User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo/Archive9

Reliable sources
The sources I removed were done per policy, as they were deemed unreliable at the reliable sources noticeboard. Do not re-add them.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  05:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is the relevant diff. If you want the sources to be used, gain consensus for their inclusion on the reliable sources noticeboard, otherwise they cannot be used.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs  05:04, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Craig Eastmond
I will leave the measurement as it is however just because the player is english doesnt mean using english measurement [EM] which isnt precise. For example, if you use 6ft for a player like Michael Mancienne that is 1.84m is incorrect because 6ft only = 1.83m thats why metres is used because it is precise. Plus the height numbers entered in metres is automatically coverted back to ft measurement anyway so i dont understand the fuss.--Supergunner08 (talk) 14:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

DYK
Hello Daemonic Kangaroo. I wanted to take a moment to thank you for helping out at DYK. I saw that you gave a verification on 210th Fires Brigade (United States). However; the article had just shortly before been nominated and the nominator had not been giving a warning and chance to address the issue. An article has 5 days to be abide by the rules set out on the project. The [subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes] template should be used in these cases. This allows an opportunity to give the author or nominator time to read your cmts and correct the issues and hopeful have the hook used. Thanks in advance. If you have any questions are concerns, feel free to ask. Kindly Calmer   Waters  13:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Fulham F.C. players.
Hi mate, Am I right in thinking that you have a subscription to allfootballers.com? If you do I was wondering if you would be able to help with List of Fulham F.C. players and List of Fulham F.C. players with fewer than 50 appearances? I have so far added complete stats (correct to the best of my knowledge) who have played for the club between 1996 and 2009 on the relevant list, including cup competition appearance data. I need help, however, with complete stats for players prior to that year. Any help would be appreciated. Please respond. Cheers. 03 md  23:07, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks mate, that's really helpful. 03  md  20:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar
Just noticed the article through the DYK. Good effort! Coincidence as well, because in half an hour I will be walking past it on my way to Oxford Street via the High Street! LordHarris 18:57, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

St. Mary's Church, Broadwater
Hi DK; thanks for sorting out the move from the non-standard title. I had been meaning to do it for a while but kept getting distracted by other things! Cheers, Hassocks  5489 (tickets please!)  08:52, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Stern John
Hello. Stats tables are more trouble then they're worth, especially where as in this case there are no cited sources. Referencing each row is the only way to do it, then if someone changes it without changing the reference, one can just revert with "that's not what the source says". I'm annoyed with Soccerbase, though: missing out FOUR appearances for a player from a recent Premier League season is a bit naughty. No point telling them, though. I told them ages ago that the 1988 UEFA Cup final wasn't played 12-a-side in order to include Simon Wormull and some other Brentford players who would have been about 11 at the time, but they clearly didn't believe me... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Many thanx
Many thanx. I really hope we finish with that unsourced articles pile. Some deserve being sourced, some deletion...

Have a nice hollyday! FkpCascais (talk) 13:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Shamrock Rovers managers
Grateful if you could stop adding unnecessary tags as there are enough links in the articles already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.132.183 (talk) 21:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Malvern College
Hi ! Malvern College, an article you have edited or contributed to, concerns an important school. It still needs some urgent  attention. If you can help, please see Talk:Malvern College  regarding  how it  may  be improved. --Kudpung (talk)

Respect...
...for your methodological editing on England v Scotland representative matches (1870-1872). I'm not sure if you saw the original articles but I hope that its an improvement on them: I think it describes more usefully the matches in their role in developing international football. Anyway, thanks! --Pretty Green (talk) 12:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

List of England international footballers (alphabetical)
Hi, I came across the above page and scanned through its talk page and saw you were one of the main people involved so wonder if you could give a quick overview of what's happened with all these England player lists. Is it the case that the above was started as a master article but got too big to be viewed and sorted properly, so List of England international footballers - A was created and five others up to F (eventual aim to have 26 separate articles?) But then that set up doesn't allow a list where you can easily see (or sort) the highest number of caps, hence List of England international footballers exists, although it is surely mis-named as it is limited to 25+ caps. Just wondered if my summary was broadly right, and whether any changes are planned.

Reason for asking is I was looking to do a Wales list (which isn't on here as I far as I can tell) and was looking to England as an example, but then got a bit puzzled by all the different England articles. Have you got advice on which country's list example Wales should best follow? Regards Eldumpo (talk) 23:24, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi - thanks for the message about the above article. Your analysis of the history of this article is spot-on. I created it because the older "List of England international footballers" article was incomplete, being restricted to those players with more than 25 appearances. I did try to merge the two articles but this was reversed; after a rather heated discussion, I accepted the position.


 * I accept that the full list is rather large and can cause problems with slow browsers and some platforms, but I have no trouble opening or sorting it. The separate articles for the individual letters of the alphabet were started by User:Twerbrou - his rationale was that it took too long to load the full list. Unfortunately, he seemed to have lost interest after getting to letter F. If there was some way of transcluding the smaller list to make one larger one this might work but otherwise the alphabet lists are a waste of space., especially as they are rarely updated (as far as I can see the last update was in February 2009).


 * As the creator of the full, alphabetical list, I may be biased but I think that an article calling itself a List of Wales international footballers should list every player, not just those making more than an arbitrary number of appearances. The List of Scotland international footballers (alphabetical) follows a similar format, although with less information, having only five fields rather than nine. Ideally, all the lists in Category:Lists of footballers by national team should follow a standard format, but there is unlikely ever to be a consensus on which format to standardize to.


 * Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck. A full Wales list would be a very useful addition to Wikipedia but, if my experience is anything to go by, will become an all-consuming passion. I hope this is of some help.    Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for response. Hope you don't mind me moving it here to follow the thread - I will watch the page.


 * England: Do you know if anyone tried to find out if some kind of auto-update-link could be applied to the A-F pages, both to create them in the 1st place and then to keep them updated? Although perhaps a wider question is whether they should remain – 20+ articles seems excessive. Do you agree that List of England international footballers should have a changed name (perhaps just adding 'notable'), although is this likely to be controversial? I think if more than one England article remains then there should be a clear hatnote explaining the others.


 * Wales: I think the England format looks decent so I will try for that. Do you think I should get it going with a few names and then perhaps post to some forum for info/help? Do you have an online source for the info that would need to go into the table? Perhaps once it's started you would wish to add the Soton players? Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 19:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I was never enamoured of the A -Z pages so have tended to ignore them. As the creator has "abandoned" them, I would like to see them deleted, but this won't happen as they don't meet the tests for a "speedy deletion". They could be "blanked" and converted to re-directs if there was a consensus to do so.

I did suggest some time ago that the List of England international footballers should be merged or re-named but this was rejected. Perhaps it should go to the "Requested moves" page; the present name is clearly not correct.

The only Wales international archive I have come across is at the Welsh Football Data Archive but that site doesn't have any player profiles. I guess you'll have to work with what you've got already and aim to complete the list as soon as the details are available. I'll happily identify and add the details for any Southampton players. I hope this helps. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've started the article - very early days. Feel free to assist in adding. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 18:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for adding various players to the Welsh list. A query has arisen regarding Ron Burgess. The wiki links are saying he was caretaker manager of Wales for 1 game in 1965 due to Dave Bowen's unavailability, but does this sound like he should be classed as a CM i.e. should he be removed from Template:Wales national football team managers? Eldumpo (talk) 15:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * As Burgess only stood in because of the temporary absence of Dave Bowen, I wouldn't have included him on the Wales manager template. It's rather different to a caretaker for a club side who takes over between permanent managers and may be in charge for several matches. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Whilst on, I have a query on sources. There are still four or five Southampton players not on the list - they were all active in the 1940s & 1950s, so seem to fall between the sources you have shown in the list. Can you give any advice as to how I can reliably determine when they made their debut/swansong? --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 16:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Not at present via online sources, but I have a Rothmans which will contain that info if you give their names, or else create them and I can add the debuts etc. Eldumpo (talk) 17:10, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I have now added what I can find about a further 4 players (Walley Barnes, Billy Foulkes, Ernie Jones (footballer) and Stuart Williams (footballer)). Can you fill in any of the gaps? Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I have added the stats for those. Let me know if you want to add any more to the list. Cheers. Eldumpo (talk) 09:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I see that you have noted that Ivor Powell was manager from 1949-1950. Are you sure that this is correct as it's not mentioned in his article, either in the bio or the infobox? --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 12:12, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think that's just a straight error from me re Powell, and will change. However I have not seen any evidence for the statement at Wales national football team that managers started in 1954. The only thing I found suggests it may not have started until 1956, although that site looks far from definitive, and thus I'll assume managers started in 1954 unless further data becomes available. Eldumpo (talk) 18:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Early days
As a list should ideally start at the beginning, I am planning to add details of players from the 1870s starting with the team who played in the inaugural match. I am slowly going through the match details from the Welsh Football data archive to arrive at the appearance/goals details, but can you point me at a source for their dates of birth? --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just discovered the website at  www.eu-football.info/_match.php?id=4319 which should save me a lot of work, although it appears to be black-listed!   --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 11:05, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, see my whitelist removal request at . No response yet, feel free to add your support to the use of the site, but I don't know the whitelist process. Eldumpo (talk) 11:56, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Once I've finished the 30+ caps and 10+goals players, then given that you're working forward from the start and Kossack is working back from most recent, I intend to work forward from the end of WW1, if that sounds sensible. Eldumpo (talk) 16:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Ireland
I wondered if you'd given much thought to what to call Ireland/Northern Ireland when you were doing the English version. Ireland national football team (1882–1950) is a useful page and would lead to the suggestion that it should say Ireland up until 1950 officially although the 'ROI' was active prior to then. I see there are references to Northern Ireland between the wars in the English version, so did you feel it best to use 'Ireland national' from start to 1920, then N Ireland for its continuation and Republic of Ireland since 1950? Eldumpo (talk) 17:27, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
 * In deciding which "Ireland" to list I went with the Englandstats website, which lists matches up to 1920 as Ireland, then Northern Ireland, with matches against the Republic of Ireland starting in 1946. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:42, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It's quite a messy/sensitive situation I know. I don't want to use englandstats as the basis for the Welsh so I think I will go with 'Northern Ireland' from 07/03/51 onwards, although I see various sources use various start dates, but it's not clear whether that's for convenience or reporting how the team was actually referred. I don't feel that strongly about it, will maybe look to rationalise/add some extra notes at the end! Regards Eldumpo (talk) 11:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I thought you may have left off making changes to the status of 'Ireland' on the list given our different views as per above, but I have asked Kosack for his views on the matter. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops I seem to have jumped to wrong conclusions without checking things properly! Apologies for that. Well I have now asked Kosack for his opinion (which I was going to do anyway). Sorry. Eldumpo (talk) 21:58, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have much prior knowledge on the situation but the Ireland team page states that the IFA was still fielding teams with players from both sides of the border up until the 1950 British Home Championship so, based on that, I'd be more inclined to use Eldumpo's idea of using Northern Ireland from the March 1951 game onwards. However, like I said, this is just my opinion after a quick read through on a few pages so perhaps its worth opening up a discussion at WP:Football in the hope of reaching a better conclusion? Kosack (talk) 22:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Although both my reference books and the RSSSF website all refer to the matches between April 1921 and March 1950 as being against "Northern Ireland", I decided to change them on the list to "Ireland" in order to be consistent with the British Home Championship article(s), although these rather perversely refer to the BHC matches as still involving "Ireland" right up to 1970 (even though they actually are linked to the Northern Ireland national football team), so I am still just as confused. No wonder politicians have struggled to resolve the Irish question! Still, as far as the matter in hand is concerned, I think all three of us are in agreement, that we go with the WFDA website so that the first match between Wales and Northern Ireland was on 7 March 1951. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:46, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Mel Hopkins & Sources
Have you just got hold of those books you've added to the references then - look like they'll make things fairly easy. On M Hopkins Rothmans had him as playing Hungary last up, and I've confirmed since that the N Ireland you added is correct, so I hope Rothmans is generally correct as it is being used for most of my first/last caps info. Eldumpo (talk) 09:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I have ordered both books from Amazon - should be here next week. As you say, they should make things easier. I'm away now for the New Year - I'll be back on Monday. Have a good one.    Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

User:PeeJay2K3/Wales national football team results
I would rather input every single result before publishing the list to the mainspace, but if you think it's ready to be published now, be my guest! – PeeJay 19:29, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe the next task once the players have all been input! Eldumpo (talk) 09:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)