User talk:Damian1935

December 2020
Hello, I'm Binksternet. Your recent edit(s) to the page Uruguay appear to have added incorrect information, so they have been removed for now. If you believe the information was correct, please cite a reliable source or discuss your change on the article's talk page. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 20:55, 21 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello,


 * Please show me the portion of the information I contributed, that is incorrect.


 * Thank you,


 * Damian1935


 * Everything you wrote about tango is wrong. You removed well-sourced factual text and replaced it with unsourced falsehoods. Binksternet (talk) 21:30, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I have no intention of providing "falsehood." With due respect, your response, seems to be biased or misled by said sources. I can assure you that I have accurate sources for each and every detail provided in my edit. You instead, may be the one who's involved in falsehood as it seems you're convinced. I am in fact a competent investigator of the well corroborated facts I share.

Should I provide you with the sources, which are many? Or please tell me how escalate this?

Please advise,

Damian1935


 * Gardel was born in France. Tango has a shared origin between BsAs and Montevideo. Don't remove proven facts and replace them with your own version. Binksternet (talk) 22:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Tango origin
This is pointless! I wanted to substantiate the information provided, and you just ignored me. It's all over the internet, in museums, libraries and within extremely reliable sources.

I imagine you're aware that there exists a certain kind of cultural rivalry between Uruguay and Argentina, regarding the origin of certain things shared in that region, but I don't know if you realize that regardless of the source used (because sources have shown to be mistaken), the editors who are filling that page for Uruguay's Music (in this case) are very likely displeased Argentinians that distort Uruguay's truths about this topic. They'd like to have the general audience believe that all things good came from the bigger, western side of the River Plate. Like millions of other, you are clearly brainwashed and thus their ally in upholding real falsehood.

Furthermore, yours is an act of complete and utter ignorance. You choose to follow the crowd, whereas many have inquired deep into the origins of this musical genre known as Tango and won't allow that the wool pulled over their eyes. The truth about the very *origin* of Tango, which I have shared via this medium, has solely to do with Montevideo, Uruguay's Victorian population, immigrants, and the very makeup of that city and its occupants at the time. It simply originated there without a doubt. There are bonafide sources to corroborate this, and instead of helping to properly post this information, you brushed me off. Tango, as we know it today is from "Río de la Plata." Which is to say it's from that region which encompasses both cities: Buenos Aires and Montevideo. I'd left that clear in my text, and there was nothing false about any of it. See, around the time this genre was being borne to light, Uruguay had just become a separate state from Argentina. Still, the very first appearance of something anything close to Tango, took place, geographically, on the Eastern bank of the River Plate. That's all I wanted to point out. This tiny "act" though, seems to cause distraught for Tango enthusiasts in Argentina, naturally! Yet, their very own academics have acknowledged that which I've published. I quoted Jorge Luis Borges, who came right out and said it: "Tango is Afromontevidean." Look it up yourself! The point is people will continue to mistakenly contribute the very origin of this phenomenon, to the wrong city. Though, it sounds unfair to say: Argentinians have appropriated Tango music from a very long time ago. It's true, Uruguayan's rarely make any effort to defend that which arose on their side of things. So, I tried to contribute even the tiniest grain of sand by shedding some light (though, clearly I don't know how Wikipedia works), and unfortunately, it looks like you're just going let your readers continue to be misinformed as no one will really bother to look beyond the act perjury that you perpetuate.

Thanks for nothing mate!

Damian1935


 * Yes, you are correct in that I chose to "follow the crowd" which is, in this case, a bunch of expert scholars and United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). These scholars performed their own research, and UNESCO put together a scholarship team to weigh and evaluate the various findings. This is what UNESCO developed from the collected research, that tango "was developed by the urban lower classes in Buenos Aires and Montevideo in the Rio de la Plata basin." Both countries, not just Uruguay.
 * And the Gardel birthplace myth of Tacuarembó was concocted by Erasmo Silva Cabrera in 1967 when he published Carlos Gardel: el gran desconocido. Cabrera was a Uruguayan; no surprise there. Cabrera's mess escalated through the 1980s until UNESCO sponsored a fact-finding team in 1986 who confirmed birth records in Toulouse, France. See "Tango Time" by Luis Bocaz. Perhaps surprisingly, Uruguayan musicologist Jorge Ruffinelli confirms that Gardel was born in Toulouse, France, writing about the facts, fiction and myth in 2004's La sonrisa de Gardel: biografía, mito y ficción.
 * I have consistently defended the Gardel and tango articles from those who wish to replace the scholarly consensus with their own favorite local myth. You might want to try your hand at some other topics, because this one is not open to change. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt reply. Pleae bear in mind, though, I'm direct and won't hesitate express myself, I'd rather humbly interchange info as we've been doing. That is, you have my respect and I hope my language doesn't offend of incense you any way.

Okay, -Scholarly Consensus? I realize this is useless. I'm aware of UNESCO and how they've declared Tango an intangible patrimony of cultural human heritage, etc., and can see that you speak for these "experts" and their "research." Their research clearly wasn't far reaching. If they missed the part about Tango being born within the Montevidean Milongas and the "Academia San Felipe," where it was first played and danced to, they obviously don't have all the facts. Unfortunately, you might be 'consistently' erring on the side of not "falsehood," but certainly misinformation, as it was you who brought the word "falsehood" into this. And I'm not so bold as to accuse you of anything. I'm only sharing a distinguished point of view, with hard, cold evidence. Evidence that I assumed you had at your fingertips...

Further, Carlos Gardel was Uruguayan, not because his photographer "Silva" said so. I read your message and can see the deceit behind the ideology, based on serious investigations performed by many historians who've come to the same conclusion. You're already biased and consuming a false brand of truth. Read anything from a serious Argentinian investigator called Martina Iñiguez, for example. Observe the pictures that compare Charles Romuald Gardes and Carlos Gardel, as children. They both attendeded different schools and were 2 different people all together. Check it out for yourself. Read about the incestuous union that took place in Tacuarembo, between Escayola and a young relative. Escayola built a Theater in Tacuarembo, and people would fly in from all over to see his shows. To this day, the townsfolk there would recall hearing the singer and state "Gardel sings just like his father." If you're serious about discovering truths that your "scholars" don't know, watch the movie: "El Padre de Gardel by ***Ricardo Casas*** -You ignore all the missing links my friend. There isn't much I haven't already read about the "french theory," that you could present to me. Uruguayan's did not make this up. The facts are just there. Where's the death certificate for a french Charles Romuald Gardes in France, if he indeed was this other french man? Where does his passport and Uruguayan citizenship certificate say he was born? Why had he built a house in Montevideo, just before dying? He wanted to bring his adoptive mother HOME with him, and he planned to retire there too. His country of origin. What of all the interviews that were published in different countries, where he declares "I've nothing to do with France or Argentina. I'm Uruguayan..." You've not seen the more than striking resemblance he had with his relatives. Also, the "french plot" was created to embezzle the singer's funds and royalties. The City of Medellin, Colombia are by statute considered sister cities in honor of the singer's death there. There's so much at odds with the french theorists, including this Uruguayan history professor you mention.

But, I can see that you're convinced, and I don't intend to waste my time. You have decided to perpetuate this lie, and yes, you're in that crowd. Still, no harm, foul. It's just tabloid none-sense in the end. However, compare for yourself to see if I'm not in the right? Truth, is Gardel couldn't bear to talk about his past. He was undocumented for many years as his father wouldn't recognize him. Many Uruguayns still alive today, can testify that he traveled back and forth to Tacuarembo, for this reason. Again, I don't intend for you to publish the truth. I see that is not going to be possible. But, if you have the time and a bit of intrigue, do visit verify for yourself if this is about hiding or revealing truth. All myths must be sorted out, and this one will one day be stopped. Perhaps, once the Supreme Court in Argentina allows for a DNA test, which shouldn't even be necessary at this point. I mean look at the proof!

https://elpadredegardel.com/

https://repositori.filmoteca.cat/.../9329/Num_336.pdf...

https://sites.google.com/site/eluruguayocarlosgardel/httpsitesgooglecomsiteeluruguayocarlosgardel

Let me know if there are any questions.

Cheers! Damian1935


 * The scholars who confirm that Gardel was born in France include:
 * UNESCO
 * Luis Bocaz Quevedo, research professor at Universidad Austral de Chile, famous biographer of Andrés Bello, winner of the Jorge Torres Award in 2008
 * Jorge Ruffinelli, professor of Latin American Literature at the Universidad Veracruzana and Stanford University
 * Simon Collier, history department at University of Essex and Vanderbilt University, wrote a Gardel biography published by the University of Pittsburgh
 * Jorge Aravena Llanca, professor at Free University of Berlin
 * es:Francisco García Jiménez, tango lyricist and historian of tango
 * José Razzano, Gardel's partner and manager
 * Julián Barsky, professor of philosophy and letters at Universidad de Buenos Aires
 * Osvaldo Barsky, geopolitical historian with Interamerican Open University and Center for Advanced Studies in Education
 * Raúl Osvaldo Torre, police investigator, doctor of criminology, university professor
 * Carlos Zubillaga, Uruguayan genealogist and historian at multiple universities
 * The people you cite here who push a Uruguay birth for Gardel include:
 * Martina Iñiguez, poet of Argentine Lunfardo street slang
 * Guazú Media, an audiovisual production company in Uruguay.
 * Ricardo Casas, documentary film director
 * One article in one newspaper.
 * There's a phrase in English about the uselessness of bringing a knife to a gun fight. Looking at this list I see a vast chasm between those who confirm Gardel's French birth and those who do not. Binksternet (talk) 22:44, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

That's a fantastic phrase which supports my rhetoric. In this case, the knife should represent the actual value of the proof furnished, and not the number of dissidents who claim otherwise, and whose so called evidence doesn't measure up to the few sources I've recommended here. Another English idiom for you: 'It's not the quantity, but the quality the counts.' If we're to cite all the people with hard, undeniable proof, my list would no doubt be much longer than yours. Still, measuring 'whose is longer' is childish and irresponsible. If you take it upon yourself to study the material I've shared with you, we wouldn't be debating this any longer. I can assure you that the proof is in the pudding, and you would see how long the list of "academics" as well as ordinary people you can find that are at odds with your list and its substance. By the way, Martina Iñiguez is no poet, she's a writer, lyricist and historian, and José Razzano is not an academic, but an Uruguayan singer and composer. He grew up with Gardel in Montevideo. (Mind you, that Buenos Aires and Montevideo are a skip and a hop away from each other. Workers have always traveled from Buenos Aires to Montevideo, and vice versa.) In view of your flawed list, I see no reason to carry on with this prose. Again, I need not convince you, as you remain biased and thus blinded from the truth in this matter. You clearly haven't revised your "scholars'" material, and yet you present it to me. If you were to responsibly research all the data that you've presented to me, and then compare it with just one of sources I've mentioned, you'd be promptly dissuaded from withholding these irrevocable truths from your readers. For this particular medium (Wikipedia) you're holding the lever old chap. But, you'll remain blind to the truths about Gardel's identity, if your stubbornness keeps you from verifying the facts, with honest, unbiased research. I've already done it. I win nothing in pushing lies. It's not in me to do so.

Farewell friend, Damian1935