User talk:DanielPenfield/Archives/2017

February 15: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Your feedback matters: Final reminder to take the global Wikimedia survey
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March 11: Art+Feminism Edit-a-thon @ MoMA (and beyond!)
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Sunday March 26: Action=History Wiki-Hackathon @ Ace Hotel
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April 19: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Request for images (Spring in New York)
Hi Daniel, Thanks for your Request for images at WikiProject New York. I've added a couple and created a new 'Spring in Syracuse, New York' subcategory. Will keep my eye out for more opportunities. Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 20:34, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for supporting the cause category! It looks like Syracuse is in the same boat as Rochester—with the late season wind and snowstorms, the plants are being very conservative about blooming.  I took a number of photos on Easter Sunday, but they don't seem worth uploading.  I expect prime photo opportunities to emerge in the next couple of weeks. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 06:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Sunday May 21: Metropolitan Museum of Art Edit-a-thon + global online challenge
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May 24: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Record Labels - wikiprojects
You've been removing WikiProject Business for a lot of record labels with the edit summary "if it's in record labels, it doesn't need to be in business". It's not a big deal, but I'm not entirely sure this is the correct course of action, as WikiProject Record Labels is under WikiProject Music, not WikiProject Business. Therefore I think perhaps that leaving WP Business may be appropriate, as there may be editors interested in the business end and not the music end, particularly for the larger labels which were significant business concerns. I welcome your thoughts on the matter. 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 13:22, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Your statement !! My response
 * You've been removing WikiProject Business for a lot of record labels || Yes, in addition to adding place and music genre WikiProjects as those are about 100,000 times more likely to connect editors with an interest in those articles.
 * with the edit summary "if it's in record labels, it doesn't need to be in business" || That's right, I believe that articles about record labels should not be cross-listed in WikiProject Business.
 * I'm not entirely sure this is the correct course of action, as WikiProject Record Labels is under WikiProject Music, not WikiProject Business. || I can see that you are confused about who defines the scope of WikiProject Business. Per WP:PROJSCOPE, A WikiProject's participants define the scope of their project, which includes defining an article as being outside the scope of the project.  As a corollary, WikiProject Record Labels doesn't define the scope of WikiProject Business, nor does WikiProject Business define the scope of WikiProject Record Labels.
 * as there may be editors interested in the business end and not the music end, particularly for the larger labels which were significant business concerns || Yes, the world might someday develop into a utopia in which thousands of defunct record labels somehow throw open their long-shuttered doors to researchers "with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" who then labor for years producing fully fact-checked "reliable, third-party, published sources" that describe their business practices. Until that new day dawns, however, editors interested in Business as a general topic must wade through thousands of articles about record labels before arriving at articles actually about Business.
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 14:39, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure this is the correct course of action, as WikiProject Record Labels is under WikiProject Music, not WikiProject Business. || I can see that you are confused about who defines the scope of WikiProject Business. Per WP:PROJSCOPE, A WikiProject's participants define the scope of their project, which includes defining an article as being outside the scope of the project.  As a corollary, WikiProject Record Labels doesn't define the scope of WikiProject Business, nor does WikiProject Business define the scope of WikiProject Record Labels.
 * as there may be editors interested in the business end and not the music end, particularly for the larger labels which were significant business concerns || Yes, the world might someday develop into a utopia in which thousands of defunct record labels somehow throw open their long-shuttered doors to researchers "with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" who then labor for years producing fully fact-checked "reliable, third-party, published sources" that describe their business practices. Until that new day dawns, however, editors interested in Business as a general topic must wade through thousands of articles about record labels before arriving at articles actually about Business.
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 14:39, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 14:39, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Thursday June 22: Wiki Loves Pride Edit-a-thon @ MoMA
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Sunday July 9: WikNYC Picnic @ Governors Island
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July 19: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Sunday July 30: Action=History Wiki-Hackathon @ Ace Hotel
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August 30: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Thank you! --EGalvez (WMF) (talk) 19:25, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

George E. P. Box
The citation was not removed; rather, it was improved. For an explanation, see the edit summary. 86.178.35.45 (talk) 11:34, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Your claim ! My response
 * The citation was not removed || That appears to be a bald-faced lie for both the original removal and the subsequent removal.
 * rather, it was improved || Only if you're small-minded enough to believe that providing a single citation is equivalent to claiming that that person only said or wrote an idea once.
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 12:00, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF VANDALISM OR LYING. 86.178.35.45 (talk) 12:01, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * If you are so stupid you cannot read, then find someone else to do it for you. There is an entire article about the topic: All models are wrong. The citation that was given in the article about George E. P. Box was incorrect. I made the Box article link to the article on the topic, which gives correct citations.86.178.35.45 (talk) 12:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * If you are so stupid you cannot read, then find someone else to do it for you. There is an entire article about the topic: All models are wrong. The citation that was given in the article about George E. P. Box was incorrect. I made the Box article link to the article on the topic, which gives correct citations.86.178.35.45 (talk) 12:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Your claim ! My response
 * DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF VANDALISM OR LYING || Then don't behave like a liar or a vandal.
 * If you are so stupid you cannot read, then find someone else to do it for you || So, you've removed the citation a third time in less than forty minutes.
 * The citation that was given in the article about George E. P. Box was incorrect || In what way is it incorrect?
 * I made the Box article link to the article on the topic || That appears to be yet another falsehood. User:Duncan.Hull linked to All models are wrong back in 2015.  And the link was present in the version immediately preceding your first and second removals of the citation.
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 12:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The citation that was given in the article about George E. P. Box was incorrect || In what way is it incorrect?
 * I made the Box article link to the article on the topic || That appears to be yet another falsehood. User:Duncan.Hull linked to All models are wrong back in 2015.  And the link was present in the version immediately preceding your first and second removals of the citation.
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 12:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * } -- DanielPenfield (talk) 12:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

I politely ask to you read the article All models are wrong. Afterwards, if you still disagree with the edit that I was making, kindly explain your reason. 86.178.35.45 (talk) 12:21, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You removed a reference. The comment that accompanies your original edit, "Box said this many times, as the wikilinked article "All models are wrong" details", implies that you believe one reference ≡ he only said it once, a position you find yourself alone in taking.  When faced with the choice, you could have provided multiple sources to emphasize that he made the "all models are wrong" claim multiple times so that readers can WP:V directly in George E. P. Box, but instead you chose to delete, leaving your replacement text without reference.  -- DanielPenfield (talk) 07:23, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

I have created a new section about this on the article's Talk page: Talk:George_E._P._Box. The section includes a sci WP:Request for Comment. 86.178.35.45 (talk) 09:07, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

September 27: WikiWednesday Salon / Wikimedia NYC Annual Meeting
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 * P.S. On the weekend before the annual meeting, you can join: Action=History @ Ace Hotel (Sunday, September 24, 2017)

Article assessments
I noticed you have been bulk-assessing articles related to companies and business. For example, you assessed Nitin Nohria as "stub" (very little meaningful content) and Tata Power, India's largest integrated power company, as "start" (some meaningful content, but most readers will need more) and "low" for each of WikiProject Companies (minor subsidiary or local small business), WikiProject Energy and WikiProject India (of little importance to this project). These ratings do not seem to conform to the guidelines. You may want to review Assessing articles before doing more of these assessments. Poorly considered evaluations can be damaging to Wikipedia. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 22:22, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess it's all which column of WikiProject assessment you choose as the criteria against which to assess the article:
 * {|class=wikitable

! Class !! What you chose to interpret as the sole overriding criterion (a.k.a. the "Reader's experience" column) !! What the "criteria" column from WikiProject assessment actually says
 * Stub || "Very little meaningful content" || "A very basic description of the topic."
 * Start || "Some meaningful content, but most readers will need more" || "An article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete. It might or might not cite adequate reliable sources."
 * } Perhaps instead of accusing me of "damaging Wikipedia", you should take up the task of reconciling the apparent inconsistencies between the "Criteria" and the "Reader's experience" columns in WikiProject assessment. Or you could edit Nitin Nohria to bring it up to an unambiguously "Start" class.  At 304 words (approximately 16 sentences) "readable prose size", it's on the short side.  As for Tata Power, it stood unassessed for WP:WikiProject Companies for seven years before I got to it.  That's seven years in which you could have stepped in and assessed it to suit your preference, but apparently couldn't be bothered.  And now seven years later you're going to scold me for assessing these articles contrary to your wishes?  You can't even say what class or importance you think they should be.  Regarding the "Low" importance, User:Beagle assessed that for WP:WikiProject Energy back in 2010 and User:KuwarOnline assessed for WP:WikiProject India similarly a month later.  Are you actually WP:Here to build an encyclopedia or are you here for the emotional reward you get from inventing "villains" where there are none?  -- (talk) 03:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Start || "Some meaningful content, but most readers will need more" || "An article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete. It might or might not cite adequate reliable sources."
 * } Perhaps instead of accusing me of "damaging Wikipedia", you should take up the task of reconciling the apparent inconsistencies between the "Criteria" and the "Reader's experience" columns in WikiProject assessment. Or you could edit Nitin Nohria to bring it up to an unambiguously "Start" class.  At 304 words (approximately 16 sentences) "readable prose size", it's on the short side.  As for Tata Power, it stood unassessed for WP:WikiProject Companies for seven years before I got to it.  That's seven years in which you could have stepped in and assessed it to suit your preference, but apparently couldn't be bothered.  And now seven years later you're going to scold me for assessing these articles contrary to your wishes?  You can't even say what class or importance you think they should be.  Regarding the "Low" importance, User:Beagle assessed that for WP:WikiProject Energy back in 2010 and User:KuwarOnline assessed for WP:WikiProject India similarly a month later.  Are you actually WP:Here to build an encyclopedia or are you here for the emotional reward you get from inventing "villains" where there are none?  -- (talk) 03:06, 23 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Although the article on Nitin Nohria is short it gives a reasonable sketch of the individual's career, is well-sourced, well-written, and may meet the needs of most readers, who typically just want to know "who is this guy?" Arguably it is "C" class. "Short" does not mean "Stub".
 * Each project has different importance criteria. The WikiProject Companies/Assessment defines "Low" as "Companies in this category are minor subsidiaries or local small businesses." That surely does not describe Tata Power. The WikiProject India/Assessment defines "Low" as "This article is of little importance to this project, but it covers a highly specific area of knowledge or an obscure piece of trivia." Again, this surely does not describe Tata Power.
 * Ignoring the project guidelines and assessing articles as poorer quality and lower importance than they deserve has the effect of discouraging editors. Better not to assess them at all. Aymatth2 (talk) 11:51, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

September 2017
Hello, I'm John from Idegon. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Eastridge High School that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. ''Do not presume to know another editors motivation. If you would please take it to the article talk page and discuss edits, not editors, it will be much more productive. Again, I've not behaved uncivilly with you, despite your accusations. Discussing the quality of a picture you submitted is in no way personal, except apparently to you. You're blowing thus up into a major thing caused me to look closer at the article, which was severely problematic. I articulated my reasons for every edit I made. You have every right to disagree, but you will need a better reason than some essay and your incorrect assessment of my motivation. '' John from Idegon (talk) 08:29, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Sunday October 15: Wikipedia @ Open House New York / Weekend Photo Competition
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October 18: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Biographies of filmmakers
Hello! Just a reminder that the Film project does not cover biography articles. Therefore, instead of adding the WikiProject Film banner to articles about actors, directors and filmmakers, those articles are covered by adding yes to WikiProject Biography instead. This applies to all of the film task forces as well, which means that the American cinema task force does not include articles about American actors, directors and filmmakers, and consequently should not have the yes parameter on the WikiProject United States banner. Thanks! Fortdj33 (talk) 12:04, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Template:WikiProject United States/doc makes no mention of this. You could modify it to reflect this preference.  -- DanielPenfield (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Two weeks later, Template:WikiProject United States/doc still makes no mention of this. How much are research are you going to require editors to undertake to "properly" place articles?  -- DanielPenfield (talk) 01:09, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The documentation page for WikiProject United States already says that the parameter yes should only be used "if the article is supported by American cinema task force". And the scope of American cinema task force has been modified, to reflect that it doesn't cover biography articles. With all due respect, it is not my responsibility to make sure people are familiar with the scope of a project, before they add articles to that project. Fortdj33 (talk) 01:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Metropolitan Museum of Art Edit-a-thon (Nov 19) and global online Wikipedia Asian Art Month (Nov 1-30)
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