User talk:DanielEng/filed4

Thanks again
Awesome re-working of the Milo page. Of course, you know that I, particularly, would appreciate that. Not that it's a big issue, but I guess you thought it wasn't Wikipedia-worthy to mention her having the last 9.95/higher at a Worlds? In any event, keep rockin'!!!Miloluvr (talk) 15:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I'm happy with the way the page turned out too. For the 9.95...ooops...I thought I left that in! I'll have to go back and figure out where it belongs now. It definitely should be there, especially since we're probably never going to see a score like that again anywhere outside of NCAA. :( Thanks for catching that! Best, DanielEng (talk) 20:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

As you say, you've been up to improving various gymnastics articles. Awesome job! I've done some work on the dominant teams and nations portion of the artistic gymnastics entry, adding Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Italy and doing minor-to-moderate edits elsewhere within that sub-page. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I was also thinking of adding at the end of every apparatus description on that article a brief list of noteworthy champions/innovators on each event, e.g: "Balance Beam writeup: blablablablabla.  blablablablabla.  Notable beam innovators and champions include:  Eva Bosakova, Daniela Silivas, Yang Bo" (all would be hyperlinked, of course, and limited to about 5 names for each apparatus). What do you think about that?

Cheers and Best. :)       Miloluvr (talk) 03:00, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much for stopping by and saying hello! The Olympics has gotten me very frazzled at the moment--so much to do--but it's a good sort of frazzled. :) Thank you for all your help on the artistic gymnastics article and elsewhere. I like your idea about adding notable champions, but my one worry--and it's a major one--is that it's going to be a point of contention. If there are only five names, there would probably be a lot of "why have you listed Latynina and not Korbut, this gymnast was overscored and didn't deserve to be there..." and so on. As an alternative, I think having the templates at the bottom for "Olympic champions in (event)" and "World champions in (event)" would be a good idea, because then everyone would be there and it would cut the possibility of bickering between editors who prefer this or that gymnast. I've been going through Hades trying to preserve NPOV and keeping editors from killing each other on the Alicia Sacramone, Yang Yilin, Jiang Yuyuan and He Kexin articles lately so I'm expecting the worst everywhere...


 * You know, I notice you're not a member of WikiProject Gymnastics. Come join us! It's the group of editors who are toiling away on the gymnastics articles right now, and we could always use another knowledgeable editor on board. :) Best, DanielEng (talk) 02:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I just joined. I don't know that I deserve to be a member of it, but I really thank you for the suggestion and we'll see how it goes. I like your suggestion about having templates/footers for Olympic and World Champions on various events, but, haahaaa, that would take a nice little bit of work, you realize. I did that one just for the Men's AA (World, I think) and it took me *forever* because the code was complicated and I didn't want to mess it up. Plus there's the research that I actually have to do myself, plus getting diacritical marks right, etc. But I think that I should do it and I'll be excited to do it if you think it's really worthwhile! By the way, it was a humongous ego boost to see that my Yuri Korolev article was rated "B Class" - one of only 20 something (out of more than 1000) gymnastics articles to be honoured so. Although I am shocked that Nelli Kim's article got rated as a Featured article as it isn't really that long, nor does it have pictures - ??? Anyway, here's my little emoticon and signature ---> :)    Miloluvr (talk) 09:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Another "by the way". I was wondering if you would mind either e-mailing me (my wikipedia user name at yahoo dot com) or Facebooking me (if you use facebook, then you can find me by using my just-specified e-mail address), because it would be easier to communicate that way, especially via facebook, about the things that we want to do with gymnastics on Wikipedia. Maybe we should create a Gymnastics Wikipedians on Facebook group (assuming one hasn't already been made)? Cheers again,   Miloluvr (talk) 09:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Welcome. Of course you're worthy! I sometimes don't get how or why articles are rated as FA, to be honest--it looks as though a lot of work has been done on the Nellie Kim article but all the same, I'd put it at GA instead, if it were me. Ah well. For the communication-unfortunately I don't have Facebook (and I don't want one) and I generally very much prefer to communicate via this talk page, unless there's something absolutely critical that needs to be kept private (which isn't likely with the gymnastics pages). Since the project is open to everyone, I feel that talking things over here gives others a chance to see what needs to be done, pitch in, and perhaps offer suggestions that might help. :) Best, DanielEng (talk) 15:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Power Pack
The reason I put in the "Mum and Dad" expression was a means of emphasizing the family feel of the comic and how much the kids are devoted to their parents even though they are keeping such a secret from them. I know that wikipedia is supposed to be a serious project, but it is becoming a bit too much for my liking, with a lot of the "fun" element being taken out. I had a few problems with another guy when he took out a lot of info I had provided for another series, and a certain User:David Fuchs is taking out a lot of revealing info provided by me and others, which some might find interesting, from Marvel 1602. Wikipedia is a becoming somewhat less enjoyable nowadays.--Marktreut (talk) 22:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can't blame me for trying.--Marktreut (talk) 21:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but at this point it's getting tiresome. You've already been told why it doesn't belong there, and it's just going to keep being reverted, if not by me, by others. DanielEng (talk) 01:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Gymnast Infobox
Hello, DanielEng. You are listed as a member of WikiProject Gymnastics, but the project is listed as inactive, so I am contacting you personally on your talk page.

I have been bold and created an infobox for gymnastics biographical articles. I would appreciate any and all feedback on it, including changes and corrections. I took the basic fields from the FIG profiles and the one on the Nastia Liukin article, as well as pulling ones from other athlete infoboxes. I tried to be as thorough as possible, but I'm sure that I've left some things out. :) I have put together some samples of how the infobox currently looks at User:Kolindigo/Gymnastics Infobox Test.

I would like to start implementing the infobox on gymnastics biographies in about a week to give it time to settle in and get the kinks knocked out before the Olympics. Please come by, take a look, and make any changes you think would help. Kolindigo (talk) 05:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Kolindigo, thank you for your note! The work you have done on the infobox is amazing...I very much like it, and absolutely think it should be added to the gymnastics articles here. I prefer the one without the height and music, just because those things can change, but honestly, it's awesome work all the way around. I'm going to start adding it to articles now. If there's anything I can help with, please drop me a note anytime. Best, DanielEng (talk) 00:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

DYK Nomination
Hi. I've nominated Age controversies in gymnastics, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know, where you can improve it if you see fit. Thanks, Kolindigo (talk) 01:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, that's awesome. Thank you for nominating it. The hook is great as is, IMHO. :) Best, DanielEng (talk) 01:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Age controversies in gymnastics
In addition, it is also one the "did you know..." statements listed on Portal:Gymnastics which I've recently set up. -- ratarsed (talk) 16:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Nastia Liukin
No problem, it's my pleasure. I share your frustration at the repeated "fixes" to make it "All-Around". For reference, do you recall where there was a discussion about why names of Olympic events are not capitalized in article titles (except for proper nouns like Greco-Roman)? I think it was in the Olympic project. Thanks, PhilipR (talk) 05:46, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! You know, I don't know...I've been using lower case for the events because that's the standard in gymnastics all the time in all the media, score reports, official documentation, etc. It's good to know there's also an official Wiki stance on it. I will have to hunt for that now. If I find it I will give you a heads up. :) DanielEng (talk) 06:06, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you on the image. I just picked one to get rid of the copyvio. Calebrw (talk) 01:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for stepping in there so quickly to replace the copyvio. I usually don't notice these things until there's a big red link where the images once were. :) DanielEng (talk) 01:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Please review your rm in He Kexin article
(ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=He_Kexin&diff=235781291&oldid=235781101) I don't see Minister Cui's statement, nor IOC president Rogge's statement as "already in the article". After you rm neither fact exists in the article. Please put them back. Bobby fletcher (talk) 10:31, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm moving this discussion to the article's Talk Page where it belongs; please follow the discussion there. Thanks. DanielEng (talk) 10:35, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

New section:Tinbin
Hi, DanielEng. I am writing here not because I want to vandalise or argue or something like that. you can deleted my comments here after reading this. I just wanna tell you that I don't understand the rules here. I don't know what is 3RR and when I found that my account is disabled and I just open another one. I have no intention to break any rules. You said I caused trouble during the discussion on Deng, but I never did any edits on Deng's page or any others because I tried to follow the rules here and I just wanted to discuss it and present my arguments on only the talk page. For the chinese sources, I discussed with you first before adding them because again, I didn't want to break any rule, that is why I asked first. But all of a sudden I was informed that they needed to be erased after all those research and difficult translation I did. And no one ever offered me any help but just deleting them. Those chinese sources are really all respectable and verified sources from respectable chinese media (some of them are from sohu, yahoo china.) and those news are widely covered by the media in China. And again, I tried my best to follow the rules by adding original texts to the footnotes and that is hard work. All I did was just try to give more information to Jiang's page on her career and personal life and they are not even under any controversy. For instance, her gymnastics career would be more informative if you know that from the point that she started gymnastics to the point she entered the national team. I really think that is much better than the current writing which is not very detailed at all. I might be a very stubborn person but I just want to let you know that I argued but I did try very hard to follow the rules here. I am new here and may not understand all the acronyms that all the editors gave me and it seems that I don't really understand the wikipeida's rules. Anyway, I really hope that you are what you said you are that you are not biased. If you really wanna talk back. email me tinbin@she.com. Regards Tinbin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.49.41.96 (talk) 10:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. Understood. And thank you for your message here. I do want you to know that nobody here was trying to attack you personally or had anything against you personally. I do think you mean well and that you just want to add information on a gymnast you like a lot. I also understand that you are new. We all were new to Wiki once, and we all have done things when we first joined Wikipedia that we might not do later on. It's not the end of the world.


 * I do think, though, that a lot of editors like me have been frustrated because we've tried to show you the policies and you haven't seemed to listen. For instance, with the WP:3RR, one editor left you a warning on your page and I also warned you on the Talk Page of Yuyuan's article and gave you the link so you could read about the policy (any blue link can be clicked on to read). Basically, it stands for "3 revert rule" and what it means is that you can't revert an article any more than three times in a day. If you're working on an article and you need to edit it to add things or work on it, that's okay, but you can't undo other people over and over again. If you've reverted on one account and you are blocked, you can't go into another account and keep going. Which is why you've run into trouble tonight.


 * The block on your main account, Tinbin, will be over in 3 days. You will be able to use it again then. What I would suggest is that we all take a break from this, chill out and get away from it, and in 3 days, we all get together on the Yuyuan Talk Page and try to figure out what to do. If there's something about the sources that can be done, we can try to work together to figure it out. I'm sure Ratsared and some of the other editors would be willing to sit in. I don't know if anything can be done, but we can talk about it again. And of course, you're welcome to suggest things, and if you don't understand something we've said or need to know about a policy and you want it explained more, please ask and we can try. Best, DanielEng (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, DanielEng. I did and will try my best to follow the rules. For last time I write on your talk page without login in, I would like you to see this info from NBC Olympics website on Jiang. http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=686/bio/index.html. It has information on Jiang which is very similar to my writings. Tinbin


 * Hi Tinbin. I've added as much of the content as I can from that NBC article to Jiang's page. If English-language sources exist for anything else, it will make everyone's life much, much easier, because we can just work from those INSTEAD of the Chinese language publications. That might mean certain things get lost in translation, but it will also save everyone the fights over what is accurate and what is not.


 * In the meantime, there's some stuff on the Talk Page you can look at in preparation for your return. One of the main concerns is that the information in the article doesn't match the footnotes. For instance, one example we have is this: In the article, it says At the beginning of her career at the national team, Jiang would use little tricks to take breaks during training, and the most effective way to make her train honestly was nothing else but to confiscate her prize money. The quote given in the footnote is 江钰源是个平时训练爱耍些小聪明，偷些小懒的队员. When we run that through Babelfish we get Jiang Yuyuan is usually trains likes playing a cleverness in trivial matters, steals a young lazy member. That's pretty confusing and doesn't seem to match the English content. There's also a passage about Jiang being from a poor family, and the quote given is: 但经济压力是个不可回避的问题. 一家人只有江涛有工作，而他在1996年下岗后，每月只有100多元的工资 but Babelfish translates that to But the economic pressures are an unevadable question. The whole family only then Jiang Taoyou works, but he came off sentry duty after 1996, every month had more than 100 Yuan wages. Unless it says out-and-out that the family is poor, we can't really say one way or the other from that. There's another quote that says her Dad is a taxi driver, but again, we can't say he's poor or not from that.


 * What I'm going to suggest is that a) we look for English sources first. I've done a Google search myself but have not come up with much. b) we make sure that every footnote is exactly accurate to what it says in English. c) we look over the paragraphs and try to decide what can go and what can stay in terms of BLP vio. Does that sound like a plan? See you in a few days. Best, DanielEng (talk) 04:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

New section
'''From NBC website: Jiang began her gymnatics training at age four and was taken to Guangxi Sports Training School a few years later. After one year training in that school, Jiang was picked for the Guangxi Gymnastics Team. However, the coaches there sent her back to the training school one month later because they didn't think Jiang was strong enough.'''

''My version: Li Ning's cousin was Jiang's neighbour when she was little. After noticing that the little Jiang Yuyuan was very energetic for a little kid, he suggested Jiang's parents to take her to gymnastic lessons. And her parents took his suggestion and enrolled Jiang in gymnastic classes before she was four. She was once selected by the Guangxi Provincial Team to participate in a three-month training camp but her parents received a call from the Provincial Team asking them to bring Jiang home less than two months after the training began. Her coach at that time insisted that Jiang has talent and persuade Jiang's parents to leave Jiang under her care and she would train Jiang personally. But it would be an dead end for a gymnast's career in China if one could not join the Provincial Team, so when opportunity came, Jiang was transferred from Guangxi to join the Zhejiang Provincial Team.''

'''From NBC website: When she's not in the gym, Jiang enjoys listening to American and European pop music, reading magazines and watching tennis. She's also an avid photographer and a fan of Chinese hurdler Liu Xiang.'''

''My version: Jiang has a keen interest in digital gadgets, especially digital cameras. She also loves sport cars, reading magazines on fashions, cosmetics and digital gadgets, listening to western pop music and taking photographs of the others.''

'''From NBC website: At age five, Jiang saw her dad in the stands of a competition, and she fell off the beam. Now, Jiang doesn't let her parents watch her compete in person because she says it makes her too nervous.'''

''My version: When Jiang was five, she fell from the Balance Beam when she saw her parents watching her from the grandstand at a junior gymnastics competition. After that, she never let her parents watch her compete.''

NBC even has the part about Jiang being the assistance captain of the team, which I knew but forgot to include in the my writing.

I put this down not because of arguments but asking for help. I hope that you can, under Wikpedia rules, help me to prove that those Chinese sources are indeed verifiable and reliable, and that even NBC has the similar information (actually, I suspect they translated from the same sources that I used). Thanks. See you on Jiang's talk page later. From Tinbin.

I want to add some information to Jiang Yuyuan's Gymnastics career Section, like the year she transferred to the National Team and how her elbow injury affecting her performance in the Vault competition as claimed by her coach. The sources are all in Chinese. Does Wikipedia accept Chinese sources? Tinbin (talk) 07:27, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


 * English language sources are preferred, but we can also use Chinese sources, as long as they meet the WP:RS guidelines. If it's a written source in any of the known Chinese newspapers, Xinhua news service, etc. that should be completely fine to use. I can format the sources into the proper ref tags for the article if you can give me the title of the article, the title of the source, the author, and the date it was published, etc. DanielEng (talk) 10:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

/Sandbox

Created Some Templates
Hey again, buddy (if I may call you that). I just got through (it took remarkably little time to do it once I got all my ducks in a row) creating footers for all individual event champions at the World Championships for Women's Artistic Gymnastics. It will take more work to add them to all the appropriate gymnast bio pages which is why I am writing you first. Some questions:


 * 1) Is there some quicker way of having a bot do it (adding them to the pages)?  I dunno nuthin' 'bout no bots.
 * 2) Do you think they're warranted?
 * 3) If I can't get around to all of it, would you like to help?  You could do one or two of the events.
 * 4) Do you have any more comments/suggestions?

If your response is overall pretty positive, then I'll do the men, also. However, seeing that they have 6 events (as compared to the women's 4 events), their championships extend back to 1903 (instead of 1934), and I'm less familiar with them (making sure I get names right w/ diacritical marks and finding pre-existing pages for them if they exist), it will be twice the work or maybe even more, which is why the women were a trial run.

Also, I have never found evidence that EFs were awarded for women in 1934 and there is conflicting data for 1938. I can't seem to get on the FIG website to verify either, therefore I am leaving them blank for now.

Here are the templates for your easy reference (you can proofread/check if you want - HAAHAA):

Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsWomenVault Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsWomenUnevenBars Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsWomenBalanceBeam Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsWomenFloorExercise

Please let me hear from you. I hope you're doing well.

Best,

Miloluvr (talk) 16:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey Miloluvr, thank you for your message. :) I really like the idea of the footers for the event medalists--I think they're very needed and a welcome addition to the pages. It also gives us a really easy way to see who still needs an article written--IMHO a World Champion should never be a red link, and when we see them we can work on them. Well done. :) I'm starting to add them to the articles now--I will start with FX and go backwards from there. I'm honestly not sure what's what with the 1930s Worlds either, to be honest. I always pretty much think of it all starting in the 1950s. :)


 * I hope you're doing well. Take care! Best, DanielEng (talk) 01:56, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey again! That's awesome!  Thanks so much for the affirmation.  I'll start to work on the men now, and you can add the footers/templates to people at your own pace (thanks so much for agreeing to help with that), and if by the time I'm done with the men's there's still more to be added, then I can work on that also.  It's totally criminal that Keiko Tanaka doesn't have her own page yet, but that was actually the next bio I was going to write up once I got off my lazy butt.  Stoyanova, too.    And many others.  And others who need to have more than just little stubs (e. g. Misutin).  I'd also like to turn all those red World Championship links to blue (1900s/1910s to 1950s) and get them totally developed.  You're awesome.


 * Best,
 * Miloluvr (talk) 05:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * My pleasure! I actually went ahead and made a stub for Stoyanova, because I still couldn't get my head around the fact that she didn't have a page. :) Let me know when you're good with the men's templates and I'll go ahead and add them for you. I think it's probably one of those things that technically could be done with a bot, but I'll confess that I know nada about them either. You're most awesome too. Take care! DanielEng (talk) 05:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I can't believe how quickly you have done all of that adding! As well as doing a stub or two or more.  I am working on the men's templates now.  I've written 2 out of 6 of them.  They're definitely taking longer.  *eek*.  Will send to you when I'm done with all of them - hopefully today, but no guarantees.  If both of us add them to the bios, you can go in backwards olympic order from High Bar - Parallel Bars - Vault, and I can go forwards in olympic order from Floor - Pommel Horse - Rings.
 * Best again,
 * Miloluvr (talk) 16:05, 12 September 2008 (UTC)


 * 4 out of 6 done!
 * Miloluvr (talk) 18:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Created Some More Templates!!!
'''Voila! Done during my down time at work today!'''

*Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sFloorExercise *Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sPommelHorse *Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sStillRings *Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sVault *Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sParallelBars *Template:NavigationWorldChampionsArtisticGymnasticsMen’sHorizontalBar

As I said before, if you also want to help post these, then please do it in backwards olympic order.

We're gonna rock this project, baby!!! Miloluvr (talk) 21:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, I added the templates, just because I wanted the glory of doing so, to the male gymnasts who have won the most of each of the 6: Vitaly Scherbo, Boris Shakhlin, Dmitry Bilozerchev, and Akinori Nakayama.  If you help out and you want to make it easier on yourself, just copy and paste from Scherbo, because he is the only one who has all 6, and delete what each gymnast doesn't need.

Lotsa red, too. :(

Cheers,

Miloluvr (talk) 21:58, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Me, yet again. I made sure that all of the existing pages for world and Olympic individual champions for women and all world champions for men had all appropriate footers/templates on them. I still have to double-check men's olympic champions. Thanks so much for your help and encouragement with this.

It doesn't seem like the wikigroup is very active. Maybe if I posted there what I've posted to you lately, it would have gotten a response - ? It's just that I trust your judgment...

Anyway, I was wondering where things should go from here. I do have some ideas.


 * I would like to do Euros (create competition pages for those), and that was my first idea, but I think there are some more important things first.


 * I do think that the World Championship pages should be filled in (1905 - 1950, I think are the lacking years), and I can probably figure out how to do that - it's just that it looks like a lot of work. I do intend on doing it, however.


 * I was also thinking of making a set of pages for the list of medalists in World Championships. Maybe that already exists...i'll have to double check.


 * Another thing I think could be essential would be a couple of pages made for # of medals in gymnastics in Olympics, by count per gymnast, as well as for Worlds. Also maybe one combined for Worlds & Olympics.  I can *easily* come up with all of those figures, ranked by count and in order, because of a particular database I've constructed.  I could even break them down by aa vs. event finals as well as by particular event final.  Since this stuff is easily verifiable (FIG website, Gymn-Forum, etc.) and because it can easily be displayed factually on a few pages in Wikipedia, it could really help in making bio pages for the greater gymnasts in history more persuasive.  It would make what seems like OR to seem much less like OR because things would be even more easily verifiable and accessible.  This could more easily help document/footnote claims in certain bios and make it easier to justify certain statements of fact and certain comparisons in different bio pages.


 * Also, I guess more bio pages are in order, especially for people like Korobchinsky and Tanaka. It'd be great just to have all the links in my footers blue, because they are all individual world/olympic champions, however I am skeptical about just creating a bunch of stubs for each of them.  Some gymnasts are deserving of more than just a stub, and with a link no longer being red, there isn't as much alarm that something needs to be worked on.  So I'm thinking taking them one gymnast by another, the most important first, and actually creating something *at least* start class (I took Korolev straight from "no article" to B-class) for some of the more important ones like Korobchinsky and Tanaka and a few others, instead of merely just creating a stub - not like a carpetbombing approach.  Then perhaps on to the rest that haven't been made yet.  And some articles that are still stubs need to be taken to much higher classes.  IIRC, Bilozerchev's article was truly a stub, whereas he is so legendary and great (there goes my POV...haha) and should have, I think, an A-class or maybe even GA bio page.

Just let me know what you think when you have a chance. You are free to copy anything I say, of course, to the wikigroup, and bring it up there.

Cheers, Miloluvr (talk) 19:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Nastia Liukin
Hi Daniel,

I edited the Nastia Liukin page to include her Russian Orthodox beliefs, but I am not sure how to reference it. I know you added to that topic on her talk page, so maybe you have your own, different reference? Would you mind adding it to the article? I already added the information under the "Family" section, but feel free to edit it if you can say it in a better way. Thanks!

Ken Kenneth971 (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey Ken, thanks for your message. :) The info has been added and cited to the article. Thank you! :) DanielEng (talk) 01:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

User:Tinbin
Please poke me if he does it again, I'll protect the article :). -- lucasbfr  talk 07:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for stepping in here, Lucas. Unfortunately, he's back. Best, DanielEng (talk) 07:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There we go. I've protected the page for 3 days and reblocked the main account. Grmbl... Hopefully that'll be enough. -- lucasbfr  talk 08:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I hope this will be enough too. He does seem determined, I'll give him that much. Best, DanielEng (talk) 08:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)