sources (do they include lineups?), else there may be a need for another footnote. Cheers Eldumpo (talk) 09:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking, I have added some sources to his article. Eldumpo (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Robert and Bob Roberts'
I'm having some trouble associated with the various Robert/Bob Roberts of the 1880s/90s. The 'Bob Roberts' in our list is shown as having 2 caps when the Rothmans lists him with 3 (he is just referred to as 'R Roberts' in there) - the 3rd being 7/02/1891 v Ireland. However, I am finding a disrepancy between Rothmans and WFDA for this game. Rothmans have 2 R Roberts listed - players from 'Wrexham' and 'Rhos' which I think corresponds with the players marked as 'Bob' and 'born 1865' respectively from our list. WFDA appears to leave out the Wrexham Roberts and includes Jack Bowdler, but when I add the appearances of Bowdler in the Rothmans lineups I do get 5 caps for him.

In addition, both Rothmans and WFDA show our 'Bob' as the 1st-listed player on 12/3/1887 thus suggesting he was the keeper which doesn't tie with his other appearances, although perhaps that is just explained by a lack of alternative keeper for the game, and maybe that happened occasionally in those days? For extra confusion, Joyce has our 'born 1864' Roberts as known as 'Bob' and the '1865' only known by initial 'R'! The other two R Roberts were not playing for FL clubs.Eldumpo (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * My two books are more or less in agreement on the following:

Scotland 29 03 1884 (Scored) Scotland 21 03 1887
 * Robert Roberts (footballer born 1864)		Druids/Bolton	Wing half	Games 9 Goals 1

England 04 02 1888 Scotland 10 03 1888 England 23 02 1889 Scotland 15 04 1889 Scotland 22 03 1890 Ireland 27 02 1892 Scotland 26 03 1892

Ireland 27 02 1886 Ireland 12 03 1887 Ireland 07 02 1891 England 13 03 1893 Ireland 08 02 1890
 * Bob Roberts (footballer born 1863)		Wrexham	Full back	Games 2 Goals 0
 * Robert Roberts (footballer born 1865)		Rhos/Crewe	Outside left	Games 2	Goals 0
 * Robert Lee Roberts	Chester	Fullback	Games 1	Goals 0


 * The only difference is who score in the Ireland 07 02 1891 match, although I would go with the WFDA on this i.e. neither of them. Cheers --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for response. Firstly, there is an error in what I put above. J Bowdler only has 4 appearances when I tally the Rothmans line-ups, so perhaps that does point to a straight Rothmans error and that they should have Bowdler listed Feb 1891 rather than the 'Wrexham' Roberts? They have the scorer for both goals as W Lewis. The Wrexham Roberts is however listed as number 2 in the line-up and thus if Bowdler is a straight replacement for him in the line-up then he's not in his usual position. It still means 'Wrexham's' 2nd cap was potentially as an out of position goalkeeper. Eldumpo (talk) 16:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I inadvertently saved changes here when I was trying to compile our R Roberts threads for the List talk page (now done). Eldumpo (talk) 22:15, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Edwin James (footballer)
Do your sources have him playing 19/3/1898 v Scotland. Is your line-up as per WFDA? Eldumpo (talk) 21:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes to the first question. I can't access the WFDA site at present - there seems to be a fault. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And yes to the second question.  --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:46, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for confirming. Eldumpo (talk) 23:00, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Cheers for the help
I noticed you'd been doing a lot of Welsh articles, you've done a good job. It's on my list to finish the country first/last for the list, and then try to do articles for some of the names that are the same. Let me know if I can be of assistance on any articles/issues in the future, and I hope you enjoy Sunday. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 18:13, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Billy Frame advice
A non-Welsh list query for a change. What do you advise regarding the 2 recent unsourced edits made to the page. They're probably likely to be true based on good faith etc but I don't really know. I'm sure not every last sentence of mine on articles is fully referenced. Any thoughts? Eldumpo (talk) 18:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Taffy Davies
Just to let you know, I've nominated the article as a possible WP:DYK, and listed you as a co-author. Regards, WFCforLife (talk) 07:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Luci Victoria
Thanks!! Dismas |(talk) 15:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Date of death
I was wondering where you got Jack Fowler's date of death from? I have been on a bit of a roll lately creating pages for our former players but one of my regrets when doing our earlier players is that sometimes their date of birth and usually their date of death aren't available.

I've had a browse at census websites but having to pay a subscription is a little bit off-putting. So if you know a place then it would be a great help.

Enjoy Puncheon by the way, I rate him as a player but he couldn't settle here because of personal issues he has back in London with his family which is why we loaned him to Franchise FC for more than a year. It'll be a straight-forward commute to there from Southampton for him too I imagine. I miss Wotts also. He's not a flair player or exceptionally quick, but he is top leader and does his job. He is deadly from set-plays but I don't think he gets a chance now what with Lambert hogging the dead-ball. ;)

Regards. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 04:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Tom Walley
That's fine. I don't object to infoboxes as such (I don't always see the point, but I can understand why they help), but my real issue is with that template. The way it is written and formatted implies that they are manditory, which is wide of the mark. I've taken up the discussion on its talk page, and at WikiProject Infoboxes; hopefully this will result in changes that address this. Regards, WFCforLife (talk) 11:37, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

List of Nottingham Forest F.C. players
Any idea how I change the text in the table for this article so that the 'Notes' column shows as fully lined for all entries and not just when there is a notes entry i.e. like we have with Wales. Thanks.Eldumpo (talk) 15:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Simply add two vertical lines ( || ) at the end of each line of data. I've done the first few to show you what I mean.  Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I see you've done for all now. You also changed the code so that 'sortname' has been added before the player names, but I can't see what change that results in compared to the previous version? Are you able to explain any more on the recommended code to use - is there a guide somewhere? Thanks Eldumpo (talk) 19:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert on these things - I have to copy other people's ideas. The sortname sorts by order of surname rather than first (Christian) name. I've never found a guide - rather I've picked it up as I go along.  Cheers.    Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 22:45, 9 February 2010 (UTC) (just back from seeing Saints reach Wembley in the JPT. COYR!
 * I didn't check that very well. It seems my later lists already use the 'sortname' method, so I must've switched and forgotten about it. I assume there's no way of also searching by Christian name - I guess you'd need to have first name/lastname as different columns which would look messy. Congrats on getting to Wembley - I assume you will be OK for getting a ticket? What does 'COYR' mean? Eldumpo (talk) 22:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that there's any simple way to be able to sort both by Christian name and surname.

As a season ticket holder for over 20 years, getting 2 tickets for Wembley should be no problem, but supplying all my family, friends and contacts who want to go will be more difficult. Next up - Pompey on Saturday in the FA Cup. As their chant goes: "Pay up, Pompey. Pompey, pay up." Come On You Reds! Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Marian Pahars
I'm sorry about that edit. Just didn't see that line. Marian is alive of course. Someone (unregistered) edits that page always when I get it right. Pahars is retired now, but that unregistered user edits the page as if he still played for FK Jūrmala So I undo his edits very often and this time I just pressed undo, without watching. My fault, thanks for info!

Kalkulators 16:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

February 2010
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Sol Campbell. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing. Nancy talk  22:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

You asked ""where is the consensus" - that is exactly my point, there is no clear consensus either way so the established version (with the "last played" date) should remain until such a time as a consensus to the contrary is established. I have no particular axe to grind either way as to presence of the "last played" date but I do have Sol Campbell on my watchlist as he is often the subject of BLP violations so I have by default become aware of the current edit war  Nancy  talk  22:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Sol Campbell article
Hey, I was about to leave a message on User talk:Nancy and found my ears burning. Just to give my POV, I don't really have an axe to grind, though I admit that this particular user has gotten under my skin. FWIW, the discussion devolved mostly into a back-and-forth between me and Chris, and that pretty much ran its course last week (abd if the IP user is serious about not touching the infobox until the discussion is over, then I was happy to help and that's what I was doing in the Campbell article), and I figured I'd just be WP:BOLD about it since there wasn't a widespread opposition against what I was doing. I really wasn't trying to make a WP:POINT, even if it looked that way. Thanks. Mosmof (talk) 12:56, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries - I realize these edits can make me look like a crazy person. --Mosmof (talk) 15:00, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Rollo Jack
Hi DK, I noticed you added an extra ref for this new article. Can you help with this query Cheers. Eldumpo (talk) 11:32, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of Nottingham Forest F.C. players
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is List of Nottingham Forest F.C. players. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Articles for deletion/List of Nottingham Forest F.C. players. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

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Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons
Can you help me out? I saw how you got a picture of Moses Russell uploaded so I have been doing the same recently. I uploaded one of just now and it immediatly got flagged. Their regulations drive me up the wall as it is, so this isn't helping. I have provided a source and the author is unknown (how am I supposed to know!). Is a picture taken before 1938 not eligible? Annoyed. Argyle 4 Life (talk) 16:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm fighting my corner and the information I've provided covers it in my opinion, but I can't be certain. All this to get an old photo onto Wikipedia! Argyle 4 Life (talk) 17:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I'm away in France for a few days. I only fired up my laptop on a very slow dial-up connection to check up on last night's match. You seem to be doing everything right. As you say, WP Commons's rules can be a nightmare; some you win and some you lose, especially when the pedants are about. Good luck.   Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Find-A-Grave redirect
Please don't use piping on Find-A-Grave pages, as you did in this edit. For the project's purposes, it's actually better to have the naked name including disambiguator.

Thanks for the update! --Alvestrand (talk) 05:07, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

List of Fulham F.C. players
Hi, DK how are things. Have you seen the recent edits to this article, primarily this one, where the player list has been re-ordered to be alphabetical rather than start date. I realise a number of the player list articles have this format, but once a list is in one format should it generally remain, unless there has been prior discussion? What are your thoughts. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 08:33, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look at the featured lists, such as List of Arsenal F.C. players, List of Aston Villa F.C. players and List of Gillingham F.C. players there seesm to be no preference. Two of those (chosen at random) are sorted by date of career and one by number of appearances. FWIW, I personally prefer the former. Cheers.    Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Tommy Bowman
Michael Joyce's book gives his year of death as 1938, not 1958, so I'm not sure which is correct. -  Dudesleeper  talk  11:27, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Joyce's website, www.allfootballers.com gives 1958, so I guess the book was a mis-print. Also the Aston Villa database says 1958 (at ).  Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 13:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Kevin Phillips' goals (again)
Hello. When you can spare a minute from celebrating yesterday's most excellent victory, perhaps we ought to have another think about Mr Phillips' career stats table. It's all over the papers that his goal on Saturday was his 250th senior career goal, yet we have a total of 251... It does appear to come down to the 2003-04 Southampton season. Soccerbase says 13 league goals, but the Premier League has 12, as does the stats dropdown on Southampton's website. Neil Brown has a total of 22, which is consistent with 12 in 2003-04, as does the PFA 2005/06 book I'm reluctant to keep the 13 with such a weight of reliable sources against it. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I remember Mr Murty being carried off, but don't remember the details clearly enough to comment, I'm afraid. Never like seeing a player getting hurt, had far too good a view of the Eduardo injury for my taste... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Done that. I'm sure much of the problem lies in Soccerbase having established itself as the reliable source, because it's easily accessible, free, and run by a media company, whereas in reality it's full of errors which they rarely correct. Wonder if they go back and change things after a Dubious Goals Panel ruling... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Steve Baker date of birth
Good catch on changing the date on Steve Baker (footballer born 1962). I originally just got it off the Post War Players' Database link and assumed it to be correct. After you edited it I checked my Burnley FC history book and found the same date as you. Cheers, -- Big  Dom  07:51, 31 March 2010 (UTC)