User talk:Dan Koehl/2005

Untagged images
Hi, I noticed Image:Birger Nordholm does not have information on its source or copyright status. Please add an image copyright tag to the image page, which best shows this information. If you are unsure of what to choose, let me know the source and any other information and I'll try to work it out. Thanks --AlbinoMonkey 04:57, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Same for Image:Sofia Wilhelmina Mariana Henrietta of Nassau.jpeg. &mdash;Vespristiano 08:22, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Viking
Dan, whether you like it or not Viking IS and will be used for Viking Age Scandinavians.--Wiglaf 14:06, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

I belive that argument is regarded as Avoid weasel terms? From NPOV tutorial: ''In other words, an idea's popularity alone does not determine its importance. Few people may know that a belief is wrong, but sometimes that is because most are unaware of the evidence against it. If you are not an expert in a subject yourself, your intuition that an article is biased may not be reliable. Keep an open mind and ask others about the evidence.''

May I also invite you to read this which was a trailer for the radio program Den konstruerade vikingatiden, vetandets värld, P1, Söndag 15 maj 2005 :

''Vikingatiden är en av de mest kända och omskrivna perioderna av vår historia. Den inleds någon gång i början av 800-talet och avslutas i mitten av 1000-talet. Det var då rödbrusiga och skäggiga nordmän for över världshaven och satte skräck i hel värld. Under senare år har arkeologer och historiker ifrågasatt den etablerade bilden av vikingatiden. De menar att den skapats under de senaste 100 åren och har lite med den historiska verkligheten att göra. Nu försöker man tränga bakom schabloner, myter och konstruktioner och hittar en helt annan vikingatid än den vi är vana vid. Bakom konstruktionen döljer sig inte en unik nordisk vikingakultur, skriver arkeologen Fredrik Svanberg i sin avhandling. Det finns flera vikingatider och perioden ingår i ett mycket större europeiskt sammanhang.''

Link: http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/p1/program/artikel.asp?ProgramID=412&artikel=604705

Dan Koehl 17:09, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Dan, I perfectly understand your point. The reason behind using the word viking for viking age scandinavians is that it reflects a common meaning. I understand that you mean well, but it is almost impossible for a person to change the English language. Even if you succeed in removing all uses of viking that you don't like, people are still going to use in articles.--Wiglaf 21:30, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I do know that, but what I try to do following all rules, is to avoid the use of the world viking, where it is used as slentrianism, without reflecting someone add the world without really reflecting on fact, and this leads to major misunderstandings and misinterpretations, which doesnt need to be.

If all words would be used with this type of generosity, we would create an extremely confused encycklopedia here. Therefore, as in all other types of historical articles, if theres qustions and doubts, it is relevant as on other places to ask for sources. And if there is no source in the whole world, mentioning Rurik is viking, then it is really questionable to name him as such.

If there has been misunderstanding regarding this word since the last 50 years, partly because its easier to sell a viking museum to the masses, compared to a norwegian medevial navy museum, then at least Wikipedia shouldnt add to this misinformation, but try to sort out what is right and what is wrong.

If lets say, a minimum of 80% of scandinavian citizens was organized in defence against vikings, during 800-1066, then its really not logical to call them vikings, only because a major part of british citzens who never read anything about vikings, ecxept children comic magazines, prefer to interpret them as vikings. At least people have the right to be informed about this, and its our responsibilty to try to inform them, not to support the misinterpretion.

Like I said, if a source mention a person or a group vikings, then we have rather large indication that they were, if the word viking nowhere were used about the person, well, then we relly dont have to add it, just as a blind routine.

Masses of ethnical human groups has been described in unproper ways, reflecting a common meaning. Sometimes according to skin color, others acording to social status, etc. Even if the whole world would know what I would mean if I put the label XXZZYY on a person, or an ethnical group, and thousand of people yesterday would call them that on a british pub yesterday, this doesnt mean that its correct that I use this term in a encyclopedia, when describing those people, or connecting tham to a description of that word, that can not be confirmed by a single source.

For more arguments, and insight in detail what I mean, see User:Dan Koehl/viking

No source confirming a person being a viking, then he was no viking! Simple as that? Dan Koehl 23:02, 26 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Dan, please make further comments here: User_talk:Wiglaf TheUnforgiven 15:10, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
Thanks Dan, for supporting my vote. I won't forget that.--Wiglaf 21:27, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome. Even if we have had different opinions, I truly belive you will honor NPOV and defend the wikipedia being misused, as I belive you will not follow the example from other admins, misusing your admin powers, in order to "win". Dan Koehl 23:05, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject History of Scandinavia
Hei! I recently joined you on WikiProject History of Scandinavia. Now there are two of us.

Noted you said "I am willing to contribute and try to get the development in a direction where written sources are the base, not sagas, personal views, or phantasy. But my English is not perfect."

My interests incline toward military history and regional history, but willing to cooperate on a broad range of topics.

And, if you’re not all that comfortable with English (although you write English well) I'm willing to copyedit any material you put up - just flag it once you post it and I’ll take a cut. Then you can confirm I didn’t change the meaning.

How can we 'jump start' WikiProject History of Scandinavia?

Williamborg 00:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!
--User:Jenmoa 14:14, 3 November 2005 (UTC)