User talk:Darkness Shines/Archive 9

Talkback

 * Would someone be so kind to write thank you across to Malik's talk page for me? Darkness Shines (talk) 06:37, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:28, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Nangparbat
Please revert and block. Darkness Shines (talk) 11:13, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I reverted few of them, I just felt that the rest can stay.-sarvajna (talk) 11:25, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Blocked. I'll let others handle the reverts. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you guys, if any passing admin feels like unblocking me it would be appreciated, working on articles offline is a pain But for now, a nice cold pint awaits me. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:04, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! neo (talk) 20:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Fai zan  07:48, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

NHN
One day he will be desysop'ed. The list of problems is growing and has been noted off-wiki by various admins and even an arb. - Sitush (talk) 09:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have changed the template so it is quite clear that it is issued by a non admin. Nick is just another civil POV pusher and timewaster. Notice how he added a CN tag here, no need for it, it was a pure time wasting excercise. Notice how he has not added any to the editwarred in non consensus version here? His MO is blatantly obvious. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, his POV-enabling has been noted by those I refer to above. That is the single biggest concern. - Sitush (talk) 09:59, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

RP talk page
What do you think about my comment? I probably dont deserve another chance but I reckon this time I am serious and with Mrt blocked for a while I wont feel the need to continuously check and retaliate against his POV pushing 109.145.249.101 (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Unblock II

 * Quite clearly not punitive - it's protecting the project from you going off and calling people nationalists and/or pricks. We have a concept of escalating blocks - as you well know - to prevent repeat offenders.  Clearly, longer protection is needed since this keeps happening again and again and again.  If this was the first time, you might be forgiven quickly (✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 22:18, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

BTW, DS, I modified your 'awareness' note here. If you preferred the original wording, let me know and I'll revert. --regentspark (comment) 00:29, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine mate. Re your unblock notice, I am not about to beg to be unblocked it has been three months since I last lost my temper and cussed someone out so the block is obviously punitive. Personally I thought I had improved upon my demeanour a great deal since I flipped at andy. Darkness Shines (talk) 05:44, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that two weeks is excessive. Escalating blocks should be applied only when incivility is used to harass or intimidate which was not the case here. 24 hours would have been more appropriate but, as with everything, there are differing opinions on how to deal with the f word and the p word so ....!
 * That and the fact Bwil is not my biggest fan Darkness Shines (talk) 14:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, are you suggesting that I have something against you, or are actually holding some form of grudge? I cannot fathom where a lie bizarre concept like that would come from (✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course not, it's a joke . Darkness Shines (talk) 15:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In view of the fact you called me a liar above (you wrote the strike same time as you did the post, so it is obvious what you meant) and now seem to think my pointing out a sockpuppet, section blanking and asking someone to say thank you is "distasteful" then I figure you do not have a high opinion of me at all. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:23, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, would you be so kind as to remove these personal attacks which have again been restored. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:13, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you!

 * Lets forget the harsh memories and lets start a new era. I regret if I hurt you by even mistake(Whatever I know I don't hurt). Fai  zan  15:09, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, nom nom nom. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:09, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Fai zan  15:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless you plan to come around to my place and kick me square in the nuts I do not see how you can hurt me I really should not have cussed you out, sorry about that. BTW a great deal of content has been blanked  Nobody seemed to have noticed it. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:29, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Reverted. No worries!  Fai  zan  15:34, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Unblock please

 * I have sometimes blocked myself when I feel I am about to lose my temper, and it works like a charm. Cussing out Mrt. is a very bad thing to do and you should know better! But yes two weeks is excessive, especially given that Mrt3366 is consistently asking for that kind of response.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Just because someone asks for it does not really excuse my giving it to them, problam is since Mrt used a racial slur against another editor my patience with him has been running on empty. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:00, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is despicable, even for my standard.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 12:33, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It was despicable - and should have been dealt with in early April when it happened, then forgotten about unless repeated. Dredging up 2 month old offences to excuse a current behaviour of your own?  Really? (✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 12:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Issues with understanding what I wrote? Where in my post did I say this was the reason for what I said? I said my patience with him has been running on empty since then, his denial of pograms and other POV pushs was what made me lose my temper. And it is actually a past behaviour of mine, not current as it happened a week ago, cheers. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:54, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I give you credit for having a stronger command of the English language that you just showed ... care to re-read/re-parse? (✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 12:59, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, sorry but which part do you not get? Mrt said something he ought not have, since then I have had little time for his POV pushing and his flat out denial of there having been pogroms in India caused me to lose my temper. Seems clear enough to me. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed with DS, I solemnly support an unblock. MrT should also take care, especially while dealing with Subcontinent related articles. Fai  zan  06:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Kudpung's decline
or the record, I disagree with Kudpung's statement at the unblock request. Blocks are not meant to be punitive and should be used only when an editor is being disruptive. Merely using an f word or p word, or calling someone a nationalist is disruptive only when it is used to harass or intimidate. In this case, Mr. T and DS have a history of give and take and there is no question that there is no intimidation or harassment. The block itself was a bad idea and wouldn't have happened if DS had fessed up immediately, two weeks is way too long for something like this, and talking about a series of escalating blocks ending up with an indefinite block is administrative overkill. Just because we have the power doesn't mean we have to use it. --regentspark (comment) 13:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that RP, I still think I could be unblocked to work in userspace and not touch mainspace until such a time as the block has expired or an admin says I may. That would hardly kill anyone would it. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:21, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

To do
Recovered files show Modi complicit in Gujarat pogrom Darkness Shines (talk) 17:20, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

1971 Bangladesh genocide moved against a hard won consensus. Darkness Shines (talk) 06:36, 2 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Dude no, The genocide took place in East Pakistan right? Obviously after the formation of BN, the Pak Army had surrendered, then how even after the secession, Pak Army could massacre Bengalis?. I expect a mature attitude from you in this aspect. Ask those Biharis murdered in the conflict, why even a mention was not there in the lead about them? Due to their cheap blood? Fai  zan  06:40, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * We go by common name, and the consensus was for the 1971 Bangladesh genocide. If you wanted to move it you should have done a RM. But the article does require a lot of work, if I ever get unblocked that was third on my list. Darkness Shines (talk) 06:44, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I did a technical one, the discussion which you are citing is on another perspective. I am concerned with the territory, not the atrocities. The fact is that the genocide of the Bengalis and Biharis took place on East Pakistan. As usual, the territorial title should be assigned. Fai  zan  06:47, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It does not matter, once unblocked I will move it back and you can do a RM. Read WP:COMMONNAME. Darkness Shines (talk) 06:51, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I will pray for your unblock  Fai  zan  06:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * So much for prayers. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Nangparbat again
Darkness Shines (talk) 21:24, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That IP's contributions are constructive. Why you see Nangparbat everywhere? Fai  zan  08:40, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * even the location seems certain DS....UK! ;)   Strike   Σagle    08:49, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Faizan, I know it is him cos of this. And I do not see him everywere, only where he is. You can let the edits stand, or not. Strike, no doubt at all this is Nang Darkness Shines (talk) 09:07, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, now I see why Faizan asked what he did, he gave Nang a cookie and asked him to create an account. Do not worry Faizan, he creates accounts all the time Darkness Shines (talk) 09:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Fai zan  09:58, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Unblock request again

 * (ec)DS, the block is justifiable not because you lost your temper or said a 'bad thing' to Mrt but because you did that and then tried to justify it on ANI. I agree it is excessive and I think the application of escalating blocks and statements about indef blocks is overreaching. If you modify your block request with the right words (I'm not going to tell you what to say), I'll unblock you. But please note that the block itself was justified. --regentspark (comment) 13:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I know the block was justified, I never said it was not. I was a twat and got what a twat usually gets. I think it too long, given I have not lost my temper for months. I was wrong, I admitted it, hell I said on AN I was wrong to call him a prick. I have no idea what to write here, apparently admitting fault is not enough. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * You said The block is purely punitive in that it is being kept in place to "teach me a lesson". The block wasn't purely punitive (though keeping it on might now be). But, I'm not going to get all semantic on you. As long as you recognize that the block was justified, we're ok. Since you say that it was, I'll unblock you. But, be careful in future. As you might have noticed, not all admins are as loathe to see editors blocked as I am :) --regentspark (comment) 14:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:37, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Total casualties
Was wondering that if we sum up the casualties of these pogroms for a DYK? Fai zan  15:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * 10000 since 1950 from a source I read yesterday, however for the DYK I was going to go with "Since partition these pogroms have been endemic in India" Darkness Shines (talk) 15:09, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * A mention of casualties needed in the DYK? Fai  zan  15:10, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Will try and recall the source, I read a lot of books and papers over the last few days. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good work. I will nominate it if provided with the source. Looks like you are quite interested in pogroms-related articles, may provide you with a new task regarding Biharis. Fai  zan  15:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sourced and is the last line in the last paragraph in the lede. All human rights abuses article interest me, set you task. I can fix the MB and 71 genocide articles later. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:20, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will fill the nomination for DYK tomorrow, I think the limit is within 5 days, I wanted to work on 1971 Bihari Genocide, or something like Anti-Bihari pogroms in Bangladesh, as they are being trialed too. And you can get the sources for M.B in my sandbox. Fai  zan  15:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Weird, I was reading on the atrocities against Biharis a few hours ago and figured it needed an article. Will begin it tomorrow. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Will try to aid you, but I also expect DYK credit in account of Biharis/Pro-Pakistanis in BN.  Fai  zan  15:30, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't you think that whatever I am working on, you figure it out at once? Maybe simultaneous. Fai  zan  15:35, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hope you continue your work on that article here. Fai  zan  04:58, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your encouragement. - Chandan Guha (talk) 16:27, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Pakistan
I replied,see that.Thank you.Ovsek (talk) 16:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Was it vandalism?I added Partition of India?Following this Pakistan was created. Was it vandalism?I dont do vandalism.I add only information.Ovsek (talk) 17:00, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought it was when I saw how much content had been removed, but no it was not vandalism, just a mistake on your part I assume. It does not matter when Pakistan was created, the entire history of the region is covered in the article. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Ovsek has an old problem in this perspective, even after the discussion at Talk:Military History of Pakistan. Fai  zan  07:40, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much Darkness Shines (talk) 05:48, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Come on now aid me here. Your article is patrolled now. Fai  zan  05:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I just looked through it, so far I see a copyright violation (description of Blod and tears), a link vio printed in 71 so not PD. Also not RS. You have a few primary sources in there and the numbers do not add up, the MAR database says "Bengalis reportedly killed over 1,000 Biharis." You have Rummel down as saying 500,000, but he writes "a counter-genocide of 150,000 non-Bengalis" quite the discrepancy. And of course the majority of those killings are not pogroms nor genocide as they were not state backed. Rummel says as much himself "How much of this was democide (intentional killing by government or its agents) is a question." Will look further as soon as I can. Darkness Shines (talk) 06:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, I will look into Rummel, and the Blood and Tears. Thanks for pointing out. Was not my star eligible to be put to your userpage?  Fai  zan  07:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the constant spinning gives me motion sickness. It is the same when I play FPS games, it is a strange one, I do not get motion sick from planes, boats nor cars, but stuff spinning on my screen makes me feel dizzy and nauseous. I am going to move it to a subpage though. Darkness Shines (talk) 07:41, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Lol. No problem, a navigation bar may be viable for your userpage. Well the most of the references you used at Anti-Muslim pogroms in India are not online, I think mainly from Books? How do you get such refs? Any guide for Biharis? Fai  zan  08:28, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * A what bar? I would imagine most of the references used at AMpiN can be viewed via GBooks, that is normally where I start and then head to the library if I do not have digital copies available. As for the Bihari article, I think Mar4ds idea for an article title is not a bad one. Darkness Shines (talk) 10:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, I have already renamed it. Fai  zan  15:49, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * DS, aid me there in the article, or with the DYK. Come on man. Fai  zan  11:07, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much. Darkness Shines (talk) 05:48, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Re: Change
<div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border: #4169E1 1px solid; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em; font-weight: bold; overflow: auto; vertical-align: middle; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -ms-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); border: 2px solid blue; textstyle = color: #6D7184;">'Namaste'', Darkness Shines. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!''' Message added by Tito Dutta (talk • contributions • email) 05:30, 4 June 2013 (UTC). You can [ remove this notice] at any time.
 * Thank you for the heads up. Darkness Shines (talk) 05:48, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

CfD
Hi DS, I have nominated the Category:Anti-Muslim pogroms in India for deletion, can you please discuss (I see that you have already voted, sorry for the delay). -sarvajna (talk) 08:03, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries on the delay mate, I saw you had added the CFD template, why did you not use twinkle? It does it all for you. Darkness Shines (talk) 08:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not use twinkle and most of the time I edit from from work place, those things do not work on these office browsers. -sarvajna (talk) 08:11, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Murder of Travis Alexander
Hi. Are you sticking with this article? We need you there to help maintain appropriate balance, especially when I or other editors are not there watching over the article. Halo Jerk1 (talk) 20:56, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * How many more chances will user Geebee get? Now he removed an entire section labeling it Irrelevant. User has been warned and told to stop several times. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 06:53, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Very quick observation Mrt canvassing
Doesnt this fall into the category of canvassing other users? he has sent this exact message to at least two or more other editors trying to garner sympathy for his cause which is basically deleting the article! yours sincerely nang. 81.157.114.216 (talk) 19:40, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Anti-Muslim pogroms in India for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Anti-Muslim pogroms in India is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Anti-Muslim pogroms in India until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Warning
That new article of yours, Anti-Muslim pogroms in India, displays forms of blockworthy tendentious editing and source misrepresentation. If I see you editing like that again, I will ask for a topic ban for you via WP:AE. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:05, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No sources were misrepresented, and it is not tendentious editing to create an article on a noteworthy subject. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:46, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
OrangesRyellow (talk) 11:00, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Bad days Ds? Eh? The same here, but no worries. The spring will be on the spot soon. Fai  zan  11:05, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013
Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Anti-Muslim pogroms in India, without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your removal of this template does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Thank you. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:58, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=559088370 your edit] to Godhra train burning may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 ""s and 2 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].

Blocked for 2 weeks
You just got unblocked early and here we are with unreconstructed edit warring. I have blocked you for a period commensurate with your last block. Please play nice when you get back. Something tells me you are running out of chances. Spartaz Humbug! 19:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I did not violate 3RR, and am only at 2RR on any article, see my unblock request above. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:22, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Please can reviewing admin look at this as DS was edit warring simultaneously at two articles at the same time with the same figures. Good thing I didn't see it when I dished out this block or I would have made it a month. EW does not require 3 reverts for a block. You were blatently baiting MrT and editing without discussion. That's not acceptable. Spartaz Humbug! 19:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Spartaz Since when has an editor had to discuss what he is going to add to an article? And BTW, I did discuss the changes I was going to make in advance at the Godra article here Darkness Shines (talk) 19:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Let the reviewing admin make their own mind up. Its 23.42 in my locale and I'm away to my bed. Spartaz Humbug! 19:42, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries, have a good night. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

WP India discussion invitation
<div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border: #4169E1 1px solid; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em; font-weight: bold; overflow: auto; vertical-align: middle; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -ms-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); border: 2px solid blue; textstyle = color: #6D7184;">'Namaste'', Darkness Shines. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!''' Message added by Tito Dutta (talk • contributions • email) 19:29, 9 June 2013 (UTC). You can [ remove this notice] at any time.
 * Tito, I am blocked man. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Ping
User:RegentsPark You got mail. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know
I am on you Darkness Shines (talk) 19:44, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Nang?
Hi Darkness Shines. Sorry to find my favorite ed blocked. Anyway, do you thing this could be Nang?OrangesRyellow (talk) 14:35, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * He has used the Three mobile network before so it is possible Darkness Shines (talk) 15:02, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Unblock III
DS, just as an FYI, you did sort of transgress 3RR with the maintenance tags. Though the tags were different, they were similar in intent. You need to acknowledge that and recognize that edit warring is not merely something technical and commit to trying to avoid that sort of thing in future. --regentspark (comment) 16:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * My commitment to avoid edit warring should be obvious given how long it has been since I was involved in an edit war. I freely admit that adding the tags can be seen as gaming the system, but I had discussed them on the talk page. If you hope to extract a promise from me that I will not add tags to an article again, well obviously I cannot make such a promise given the POV pushing and tag teaming done in the topic area. I had one revert, I discussed everything I did, this block is bollocks and I will not be browbeaten because two editors violated policy in removing said tags and reliably sourced content for no reason other than they do not like the truth. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it's up to you. Horses and water and all that. I don't see the block as 'bollocks', the length of the block is a different question though. (PS. You should read my statement above with a little more care.) --regentspark (comment) 16:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * (ec)Hmm, it is most amusing that the two editors who did in fact break 3RR got short blocks which were lifted early, yet the editor who followed policy gets two weeks which is obviously going to run the full course. So yes, it is bollocks. You know as well as I do that the topic area is full of POV pushers, there are no promises I can make which will be of any use, I have to be able to tag articles for factual and NPOV issues, I have to be able to revert when reliably sourced content is removed due to POV pushers not liking it. So how you expect me to try and avoid adding tags or content to articles in future is simply not feasible. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I suppose I can offer to add no more than one maintenance tag per 24hr period to an article, but that is about the best I can offer. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Bihari atrocities
Hi,

What's your take on this proposed deletion? It would be great if peers and neutral editors could take charge of that article. And also, shouldn't the atrocities against Biharis also be considered as part of the 1971 Bangladesh genocide and hence be covered in the 1971 article?--ArmanJ (talk) 17:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Arman. Unfortunately DS is currently blocked (till the 23rd I think) and it wouldn't be wise for him to comment on anything other than the block. Best to wait for a response after he returns. --regentspark (comment) 19:02, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * User:ArmanJ Sorry but while I am blocked I cannot really comment on an AFD. I will comment on your being reported for edit warring though, the IP you were reverting is an IP sock of user:Nangparbat and as such your reverts are exempted from 3RR. Darkness Shines (talk) 08:49, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

RameshJain9 certainly seems to be a sock of user:Nangparbat. He's disruptive, offensive tone is similar to the recently blocked IP sock. And also suspiciously, there are several single purpose accounts springing up in the AfD.--ArmanJ (talk) 07:42, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, the user is already suspected as a sock of Nangparbat, I've commented about him there. His behavioral styles are also quite similar to that of the IP, meaningless edit warring and making personal attacks. Waiting for DSs' response.-- Zayeem (talk)

Sign
Hi DS, can you please put your signature on the talk page of 2002 Gujarat Violence after the RFC statement? -sarvajna (talk) 02:36, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Tagging socks
I know I have asked you this before, and I'm in the middle of writing an essay for SPI that covers this, but please do NOT tag socks. You make my job harder when you do this. Why doesn't matter, I swear to you, it does make my job harder, and if you are wrong, it is a civility violation. Please don't tag unblocked (or even blocked) editors. Dennis Brown &#124; 2¢ &#124; © &#124; WER  23:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

To do
Darkness Shines (talk) 20:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Potential RFC/U
Hey man, I'm drafting a potential RFC/U on Baboon43 in my sandbox, User:MezzoMezzo/sandbox. I'm hoping that a large scale community effort will help him understand that he should deal with people in a different way. Because this issue is long running and not restricted to a specific article, I felt that your warning to him here and your explanation of site policies to him here were attempts to mediate in these disputes. Would you be willing to certify as a user who tried and failed to resolve the dispute? If you don't agree or aren't comfortable, I'll remove any reference to you in the draft. MezzoMezzo (talk) 02:49, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I only really know of his actions at the one article, but if you think my two comments are enough to help out then, yes. Darkness Shines (talk) 07:30, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The RFC/U has been opened at Requests for comment/Baboon43. I'm just letting you know since you are a certifier and may want to observe how it unfolds. MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Read the talk page
Read the talk page and revert any further changes they may make so I do not have to. I have found an amicable solution, but the warring party will revert it soon. You are now involved and threatening me. Due diligence suggests you should read the talk page and find that the current version is a compromise and is an accurate use of my sources, which have been attributed to broken references by the party in question Yesitwasgenocide (talk) 00:15, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

*Sigh*
Everywhere I turn these days I'm seeing one or the other of you and MrT reporting/complaining about the other. I'm quite fed up with this and this has to come to an end now as its disrupting and distracting for other editors. There are 3 ways this can go: The alternative is for you to negotiate a way of working with each other that doesn't involve squabbling in a way that my 9 year old is too mature to engage in. This is pretty much your last chance to sort this out yourself. Please take it and don't wait for me or the community to resolve this for you as I assure you that you won't like how that ends up. Thank you. Spartaz Humbug! 19:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I can start full protecting every article you squable over until you see sense
 * I can impose an adminstrative sanction to prevent you editing the same article or allowing an admin to expel you from any argument you are fighting over or
 * I can get my block stick out and start escalating blocks until you both get indeffed. And to be fair to you since you are ahead of MrT on the escalating block I'll start you both off on a month.
 * I do appreciate you rewriting this, as my first thought was "Did your nine year old write this for you?" Now of course I realize she corrected it for you Darkness Shines (talk) 19:20, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Since it's almost midnight for me that was a really classy comment. Bravo. Just noting that I am aware that you have signified awareness of discretionary sanctions under India/Pakistan/Afghanistan RFAR and that I have warned MrT similarly. I'm inclined for option 2 if this sniping at each other continues. Cheers. Spartaz Humbug! 19:31, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Go to bed mate. And sorry to have been a pain in your arse, also sorry for the lack of wit and class, have had a few beers. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:34, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

About racism in the depiction of Indigenous peopless
here are a couple of interesting articles you might like to read about how and why old photos of Native Americans often have racist implications, either building on or promoting positive or negative stereotypes. . User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:09, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing compares to a little light reading, I thank you. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:18, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Why reputable sources cannot be trusted
Since I have burden to explain my comments and that is not related to the subject of the discussion:
 * He was awarded the Jawaharlal Nehru Prize in 1967 and Swami Vivekananda Prize in 1989.
 * The above reputable source says Eugene Chelyshev won the Jawaharlal Nehru Award but the official website says Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan won it in 1967.

Hope this explains the context of my doubting. The Legend  of Zorro  08:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The Russian embassy in India is not what I would call on a par with an academic source. And I see no reason to doubt Steven I. Wilkinson Votes and Violence: Electoral Competition and Ethnic Riots in India Cambridge University Press Darkness Shines (talk) 08:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Responding in discussion page. The Legend   of Zorro  08:52, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Other Instances
Responding here as the thing is not directly related with the discussion
 * Syed Abdullah Bukhari was jailed for 18 days after a riot (primarily by Muslim community led by him) broke out against the forced sterilization by the Indira Gandhi government.
 * DSP Zia-ul-Haque murder which also led to riots led by Syed Ahmed Bukhari. The Legend   of Zorro  11:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I am being dense here but what has this to do with either sources or the draft article? Darkness Shines (talk) 12:33, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It has *nothing to do with sources of the article. The above two instances I mention are riots or violence (the way you phrase it) where two top Religious leaders are directly associated. So if I am not terribly wrong it has *something to do with the draft article. Am I wrong? The Legend   of Zorro  13:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you sources for this? Darkness Shines (talk) 13:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Newspaper sources but *zero academic sources. But do not doubt my validity of the above claims since each one of them sources are from The Times of India, Hindustan Times or comparable source. The Legend   of Zorro  13:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Which riots did they start? Darkness Shines (talk) 13:27, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * There are hundred of violence going around everyday everywhere in the world but only where at least a hundred or so people get killed are termed riots. The two instances I mention are comparable to 2007 Kolkata riots but do not have separate wiki article. That said these two events are notable in their own right.  The Legend   of Zorro  13:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * A link to a newspaper article on the riots they started would be real handy. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:43, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Please see this. You used this site as reference. And for the second claim please see this. The Legend   of Zorro  13:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Neither of those sources say they caused riots, just that he has been charged with rioting. It also has nothing to do with the draft article does it? Darkness Shines (talk) 14:06, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The subject of your draft is Anti-Muslim violence in India ‎and my topic is DSP Zia-ul-Haque murder. It was a significant event of murder of a DSP and that dragged Syed Ahmed Bukhari to a political controversy with Samajwadi Party. I am quite unsure how are you claiming that It also has nothing to do with the draft article. The Legend   of Zorro  14:11, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Was Zia-ul-Haque a Muslim? What does Zia-ul-Haque have to do with Bukhari? Sorry, but you need to be clearer. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Why will I waste my time along with you if Zia-ul-Haque was a Hindu knowing very well that the subject of the topic is Anti-Muslim violence in India? The Legend   of Zorro  14:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

(out)Hmm, Right listen, you need sources, which was what I was getting at in my previous response. If you just make cryptic statements then how do you think I will get your point? And you never responded to my question, What does Zia-ul-Haque have to do with Bukhari? as that information would be kinda usefull. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Bukhari family is the most powerful Muslim family of India. They were for 13 generations the Shahi Imams of the Jama Masjid, Delhi for 350 years. Our concern Mr. Syed Ahmed Bukhari is the Imam for now 13 years since 2000. He has *nothing to do with DSP Zia-ul-Haque. But after the *murder of DSP Zia-ul-Haque he *used DSP Zia-ul-Haque to furthur his own *political agendas. Is this long explaination enough? The Legend   of Zorro  14:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Erm, not really. So what if a politician used the murder of a person to further their agenda? Politicians do that all the time. Do me a favour and just write up what you think should be added to the draft, then we can hash it out. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:36, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you move your proposal to the talk page of the draft so others might comment on it please? Darkness Shines (talk) 15:19, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Moved to talk:Anti-Muslim violence in India The Legend   of Zorro  15:28, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
The Legend  of Zorro  23:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No I don't, or at least none that I can see? Darkness Shines (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually it was a request for comment. By the way I want to add some info in the article. But cannot figure out if it belongs to it. Help appreciated. The Legend   of Zorro  23:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Post your suggestions to the article talk page and it can be discussed, same as usual editing. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

2002 Guj vio
I reverted you here and forgot to write the edit summary. Hence this note. By this time everyone should know that any addition or deletion in any of these articles should be discussed on talk pages. So do that! §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 14:40, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Obviously I did not forget anything Remove OR sourced to an Op-Ed Darkness Shines (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Praveen Swami
I have added a COI tag in the article due to Special:Contributions/Praveenswami. Thanks. The Legend  of Zorro  15:28, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Why are you telling me this? And that user has not touched that article in nearly three years. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:33, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

There is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - SudoGhost 20:14, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I only brought it up because I saw that you had not been notified. If you had been notified and I missed it, then my apologies. - SudoGhost 20:15, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Sudo but I had already seen it. I trust common sense to break out any moment now. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:16, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Swami Aseemanand for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Swami Aseemanand is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Swami Aseemanand until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. -sarvajna (talk) 20:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Link: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 12:09, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm A.amitkumar. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Anti-Muslim violence in India, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.  A m i t  ❤  18:55, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you, yours is an opinion I respect. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

A page you started (Anti-Muslim violence in India) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Anti-Muslim violence in India, Darkness Shines!

Wikipedia editor A.amitkumar just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Hi, The un-review was a mistake - changed to reviewed again.It happened while I was trying to read the article (pointed by some one in the ANI discussion)."

To reply, leave a comment on A.amitkumar's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.
 * Thanks for the explanation, I was most confused about that. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:29, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I did not mean to un-review or review this page, but just trying to read the edits mentioned by another user that are mentioned in the ANI comments. Other issues aside some text does look a teeny weeny bit one sided but I surely dont gather the part of why a small word becomes such a PIA for people. By the way - Did you curate your own page and mark it reviewed??  A m i t  ❤  19:34, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I am auto reviewed. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Khunjerab pass
Thank you for the heads up on the above. I am sooo new i have no idea how to write to you or edit the article. I was just intending to add a little 'colour' to the article. I am the citing authority as I was there. I wasnt sure why the para was removed.I thought I made a mistake in saving it so tried again - not to create a 'war'. Wolfwishes (talk) 01:00, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Wolfwishes You need to cite a source when you add content to an article, see WP:V to get an idea on it, this place can be confusing at first, just take your time and perhaps use your sandbox for test editing. Darkness Shines (talk) 01:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

TemplateData is here
Hey Darkness Shines

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. The thread is "Asheq Siddiquee". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot   operator  /  talk 19:30, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Tags removal
I've reverted your removal of the tags as the dispute is still unresolved. -- Zayeem (talk) 08:16, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Kidding Zayeem? The RfC is clear and void about the tags. Fai  zan  08:31, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've replied in your talk page as well. First, Wamiq, Marad and Rose all three are in the same side of the dispute in which you are, so I'm not taking their !votes. Second, the other two participants also overlooked the dispute which was started below. Moreover, the dispute over the rape issue is quite related to POV so the tags must be there until the dispute is resolved.-- Zayeem (talk) 08:39, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Re: Free images
<div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border: #4169E1 1px solid; margin: 2em 0 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em; font-weight: bold; overflow: auto; vertical-align: middle; background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -ms-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -o-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); background-image: linear-gradient(left, #ED7A32, white, white, green); border: 2px solid blue; textstyle = color: #6D7184;">'Namaste'', Darkness Shines. You have got at least one new message at the Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics. Please continue the discussion there!''' Message added by Tito ☸ Dutta 22:58, 1 July 2013 (UTC). You can [ remove this notice] at any time.

Somnath Bharti
Hi. I notice you undid my revision at Somnath Bharti article citing unsourced BLP info wherese i have stated in concern talk page ,the source of info added .Pls look/go through it before reverting content from article.Thanks. TY  of  Walk 20:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a better idea, get the sources before adding content to a BLP. It is a policy we have around here, I am sure of that. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:04, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Source (cited) is affidavit candidature form submitted by somnath bharti himself. See the Somnath Bharti talk page. TY  of  Walk 20:15, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Citations do not go on a talk page, and you cannot use that as a citation per WP:BLPPRIMARY Darkness Shines (talk) 20:17, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The Primary issue here is Date of birth.How is it WP:BLPPRIMARY ? I cited the source at talk page to discuss but it seems no body is interested ? TY  of  Walk 20:28, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you read BLP:PRIMARY? "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses." Darkness Shines (talk) 20:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * then how one, can confirm his date of birth w/o public documents (oops!hv read BLP:PRIMARY soory!)? TY  of  Walk 20:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Please guide me ,How to source DOB w/o public source . TY  of  Walk 21:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I already looked, and found zilch, unless it gets mentioned by a secondary reliable source you cannot add it, sorry. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:06, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow! I never knew that we could not cite such a source on a BLP. Do you know the reason for this? If yes, can you explain to me? I am curious, cz i don't understand why rnt we allowed to cite such documents. Cheers, Anir1uph &#124; talk &#124; contrib 03:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * So as to not make life easy for stalkers and headbangers. Such documents will often have a persons home/work address or phone number on them. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Aaah OK! Thanks :) Anir1uph &#124; talk &#124; contrib 00:49, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Heya
Can you have a look here? Is the RfC's result more important, or the "many votes"? Fai zan  14:08, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Just asked you because you recently gave a brilliant response to a conflict solving it. Fai  zan  14:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Difficult call really, a few in the RFC were in favour of Bangladesh, others PGoB. It seems to me to be a reasonable compromise, what exactly do you find objectionable about the edit? Darkness Shines (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The real objection of the RfC was against "Bangladesh" or "PGB" both. My preference was EP. When the result says "PGoB", is it not sufficient to get only PGoB on the spot. Is it not much compromise already? Now Will I go for another RfC to make sure it was not solely for "BG"? I cannot see more than 1 comment ins support of BG. Some have opted for MB, while most for the PGoB. Then, is it not justified? Even after having an RfC? Fai  zan  14:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well the results of the RFC should be honoured and this change brought to the talk page, I would recommend you start the discussion as soon as you have the chance. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:28, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I have no chance left. Fai  zan  14:34, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * DS, is there any harm to have the belligerent like this → Bangladesh, the link is pointing towards the provisional government article but since the entity identifies themselves as Bangladesh, I have put the term.-- Zayeem (talk) 14:39, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I wrote above that it seemed like a reasonable compromise, but you have to respect the outcome of the RFC. Post to the talk page and see what everyone has to say. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no harm, but when others come out of an RfC, you get no right to go against it. Better continue it at talk. Fai  zan  14:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar for you!

 * Any time buddy, this shield will come in handy methinks. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Franki_Love
Thank you for your help on the Franki Love article! I'm not sure why my citations aren't being accepted. Could you give me a run down of each of the citations that are unacceptable and why so that I can improve the page and add new citations? Thanks! Jheditorials (talk) 20:10, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Have you read WP:RS or WP:BLP? Darkness Shines (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have. I have also added several questions to the Franki_Love talk page. I would appreciate it if you could answer them. Thank you. Jheditorials (talk) 21:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Muhafiz Khan Mosque
Gatoclass (talk) 00:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Writing scintillating articles
After reading (and editting) your article on Muhafiz Khan Mosque I looked at the edit history and your edit process. I noticed, from the last 50% of the edits, that although you had made minor tweaks, it had not occurred to you to make any significant adjustment to either expression or arrangement of sentences.

These two things are vital processes to the really effective editor. You cannot write ‘’really good’’ articles without using them. And the shorter your article, the easier it is.


 * Make sure that the first paragraph really does say the most important things. In this case, don’t describe the building until you have given the time frame and stated why it is notable.
 * Put the whole description together.
 * Put related things into the same sentence.
 * Don’t put unrelated things in the same sentence.
 * These two statements seem so obvious that it ought to be unnecessary to say them, but it isn’t. Here is a classic example:
 * The mosque is named for the governor of the region at that time, and measures 51 feet by 36 feet. The minarets stand 50 feet high.
 * In this instance it is plain that the source of the name has nothing whatever to do with the width of the façade. On the other hand, the width has a direct relationship with the height, and the two facts should be together.


 * Don’t jam an unrelated (or lesser related) fact between two that are closely related.
 * Afzal Khan has said that rioters damaged intricate carvings on the southern elevations of the building; he believed the damage to be irreparable.[7] (The mosque was a protected building under the auspices of the Archaeological Survey of India.) This damage has caused upset among India's Muslim population.
 * You have two statements about the damage, and jammed in between them is a distracting statement about a government body. The government body is mentioned again further down. The beauty of the media in which you are writing (word processor, not pen and ink) is that you can rearrange sentences like that in approximately 3 seconds.


 * Likewise, make sure that things within a sentence are in the correct order.
 * Explain those thing that will not be clear to your casual reader.
 * I am located in Australia. I do not have any clue who Afzal Khan is. You haven’t linked him.  Even if he is linked, if he is not as well known as Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela or Princess Diana, you need to state whether he is a politician, a writer, a historian or what?  Write The historian Afzal Khan stated…. (or whatever).


 * Make sentences, not train carriages linked together with bolts, i.e. if Khan stated two things ..”that rioters caused damage” and “that the damage is irreparable” join the two statements with “and”. Don’t write a separate sentence with a new “he” and a new verb.  Semi-colons used in this way result in clumsy constructions.
 * 1) Don’t write journalese.  No-one is counting the number of lines that you write. This is an encyclopedia and sentences should be properly constructed. One of the enemies of good writing is the journalistic use of nouns as adjectives.
 * In architectural history, there is no such thing as a “three arch façade”. Don’t write The building has a three arch façade when you can write The façade of the building has three arches.


 * The word “features” when used as a verb is almost always inappropriate.  The building doesn’t feature anything! It simply has certain forms or characteristics.  It is sufficient to say that it has a minaret at either end. Don’t say it features a minaret at either end.  If the building has some really unusual element that is not commonly found elsewhere then refer to that, in the noun form, as “a feature of the building”  e.g. A feature of this mosque is the intricate carving on the surface of the minarets.  Don’t write The mosque features intricate carving on the minaret.

Hope this is helpful in other articles.

If you want to know where I’m coming from, I have re-vamped the following: St Paul’s Cathedral, St Peters Basilica, Leonardo da Vinci and Architecture of cathedrals and great churches.

Amandajm (talk) 05:59, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Wow! I too will keep these in mind. :) Anir1uph &#124; talk &#124; contrib 00:15, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Your article in user space
Please include 'userpage' template at the top of this article you have created in user space. Thanks. neo (talk) 17:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Why? I have a fair few drafts in userspace, why choose this one in particular? Out of curiosity, is there a policy on this? Darkness Shines (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Some reader may treat it wiki encyclopedic article if it appears in search results. That's why this template is created to tell reader that it is not wiki main space article. neo (talk) 18:13, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That is for userpages, not drafts. I am trying to get an article fixed here, so please leave me be. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:20, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Pls read carefully. That's for any page in "user space". neo (talk) 18:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Pls read carefully, leave me alone. I have neither the time nor the inclination to waste my time discussing this. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The article you have created is content forking of 2002 Gujarat violence and content forking in user space to avoid NPOV is disallowed as per this policy. I request you to include 'userpage' or 'userspace daft' template at the top of the page. I also request you to choose non-controversial subject for test editing and tag this page for speedy deletion as early as possible. neo (talk) 20:47, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure I told you to go away, why have you not? It is not an article, I am researching and rewriting the current piece of shite that is in mainspace. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Calling the article 2002 Gujarat violence as 'shite' is not good way. That article is written by wikipedia community with consensus over 10 years. Please propose your edits on article's talkpage and tag your daft for speedy deletion. If not, I will propose it at Miscellany for Deletion. Thank you for your understanding. neo (talk) 21:32, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Last time, go away. Do not post here again. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:35, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Rape during the Bangladesh Liberation War
This is a very good article. It only needs a little more work. It would be good to invite someone who specialises in copyediting to have a look at it. This editor would probably be a good person to ask: Inglok (talk)

I will read right through it and make some suggestions, after I have "been around the traps". Amandajm (talk) 01:40, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very very much, I shall ask Inglok to copyedit it after implementation of any suggestions you have to improve it. Now back to hunting for my lost reference Darkness Shines (talk) 01:52, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey
Hi. Amrullah Saleh is not an Afghan. Afghan is synonymous with Pashtun. How can he be Afghan if he is Tajik? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parsdotweb (talk • contribs)
 * Sorry your correct. "Amrullah Saleh, the Tajik head of the Afghan National Directorate of Security." Afghanistan Declassified: A Guide to America's Longest War p29 Feel free to reinstate your edit, but please do not remove the GA tag from the top. Darkness Shines (talk) 05:56, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Sandbox
I've deleted Darkness Shines/sandbox as it was in article space not user space. Easily done - I've seen quite a few others do it. Peridon (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

In Re: Anti-Muslim Violence in India
A new review of the DYK nomination for Anti-Muslim violence in India. The article is much higher quality than many that come through the DYK system, but because of the sensitive nature of the topic, we have requested some additions for balance. While we were trying to get a sense of the scholarly literature, we found some sources which might interest you: Thanks again for your hard work. Good luck. groupuscule (talk) 08:43, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Making India Hindu (essays by different authors).
 * "The Geography of Hindu Right-Wing Violence in India" (in Violent Geographies) – contains some discussion of relationship to anti-Muslim violence globally.
 * "History, emotions and hetero-referential representations in inter-group conflict: the example of Hindu-Muslim relations in India".

DYK for 2006 Vadodara riots
The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

 * No problem mate, and now I have to run to the takeaway, that burger has made me hungry. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:35, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

The issues
RP is right though, the articles focus too much on on exposing and blaming, it should provide much more analysis, because that is what the literature mostly does. The phenomenon should be put into the historical context of partition, and the ongoing political crisis in Kashmir with Hindus fleeing the region, and the Ayodhya dispute which has been ongoing also and played a role in triggering the Gujarat riots. Anti-Muslim violence in India participates both in complex socio-economic patterns and in the global discourse on Islam as a danger. The article could also do more to show the role of the actually existing threat of Muslim terrorism, that also participates in creating the sectarian tensions. It was probably not coincidental either that Gujarat violence happened shortly after 9/11 where the entire non-Muslim world was in "anti-Muslim mode". The more the article can show of that context the better it will be and the smaller its chance of being gutted as Dharma and Yogi suggest. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:17, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not care, I am done with the lot of them. Every improvement I make is a fucking war, reverts, removal of content, pointy fucking tagging. I am not dealing with that shite anymore. I am sick sorry and tired of it and am taking a break. The POV pushers can put all their shite back. I worked fucking hard on these two articles, and certain people will not let one alone or the other be fixed. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That is the nature of the beast called wikipedia. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. You have done excellent work, and now we just need to show the admins what kind of fucking nonsense we are up against with the editors never failing to mangle and misrepresent policy and wikilawyering ad nauseam to keep the best sources out and their nationalist tripe in. If we have just a modicum of selfrestraint, which I admit is often difficult, this will not be a problem because they degenerate into still more nonsensical and anti-policy arguments. Lets just stick to a rational discussion based on policy, and there isn't much they can do. Maybe we should both take a break now. I need to go get groceries anyhow. Cheer up!User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:32, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * One other note: it is a valid point that it looks like sloppy research to attribute a viewpoint to a single source when it can be attributed to a large group, unless that source is particularly notable or prominent. This is the case with the "pre-planned pogrom" argument. We can basically attribute it to Jaffrelot, Ohm, Ogden, Roy, Fernandes Varia in declining order of scholarliness. So basically we don't need to attribute that point we can simply write that it is a prominent viewpoint in the literature and then cite all the sources we have that write it. I also sometimes choose to add a quotation for the exact phrase in the note when I source stuff like that so critical readers don't have to look for the source. It makes for better research and it is easier to support when widely held views are in fact attributed to the many and not just to a single voice.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Adding quotes in the references is a good idea, though I doubt it will stop certain editors. I am going to start on the background section in userspace, and already have a few sources. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:29, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Chatterji
Demonstrate and articulate how any violation (if its not, as I suspect a figment of your imagination) occurred. Or is asking you to explain your edit too much of a chore? Pectoretalk 19:22, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have told you three times now, read WP:BLPPRIMARY. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Like the Eveready Bunny
I detect a hint of frustration in your comments on the Chatterji edits. :~) I have started a few articles on subjects the Hindu nationalists dislike, or where they don't like some of the facts presented, and know the feeling. The editor names change, but the clumsy attempts to discredit the subjects keep on coming, year after year.  One option is to unwatch and forget it. The other is to  patiently revert the edits and argue the case on a dispute resolution page every so often.  Sort of depressing, either way. But getting pissed off about it is like getting pissed off about the weather.  Aymatth2 (talk) 18:24, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I am Irish, we are always pissed off about the weather, my issues with nationalist arseholes however are a different matter entirely. For a little example look at the 2002 Gujarat violence article, I figure I have spent the best part of a week working on that to fix it, take a guess what happened. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:34, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I spent half a year in Galway, living down by the harbor, and didn't mind the weather. I must be mad. The 2002 Gujarat violence article has a lot of good material - and is a natural target. The passions about the subject will die down eventually, but not in our lifetime. You just have to keep plugging away, or hope someone else will take over. For some reason my articles on long-dead French politicians do not attract any vandalism at all. Aymatth2 (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Your DRN request
Please tell TransporterMan to close your DRN request here. neo (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Why left?
Why retired? Man! Come on! I was busy in my huge and difficult Medical exams, but I did not left! Come on, be back now. I hate this awkward "retired" template. Now come on, and stop kidding. Fai zan  16:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I burned out. The 02 article was the final straw, I will probably return, but I need a good long break. I will login occasionally to revert the obvious POV pushes, the rest can remain the dross that it is. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:35, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That is good. But "Wikibreak" template will be more appropriate. Anyway, thanks. Fai  zan  13:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Feedback needed
Please give your feedback on Talk:Sagarika Ghose - what section of criticism is notable and is from reliable sources. Gmcssb (talk) 23:21, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Editors on notice for india pakistan topics?
Whats with the editors on notice?
 * They were all notified of the discretionary sanctions in the topic area after a discussion on ANI. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems like you just reverted something from way back about which there was a discussion too and this revert made. So i am struggling to find the reference of how there is a consensus to getting this back in place? This includes my id and i am going to say this is a move with very bad faith.  A m i t  ❤  23:51, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There does not need to be a consensus to replace the names, MrT revert the addition of them, he then complained to ED, who said the notifications were fine. I had forgotten about the revert until now. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:54, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * What or who do you mean by ED here?  A m i t  ❤  00:02, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ed Johnston bottom of that section, and Salvio giuliano and said the additions were fine. Darkness Shines (talk) 00:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
It's stuck Fai  zan  06:19, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. I'm sorry, this isn't personal, I tried to discuss this with you on your page and at RP's. You don't want me on this talk page, but this notice is statutory. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 05:40, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Syrian Civil War
Thank you for pointing out the citations that I accidentally removed. However, what you did was remove both edits that I had done, not just the one pertaining to the citations. This comes after a lengthy discussion on the talk page, and I've replaced it. Thank you! UncappingCone64 (talk) 19:52, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the reverting of my edit on the article of Narendra Modi
Hi, I am quite new to editing on wiki. So could you explain why my edits were reverted and what type of references do you expect for those changes?
 * You need to read WP:RS and WP:CITINGSOURCES or use which is the easiest way. Darkness Shines (talk) 10:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

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Editing on Narendra Modi
Agreed. But it was mere reverting to a piece of information provided by me, which was deleted by some other person. If a person has deleted that information, can't it be revert back by me? And agreed that the deleting will be discussed in the talk page of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4490:D660:0:0:0:0:B07 (talk) 08:17, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for The Butcher of Amritsar
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:18, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Your revert and addition of unsourced allegations on Anti Christian Violence in India
You have not answered why you reverted my edit, inserting unsourced allegations about rape of nuns and you deleted my post here without answering the questions posed by you adding that warning sign and your revert, with an edit summary:

I do not give a shit, do not remove that image because it upsets you, it serves a very important purpose. difference

These are the two references given, but they do not mention Hindus raping nuns. These are serious allegations, and you can't just add such information to articles at your own will, without documenting them from reliable sources.

Reference 1 - Manas

Reference 2 - HRW

SriSuren (talk) 18:56, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I see we have a WP:NOTHERE issue, " They include the killings of priests, the raping of nuns, and the physical destruction of Christian institutions, schools, churches, colleges, and cemeteries." Second paragraph, of the second source. So do me a favour and take a hike. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My bad. I searched for "rape" in the article. But, you really need to lose that attitude and being so aggressive and also stop ecxcessive use and unwarranted placing of warning signs in user pages. Nicer behaviour always is better than bullying and being aggressive. Isn't that so relevant when talking of an article about violence? I'll get back to the image at a later time. SriSuren (talk) 19:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no time nor patience for apologists of any form of atrocity, your sudden "discovery" that that source did in fact support said content tells me all I need know about you. Never post here again, and never remove that image on the spurious grounds you used, in fact, do not remove it again. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:19, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK withdrawal
I'm not sure why you withdrew the Anti-Muslim violence in India DYK nomination but if it's because you ran out of patience waiting for a review, you need to understand that there is a chronic shortage of regular reviewers at DYK and that it takes time to get around to the more problematic noms. I myself was planning to review your nom either tonight or over the weekend so am a little surprised and disappointed by the sudden withdrawal. Gatoclass (talk) 06:47, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well if you are going to review it then I will withdraw my withdrawal .Darkness Shines (talk) 15:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Godhra Train Burning
You are referring to an old source/book, while there is court ruling that states otherwise. Hence, your information on the Godhra train burning is incorrect. Please remove it, or I will need to refer the page to dispute resolution. Please explain how does my edit amount to disruption. Thanks. Amol863 (talk) 19:23, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Removing academically sourced content is disruption, the court ruling has no bearing on content added to our articles, read NPOV. So whose sock are you then? Darkness Shines (talk) 19:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I read NPOV. In that case, the text should be changed to indicate that the "inconclusiveness" is the opinion of the author of the academic book. But it is not the truth. Please review.Amol863
 * No, it is not opinion, it is fact. There are no shortage of academic sources which say this. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You seem to be violating the NPOV by stating a book's text against that of a court ruling. Hence, it is not factual. Please explain how does it become a fact?Amol863 (talk) 19:48, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Look, I do not bother talking to sockpuppets so go away. Darkness Shines (talk) 19:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I googled sockpuppet and I would like you to know that I am not one. Your response is uncivilised. I will have to refer this page to dispute resolution.Amol863 (talk) 19:56, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Email
Hi, Darkness Shines.--ChaudhryAzan (talk) 01:29, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Why have you vanished? Darkness Shines (talk) 10:32, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 29
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Talkback
Prabash. Akmeemana   13:04, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Echo already let me know Darkness Shines (talk) 13:08, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Editing "Teesta Setalvad"
Sarojar (talk) 19:45, 29 July 2013 (UTC)I am not through with that page. I had separated and merged some headings & I intend to develop each sub topic. In fact that "Times of India Allegation" had become "The Times of India Allegation and the Kausar Bano Controversy". The way the page stands now after your removal of my edit,5.2 is actually a continuation of 5.1 Is there a way of my continuing with my version and doing a complete revamp of the article & you are welcome to see it before it gets "published"? I expect the revision to take few days atleast. In fact The Best Bakery sect is also full of errors with the date 2013 etc. In fact even before Teesta had entered into picture, many papers had reported on Kausar Bano fate but a lot of reports accused Teesta of "spicing" up.

Is there a way of getting the version of the full page as it existed before you reverted onto my Sandbox? I have done some more editing but have not saved it yet! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarojar (talk • contribs) 20:27, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, make your changes and I will review them afterwards, I am worried that at the moment that BLP is just one big hit piece so am hoping you do improve it. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:31, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I have added a para to allegations of misappropriations of funds. Will you please comment on that and also on 2002 Mumbai bus Bombing which I entirely rewrote. Thank you! Sarojar (talk) 06:59, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks ok but the fact that the SIT has been accused of suppressing evidence really needs to be mentioned as well. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:35, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I am reverting to the earlier version abt Gulberg museum issue with ref being given from CJP website.It is in my sandbox Can you see it? For some reason Kractivist blog from where I had given earlier ref (and not from my own blog) has got suspended. For the past two days CJP website was "exceeded band width" so not accessible.About your earlier comment about allegations against SIT, it is a wiki article on Teesta. How can you have a subsection saying "false allegation against Modi" based on arguments in the court? His lawyers are not going to give good conduct certificate to Teesta.Why did you remove the counter arguments in the court in the earlier version? Another more important query -- I want to have some sort of timeline eg Apr 14 2009 - Wild accusations against Teesta april 27 2009 -SC orders SIT to undertake investigation of charges in Zakia Jafri- CJP special leave petition: Or Zahira press conf in July 2003 & NHRC intervention thereafter in April 2003;Tehelka sting & Teesta's petition to NHRC after which NHRC took over and authenticated the tapes ;Similarly charges in Gulberg memorial etc weeks before filing of protest petition. The article as it stands is trash No mention of Concerned Citizen's tribunal formation or the report, Mass graves at Lunawada for which Teesta was sought to be arrested till SC threw out the charges etc I want to write a comprehensive easily accessible article so facts are known.It will take a few days, a week or so. And the Sadarpura massacre case where Teesta was explicitly cleared of charges of tutoring. Another Q- If I do not use the sandbox for more than 12 hrs, will the contents disappear? Can I put it in my user page? wiki is not recognizing the user page that you created for Sarojar as mine.So if I create a fresh user page will the one that I have in my sandbox go? Thank you again. I am not very net savvy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarojar (talk • contribs) 14:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Everything you have written in your sandbox will remain there so long as you press the save button. I reverted you as one of the sources was a blog, you cannot use blogs on wiki as sources, see WP:RS & WP:SPS. I will take a look at your sandbox later on as time allows. I know wiki takes a little getting used to, but you are doing OK, take it nice and slow and read the policies that other editors point you at. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Godhra Train burning
Don't want to get into this topic now as I want to concentrate on Teesta Setalvad page for the time being. Some facts not mentioned-- the karsevaks did not have reservations & had forcibly occupied others' seats. I wanted to bring into notice info available from Rajya Sabha website which is different from what is given in newspapers. Infact I managed to download the appendix mentioned as answer to question # 3289 session #199 but dont know how I did that. So I had the names of all 52 identified victims and compared it with names on reservation chart & found that 17 of the dead were people with reservations/very young children with them and there were 3 other victims declared "missing". So atleast 20 victims were non karsevaks and including the 7 unidentified, atleast about half the victims were non karsevaks. My blog on this

Some comment - CCT report does not say that the train burning was "accidental". It merely dismisses conspiracy theory. There are eye witness accounts of credible witnesses (non karsevaks)that some burning/smoking missile from outside did land in and probably started the fire

However see 2nd para of this report Sarojar (talk) 09:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

How come there is no mention of vandalism by karsevaks and rumour of abduction of Sophiya and others? An attempt was made to drag her but successfully prevented. She. her mother and sister hid in the ticket booking office. Missing them in the platform, a rumour spread that they have been abducted by karsevaks in S-6. See the documentary Godhra Tak Also see Report on the visit of NHRC Team headed by Chairperson, NHRC to Ahmedabad, Vadodra and Godhra from 19-22 March 2002.

>>>Two victims of Godhra incident met the team at Raj Bhawan Annexe on 20 March. 11 year old Gayatri, d/o Harshad Bhai, is the sole survivor of her family. She said that her mother, father and two sisters died in the fire in compartment S/6 of Sabarmati Express. She could manage to jump out to the safe side from the burning coach. She said that the train was attacked by a crowd, which was 1500-2000 strong. She added that the crowd was shouting ‘Get the girls out’. Smt. Urmila Trivedi who accompanied Gayatri said that she was travelling in coach S/5 and was injured in stone pelting.

The Tehelka sting and

>>What exactly transpired between ASM Meena and the mob?

Meena is silent on the issue in his statement to the police. TEHELKA’s undercover reporter decided to meet him posing as a research scholar. Meena — not aware that he was talking to a journalist or being recorded — said that when he came down and asked the mob why they were chasing the train, a few people from the mob replied that one of their people had been abducted by the karsevaks on the train. Meena also said that he heard a few in the mob suggesting that the coach be set on fire to drive people out of the coach so they could recover their person. But he saw no swords, any other sharp weapon or inflammable material being carried by the mob. On the contrary, according to him, the mob mainly consisted of women and children carrying sticks and pelting stones. Sarojar (talk) 14:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Retired?

 * "This user is no longer very active on Wikipedia."

You seem pretty active for someone in retirement! 69.125.134.86 (talk) 22:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You seem pretty curious for someone I do not know. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:30, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Anti-Muslim violence
I was hoping to get the review completed last weekend but found some issues with the article (which I posted about) that I felt required further investigation. I then decided to take a look at a couple of other articles I've been reviewing to see if I could wind those nominations up quicker. Currently I am halfway through fixing one of those noms and will probably stick with it for now as the issues are fresh in my mind. I will comment again on your article over the weekend. Gatoclass (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Consensus
My recent contribution deleted by you, we have extensive discussion on talk page, there are all reasons to include the content of my contribution. How can we reach to consensus?--Ali aff (talk) 16:50, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Try an RFC Darkness Shines (talk) 16:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)