User talk:Dave or David

List of Criterion Collection releases
If you want to object to the deletion of an article, the proper place to do so is here. DonIago (talk) 23:43, 24 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Now that I'm there, I can't find anything on the page in question [cntrl/f criterion with no results]. Dave or David (talk) 23:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You can't find anything because you'd need to create a new discussion from that page to contest the deletion. Before doing so, I would strongly recommend that you review the original deletion discussion, which can be found here: Articles for deletion/List of Criterion Collection releases (2nd nomination).
 * I strongly doubt you'll succeed in getting the list recreated based on the rationales provided, but you're welcome to try. FWIW, I liked the list too and am sorry it's gone, but I couldn't come up with any good counterarguments to those put forth by those advocating for the article's deletion. I've read some of the "arguments" raised by those opposed to the list's deletion elsewhere, and many of those seemed to come from people who didn't have a good understanding of how Wikipedia works. DonIago (talk) 00:12, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It's really upsetting to me at this point because I have been relying on that list for years. I have used it for personal and educational purposes. As far as my 15 year comprehension of what Wikipedia is about, along with the many similar pages to it that are up and available, I cannot comprehend why anyone would think this one is worth deleting. When you say the counter-arguments stated lack an awareness of "how Wikipedia works," that's really troubling to me. I don't have a wealth of time to research how Wikipedia officially works in order to make a good, immediate case for it, but to me it should be simple: people use the page for information and data purposes. If I wanted to go check on the history of Coca Cola products, I would go to Wikipedia and likely find what I want to know. It is not academic, it is not relevant to everyone, but Wikipedia has always been a place to go for shorthand lists that are concise, where a Coca Cola website is a lot more to navigate through. The Criterion list page is factual information. Maybe you can help me make some shortcuts, and we can team up a bit to explain to whoever is behind deleting it that they are doing a huge disservice to users. I've been reading a lot of comments on Reddit of people who agree with me. If there is a large group of people that use a page, then it seems like whoever is deleting the page might be a little power hungry. Obviously whoever wants it deleted is not depending on it like myself and many others, so it only makes sense to me that they would not understand how valuable that page is. I will be polite in all of my interactions on here, but it reminds me of the book banning that is going on, and any time ideological arguments hold people back from common sense. Thank you. Dave or David (talk) 00:53, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think I can get involved in this unless you can make it more clear to me that you reviewed the AfD and provide some sample counterarguments to the arguments that were raised there in favor of deleting the list, sorry. DonIago (talk) 01:03, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * sigh* ok. So I have two questions for you. As I mentioned, I am new here, joining the Wikipedia family specifically for this particular page. That's how important it is to me, but I will also fight for any page that people get use out of. Being brand new, I don't know all of the rules and procedures and where to find everything like the AfD you mentioned. I am graduating with my MA next semester with a 4.0, so I know I can learn those procedures, but naturally I want to expedite the process. What is the quickest way to learn? Is there a youtube video somewhere that breaks down how Wikipedia works?
 * My second question is: lets say someone deleted your favorite page. Would you fight for it, or would you accept that someone somewhere came up with some reason to take it down? I want to get a sense for the futility of this stuff. It really is strange to me that something so useful could be taken down. Why would someone even be looking to delete pages, unless they were pages that had zero traffic? Anyways, thanks for your help. 2600:1700:8131:7D00:84B9:3855:3B24:2474 (talk) 01:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I linked you (presumably you, since you appear to have edited while logged out here) to the AfD in my second message here, so I'm not sure why you're saying you can't find it?
 * I think, as a new editor, I'd recommend that you start with Help:Introduction. I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of ins and outs to Wikipedia, and depending on what kinds of editing you're doing you're more likely to run afoul of some of the technicalities, but I think people are pretty forgiving of new editors overall as long as the conversation stays civil. Depending on the types of articles you're editing, there's often Manuals of Style to help you out as well, such as MOS:FILM, though perhaps the best advice is to keep your edits fairly minor in nature as you find your footing. If you're looking to create an article, that's a process, and you'd probably want to start with WP:YFA.
 * Regarding your second question: As with the article that initiated this conversation, for me a lot of it would depend on why the article was deleted, which would in turn lead me to wanting to review the AfD. Wikipedia isn't intended to publish the sum of all human knowledge; it's intended to be an encyclopedia, and WP:ITSUSEFUL is an argument that's raised often enough that, as evidenced, there's an actual link to discussion as to why that's a bad argument for preserving content. So, on a personal level I'd probably be annoyed, just as I'm saddened (though not surprised, and ultimately agree with the reasoning) that the List of CC releases article got deleted...but as a matter of meeting the goals of this project, that list was out of scope.
 * I can't stress enough how much I think you should review the AfD and familiarize yourself with the reasoning that led to that list being deleted, because your major argument for preserving it seems to revolve around it being useful...and for the scope of Wikipedia, simply being useful isn't sufficient grounds for retaining content.
 * I hope this is helpful for you! DonIago (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2023 (UTC)