User talk:Dahn/Archive 29

Thank you
I wanted to thank you for the Constantine Hangerli article; it was quite a surprise to find it on wikipedia. I stumbled upon Hangerli in a novel by Eugen Barbu, Saptamana nebuniilor, although there was spelled Hangerly. Anyway, you're work on en.wikipedia is quite impressive! Keep fighting the good fight.

GeoAtreides 10:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

An answer
Hi, Dahn. Sorry for the mix-up, but on the notice board it wasn't clear that you and only you would be working on the cabinet templates. But anyway... As for the colors, if you want to keep them consistent, go ahead (you're right, it doesn't make sense to use colors in one-party cabinets). And you're free to update the templates I created as you see fit. Let me know if you need help. Mentatus 19:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No prob, absolutely no hard feelings from my side. Wikipedia is above all team work and I'm glad if I can give you guys a hand. And yep, sure, change the Roman Cabinet template as you see fit. Mentatus 20:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting question: I've linked "Agriculture, Commerce, and Public Works" to "Transport, Constructions and Tourism", which may also be a bit of a stretch. I'd say link it to education, at least until (and unless) we make a page for that separate ministry (for which there is, as always, precedent). I agree: let's merge as much as possible. Of course, at some point, there may be a case for separation, but we're far from it. I also agree on adding party affiliations. For the older ministries I've noted continuing Old/New calendar discrepancies between various sources, so watch out when you get there. Biruitorul 03:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Happy Easter
Thanks for the wishes. Hristos a Înviat! — Turgidson 13:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and a very Happy Easter to you as well. One more question: Minister for "relation" or "relations" with Parliament? The latter sounds better to me - is there a particular reason to use the former? Biruitorul 14:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll make the change when I get the chance. Meanwhile, in the Paschal spirit, let me unveil Justinian Marina. It's deeply flawed, coming from ro.wiki, but at least we now have something on probably the most important BOR cleric of the 20th century. I will try to revisit it, though, when I have a chance. Meanwhile, one aspect that interests me a lot (and perhaps you too) is his relations with the communists. Was he one himself, a mere tool of the régime ("Patriarhul roşu"), or was he doing what was needed to survive, to avoid what was happening in other countries (remember that while Albania was the only one to outlaw religion, the Church was on its knees in Russia too, with Khrushchev launching an especially potent campaign against it)? I tend to take the latter view, but maybe we can explore it in greater depth. There is certainly a debate: see here (yes, I know, it's Rost) - the two paragraphs near the bottom starting with "Dincolo de limbajul veninos..." give a taste of that, along with an interesting quote of Justinian's.
 * Are Arad mayors notable? Even if they are, why would anyone bother to create such an "article"? Biruitorul 20:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Great work. I've made some changes; please review them. I also have five points to raise:
 * Should we note that Ilfov County then included Bucharest? Maybe it's intuitive, but to the average Romanian, Ilfov connotes "Jilava, Buftea, Snagov", while an outsider clicking the link would note the hole in the middle.
 * It wasn't officially Istanbul until after 1923 (though of course the name was in common use, so I don't have a problem with it).
 * Shouldn't he be in "Category:Former Eastern Orthodox Christians"? This guy is a self-proclaimed "Orthodox atheist", but it's a somewhat difficult stance to hold...
 * A date check, I guess for when I translate these: have they mistakenly used Julian dates here?
 * You note that relations with the USSR were "tense". Weren't they (also) "non-existent" until 1934? Biruitorul 23:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. On the counties: let's first map out the territorial changes Romania has undergone: To 1878: ? 1878-1913: map: let's at least link to this on en.wiki, if not create county articles 1913-1927: ? (I'm not sure what scheme was used, and how the new lands were dealt with in this period) 1927-1938: done. My own view is that it wouldn't hurt to create all of these, as they had different borders and we have OK data on them. It will also, I think, be clearer to deal with all the interwar counties as one, rather than link, say, to today's Braşov but the 1930s Tutova. I'm flexible, but this shouldn't be too difficult - though it's been over a year since it was created on ro.wiki. 1938-1940: Ţinuturi, which we have. 1940-1952?: I think the judeţe were restored in this period, with some new ones in Transnistria and a lot lost in 1940 and again in '44. 1952-1960: regions 1960-1968: regions 2 (some overlap) 1968- : current counties, with a change made in 1981.

OK, so the minimalist approach is to create as few new articles as possible, while the maximalist (which I favour) is to create articles for all these. Now that I've more clearly put forth what we're discussing, though, perhaps you have some new insights.

On the Church: I don't know how much power he had to stop the persecutions (precious little, I suspect), and furthermore, he and Dej did entreat with Hossu and Todea to convert, promising them bishoprics in the Orthodox Church. In a free society one wouldn't have to make such choices, but under communism I don't know if this game was played elsewhere. I'm not saying Hossu & Todea deserved prison, just that they were offered a fairly good deal (and they also could have become Roman Catholic without being imprisoned). When Justinian intervened too forcefully, as in 1959, he was quickly silenced. As for the Church being subordinate to the state, while that is more true of Orthodoxy, it's not so black-and-white. After his release from prison, Cardinal Wyszyński was quite a pragmatist himself. The Catholic Church in modern times has backed a number of dictators (Franco, Salazar, Trujillo) and remained silent in the face of state oppression. Nicodim Munteanu didn't do that (in the process serving as a blueprint for Justinian for what not to do); neither did Grigorie Leu ("Îndată după masa protocolară oferită de primul ministru Petru Groza, episcopul Grigorie Leu s-a simţit rău şi şi-a dat seama că a fost otrăvit.") or Saint Tikhon. In Tsarist Russia, where the Church did essentially become an arm of the state after 1721, the parish priests (little better than serfs, except they could read a little) remained close to the people and sometimes led opposition to measures taken by the state (despite the elaborate theology surrounding the Tsar) - Father Gapon, for instance. So, like I said, it's not a cut-and-dried situation. As to what the Church gained by cooperating: it survived in fairly good shape. Was it morally compromised in irreparable fashion? That's another issue, but in characteristic Romanian fashion, the faithful appear willing to forgive and forget. Biruitorul 02:51, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Nottara, Romanescu: Yes, I also had that in mind, but I'm still a bit leery to put redlinks since that guy got grumpy on me because of that :(  But also, I was not 100% of the spelling -- is that Aristizza (as I found it in a reference) or Aristiţa (as I'd have guessed)? The "List of Romanian actors" has her as Aristita, which is plainly wrong, but those lists are a pain to maintain, people put mostly  random stuff there, just now and then something good :)  Finally, Ion Manolescu-Strunga is also on the radar screen, yes? Turgidson 22:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

If you don't wish to involve yourself in a new dispute, I understand, but cine cere, nu piere. Is there anything we can do about this? I've just about had it. There must be some way to resolve this issue. Biruitorul 17:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that outburst - I was quite angry at that moment. The situation looks under control now. Biruitorul 20:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem - take your time. Sorry to hear about your technological woes. Biruitorul 16:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Did you know?

 * Salut! Hey, I crossed roads again with you, did you know that? Interesting article... You might also be interested in this. Something which must of course be appreciated with this & surely many others stuff... Fare well! (et dépose une gerbe pour Clara afin qu'on ne se retrouve pas avec qui tu sais bientôt au gouvernement... A côté de ce qui nous attend en ce cas, cela reste de la rigolade... Tristes temps, ou la vague remonte(ra)-t-elle? Tazmaniacs 10:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Au fait, je voulais te demander si tu sais comment on traduit Fichage, ça peut faire un article intéressant, mais apparemment ça recouvre pas le profiling... Tazmaniacs 10:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Je pense alors créer un article spécifique "filing", et on verra bien!... Sur Dreyfus et Constantin Mille, des sources sont facilement trouvables (probablement dans Michel Winock). A propos de Clara Zetkin, moi c'était surtout l'histoire de l'Ungdomshuset comme "laboratoire de répression" qui m'avait attiré l'oeil. Je ne connaissais pas Zetkin jusqu'à présent, et bon, chaque époque exige sa propre position politique, je ne me positionne pas trop sur le sujet. Et à propos de la semaine prochaine, et beh, je déciderai de mon vote au dernier moment, mais le choix est difficile &mdash; dernièrement, je me suis fait amicalement traiter de "fasciste" parce que j'hésitai à voter Ségo, mais il se pourrait bien qu'elle emporte ma voix dès le premier tour... Régis Debray a dit des trucs pas trop cons à ce sujet, mais 5 candidats à gauche de la gauche, ça fait un peu beaucoup. Pour autant, il faut savoir que le vote pour un candidat "mineur" n'est pas inutile, puisqu'en dessous de 5% la campagne politique n'est plus remboursée par l'Etat. Une chose est sûre: le 1er mai risque d'être "amusant", et j'irai voter pour les législatives! Tazmaniacs 16:41, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Dragă Dahn, nu înţeleg de ce susţii enormitatea că episcopul Tökes ar fi etnic român. --Mihai Andrei 21:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

List of songs containing covert references to real musicians
You may want to weigh in at Deletion review/Log/2007 April 15, since you were involved in a previous discussion of this article. - Jmabel | Talk 05:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect Categorisation of Workers Charter
Workers Charter is not a Communist paper, it is a broadleft wing paper. Please take it out of this category- it may be better placed amongst socialist papers. Ruanua 06:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Vendetta1234
I don't think so. Khoikhoi 05:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. :-) BTW, this is you, right? Khoikhoi 20:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I figured. I've created Category:Members of the Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania, and I think it can now replace Category:Ethnic Hungarian politicians outside of Hungary and Category:Hungarian-Romanians for those people concerned. As for Gheorghe Frunda, if you really want to prevent someone from moving the page put R from alternative language or R from alternative name after the redirect but on the same line. Khoikhoi 21:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that's just the standard welcome template. We have Template:Welcome, and they have Format:Bunvenit. What exactly is it saying? Khoikhoi 23:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. Well often new users here can see the various portals (for their interests), but I guess I see your point. Khoikhoi 00:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

3RR
I have reported you for 3rr violation on Moldavian. Link. --Thus Spake Anittas 23:11, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This coming from the man who edited here. Dahn 23:15, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * They saw it and warned me. --Thus Spake Anittas 23:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Since you rv yourself, I have removed the notice.You can remove this discussion, if you would like to. --Thus Spake Anittas 23:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, perhaps it should have been more than three times, but I am also tired of fighting with you over such stupid things. I think you like to pick up these fights and you surely take on a superior approach when dealing with me; and others as well. You are a very unfriendly person. --Thus Spake Anittas 23:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Constantin Angelescu
Hi, I saw that you took some interest in my message to Bogdangiusca about this topic. I still have not received an answer from him (btw, does he respond to queries? I tried several times over the past few months, but with no success...) so let me add a bit, maybe you have an idea. While working on the article on Alexandru Ghika, I came across another reference where both the Ghika and Angelescu families (with this spellling!) are mentioned. So this seems further reason to move the page from Anghelescu to Angelescu. While at it, do you understand the story about Hotel Lido (or Lido Hotel)? I mentioned it briefly in the Ghika article, but I was at a loss how to explain the context, especially since that's not quite the place to develop the story. Speaking of which, how come we don't have an article on that hotel? To my mind, it's a landmark in Bucharest. May be worth a try... Turgidson 15:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanations -- that helps. I'll need to research this some more, time permitting. Just a quick thing for now:  if this were a vote, I'd go with Ferichide.  At least, that's how I remember the name was spelled years ago, for some of the people with that name. Turgidson 17:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Revert of Userpage Vandalism
Hi there, I've reverted the vandalism done by to your userpage =) GavinTing 16:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Uploaded pictures without correct tag
I used the GNU tag because I do not know the proper copyright tag I should use. All the pictures are taken from the websites of the institutions where those people work (The National Bank, The Chamber of Deputies, The Senate). I assume that these pictures obey the same rule as the ones that can be taken from the website of the Government: one may use them if they specify the source. If that is not the case, then, I could not oppose their deletion. ES Vic 17:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Prefects of Romania
Hi. I guess you have a point regarding the pre-1948 police prefects. However, I am not 100% sure the category may lead to the idea the prefects manage more than a county (the corresponding French category it's also called "Prefects of France", see - this doesn't necessarily mean it's not ambiguous after all, since Paris has a Police Prefect). Anyways, I guess the best is to change the category name to "Prefects of counties of Romania" or "County prefects of Romania" and to redirect the current category to it. As for the police prefects, there's no need for a such category right now, since we have only two "clients" in the Romanian police officers category. Mentatus 19:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC) (P.S. You're welcome, thank you for your continuous support as well).

How hard is this?
I just have to ask - did you get that from me, or I from you? Because I know I love to use it, for instance when people write New York Times and can't ever learn that it's called The New York Times.

On a more serious note: 1. Lusophilia - it says that "Blaga referred to the Portuguese in his poem 'La Curţile Dorului'". I don't see any mention of Portugal in the poem, but maybe it's in the collection. Here it does say "mai ales in volumul La curtile dorului, are poezii inspirate din sederea lui in Portugalia" - but he published it in 1938 and also left for Lisbon that April - did he perhaps publish it there, later in the year? Also, while I know of Mexican TV shows achieving success in Romania, I don't know of any from Portugal or Brazil; do you? 2. Talk:Hinduism in Romania - his poems are widely disseminated and I've never come across more than that one reference to the poem in question. Perhaps he was interested in Hinduism, but does this poem even exist? 3. This. No doubt he was detained in Transnistria and Focşani. But does that make him a Nazi concentration camp survivor (emphasis on Nazi)? As far as I know, the Romanian authorities (influenced though they may have been by the Germans) ran that show. 4. What do you make of this? I spell out my concerns here.

Thanks for any advice you may give. Biruitorul 21:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Not a problem; take your time. It's a real honour to have initiated something like that, and I do hope it spreads far and wide. Biruitorul 21:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Quick point: did Straja Ţării start in 1934 or '35? The FRN and SŢ articles now disagree on that point. Biruitorul 19:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Perhaps now the FRN article is in place, we may wish to revisit the SŢ article and specify some of these details there. Biruitorul 00:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

National Renaissance Front
Wow, that's some job you did on the National Renaissance Front article. Thanks for that. Keresaspa 13:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Procesul comunismului
Before I answer, let me remind you that I am someone who is chafing under the Rost ban, who wonders where else he could find such a handy biography of Sebastian Rusan (written, I may add, by a CNSAS employee), and who admires their current-issue article on Justinian (which, let's be honest, considering the content and author, you probably wouldn't object to were it written in an oh-so-respectable outlet such as 22 or Jurnalul Naţional). I'm not bitter - but since you brought up the question, I thought I'd speak out.

As to the issue at hand: I think we should take a balanced approach, and not discard anything that has even the lightest tinge of green (just as you have used Romanian texts from the 1970s and '80s, despite their being written in the Protochronist era). Trust, but verify should be our way of proceeding. I'm not advocating we open the door to fgmanu.net or miscarea.net - it's clear what those are. But I see Rost and Procesul comunismului in a different light; a case-by-case approach is bound to be more productive there. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water, or conduct an excessively zealous witch-hunt.

Plus, it's understandable that Ioniţoiu should pay a small homage to the Legionnaires, for they were among the greatest victims of communism, and contrary to propaganda, most of them were perfectly decent, idealistic young men, not monsters. This is not to ignore their misdeeds or excesses, which were many and real, but they did suffer tremendously as a result, and many of these victims had relatively peripheral involvement.

In sum, I don't see most of the site's content as "diversions of the CivicMedia type" inducing "loony political agendas"; I also don't see it as our job to "confirm" and "expose" their allegedly sinister motivations. I think we should use whatever looks reasonable on that site. Biruitorul 01:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, and I'll agree with you that Ioniţoiu does his cause (overall a worthy one) no favours by putting up that icon. Likewise with Rost: while I disagree that a publication in which Vosganian has written, as well as respected theologians, is in league with Der Stürmer or România Mare (of course you didn't say this, but we wouldn't use those publications either), I agree it wouldn't kill them to use another colour and make some changes to improve their respectability (though to me they are respectable enough). I don't know how interested that particular person would be in this matter, but you do raise a good point. The reason no one else has addressed the issue, I would imagine, is that only a rather small segment of the population is bent on exposing the crimes of communism. Even in Timişoara there's now little sign that a Revolution started there, so names like Târgu Ocna or Periprava probably have little resonance among most third parties. To quote Tăriceanu: "Anii trec, iar astăzi, pentru cei din generaţia tânără, nume ca Aiud, Piteşti, Jilava, Gherla, Sighet, Rahova, Glina, Târgu Ocna, Miercurea Ciuc, Râmnicu Sărat, Poiana Mare sunt doar nume de localităţi din România".
 * That is funny - I always thought he looked rather boorish, but then again, how many real intellectuals did the top Party echelons contain, aside from the one they arrested and shot a few years later?
 * Hălmăşeu Massacre? If you think this is encyclopedic, I'll gladly turn it into an article, though it might set a troubling precedent, as "only" 7 were killed.
 * Ah, and did you see this? Some good lines: "...ăla care fiică-sa o omorâse pe mă-sa cu satâru"; Dej: "Bă, ce mai e prin Focşaniul ăla?" Biruitorul 05:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Quick point on Vasile Luca: Tismăneanu actually writes (p 125) he "participated in the preparations" for the Lupeni Strike; we say, using that source, he "[took] the forefront" there. Any reason for this discrepancy? Biruitorul 17:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I should/could have done that myself, but anyway, for now I've adhered more closely to the original, but the full context is this: "He became more and more active in the union movement and participated in the preparations for the Lupeni Strike in 1929. Unconditionally devoted to Comintern, Luca was promoted to the central committee after the Fifth Congress of the RCP, when the party was completely Bolshevized. Arrested in 1933 and released in 1938, only to be arrested again, he went to the USSR after 1940." We should perhaps clarify that he spent 1933-8 in prison. Yes, lots of interesting stuff happening all around, but that is the consequence of having a free press. The question is if someone will try or is trying to counter what they say. Slightly old news, but this is quite amusing. Biruitorul 19:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, I was just thinking about the templates. Here's the thing, though. Remember I said there's a book listing all cabinets and their compositions? Well, one of the ro.wiki guys has it and has been using it. I think this answers your Inculeţ/Niţă query, and also gives us the Communist-era cabinets, which the website doesn't have.
 * I think that's a great idea; maybe also Kogălniceanu, but any of those works. I won't be fully available till around May 20, but let's at least pick one by then, and I would say let's involve one or two others (like Mentatus or Dpotop). On the other hand, Take Ionescu, Pătrăşcanu, Averescu... aren't some of those nearly FA-level? Biruitorul 23:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts on this? I'm opposed on principle, but there's a practical question too - where does the renaming end? What percent Hungarian must a locality be for it to be moved to a new name? According to what data? I think the proposal creates more problems than it solves, especially as we have appropriate redirects and in-text mentions of the Hu name. Biruitorul 19:43, 27 April 2007 (UTC)