User talk:David Underdown/Archive 7

James Deal
I am trying to complete a series of short articles the Master Gunner, St James's Park. I am researching James Deal. He is not in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. All I can find on him is the following: London Gazette. Do you know of any other material on him? Dormskirk (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. Many thanks. This is very helpful. Dormskirk (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLVI (December 2009)
The December 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

John Trask
Before I start my request, thanks for your work on Vernon Hill (cricketer), I'd had what I thought was a decent dig around, but as usual, you came up trumps! I've done a little on John Trask, and he seems to have served the army pretty well until his death. I know this is a bit before the usual period you do on cricketers, but is there any chance you could dig up some more on him? Kind regards, Harrias (talk) 17:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

G. S. Carter
Hi David - thanks so much for the DSO info from the NA that you added to Toby Carter's page. I hadn't realised his 'peculiar empire' was quite so large, at 6,000 square miles. I'm working on another Z Special Unit major here but am uncertain where to find London Gazette info about his DSO and Presidential Freedom Medal (I've tried googling both). Any ideas? Thanks again for your help Cheers Rebecca Jasper33 (talk) 07:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow! Again, thank-you so much - you've really gone to town with him and filled out the story wonderfully. Thanks too for all the hints about searching for military records and how the Gazette works: they're hugely helpful for my future pottering about in the archives.  I am slightly bothered whether Chester qualifies to have his own article under the Wikipedia notability criteria (other people I have 'done' are notable for things in addition to their war service, such as Roland Griffiths-Marsh's double award-winning memoirs and G. S. Carter's founding of the Kundasang War Memorial and Gardens).  Do you think Chester's Lieut-Colonelosity and OBE/DSOness and leading of various Z Special Unit Operations allow  him to make the grade?  Cheers,  Rebecca Jasper33 (talk) 12:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I've launched F. G. L. Chester into mainspace - I found a few more references to him which I think establish his notability. Cheers Rebecca Jasper33 (talk) 19:55, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Stewart Macpherson
Many thanks for the re-naming. In fact, Stewart is just a middle name; I have accordingly put it in brackets at the beginning of the article. Is that appropriate? 45ossington (talk) 11:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Well thank you again - this time, for getting Sir Thomas up to scratch from a standing start in no time at all. Taking his father, uncle and brothers into account, they are clearly a remarkable tribe. 45ossington (talk) 17:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The "of Biallid" isn't to denote a peerage, but a Scots (feudal) Barony. It's certainly how he styles himself... Also, would it be better to have MC** or MC‡ (maintaining the link to medal bars, of course), which is a more usual way of denoting bars than spelling it out in full. This would probably have been better on the item's talkpage, I know, but I wasn't sure it was worth creating one just for this! 193.108.78.10 (talk) 17:19, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * There is a talkpage for the current lcoation of the article. The fact it's a Scots Barony tends to reinforce why it shouldn't be used within the article title - as I said the general naming convention is that only peers use that sort of naming qualification, it might be relevant to mention the barony in the article at some point though, properly sourced.  For whatever reason, it's more usual in Wikiepdia to spell out Bar, the asterisk or dagger notation isn't that well known.  David Underdown (talk) 17:31, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Gilbert Thomas Carter: the sequel!
I have incorporated the information from both the Times obit and the service records. When you have a chance, could you look at it and see what you think?

It would be nice to be able to get this to GA status, what do you think? How much work do you think it would need before it could be put up as a candidate?

I hope you had a good holiday season. Regards, -- Phantom Steve /talk &#124;contribs \ 10:23, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've made one slight tweak, but otherwise looks pretty good. David Underdown (talk) 10:34, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Good call on that tweak! And thanks, although obviously a lot of it is also down to your work! -- Phantom Steve /talk &#124;contribs \ 11:36, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Australian flying aces
Hi David. I have come here with a thanks and a bit of a request. ;-) I would just like to say thanks for your helpful additions to, and assistance with, Richard Minifie. I have a bit of a request regarding other Australian ace, Cedric Howell, though. While expanding the article I found a few fleeting statements advocating he had been Mentioned in Despatches for his service in the First World War, but I could not find anything substantive on this, even searching through the London Gazette. The sources stating he had been MiD were obiturary-like and may be a little iffy, but I am more inclinded to believe he may have been MiD given the he was awarded the DSO. Also, one of the orbituray-like sources states he was awarded an Italian decoration, which is plausable give he primarily served his flying career over the Italian Front, but this is the only source that mentions it so I doubt he was. Anyway, what I am getting at is I was wondering if you would be able to have a search through the UK's National Archives, or maybe the London Gazette, and see if anything can be dug up? If you are too busy or do not wish to, than that is fine. :) Thanks, mate. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 01:56, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, mate. I knew about the pre-1943 issue with the DSO, so that's why I'm more inclined to believe he was MiD. :) I've incorporated all I could from his Australian/AIF service record, but it does not mention much after he transferred to the RFC. I think Howell's RAF service record should cover all of his honours, as he did not join an operational squardon until late 1917 and the majority of his aerial victories were scored after the formation of the RAF. Also, his DSO, MC and DFC were all awarded when he was in the RAF. I'll have a look through the blog for additional source links, though. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much, David! That's an excellent find! As you say, it would be hard to, basically, connect the DSO and MiD in the prose, so I will instead present it something along the lines of: "For his "distinguished and gallant services" in Italy, Howell was mentioned in the despatch of General Frederick Lambart, 10th Earl of Cavan on 26 October 1918".
 * If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I would love to have a copy of Howell's service record. Thanks very much, mate. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 15:07, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi David. Sorry to be such a pain, but I have another request. I am currently working on a biography of ace Geoffrey Forrest Hughes in my sandbox here. He enslited in the Royal Flying Corps and served two tours over the Western Front during the First World War, the first being with No. 10 Squadron in 1916 and the latter with No. 62 Squadron in 1918 with which he achieved his eleven victories. However, the details are a little light in regards to his actions and service, and I am having a little trouble with the London Gazette trying to locate applicable entries on the man due to his relatively common name! His Australian Dictionary of Biography entry claims he was twice Mentioned in Despatches, but, as aforementioned, I am unable to confirm this through the Gazette. Also, he was awarded the Air Force Cross in 1919, which I presume was for his actions as a flight instructor, but I do not have this confirmed and the Gazette announcement only has a general announcement on the award. In essence, I was wondering if you would be able to have a little bit of a dig around and see if you can find any information in the UK National Archives? As ever, If you are too busy, are unable to do so or would rather not, than please to do feel obligated and just say so. :) Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 12:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, mate. Forget the AFC recommendation, and the same for the rest if it is too much trouble. What a pain in the butt! What genius decided to lump all the documents together! Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 05:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Johannes S. Andersen‎
Hi David. I saw that you added some info from British sources to the article Johannes S. Andersen‎. Do you have any more info other than that which you added? I'm presently working on improving said article. Manxruler (talk) 07:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, I guess it would be closed still. Probably would be OR to use it anyway, as you say. I personally don't see the additions you've made as OR, seeing as they are available on-line and all. Thank you and continued happy editing. Manxruler (talk) 11:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Mandell Creighton
Hi David, Do you remember giving me some feedback on Mandell Creighton a few months ago. Well, the article has pretty much been just sitting since I finished it not long after your input. user:Fifelfoo was going to do a peer review (see the article's talk page), but, perhaps, he has been busy with other commitments.

I was wondering if you'd like to do a peer review of the article. Your expertise on the Anglican church will be especially helpful. I am traveling until Feb 5, but I'll try to get back to any questions you might have ASAP. Looking forward to your reply. Regards, Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  21:38, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks David!  Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:10, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Fred Birks
Good stuff! (Well done.) Do you want to (i.e. code for: "will you please") put a short polite note on User talk:Stevejwilson explaining to the poor guy what's going on? (Thanks in advance.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Done, slightly surprised given your editing in milhist articles taht you hadn't come across cwgc for Commonwealth War Graves Commission before. Don't knowhow I'd missed the Birks article up to now actually, as I normally always check the CWGC data for any Commonwealth war casualty. David Underdown (talk) 16:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Done" - Thanks.
 * "slightly surprised ... " - You're quite correct; I have indeed come across the Commonwealth War Graves Commission before. I guess at 0130 my powers of recall and association have already gone to bed, even if I haven't ...
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 23:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

High Wood
Dear Dave, the Official History has the 20th Deccan Horse and the 7th Drgn Gds in the operation (half way down page 66).Keith-264 (talk) 23:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

David Campbell (British Army officer)
The article you have drafted at User:David Underdown/David Campbell (British Army officer) looks pretty comprehensive to me: I should retain the infobox including photo that I have assembled but otherwise just use your text in its entirity Dormskirk (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

obscure request ...
On John Cooper, we have "John Cooper (actor) (1793–1870), English actor", who was also owner/manager/whatever of the Theatre Royal, Bath (according to: Not being British, I don't have access. Could you please look it up and see what it says about Cooper?
 * Boase, G. C. rev. Metcalfe, E. (2004) "James, Edwin John (1812–1882)", Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, accessed 27 Dec 2007 )

Thanks in advance, Pdfpdf (talk) 23:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


 * There's just a brief mention in the ODNB article you mention, however, he has his own article too, http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/6220, so he's almost certianly notable. David Underdown (talk) 09:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, that's encouraging. Thanks for looking.
 * However, being a "colonial", I don't have access to that article, either ... Pdfpdf (talk) 09:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * If you drop me an email, I should be able to send you a link tothe article which will giev yo free access for five days. David Underdown (talk) 09:59, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

That would be great! Thanks!! Pdfpdf (talk) 10:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

(Email sent.)
 * "This message should have a link ... " - Message received, thank you, and it does contain a live and useful link. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

John Wilton (British diplomat)
BTW: An IP added a bio to a stub I created, and I haven't been able to source the bio. I would guess that it, too, has come from ODNB. If so, could I bother you to add the reference to John Wilton (British diplomat)? (If it isn't from ODNB, don't bother.) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Sir (Arthur) John Wilton (born 1921 (1921) (aged 89))" - You Poms seem to live to ripe old ages!
 * (My wife's grandad lived to 95, and her dad's still alive, whereas both my parents died in their 60s.)
 * Thanks again. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 10:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Talkback
By the way, what does 9th QRL mean? I'm curious Minima c 94 (talk ) 20:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Initials and periods
A lifetime working in London's publishing houses and I've never heard that one before ("British English tends not to use full stops after initials etc" – it seems particularly odd that you should maintain this, having started an article entitled F. G. L. Chester!). In the book world we place a period after letters if the abbreviation fails to end with the final letter of that which is being abbreviated. Hence we put a period after Rev. but not after Revd ... Unless the Hon. E. E. Villiers was actually an Hon (not an Honourable), and unless her two names were E and E (rather than Elizabeth, Emily or what-have-you), we would always style her the Hon. E. E. Villiers. If going with your style I would suggest it might be better to close up the Es so she is EE Villiers (I've done this in the piece). Even then, she should certainly be the Hon. (with, if you'll excuse the expression, a period). I consulted Abbreviation and it seems to be fairly accurate, except that it uses newspapers in its examples (FT etc.). When I have time I'll expand it to cover other forms of publishing. I have the feeling that an encyclopedia should be using books rather that newspapers as its stylistic inspiration, would you not agree? Kind regards, Ericoides (talk) 13:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm probably most influenced by The Guardian's style guide, which as the article you link to points out doesn't use full stops for any form of title-and my impression is that this is the way British usage is generally moving. I take your point about closing up initials - thinking about it that it is more common, even the London Gazette uses that style most of the time now.  Your usage of "period" rather than "full stop" made me assume you were influenced by American English.  This seems to be an area that Wikipedia's own manual of style does not fully address, the closest is Manual of Style.  I'm not sure about preferring book style over newspaper.  Newspaper (and the BBC's) style guides are increasingly adapated for readibilty on screen, rather than in print - the vast majority of people of course read Wikiepdia on screen, so in some ways the newspaper models may be more appropriate - the reading experience can be very different. David Underdown (talk) 14:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, the onscreen experience was not something I had considered, so thanks for pointing that out. You might be right. There is, however, something about T. S. Eliot or E. P. Thompson that seems much (for want of a better word) 'classier' than TS Eliot or EP Thompson, perhaps just the old buffer in me seeing the inexorable creep of txtspk into areas where it has no business being. I can't say I care for the Guardian's style too much (don't mention their spelling), and they do seem to try to be wilfully different for the sake of it (double-quotes, no italics for book titles etc.). 'Periods' I use as it's marginally shorter than full stop, but to be precise I should have written 'full-point'. Ericoides (talk) 14:13, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the screen, and the lack of control over how text is rendered (different people will have different size screens, with different font size as standard), does make quite a big difference. I first looked at your latest reply as a diff-T. S. Eliot was split over two lines, with the T. appearing right at the end of the line, which does fragment the reading experience slightly, momentarily making it appear as if there's a sentence fragment. This can be confusing, particularly for those who do not have English as their first language.  Using the TS Eliot form removes this ambiguity.  It's far easier to avoid that sort of breaking in traditional typesetting - you can try to do it here with &nbksp; which is the html entity for a non-breaking space, but that makes the editing experience considerably more awkward.  David Underdown (talk) 14:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This is all very interesting, bringing up lots of things I'd never considered (eg the screen issue), so thanks for that. I've often wondered why people used that &nb thingy rather than a straightforward en-rule (as here –). Re your point concerning 'this is the way British usage is generally moving', I genuinely think that it moves because people in positions of publishing power – eg editors – let it do so, and so it behoves us – as editors – to make sure it goes where we want it to go. We are not entirely passive (this is very much the case in book publishing, where if I want something to be styled in such-and-such a way I can ensure it is, thereby creating or perpetuating a style that others might cite as a norm). OK, back to work, nice to chat. Ericoides (talk) 14:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Peter Stevens (RAF officer)
Thanks for the great job expanding and fixing my incorrect choice of title when I first moved this one. You may be aware that I have nominated it for DYK. I thought the first version was an excellent start by a new editor, User:Carrera57. – ukexpat (talk) 17:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I came across it via DYK. Your choice wasn't wrong just not the best in this case.  He's not primarily notable as a pilot, but for his escape attempts, and being a German in the RAF.  Simply saying pilot might also lead people to think first of civil aviation, not military.  David Underdown (talk) 18:20, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Dyks
Your efforts in developing the articles I have lobbed in your direction via DYK are much appreciated. Seeing your interest in WWI horses, is there mileage in an article on Sir Frederick Benson? Regards Motmit (talk) 20:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLVII (January 2010)
The January 2010 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Titles in leads
Since this form was recently removed from some articles can we have some consensus over whether this style is appropriate or not before a mass reworking of styles is undertaken? (as I now see User:Cyan22 has been doing to Admirals of the Fleet). If you agree that this may be problematic under MOSBIO but 'that in practice this form is used on most military articles' (there are very many that don't) perhaps the articles that use it are the articles that need changing? I'd say this needs bringing up for discussion at MILHIST before this style is adopted. Benea (talk) 11:28, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It's certainly present in quite a few featured articles, and so far as I know, no objection has ever been raised. See for example Brian Horrocks.  David Underdown (talk) 11:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Battle of Waterloo
David, what do you mean by "invested"? It seems to me that "infested" is far more appropriate in this context (or is it POV?) ;-) Mvdleeuw (talk) 13:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering the wording it perhaps ought strictly be "invested by" rather than "invested with", but in this context "invested" is more or less synonomous with "laying siege". It very specific military usage.  From teh Oxford English Dictionary:

"To enclose or hem in with a hostile force, so as to cut off approach or escape; to lay siege to; to besiege, beleaguer; to attack."

David Underdown (talk) 13:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I noticed this. I concur "invested" is common usage, and in this case "invested by".  Ty  14:12, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I seem to be a bit biased on the French ;-) Mvdleeuw (talk) 19:28, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

42 Articles
You are right. I just returned to the WP to revert my entries. You were faster. --DL5MDA (talk) 22:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom GA review
A review to see if Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom meets Good article criteria has started, and has been put on hold. Suggestions for improvement are at Talk:Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom/GA2, and are mainly to do with coverage and neutrality, and building the lead section. Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is one of our most high profile and popular articles, attracting an average of over 11,000 readers every day. You have made more than 50 edits to the article, and so you might be interested in helping to make the improvements needed to get it listed as a Good Article.  SilkTork  *YES! 12:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Matthew Maer

 * and another! HJ Mitchell | fancy a chat?   11:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You also have another reply on my talk page, just to complicate things! HJ Mitchell | fancy a chat?   22:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Coote Hedley
Hey, haven't seen your head poking around my articles for a while; I must be writing the wrong ones!! Got an article which might interest you, I haven't done too much with it at the moment, I'm quite busy, but I thought it might interest you. Coote Hedley. From what I can tell, he was the head of MI4 for a time, and his KBE, CB and CMG, not to mention rank of Colonel and later knighthood tell me either his Dad was very important, or he had a decent military career! Hopefully I'll get some time to add more cricket detail, and what military stuff I can find, but if you could have a dig around, that'd be brilliant. Regards, Harrias (talk) 21:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Nominations for the March 2010 Military history Project Coordinator elections now open!
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process has started; to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on 8 March 2010! More information on coordinatorship may be found on the coordinator academy course and in the responsibilities section on the coordinator page. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Marcinkus
Thanks for additional info about Marcinkus. Do you think the article is close to the Good Article? M.K. (talk) 12:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably not far off - though I've only ever put one article up for GA myself (successfully), so I'm maybe not the best person to ask. David Underdown (talk) 14:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLVIII (February 2010)
The February 2010 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Tony Hart Gazetted
I appreciate the fact that both pages are referenced in the citation - the only problem is, if the reader clicks on the London Gazette link in the article it will only download the first page in which Tony Hart is not at all mentioned - this is somewhat conterintuitive. I did consider removing the link to the first page altogether... but that would have broken it in a different way. 91.106.170.10 (talk) 08:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The way the gazette does individual pages is a bit of a pain, but it's used as a ref all over theplace, and no wehre else is this done. David Underdown (talk) 09:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Tim Cross
Hi, you were a lot of help on Cross, especially finding those Gazette refs (and later showing me how to find them!). He's just passed GA, so you're most definitely owed this:

I've also nominated him for MILHIST A class. Review page is here if you're interested. Best, <font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">HJ Mitchell | <font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts?   11:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Nigel Poett
Hey David. I'm working on Nigel Poett, another one of my little airborne projects on the side. Although I'm more fortunate this time in having Poett's autobiography to flesh out his biography, it's so tedious that every few pages I actively think of beating myself to death with it. I have one obituary from the Telegraph that ParaData have online, but would you be able to see if the Times ever ran an obituary for him? It would have been in 1991, although I'm unsure of the actual date, as none of the sources actually state it. Many thanks for whatever you can do, Skinny87 (talk) 10:32, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks David, that's a real help. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you in turn. Skinny87 (talk) 16:55, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

London Gazette question
Hi, I am told you are the person to approach relating to issues with finding citations in the London Gazette and I was wondering if you might be able to help me. I am trying to track down the announcement of the knighthoods awarded to Henry Trollope and William George Fairfax. Both were naval officers who were knighted at some point in the aftermath of the Battle of Camperdown (at some stage between 16 October - 19 December 1797). My sources describe them as being made Knights Banneret, but that honour had not been bestowed for more than a century before this date and it is much more likely that they were made Knights Bachelor and I was hoping to find citations to prove it, but I can't. Are you able to help? If not then don't worry too much about it, but it would be a nice addition to what is proving an extremely complicated article. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 00:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll try to have a look later, that era's a bit before when I've normally searched, so I don't know if my normal tricks will work. Naively, I'd have expected Knight Companion of the Bath to be the most likely award.  If they were still alive in 1815 when the Order of the Bath was revamped they would then have become GCBs, the Gazette for that is linked from the Order of the Bath article, so you could try looking at that first.  David Underdown (talk) 10:55, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:TPS in action. Can't find any mention of Fairfax actually being knighted (despite the repeated references to him being a Knight Banneret), but apparently Trollope was made Knight Banneret by George III on Royal Charlotte, flying the Royal Standard, in October, 1897.  In June, 1773 the King apparently made Admirals Pye and Spry, and Captains Knight, Bickerton and Vernon Knights Bannaret while aboard Barfleur.  The legality of these appointments is somewhat doubtful.  Supposedly so is the last appointment, that of Sir John Smith at Edgehill, since certain formalities had to be followed. --Simon Harley (Talk | Library). 11:30, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats all very interesting, although the gazette notices I'm looking for would have been in the immediate aftermath of the battle - a few months at most and certainly not as late as when the knightly orders were reformed in 1815 (Fairfax was dead by then, although Trollope did become a GCB) and they can't have received KBs either as those awards are all well-documented (as numbers were strictly limited). I note that the knighthoods were officially recognised even if they were not formally gazetted, as they are used in the Gazette account of the thanksgiving service for the battle (19 December 1797 [). George III was quite fond of on-the-spot knighthoods - [[Thomas Byard]] got one for steering his barge during a fleet review that I also cannot find a Gazette notice for. In any case, it is an interesting mystery that I will have to incorporate into a footnote somehow. Thanks to both for your comments and if any one turns some further evidence up then please do let me know. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 23:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

RVW pronunciation of Ralph
Your recent revision has slightly improved what I still regard as an unnecessarily prominent point. If it needs saying at all, surely it belongs in a small footnote somewhere, not in the first few words of the article - especially as the phonetic alphabet is familiar to only a few potential readers. This has irritated me for some time, but I hesitated to edit the article and have merely added a note on the relevant discussion page. You might wish to be a bit more drastic? Best wishes. John Hamilton (talk) 13:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe IPA is the standard way of rendering pronunciation on Wikipedia, regardless of how well known it is, see WP:MOSIPA. "Rafe" certainly isn't what many people would expect when they see Ralph, so I think it does need to be fairly prominent.  The reference for the pronunciation does it at least quote Ursula VW's rendering as Rayf.  The MOS article linked above gives some support for also giving a respelling as Rayf or Rafe perhaps.  David Underdown (talk) 16:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Wilfred Custance
Hi David, hope all is well. I know you have been interested in Royal Navy biographies and I have just created Wilfred Custance, with the information available to me in the digital records in Oz. I will try London Gazette asap. FYI, I have also updated Australia Station with Commanding Officers and also created the list of ships assigned to the Australia Station. Regards Newm30 (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Goat

 * Now passed as a Good Article. Thanks again.  Chzz  ►  10:07, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Coordinator elections have opened!
Voting for the Military history WikiProject coordinator elections has opened; all users are encouraged to participate in the elections. Voting will conclude 23:59 (UTC) on 28 March 2010. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:38, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Regimental depot
David, I've removed the redirect from this article and expanded (if that's the right term for three lines) into its own stub. I've only done it because WildBot is picking up the redirect depot#military as a disambig that needs to be repaired despite that usage being correct. I think it's to do with depot being a disambig page where Regimental depot wasn't broken out (I've also changed that). If you disagree and want to revert feel free, like I say it's just to get round the WildBot issue. NtheP (talk) 16:36, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

talk:VC
Thanks. (I was about to attempt to enlist your expertise ... !) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:03, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Knox VC
I read it in the Times this morning and I was intrigued then. I will have a read through my books tomorrow when I've got some free time and access to a couple more sources. Thanks, Woody (talk) 16:55, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Bells at Sussex churches
Hi David – thanks for updating the bells info at Holy Trinity Church, Cuckfield and St Mary's Church, Slaugham; the sources I had were very sketchy on the subject. <font face="Helvetica"><font color="#00BFFF">Hassocks <font color="#228B22">5489 (tickets please!) 21:54, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Clarke
Hi - thanks again for work on Connolly. I wonder if you could have a look at John Erskine Clarke also on DYK. I assume there are references for his Royal chaplaincy, but you might also have some input on the parish mag matter. Thanks Motmit (talk)

Catholic Church RfC
Input is welcome at Requests for comment/Catholic Church. SlimVirgin talk  contribs 00:24, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Random(?)
I enjoy interacting with you, appreciate it when you give me your opinions (and answer my questions), and enjoy reading your replies. Thank you. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

(As the man said: "You can never have too many Barnstars" even when/if you're not American ... Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:45, 30 March 2010 (UTC))

Quotations and punctuation.
Hi David.

I changed the punctuation in a quote, as I believe it to be wrong punctuation. You reverted my change, and I credit you for giving your reason. I accept that one can't change the words in a quote, but the punctuation is only one person's interpretation of what the punctuation should be. So, even if 'the source' has (IMHO) wrong punctuation, Wikipedia doesn't have to also misrepresent the punctuation.

In the quote in question, the person said two clauses. They were related, but neither was a subordinate clause. I would maintain that it's incorrect punctuation to join 2 main clauses together with a comma, although sadly one sees this often (it's an error). One can use a full stop, or sometimes a colon, semi-colon or hyphen, but not a comma.

I thought I'd mention it, but of course it's not worth getting heated about it, so I don't intend undoing your revert. Enjoy your further edits. Trafford09 (talk) 22:49, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Naval Officers in the Gazette
David

as a guru on the London Gazette i'm wondering if you can help me out with something. I'm trying to trace the gazetting of a DSO and DSC to Edward Preston Young (RNVR officer). I've located one of his two DSC's and a mention in dispatches (issues 35950 & 35743 respectively) but I'm having problems finding the other DSC and his DSO. Partly because with navy officers not having a service number there isn't that to search on. Also as a subsidiary question were temporary promotions as in RNVR to t/Sub-Lt gazetted? According to unithistories.com Young never held a substantive rank going from t/Sub-Lt to t/Lt to T/Acting Lt-Cdr to T/Acting Cdr. I'd have thought some public record would have existed? thanks NtheP (talk) 16:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip. PrestonYoung found the two decorations but still nothing on the promotions.  Perhaps it's the whole "hostilities only" nature of the RNVR? NtheP (talk) 12:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * very kind of you to look him up in the Navy List. The best information I have is t/Sub-Lt 12? April 1940, t/Lt 12 April 1941, T/A lt-Cdr May/June 1944, t/a Cdr May-July 1945. NtheP (talk) 15:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks NtheP (talk) 15:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : XLIX (March 2010)
The March 2010 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:33, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Horses in World War I
Hi David! I have finally gotten back to the HiWWI article, and your comments about the Battle of Cambrai. I would like to add some of the information you provided, but need page numbers for your source. Please see my proposed wording on the article talk page. Thanks! Dana boomer (talk) 00:51, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Charles John Wingfield
Hello David. Just want to say good job on the improvements to this article! Cheers --Rosiestep (talk) 01:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

WWII Merchant Navy Gallantry awards
I don't know about being the most active contributor on WWII merchant ships. I'm only working on the Empire ships at the moment. There's thousands of others, including all the Liberty ships, Victory ships, Park ships, Fort ships and the thousands of other ships on all sides.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I suppose it's a question of searching by each individual ship's name. Mjroots (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Claude Choules
Hi. I just wanted to drop you a quick note, clarifing my edit to the Claude Choules page. I did not mean to infer that he should be referred to as "Mr. Choules" in the article. I was only trying to bring better clarity to the sentence about his marriage. It originally read, "He was married to Ethel for 80 years". I added "his wife" to that sentence. You said that it was redundant, which I cede to you, it is. However since (unlike, say Jackie Onassis), Mrs. Choules was not a noteworthy person on her own, I felt that it reads a bit better as, "Choules and his wife Ethel were married for 80 years". I did not mean to emphasise the importance of referring to Claude Choules as "Mr. Choules". All the best-Mk5384 (talk) 05:43, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

William Clark
I've taken a closer look at his records on Ancestry. In August 1915 he was transferred from 2/DWR to 1 Garrison/PWO under general order WO9/Gen 5294 - this is specifically noted in his service record. I don't know what this GO is but I'm assuming it authorised the transfer of men from one corps to another. At this time his service number changed to 22739. It appears he served out his 7 year enlistment with 1 Garr/PWO before being discharged and re-enlisting in DWR with service number 29890. Among the Ancestry documents are post-war ones between PWO and DWR making sure his records e.g. his entitlement to his 1914 Star, end up in the same place. 9378 was his original number when he joined 3/DWR. NtheP (talk) 18:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Makes sense, looks like that Garrison battalion was on Malta, so if 2nd Bn WRR still maintained a base there it would be logical that he might end up ina garrison battalion there. The garrison battalions seem generally to have been made up of men whose medical status was not up to them fighting in the front line - another chap I've researched, Harry Jones, had two years in a garrison battlaion of the Cheshires at Gibraltar.  The War Office order you found reference may well set out the medical categories.  The other medal card that his PWO number helped me find is his 1914 Star entitlement, remarks that he was discharged.  David Underdown (talk) 09:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I agree with your reasoning, I'll see if his medical history sheds any light.  I'm still surprised by the transfer from DWR to PWO as I didn't think such transfers were that common. NtheP (talk) 12:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Less common at that stage of the war, but far from unknown, particularly when someone returned to active service from illness or injury. Became virtually the norm later in the war as manpower concerns became more pressing.  The Cheshires bloke I mentioned above was eventually transferred to a frontline unit, presumably as the war progressed they downgraded medical standards slightly to get the number of people they needed.  David Underdown (talk) 12:51, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Same as our man here. Re-enlisted into DWR in 1916 sent to 8/DWR in France at New Year 1917 and served with that unit until discharge in 1919.  Then in 1925 joined the TA (6 DWR) until 1933 so he can't have been too unfit at any stage from 1916 onwards.  He was certainly wounded at some point by a hand grenade and just before his first discharge in 1916 was in hospital in Halifax. NtheP (talk) 12:57, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I looked your TNA account up and it seems we have more in common as I work for MoJ ICT (but not based in London} NtheP (talk) 19:16, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

St. Mary's Church, Chesham
Thanks for your changes to this one. I've made a couple of (very) minor amendments; I've removed the "Originally part of the Diocese of Lincoln" from the lead as because the foundation date is unknown, it could conceivably have been founded under Edward the Confessor or in the immediate aftermath of the Conquest, when the diocese was still Dorchester; I've also dug out a precise date for Sturdy's bell.

I'm quite pleased with the way this one's turned out; given that it's not all that distinguished a building and hasn't much historical significance, there's a surprising amount to say about it. It may attain the unusual distinction of failing at GAC but passing at FAC, too; I didn't submit it straight in to FAC mainly because they tend to look askance at brand new articles, but I'm fairly confident it meets the FA criteria. – iride  scent  11:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * No problems, wasn't entirely happy with my wording anyway. I'd be interested and so would the folks at Dove in the evidence for that precise date - they accept updates if supported by good information.  David Underdown (talk) 12:34, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It's from Foxell, p16 – the exact quote is "[Edward's] inventory states that St Mary's possessed 'v bells in the stepill', one of which would have been the saunce bell made by John Sturdy in 1458." Nothing to indicate where the Foxells got the date, but I've no reason to doubt him; although this particular book is self-published, Clive Foxell is a CBE and FREng, and a bona fide architectural historian (best known for books on railways, but thanks to Scott the railway/church crossover is quite strong – "broad airy shed with as few obstructing columns as possible" is the same design whether it's used to house trains or pews). He's contactable at the address given here (which as far as I know is still accurate), if you need to ask exactly where he got the date from. (He lives in Chesham, so I assume was working directly from parish records and local archives.)


 * Having just looked more closely, I see that Foxell actually contradicts the church's own website both for the date of manufacture and the date of installation ("There is also a Sanctus bell by John Sturdy dating from 1445 although it did not arrive at Chesham until maybe the 18th century. It is very much smaller than the others and is not part of the ring."). Verifiability Not Truth and all that, but maybe it would make sense to take the mention of Sturdy's bell out altogether, or reword it as vaguely as possible. ("The church has a 16th century sanctus bell made by John Sturdy", or the like.) –  iride  scent  15:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * (adding) Actually, the current wording ("A bell cast in 1458 by John Sturdy is still used as a Sanctus bell and is regarded as having national historic significance") doesn't actually say when the bell came to this particular church. I've put the date back to "in about 1450" to avoid potential inaccuracy. – iride  scent  15:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, neither Dove nor the Churchcare database gave that level of detail, so while I was assuming the Sanctus bell was one of the originals, I was careful not to categorically state it was one and the same. My grandfather was Provost of Wakefield Cathedral when Eric Treacy was bishop, so I'm well aware of the various overlaps between churches and railways!  David Underdown (talk) 16:01, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

London Philharmonic Choir
Hi David, I'm new to the wiki editing community and I have been working on the London Philharmonic Choir (LPC) page on and off for a couple of months adding to the history and general information about the choir. I'm a member of the LPC and also have been helping out with cataloguing their archive (which sparked off this interest in getting the information out there). My initial search of other choir related wiki pages returned articles that were at start or stub class. I would personally rate the LPC page at about C to borderline B class. Right now the information is up there and contain inline citations but lacks the prose and flow. My aim is to get the LPC page to at least GA status in the hopes that other choirs could use it as a template to populate their respective pages.

I have read your profile and note that you are a chorister and interested in classical music. I've also seen some of your contributions to wiki pages which have gone to GA or FA status and I was wondering if you are able to give some editorial feedback on how to improve the page. Your help will be great appreciated. Many thanks! Noel (Noelypole 08:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noelypole (talk • contribs)


 * I've had a quick look and done some basic tidying. There's no real consistency of formatting references, all should use the same style, since some cite news and similar they all should, but remember that cite news is really just for newspapers and similar, things like the Musical Times should probably use cite journal, and general websites should use cite web, the changes I've made  should help you to see what else needs doing ot use these templates as they are menat to be used.  There's a lot of overlinking, generally something should only be linked the first time it's mentioned, check over the article to make sure this is done consistently.  The main thing that needs work is that the Lead, the section before the Table of Contents should a complete summary of the article, taking out your "introduction" header would actually help with this, but hte lead should also briefly cover the history, mention some recordings and high-profile concerts and conductors.  I see you put references before punctuation, this is "allowed" by the style guide, but it is more common to have them after, and to my eye that looks better too, but that's very much a matter of personal preference.  David Underdown (talk) 09:27, 23 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That was a very fast response. Thank you! Referencing isn't my forte so I'm learning on the job. Will work on the Lead section as well. I will let you know once the next lot of changes are made as per your recommendations. (Noelypole 10:30, 23 April 2010 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noelypole (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks for the edits on the page so far. I received an email from the Choir Manager of the LPC. He has an issue with the addition of "The" to London Philharmonic Choir. The choir 'rebranded' with the Charity Commission in 2004 and omitted the "The" in the title and the committee agreed that further mention of the choir should not be prefixed with "The". (http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/SHOWCHARITY/RegisterOfCharities/SearchMatchList.aspx). Like you, I agree that the addition of "The" reads better. I basically told him, if he wants to change it, he can go ahead and do it himself. In the meantime I have added the Lead summary to the LPC wikipage. I suspect it is a bit too long and may need a bit of pruning. Do I need to add inline citations to this section? Again your suggestions to this section is much appreciated. Noelypole 00:15, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I did wonder if was going to be a case like Wigmore Hall, which similarly prefers not to have "the" used in front of it. It's important to remember though that this page isn't under the choir's control, and the style guide that matters is WP:MOS.  Consistency is also important, you'd only removed "the" from in front of only occurence of "LPC".  Ultiately, that sort of thing is probably best discussed with the Good Article and Featured Article reviewers.


 * The lead now seems about right - you don't need citations there, since everything in it should be dealt with more fully int he body of the article. Realy though, the lead is the Intorduction to the article, so I think another heading might be better, not quite sure what at the moment though.  Look over the article again, the main thing that now strikes me is the trivia section, per WP:TRIVIA these are strongly discouraged.  If the incidents are notable (and see the one about Elizabeth Watts being hit on the head with the baton is uncited), it would be better to simply incorporate them into the relevant part of the history.  David Underdown (talk) 09:26, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

David Bedford
Hi, and thanks for your additions to David Bedford. In case you didn't know, I nominated the article for DYK on April 24 (yesterday). Any further expansion and assistance with issues that may be raised by the DYK team will be apprciated. --A Knight Who Says Ni (talk) 15:43, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : L (April 2010)
The April 2010 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:14, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Cambrai
Technically, re: the description of the device, you're right that the link was wrong (Fuse (explosives)). But the spelling of the HE device to which you are correctly referring (Fuze/fuse), can still be spelt with an "S", the UK way. Dapi89 (talk) 10:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It was discussed to death on Talk:Falklands War, and the consensus there was that fuze was correct in British English for anything much more than a slowmatch. It'll be in the archives, but various people with professional experience made the case.  David Underdown (talk) 10:59, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just added both. Dapi89 (talk) 11:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

For info
Just so you know, you were cut off mid stride in this contribution David. Ranger Steve (talk) 20:22, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ta, I was edit-conflicted twice, and obviously didn't quite manage to copy and paste my entire contribution. David Underdown (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Heads up
Just to let you know I have removed the copyright tag from File:Gilbert MacKereth WO 372-13 medal card.JPG. Effectively all items prior to 1952 are now considered to be PD by the MoD, so no crown copyright tagging for unfree images is required. The same also goes for images that the Imperial War Museum may feel are theirs, as they prefer to make some money by selling them, even though many are by news media war correspondents and not military photographers. I do work, as a Military archivist in a couple of regimental museums, as well as film and photography for one currently active regiment. Richard Harvey (talk) 16:09, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As I had already said on your page, I can't see any justification for that opinion. Let it be thrashed out on the unfree image page.  David Underdown (talk) 16:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination for Gilbert MacKereth
I nominated Gilbert MacKereth for DYK, perhaps you would be interested in reviewing it: Template talk:Did you know.--Supertouch (talk) 16:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Horses in World War I
Hi David! I'm planning to take HiWWI to FAC shortly, but one of the links you have found for me (which provides what is IMO quite valuable information) has gone dead. I can't find a replacement for it, and I'm hoping that you might have better luck. The link is Lions Led by Donkeys, specifically the section on David Campbell, written by the University of Birmingham's Centre for First World War Studies. I'm hoping this report was printed in book or journal form someplace, as it seems to have disappeared from the web completely, but I haven't been able to find such a publication so far. If you have the time and interest to search for this, it would be much appreciated. If not, I guess I can just comment the information out until we find a replacement source, but I'd rather not have to! Thanks in advance, Dana boomer (talk) 21:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, scratch that. Another editor found an archived link for me. However, it would be great if you could take a last look over the article and make any final comments before FAC. Dana boomer (talk) 02:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks liek they've had a website redesign. I've emailed the centre to see if it's permanently lost, or might come back. There were I think plans for a book anyway.  David Underdown (talk) 07:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to say a big thanks for the help the article is looking good (Rovington (talk) 06:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC))

Thanks
Thanks for the heads-up on redirects, I was, unfortunately, quite engaged in undoing redirects via popups; now I know.--Supertouch (talk) 22:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

David Campbell
I really think that the text you have drafted at User:David Underdown/David Campbell (British Army officer) is far fuller and better than the article as currently drafted. Do you have any objection to me deleting the current text (except for the infobox which I will retain) and importing you text in its entirety? Dormskirk (talk) 20:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There's still more I was hoping to do (one article to find in aprticualr, and my account stops rather abruptly just before the Boer War at the moment, but it might get someone else to do more work on it if it's in mainspace of course. To preserve the history, we may need to do history merge, rather than in effect do a cut and paste - we may need to take advice on that.  I was hoping to get a DYK on the First World War lance charge as well, butit's not reallya  big deal, but would need some work doing on a WWI section.  I originally did all sorts of reading on Maltese history as well to try and make some sense of his role as Governor - it was a bit of a testing time. David Underdown (talk)
 * On reflection there seems to be little overlap between the two articles. Yours is largely about the period upto the Boer War whereas the mainspace article is largely about the period from the Boer War onwards - so only a couple of lines of the main space article would have to be deleted. I had it in mind just to paste all your work in (you might want to do it yourself so it is clear who wrote it). I don't think we need to do history merge if all the new material is coming from one new source (i.e. yourself). But I really think it would be good to get your excellent work on this chap into mainspace Dormskirk (talk) 11:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've asked for advice at Wikipedia talk:How to fix cut-and-paste moves‎ David Underdown (talk) 14:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ideal. Thanks. Dormskirk (talk) 23:18, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

A history merge wouldn't be possible, the resulting diff would look weird. The diff would look like this with David's recent edits interspersed. Histmerges are used when a page has been copied and pasted into another page and there is a clear split.

In this case, in terms of attribution, it would be fine if David simply copies the text in manually. If you wanted to maintain the history of the individual edits you can move the page as a subpage of the talkpage so Talk:David Campbell (British Army officer)/Merge and then leaving the copied template on Talk:David Campbell (British Army officer. Woody (talk) 16:07, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to keep coming back to this but it does look as if the best route would be for you to cut and paste your excellent work into the article Dormskirk (talk) 21:44, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent job. Many thanks Dormskirk (talk) 21:47, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Richard Baker Wingfield-Baker
Thanks, David, for adding all that info from the Gazette! Cheers --Rosiestep (talk) 15:10, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

First World War/World War I usage
Thanks for the tip. Broken Sphere Msg me 16:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Convoy PQ 17
According to the list of ships lost from the convoy (linked in article), 24 is correct (count them). Mjroots (talk) 07:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Order of battle for Convoy PQ 17 gives these losses -


 * 1) Alcoa Ranger
 * 2) Aldersdale
 * 3) Bolton Castle
 * 4) Carlton
 * 5) Christopher Newport
 * 6) Daniel Morgan
 * 7) Earlston
 * 8) El Capitan
 * 9) Empire Byron
 * 10) Fairfield City
 * 11) Hartlebury
 * 12) Honomu
 * 13) Hoosier
 * 14) John Witherspoon
 * 15) Navarino
 * 16) Olopana
 * 17) Pan Atlantic
 * 18) Pan Kraft
 * 19) Paulus Potter
 * 20) Peter Kerr
 * 21) River Afton
 * 22) Washington
 * 23) William Hooper
 * 24) Zaafaran


 * Which makes 24. Looks like a couple of ledes need correction. Mjroots (talk) 08:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Uboat.net seems to have the answer. Paulus Potter was abandoned and drifted for 8 days before being discovered. She was torpedoed when it proved impossible for a prize crew to secure her. Mjroots (talk) 08:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Allingham
Hey David, thanks for the message! I'll get a picture today hopefully, as I'm at the Redoubt now. Can I take a picture of the plaque to upload as well, or would that be a copyright problem of somekind (I recall various discussions on 3D images being photographed on FPC and so forth). Skinny87 (talk) 09:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

PQ 17, again
I notice you’ve doen some editing on PQ 17 page I’ve left a question here about the numbers, if you wish to comment. Xyl 54 (talk) 00:05, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LI (May 2010)
The May 2010 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 20:59, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

DYK for David Campbell (British Army officer)
Mifter (talk) 12:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

JFB Combe, et al
G'day David, useful advice on the National Archives vs LG. I am currently trawling for factual references with regard to the British honours and awards system, primarily for the Military awards and decorations of the United Kingdom page. Whilst the LG has been a very useful source, there are some notable gaps - eg I haven't been able to find an entry (Royal Warrant, Statutes, etc) for the establishment of the Order of Merit. I don't suppose you've seen any evidence that the Burma Gazette has been scanned and made available on line yet? I have recently been trying to get to the bottom of the discrepancy between Peter Duckers' claim of 24 appointments to the Order of Burma (in British Orders and Decorations) vs 33 on Christopher Buyers' website. I emailed Christopher and discovered that he had physically checked all of the Burma Gazettes (held in the British Library, St Pancras) to come up with his figure. Most of them hadn't even been removed from their original wrapping when he went there! So I am going with his figure - even if he has missed something, his figure will still be more accurate than Duckers'. Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 14:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I know the BL is about to start/has just started abig programme of scanning all their 20th century newspaper holdings. Don't know if the Burma Gazette would come under that though.  There might be copies in the files at The National Archives as well, but I don't know of any digitisation of those.  Can't help with the OM I'm afraid.  Even the London Gazette themselves don't include it in their medals factsheet http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/documents/medals (MS Word file).  Though I see it does give the date the Order of Burma statutes were gazetted! David Underdown (talk) 15:12, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * G'day David, thanks - it was worth a shot but I wasn't holding my breath. I already have been using the LG medals fact sheet and had already sourced the LG entry for the Order of Burma and Burmese Gallantry Medal Royal Warrants. Delegation was given to the Governor of Burma to approve appointments and hence the BG is the primary reference for appointment information rather than the LG. Christopher did a thorough search of the BG for awards of the colonial Burmese KSM, TDM, ATM, TPS, OB, BGM, and Burma Police Medal. The results are reflected on his website. Cheers AusTerrapin (talk) 16:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Welsh churches
Hello again. Iridescent has suggested that you're the person to ask for comments on some articles I've written recently. There are 73 listed churches on Anglesey, an area with which I have a certain residential connection (in fact, I live about 100 yards from one of them!) and my self-inflicted project is to write an article about each one, and get some at least to GA standard. I've got the weblinks for the listed buildings information, and a few relevant books including the Pevsner equivalent for the area. If and when you have a moment, would you mind taking a look and let me know how I could improve them? St Pabo's Church, Llanbabo and St Peulan's Church, Llanbeulan for example; the others you'll see through "See also"s etc. Many thanks, BencherliteTalk 20:02, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've seen several as they've gone through DYK. Have to admit that it's not an area I know, and so far none of them seem to have bells hung for full-circle ringing, in which case I'd have been able to dig out a few other sources.  The next week or so I don't know how much opportunity I'll have to look, but I'll try to get on them after that.  David Underdown (talk) 07:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * No rush, it'll take some time to write them all anyway! I doubt many churches on the island have full-circle ringing: I think there's a tower at SS Mary and Nicholas, Beaumaris; I suspect there's one at St Cybi, Holyhead, as that's another large old church. Most of the rest are on the small side. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 08:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems to be jsut Beaumaris viz http://dove.cccbr.org.uk/dove.php?searchString=SH604761&searchRadius=5&numPerPage=10&searchCountry=Ynys+Mon&searchDiocese=&searchPracN=&searchRingable=&searchBells=&searchNote=&searchAmount=%3D&searchWeight=&searchMetric=cwt&searchDetails=&searchGF=&searchSimulator=&searchToilet=&Submit=++Go++&sortBy=Place&sortDir=Asc] from Dove's Guide for Church Bell Ringers. I tried searching for Anglesey first of all, forgetting that the editors are Welsh...


 * I've had a quick scan through the ones you've done so far, and can't thnk of any major omissions. David Underdown (talk) 12:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Manor of Rivington
Hi David, thanks for assistance in checking the article Manor of Rivington would you be able to help in adjusting the citations that use the national archive, Lancashire Records Office, I am not sure how to create the link correctly in wikipedia except as I have done. Again many thanks. --PL.-Snr (talk) 17:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Richard Shephard
Hi David, thanks so much for helping me editing the composer's article. I've expanded it a little since: do you think you might be able to take a look at it? Thanks! Jay-Sebastos (talk) 22:20, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

London Gazette
Hey David, I'm currently in the process of re-writing Nick Parker and I've trawled through the London Gazette, but I'm missing a promotion (there's always one!). I can't find his promotion to major. He made captain in 1980 and lt colonel in 1991, but I can't find major! Any light you could shed on it would be appreciated! Best, HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   19:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind, User:Dormskirk dug it up! :) HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   22:59, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

London gazette links
None of the links are working on the Ramsay Weston Phipps page. I'm trying to use the London Gazette to look up F. Loraine Petre's record. auntieruth (talk) 01:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That's very strange. I've never seen that happen with Gazette links before. Are you sure (not to be patronising, just asking :)) you've got things like page number and issue number the right way around? I thought it might be that they were supplements, so tried adding the |sup=yes parameter but it didn't "un-break" the links. I'll do a search and see if I can locate the relevant issues to see if that sheds any light on it, otherwise I'll have to defer to David as the Gazette expert. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   02:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, it looks like a problem with their website, I can't get onto any of their pages at all. Judging by the hour (03:30 British Summer Time), it may be down for overnight maintenance or something, but that's pure guesswork. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   02:31, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * :) yes, don't have backward, at least not unless David did it backward. I'm using his link that he added to the Phipps article. I found some additional information on F. Loraine Petre in the peerage of England. I'll work on it more later this weekend.  auntieruth (talk) 02:39, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Site seems to be back up now, it does have its flaky moments. David Underdown (talk) 09:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Wylly
With all the rubbish and vandalism that goes on, it's almost "refreshing" to see somebody doing something useful! Thank you. Pdfpdf (talk) 15:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC) (Yes, it hasn't been the best of wiki-days ... )
 * Thank you, and I only started working on it because I've been researching Gilbert Drew, one of the many unnotable (in Wikipedia terms) casualties of WWI, and in doing that was following up where one of his sisters was in the 1901 census, noticed that there was also a young army officer called Guy Wylly in the house, thought the name sounded vaguely familiar, and checked the London Gazette. He wasn't the only prominent military connection that Gilbert sort of had, his father worked for Arthur Fownes Somerville, who in turn was the father of Admiral Sir James Somerville. David Underdown (talk) 15:27, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Well there you go! To mis-quote the bible: if you go seeking, you might be surprised by what you find!
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:34, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LII (June 2010)
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 18:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Alanbrooke
Woops, my mistake, Apologies. <font color="#ff0000"> Connormah (talk &#124; contribs) 21:24, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Soliciting feedback
I'm soliciting your comments & opinions here. (Thanks in advance.) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

A request
Hi David, I notice at WikiProject Military history/Logistics that you had access to the ODNB. There are a few bios that I would really like to read. Right now I'm working on a King of the Isles: Gofraid 'the Brown' (User:Brianann MacAmhlaidh/draft) who was the son of Ragnall mac Gofraid, and nephew of Amlaíb 'the Black' mac Gofraid. They all descended from Gofraid Méránach. Ragnall, Amlaíb , and Gofraid Méránach , all have articles in the ODNB. I can't find one for Gofraid 'the Brown'. If you could, could you please email these three bios? I'd like to move on into Amlaíb's article next, and I'd love to read these bios. There was sort of a family feud between Ragnall and Amlaíb, and it carried on to Ragnall's son Gofraid, who was actually blinded and castrated! Later, Gofraid shared the kingdom for a short time with Amlaíb.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:14, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Drop me an email, and I should be able to sort it out - of course any UK resident should be able to get access via their local library. David Underdown (talk) 09:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dave, I just sent you an email. Unfortunately, I don't live in the UK.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I got the emails, and the bios. The Gofraid Méránach one is great because it actually is three bios in one; with the bios of his son/successor, and then his son/successor. Lots of info I can use. Thanks!--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 05:44, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Reliability of databases
Caution... most of those arguing in favor of allowing citations to databases on List of Masonic buildings are doing so because they are members of WikiProject National Register of Historic Places... if their database is deemed unreliable they will have to change hundreds of citations, so they have a vested interest in arguing in favor of allowing it. However, their arguments may not accurately reflect Wikipedia policy. There are others who are very familiar with our WP:RS and WP:V policy who have a very different take on the issue. (I am personally undecided, tending to support which ever side of the debate I last talked to... but for a very persuasive editor on the "not allowed" side, talk to User:Jayjg). Please... get second and third opinions on your issue. Talk to those who have no axe to grind and who really know policy. Don't rely on the advice of those who are in the middle of a conflict.... from either side. Blueboar (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I realise that, and to an extent that's why I was trying to introduce a neutral example, in the hope it could be considered more dispassionately by all concerned. David Underdown (talk) 08:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Help needed
Hi David I have a problem with a link to the London Gazette on the British Commando article its ref 82 Gazette issue no 37134. If you clink on the link it directs to the correct page etc. However using the A Class link checker tool here WikiProject Military history/Assessment/British Commandos it comes up as a red dead link. Any idea how to solve the problem ? --Jim Sweeney (talk) 11:47, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No idea I'm afraid, you probably need to find out who maintains the link checker and ak them to investigate. The only thing I can think is that I don't know how 2live2 the data the checker uses is - the Gazette website did have some downtime yesterday. David Underdown (talk) 12:42, 22 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks --Jim Sweeney (talk) 14:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
David, thanks for the London Gazette additions to Battle of Sungei Koemba, they are really good. Point taken about the Gurkhas! Cheers Anotherclown (talk) 13:29, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Glad you understood, I realised that my edit summary was perhaps open to misinterpretation, for the record, I mean "not British" only in the sense that I wouldn't describe e.g. Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers as a British regiment. One piotn to rememebr, you are not "awarded" a grade of an order, but are "appointed" to it (unfortunately, despite their style guides various media organisations regularly get this wrong).  Strictly this even applies to the DSO (you are appointed Companion of the Distinguished Service Order), but that's too fussy even for me.  David Underdown (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Makes sense. Cheers again. Anotherclown (talk) 14:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I just don't want Joanna Lumley after me, thinking I've in some way impugned th ehonour and contributions of the Gurkhas! David Underdown (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Indeed! Anotherclown (talk) 14:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Samuel Gurney Cresswell
Hi David! Thanks for adding all that info from the London Gazette. I need to remember to look there. :) --Rosiestep (talk) 14:21, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

It's a pretty vital source for anyone connected to the British Armed Forces - the search can be a bit frustrating at times though. It was only because I happened to be able to get into his service record that I could track down all his Mentions. David Underdown (talk) 14:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Sir John Riddell
He's dead. I have added a source. Scotchegg (talk) 13:25, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Vere Bonamy Fane
David, as you'll see from the article I found a lot about him from the Gazette but I can't find any date or announcement of his promotion to Maj-Gen. Do you have access to anything? thanks. NtheP (talk) 16:17, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll try to look at the relevant Army Lists next week. David Underdown (talk) 21:03, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It looks like there is an (semi-)interesting court case when he was a child too.  From what I can glean he must be related to the Earls of Westmorland and there was some dispute over the settlement of a will.  The recorids all appear to be with Lincs Archive serive.  But it would explain why he's buried in Fulbeck. NtheP (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd tried ever combination of Fane, Vere, V B etc I could think of without getting those results to show! I think it's quite amazing how much about a person can be built up from just the official announcements in the Gazette. NtheP (talk) 09:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Major General promotion came up fo just under V. B. Fane (including the full stops is vital). For the Mentions, I must admit to "cheating".  The original index cards recording Mentions (not complete) have been digitised and are included in the First World War Medal Index Cards on The National Archives' website.  Since I can look at these without paying the £2, I do a search on there, look at the cards (if any) which give a a Gazette page number and date, and then go back to the Gazette website to find the actual pdf.  David Underdown (talk) 09:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Damm full stops! :-) I had a look at his medal index cards and saw he had 4 or 5 - are duplications of one person, if not the content, like that common? NtheP (talk) 10:01, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well the catalogue ref will tell you what sort of MIC it is, so in this case two of these were records of Mentions (WO 372/24), one was his Indian Army medal card proper WO 372/26 and the final one was a British Army medal card, WO 372/7, which in this instance is merely a cross-reference to the Indian Army card. For other people it's not that uncommon to find entitlement to a 1914, or 1914-15 Star on one card, and Victory and British War Medals on another, Silver War Badge entitlement can also be on a separate card.  Cards can also cover the Territorial Force War Medal, Meritorious Service Medal and Efficiency Decoration.  And actual duplicates do occur, particularly when there was some confusion over the spelling of the name, the other variation is one card under a person's real name, and another under the alias under which they actually served (these are usually cross-referenced on the card itself).  I beleive there are some instances where someone's entitlement was cancelled when it discovered they had deserted under one name and later served under another!  David Underdown (talk) 10:41, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up
I obviously did not realize there was a separate Arras Flying Service Memorial until now, but will keep it in mind in the future.

Georgejdorner (talk) 14:33, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : LIII (July 2010)
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Thought we'd been through this before
Hi David, I just ran across an edit comment that you made to some page that you edited after I did (can't even remember what article it was, now). It just struck me that if you're saying something like "I thought we'd been through this before" then perhaps that is a signal that something needs to change?

This all has something to do with a blurb about the Victoria Cross... I honestly could care less about the text, but I do remember deleting a bunch of rather blatant peacockery. Somehow I doubt that I'll be the last person to come along and remove that sort of text (I'm assuming that it's used in many places?). You might want to try coming up with something that others won't want to outright remove. Keep in mind that none of us will be around here forever, so playing defense against something that multiple people want to change is something of a "fool's errand".

Happy Editing! — <span style="font-family: Courier New, monospace ;font-style:italic">V = IR (Talk&thinsp;•&thinsp;Contribs) 12:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Only one other person has changed it, while essentially the same text is in use on over 1300 articles for VC recipients, including several FAs. Sometimes superlatives are justified, and in this case (Norman Douglas Holbrook was the article by the way) it's basically jsut a technical description of the position of the VC in the Britsh (and Imperial) Honours system, it is the highest award attainable for valour in the face of the enemy, and of all decorations, it attracts the most prestige, all of which is explained in Victoria Cross. David Underdown (talk) 20:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

St James' Church, Stretham
Hi. I have been thrown in your direction. I am drafting the article St James' Church, Stretham and came across "the organ was enlarged and improved in 1907 by Mr. H. J. Lister" here. Are you able to help expand this at all? I have sent an enquiry email to The British Institute of Organ Studies. --Senra (talk) 13:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I see Bencherlite already pointed you in the right direction. Bells are more my thing, not quite sure where my name was plucked from in this instance, I just sing along, the tech specs are beyond my ken!  David Underdown (talk) 20:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * On which note you should have a look at http://dove.cccbr.org.uk/detail.php?searchString=Stretham&Submit=+Go+&DoveID=STRETHAM which gives the detail of the present bells, useful terms are a ring of bells and change ringing. Of the bellfounders, there is an article on John Taylor & Co.  David Underdown (talk) 20:21, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice one thanks. Er, 6 bells! I checked the map so it is the correct church. Only 5 bells in GenUK:Kelly's and 5 bells in Pugh (1953) VCH p. 157 col. 1. Where do I go from here? Climb the tower and count them? I am not ungrateful; far far from it. Editing wikipedia is fun, but it doesn't half send you in circles sometimes --Senra (Talk) 21:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well Kelly's dates from 1929, and you put the date of 1953 on the VCH, Dove has two of the bells as being cast in 1951 (and there may be some delay between casting and actually getting the new bells into the tower, since it seems that they went from 5 bells to six, works to the bellframe would also have been required (and of course the research for the VCH was probably done before 1953). VCH says "The tower contains five bells. The treble is a 20th century addition; the 2nd and 5th are by J. Warner of London, 1876, replacing bells (1591 and 1615) by Thomas and John Draper of Thetford respectively; the 3rd is by Joseph Eayre of St. Neots, 1766, and the 4th by Henry Penn of Peterborough, 1727." vs Dove, "1 John Taylor & Co F, 2 1892 John Warner & Sons, 3 1876 John Warner & Sons, 4 1766 Joseph Eayre, 1951 John Taylor & Co, 6 1876 John Warner & Sons" so it looks to me like the "20th century treble" of the VCH was actually the 1892 Warner bell which Dove has as the second, and in 1951 Taylors cast a new treble (thus adding one to the numbers of all the other bells), and recast the 1727 Penn bell, the fourth of the old ring, now the fifth of the curent ring.  David Underdown (talk) 08:38, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Superb. Thank you for this analysis --Senra (Talk) 09:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * To avoid peals of laughter from you at a later date, would you check my bell (Architecture-exterior) and bell-ringing (History) notes in St James' Church, Stretham for clangers please. Of course, feel free to edit or make any other comments; it is entirely work-in-progress at the moment --Senra (Talk) 11:12, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * One thing that strikes is that the info about the bells is now rather dispersed through the article, in the history section you mention that the 1751 survey records 4 bells, and at the end of that section you mention the peals rung there since the 50s, and then give more info about the bells in the Exterior section. You currently rather duplicate the information about the 1952 additional bells (and at one point have Taylors down as a Peterborough company, rather than Loughborough).  It's also more usual to refer to bells simply by their number in the ring, rather than their (nominal) pitch - in change ringing it's the ordering of the bells that's important, not the musical notes involved.  I should also have mentioned that there's an article on Dove's Guide for Church Bell Ringers too, and it would probably be better to record the publisher as the Central Council for Church Bell Ringers too, and I tend to record the last update given as the publishing date.  I see that http://www.ely.anglican.org/bells/ely/stretham.htm notes tehre is no regular ringing at present.  If there'd just been a few tweaks, I'd have done them myself, but I thinkn I slightly more comprehensive rewrite may be in order as I've indicated, and I don't like to interfere too much while you're drafting.  David Underdown (talk) 11:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Your time is appreciated although I think I am struggling here with terminology and correct references. For example, I tried to weave in ring of bells and change ringing and I think I fixed the references, but not sure to be honest. I created a new section, Bells, but kept the 4 bells mentioned by Francis Blomefield as part of the history. I moved the rest to the Bells section and tweaked according to your notes above. Please do feel free to hack away if you have the time --Senra (Talk) 12:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

David Watts Morgan
Mr Underdown, I would appreciate it if you could give the above article a quick glance. You tend to pick up information from these turn of the century characters I tend to miss. It would be very helpful. Thanks. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:46, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Lord Ashfield's Knighthood
I note that you removed the Kt post nominal from Ashfield. I understand that, for those with just with a knighthood, the Kt should not be used, but I was under the impression that for peers who are Knights Bachelor this is acceptable, as otherwise the non-use of a "Sir" means the Knighthood would be unsignified. This is similar to the use of a post nominal "PC" to identify Right Honourable peers who are Privy Counsellors from those who are just Right Honourable by being a baron, a viscount or an earl.--DavidCane (talk) 21:44, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Kt is not listed in the Order of Wear as a postnominal, certainly in the current edition, http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/56878/supplements/3351 - sometimes in ultra formal usage, Knight, or sometimes Kt is used - warrants setting up Royal Commissions is one place where I've seen it, otherwise it does indeed get dropped so far as I understand it, similarly someone who is first created a Knight Bachelor and is then appointed to a knightly grade of an order which does confer postnominals uses just those postnominals. David Underdown (talk) 09:05, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Blair Swannell
This article is presently on a GA review, and on his [Service record] it states he was single. Can we assume that he was never married, i.e. they would have used divorced or widowed, or does it just mean he was single on entering the force and may have been married in the past. Cheers. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The service record is of course a primary record, so we need to be cautious in attempting to interpret it, and also bear in mind that there were few penalties for giving false information (the only thing they really cared about was not giving false information about any previous service in the forces). That said, the balance of probabilities would be that he had not previously married, though of course there was rather more of a stigma about divorce then, so it's possible someone would describe themself as single, rather than divorced.  David Underdown (talk) 09:20, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Evans
FYI: Is this frequent enough to report? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 22:36, 1 September 2010 Pdfpdf (Talk | contribs) m (10,666 bytes) (Reverted ...
 * 22:15, 1 September 2010 58.169.17.54 (Talk) (10,616 bytes) (undo)
 * 19:56, 26 August 2010 David Underdown (Talk | contribs) m (10,666 bytes) (Reverted ...
 * 19:42, 26 August 2010 58.169.17.54 (Talk) (10,616 bytes) (undo)
 * 22:35, 25 August 2010 Pdfpdf (Talk | contribs) m (10,666 bytes) (Reverted ...
 * 21:51, 25 August 2010 58.169.17.54 (Talk) (10,616 bytes) (undo)
 * 22:17, 22 August 2010 Pdfpdf (Talk | contribs) m (10,666 bytes) (Reverted ...
 * 21:06, 22 August 2010 58.169.17.54 (Talk) (10,616 bytes) (undo)
 * I odn't think so, falls outside WP:3RR, though it might be counted within the broader definition of edit-warring. It's so infrequent it would probably hard to get an admin to block for vandalism too.  Might be worth flaggin p at MILHIST though,  David Underdown (talk) 13:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * but if it stops the blanking ... - One can but hope ... Pdfpdf (talk) 11:08, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Elgarian spelling
Have just seen your formidable series of ripostes to the anonymous "Lyttleton" devotee. Most gracefully and authoritatively done on your part, if I may say so. Bravo! - Tim riley (talk) 14:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Given I warned the anon about 3rr several posts ago, is it now time to report them on WP:AN3? I've had about enough of them.  David Underdown (talk) 14:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Norman Biggs
Thanks for the touch up on the article. I'm not sure if you noticed but the article is presently going for GA status, though I'm not sure if WP Military think he's a big enough figure to attach to their project. But you may find of personal interest the video linked under External Links in which a tribes person from the Acipu tribe recounts their belief as to why Biggs was killed. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Blackham
Hey there, are you able to source some information for me on, Thomas (Tom & Tommy) Blackham, DFC. I believe was he was a WWII pilot and later, RAF Air Commander. Any information would help about an article I am about to write about him. Thanks, Spy007au (talk) 08:02, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thomas Henry Blackham:
 * Commission as pilot officer RAFVR: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/35654/supplements/3414
 * Flying officer: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/35791/supplements/5041
 * DFC (then in 50 Sqn): http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36459/supplements/1615
 * RAF (as opposed to VR) commission as flight lieutenant: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/38120/supplements/5306
 * These I found just by searching on Blackham for the Second World War period, full results http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/1939-03-15;1948-12-31/exact=blackham;event=world-war-ii;sort=oldest/start=1 You should get more if you do another search using his service number and no date restrictions. You'll see there are a few other Blackhams mentioned father and brother(s) perhaps?  David Underdown (talk) 08:51, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I will look into it and start drafting the article shortly. Cheers, Spy007au (talk) 11:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If you get a free moment or two, would you mind weaving your magic here. I'm too close to it at the moment and need a fresh set of eyes. Thanks, Spy007au (talk) 07:10, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Church of Saint Andrew, High Ham
Thanks for pointing me the church bells and church organs websites. I've been able to add bell info into this article. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Abe Waddington
Thanks for your additions to Abe Waddington. Two queries. First, is this considered a reliable source? Second, I have (I think) got access to the same source through a different route and I'm not quite sure where the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force comes from if he was in the Bradford Pals. Also, should we not say where he served, as that seems to be mentioned. My other tiny problem is that these records give Waddington as serving in the Royal Flying Corps in 1915, when he did not join until after the Somme. How do we know it is the same chap? I'm a little worried we are into OR here! --Sarastro1 (talk) 18:59, 13 September 2010 (UTC)


 * well it is a primary source, so it needs to be used with caution, but things fit. The medal card (I assume you've gone through Ancestry?) doesn't say he was in the RFC in 1915, that transfer would have been later, the 1915 date so far as I understand refers only to his first entry into a theatre of war, and so reflects why he qualified (just) for the 1914-15 Star.  The chances of their being another Abe Waddington who served with both WYR and RFC are pretty small, there certainly doesnt seem to be another in the medal cards (none as Abe, or just A Waddington), and anyone who served on the Somme was eligible for the British War Medal and Victory Medal at least, so it seems to fit with most of the info.  Both Bradford Pals and (1st) Leeds Pals went to Egypt in December 1915 which would count as MEF I think, and then onto France in March 1916, per http://www.1914-1918.net/westyorks.htm.  David Underdown (talk) 21:14, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, seems good. Thanks again. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:56, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

The Milhist election has started!
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has started. You are cordially invited to help pick fourteen new coordinators from a pool of twenty candidates. This time round, the term has increased from six to twelve months so it is doubly important that you have your say! Please cast your vote here no later than 23:59 (UTC) on Tuesday, 28 September 2010.

With many thanks in advance for your participation from the coordinator team,  Roger Davies  talk 21:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Church of St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk‎
Hi, thanks for correcting my mistake there! -- Beloved Freak  16:46, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, I should have remembered that Diocese of Liverpool was amibguous too! As you've seen I've also added info about the present bells - nothing seems to say which of the tower or spire they are actually in for these three odd cases. You'll probably be able to find information on the churches' organs at http://www.npor.org.uk/ too. David Underdown (talk) 16:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I'll start adding organ and bell info to some other articles I'm working on!-- Beloved Freak  17:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Third autoblock in days
Any chance I could be given autoblock exemption please? David Underdown (talk) 12:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

IP block exempt
I have granted your account an exemption from IP blocking. This will allow you to edit through full blocks affecting your IP address when you are logged in.

Please read the page IP block exemption carefully, especially the section on IP block exemption conditions.

Note in particular that you are not permitted to use this newly-granted right to edit Wikipedia via anonymous proxies, or disruptively. If you do, or there is a serious concern of abuse, then the right may be removed by any administrator.

Appropriate usage and compliance with the policy may be checked periodically, due to the nature of block exemption, and block exemption will be removed when no longer needed (for example, when the block it is related to expires).

I hope this will enhance your editing, and allow you to edit successfully and without disruption. Syrthiss (talk) 12:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * and since I didn't clear the autoblock, let me know if this doesn't resolve it for some reason. Syrthiss (talk) 12:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that seems to have done the trick. David Underdown (talk) 13:01, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Imjin
Thank you for your input on this (ie for being prepared to throw yourself into a fracas between two argumentative types going at it hammer and tongs); it is appreciated. It seems to be resolved now (which is as well, as I'm not around for a bit). Anyway, thanks again! Xyl 54 (talk) 13:01, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Roy Kilner
Thanks for the additions to Kilner. The expansion of the war section really help, I think. Just wondered, a little like with Waddington, whether the cwg ref for B Kilner is reliable: as a primary source, is it definite that the B Kilner on the card is Roy's brother? And feel free to comment at the FAC. It seems no-one else wants to! --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Tehre are certainly plenty of precedents for using CWGC data. There are only 40 Kilners in the whole of the CWGC register, and only four of thsoe have B as an initial, and the other 3 have full names given (the fact that the putative Bertrand does not indicates that his next of kin didn't fill the forms in for some reason), none of them are called Bernard.  The date of death, and location of the cemetery (within the Ypres Salient) matches the information in the other source.  David Underdown (talk) 16:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Italian cathedral bells and organs
Hi David - Do you know of a resource for Italian church bells and organs? I worked on Alba Cathedral and Amalfi Cathedral recently. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, nothing quite the same as Dove, there's these couple of webpages http://www.ringing.demon.co.uk/veronese/veronese.htm http://www.ringing.demon.co.uk/moreitaly/moreitaly.htm about a couple of Italian ringing styles which are a little similar to English change ringing, though they make use of chords, rather than strict ordering of bells. Some individual places are mentioned but I can't see either Alba or Amalfi on aquick inspection.  There are links to the relevant Italian ringing societies, if you read Italian.  Most places in Italy don't seem to do very much more than ring their bells at the natural frequency of each bell (bigger heavy bells will tend to ring more slowly), so you just get a fairly random bonging.  The organ building tradition is particularly strong either I don't think, if there is an instrument, it will be much smaller and more primitive than you'd expect to see in UK/France/low countries/Germany/Denmark.  David Underdown (talk) 15:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Robert Davies GC
Hi, the external link at the bottom of the article has some newspaper clippings (with dates) about the charges which could be used as references. DuncanHill (talk) 10:57, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I should have thought to look at that. David Underdown (talk) 11:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I only looked at it today and the page has been on my watchlist for ages! DuncanHill (talk) 11:32, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Red Cross parcel article
Thanks so much for your copyedit help on the Red Cross parcel article!! - Ecjmartin (talk) 11:37, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Choules
For questions about Claude Choules' combat status, please see the recent conversation at Talk:List of surviving veterans of World War I, where Choules' status as a combat veteran is agreed upon, and added to the main article, with a citation. Thank you! 2tuntony (talk) 09:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't really seem to have reacehd a definitive conclusion to my eyes. He served in a combatant role, under arms in "tooth" arm, which is the key distinction we are trying to make as agaisnt the female veteran, but it's still not clear fromt he sources cited that he directly engaged in comabt himself.  Referring to him simply as a combatant therefore seems the best solution.
 * Actually looking at the list, that refers to him as a combatant, not combat veteran. David Underdown (talk) 09:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll have to forgive me. I'm not smart enought to figure out the difference between "combatant" and "combat veteran". In any case, "combatant" is fine. It was "combatant veteran", and "combatantant", with which I had problems. 2tuntony (talk) 12:48, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * As I see it a combatant is someone who is trained and equipped, if necessary, to fight, as opposed to a non-combatant, e.g. medical personnel serving under the protection of the Geneva Conventions, who are generally unarmed, and not expeted to fight back; or chaplains. Whereas a combat veteran is someone who has experienced combat at first hand: so in fact a non-combatant could actually be a combat veteran, as medics can end up in the thick of the action, albeit they won't shoot back themselves (see e.g. Michelle Norris); while someone who is in a combatant role may never have to engage directly in combat, depending on whether their unit happens to be committed to action or not.  David Underdown (talk) 13:23, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the fact that Choules participated in combat has been substantiated in his autobiography, and as I pointed out, Choules saw combat during the scuttling of the German Fleet at Scapa Flow. In any case, I don't have a problem with the way it is worded currently. 2tuntony (talk) 14:29, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Just as a side note, your definition of "combatant" would make Frank Buckles one, which I don't think many people would agree with. 2tuntony (talk) 09:58, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not so far as I can see, he was a driver which was probably a non-combatant role, as there's no evidence he was in a fighting unit. David Underdown (talk) 11:40, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi David- thanks for your input on this. We did discuss, in the archives of the surviving veterans of WWI page, the varying definitions of "combatant". 2tuntony (now banned for sockpuppetry), using his previous identity Mk5384 was involved in this (I did have my suspicions regarding him, but never mind).To me, "combatant" can be a bit woolly as a term, and I would be inclined, on the basis of Choules' autobiography to list him as the last combat veteran, but I'm not a military historian. His book describes him as "the last combatant" so maybe out of deference to the man himself, we should leave it as it is, despite the potential ambiguity. Moldovanmickey (talk) 13:49, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Stockman / Jackaroo
How simple and elegant! (Why didn't I think of that?) Ok, I admit it - I'm impressed. Well done. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:46, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Except our anonymous friend has now changed the target of the redirect. David Underdown (talk) 15:50, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 15:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I tend to think that Stockman (Australia) would still give a better flavour of the work they are actually doing, but I'm relly not that bothered. David Underdown (talk) 15:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * On Wikipedia, context in which "jackaroo" and "jillaroo" are used indicates they are trainee station hands, not trainee stockmen. They are young, have just finished school, and work for a time before going to university or into a career. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 16:00, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't really know enough to comment, but the way they are described on the stockman article implies they carry out quite a few of those duties while learnign the trade in general - the ones like Edgar Towner certainly don't seem ot have been particualrly young at the time they are described as a jackaroo. David Underdown (talk) 16:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * They are like ensigns in the military; generally wet behind the ears, but destined for eventual leadership.  A stockman is more like a senior non-com.  69.3.72.249 (talk) 16:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

However, none of the above alters the fundamental problem that turning a blue link into a red link does not "fix" anything ... Pdfpdf (talk) 16:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I am following Red link. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm. That's one interpretation. (There are others ... ) Well, it's past bedtime here. Pdfpdf (talk) 17:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Quite, changing from a bluelink which contains information on the subject to a redlink isn't the noraml meaning of that, had you created the redirect yourself, you'd have had fewer complaints, most people won't see what you were doing as fix, but rather breaking, the normal term a when a link goes from blue to red, and not vice versa. David Underdown (talk) 17:04, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:REDDEAL addresses this specifically. Arguably, it would be better to leave Jackaroo (trainee) a redlink, not make it a redirect to an article that only mentions this jackaroo in passing, except that too many editors mistakenly "fix" redlinks.  One way you can tell if a redlink is "broken" is to check for incoming links to the redlink. 69.3.72.249 (talk) 17:15, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * When a link in an article was previously blue, I'm not convinced that this really applies - we are trying to convey meaningful information to the reader after all. I think there's category:redirects with possibilities for precisely this sort of case - there's enough info in existing articles to give people useful understanding, but the topic could be developed into a worthwhile article in its own right. In particular the part of REDDEAL which reads "a red link should be allowed to remain...[where] there exists no candidate article, or article section, under any name" seems to me to preclude what you were doing.  In this case there were candidate article(s) as shown by the possibility of creating useful redirects.  David Underdown (talk) 17:28, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Unknown French General
Any idea who this well-decorated person is? Photo is from Harvard Art Museum, who says he's General Giroflore (but there's no google hits for this name). Per Woody, the medals he's wearing include commandeur of the Légion d'honneur (the front medal around his neck), the Crimea Medal (British medal with clasps second from the right of image), the British Order of the Bath (large rectangular ribbon second from left on ribbon bar). It all suggests he was prominent in the Second French Empire,  Scewing (talk) 01:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No idea I'm afraid. I've only one book on the Crimean War, and there are no French officers in the index with anything like that name, and the picture doesn't match any of the handful of French officers pictured in the book either.  A search on the London Gazette doesn't turn up anything.  However, you could try looking through the contemporary indexes to the Gazette which are now also online at http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/indexes - the process of scanning and OCRing the results isn't always 100% accurate, and if the name isn't quite right, you'd be more likely to come across something that way.  David Underdown (talk) 09:37, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Citing National Archive references
David, is there any particular format to use when citing NA references? See for example Steam yacht. NtheP (talk) 16:22, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the official line is at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/citing-documents.htm - but I've now brought the article in line with my normal approach. David Underdown (talk) 19:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Perhaps we need a  template :-) NtheP (talk) 19:51, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Might not be so stupid I suppose, there's already NRA for linking to the National Register of Archives. David Underdown (talk) 14:29, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

List of churches preserved by the Churches Conservation Trust in South West England
Hi, It's been suggested that might might be kind enough to take a look at List of churches preserved by the Churches Conservation Trust in South West England which I put up yesterday & has been suggested as a possible future candidate for FLC.&mdash; Rod talk 09:41, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Peterborough
Hi David. As a major contributor to  the Petrborough  article you  may  be interested in the current discussion  about it.--Kudpung (talk) 07:20, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ronald Skirth FAC
The featured article candidacy for Ronald Skirth is now open. Comments from reviewers are needed to help determine whether the article meets the criteria for featured articles; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! Dwab3 (talk) 15:29, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Amended to reflect FAC, not FAR, Woody (talk) 18:23, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Christopher Elliot
Hey David. When you have a minute, can you see if you can track this bloke down? I've trawled the London Gazette but haven't found anything (there seems to be an RAF officer with a very similar name which makes it awkward). I would guess that his commission was in the 60s given his rank, but that's just a guess. His article is an unsourced BLP at the minute and the community has got it into its collective head that these need to be eliminated, so any help you could offer would be appreciated. Best, HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   14:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I've moved this page to Christopher Elliott (army officer), and slightly changed the description of his 2001-4 employment, following Who's Who. (btw Who's Who also lists a Maj. Gen. Christopher Leslie Elliott, born in the same year) Dsp13 (talk) 23:44, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you look at the article talkpage, you'll see I'd already worked out there were two of them. Which means that "army officer" isn't really sufficient disambiguation (and "British Army officer" is the more commonly used dismbiguator anyway). If one's notable they probably both are, one was Royal Engineers, and the other (after almagamations) Royal Regiment of Wales, but that's getting rather clumsy, so I think this might be an occasion wehre fullname is actually the most straightforward disambiguation.  David Underdown (talk) 13:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops, I should have looked on the talk page - sorry! I agree re page name.Dsp13 (talk) 15:44, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Any chance either of you gents could try and track him down through the Gazette? HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   23:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not actually particularly active on here right now. There are links to the search results by service number on the article talk page which will cover most things, and now you have full name/initials, you should ahve more luck.  David Underdown (talk) 20:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Have moved the page to Christopher Haslett Elliott anyway. As David says, on the Talk:Christopher Haslett Elliott are links which will send you straight to relevant Gazette results.Dsp13 (talk) 22:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance
I thought its time to say thanks to all the editors who have assisted me in the articles I have been working on; so I took a look at toolserver.org and it shows that you have done 23,690 edits. I think you not only deserve, but are entitled to the below award in accordance with the award criteria. I know that one is supposed to award this medal to yourself, but we never do, so I am doing it on behalf of you! Thanks for all your help. Farawayman (talk) 14:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Tom Pearson (rugby player)
Hi David, could you take a quick butchers at Tom Pearson (rugby player). I have a book whuch lists him as Thomas William Pearson CB, DSO, TD, DL. So as well as the DSO and the Order of the Bath there are other (minor?) honours to his name too, but I can't find them and I have no other mention of his military history. Can I actually add these titles to his article or is it an error. Thanks in advance. FruitMonkey (talk) 19:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * TD refers to the award of the Territorial Decoration, for long service in the Territorial Force/Territorial Army, it implies he was probably a part-time officer before the start of WWI. DL suggests he was a Deputy Lieutenant, which also seems believable, given his army record, and since he was educated at Mill HIll, he was presumably also from a reasonably well-off background.  David Underdown (talk) 10:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVI, October 2010
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Henry J. Wood
As one of the significant contributors to the article I wonder if I you might be free, and inclined, to look at the peer review I have proposed it for, following a major batch of revisions to the article. Most grateful if you can, but will quite understand if not. Best wishes. Tim riley (talk) 18:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

neologism
Hi David Underdown,

There is an interesting discussion in Talk:Falklands_War and I would like to know your opinion about. --Keysanger 20:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LVII, November 2010
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 22:13, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Oz VC #2
the media might be wrong. True. And the Pope might not be catholic. But if I were a betting person, I know where I'd be placing my money! Actually, I'm surprised to find that I'm quite excited! After such a long spell between Payne and Donaldson, two in two years is unexpected. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I know where my money would be going too (see my comment on the article talk page), but this seems to better meet WP:CRYSTAL - say what the papers are suggesting, and leave it to readers to make up their own minds. It seems to me it's also easier to edit this version once a presentation ahs actually been made "Following initial reports that an award was to be made, the second VC for Australia was present at the SAS HQ..." David Underdown (talk) 15:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

FYI: Your opinion is solicited at Talk:List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 04:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Volume LVIX, January 2011
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 15:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Field hockey results
Hey, David Underdown, long time enough. Today i want you to voice comment. Do you think we need a discipline section, example in 2010 Men's Hockey Champions Trophy, which i believe doesn't affect the outcome of the match results? Secondly, i need to rebuild goal template, do you think the current one (as the link) better or this:

54', 68'

What you think? I want to do a better job. Thank you. :) --Aleen f 1  15:36, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LX, February 2011
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 21:30, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Main page appearance
Hello! This is a note to let the main editors of this article know that it will be appearing as the main page featured article on April 20, 2011. You can view the TFA blurb at Today's featured article/April 20, 2011. If you think it is necessary to change the main date, you can request it with the featured article director,. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions of the suggested formatting. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :D Thanks! <font color="#4B0082">Tb <font color="#6082B6">hotch * <font color="#006600"> ۩ <font color="#DAA520"> ۞ 06:25, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

<div style="background-color: #D4AF37; border: 1px solid #1234aa; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 1em; -moz-border-radius: 1em; -webkit-border-radius: 1em; padding: 8px; height: 1%;"> <div class="plainlinks" style="background-color: #FFFFFF; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: #88a; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -moz-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); -webkit-box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 1em; -moz-border-radius: 1em; -webkit-border-radius: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; padding: 1em 1em .5em 1em;">

Peterborough is a cathedral city and unitary authority area in the East of England, with an estimated population of circa. Situated 75 mi north of London, the city stands athwart the River Nene. The local topography is flat and low-lying, and in some places lies below sea level. The area known as the Fens falls to the east of Peterborough. Human settlement in the area dates back to before the Bronze Age, as can be seen at the Flag Fen archaeological site to the east of the current city centre. This site also shows evidence of Roman occupation. The Anglo-Saxon period saw the establishment of a monastery, then known as Medeshamstede, which later became Peterborough Cathedral (pictured). The population grew rapidly following the arrival of the railways in the nineteenth century (the city is an important stop on the East Coast Main Line railway) and Peterborough became an industrial centre, particularly noted for its brick manufacture. Following the Second World War, growth was limited until designation as a New Town in the 1960s. In common with much of the United Kingdom, industrial employment has fallen, with new jobs tending to be in financial services and distribution. (more...)

Cleveland Greenway
It's been a while since I've seen you working your magic, but I know you can do it! In seriousness though, I'm having trouble finding much information on this chaps military career, and yet from what I can find, it appears he was a Colonel: he must have done something right! Any chance of you having a look around to see if you can find anything?  Harrias  <sup style="color:#009900;">talk 21:21, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * You do pick them. A very odd career from what I've managed to pick out so far, http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/exact=cleveland+edmund+greenway/start=1 and http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=2604778  Putting these together, he seems to have had a regular army career, retired as a major sometime before 1907 when he was given command of a militia battalion, 5th Battalion, The Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consorts Own), this would presumably have converted to a special reserve battalion the following year following the Haldane Reforms.  He must have retired again before WWI, when he was appointed a Draft Conducting Officer (i.e. he took charge of groups of reinforcements going out to France), he got enough service in France to qualify for the 1914-15 Star on 27 July 1915, but relinquished the appointment on 9 August 1915.  This Gazette search fills in a few more blanks http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/exact=cleveland+e.+greenway;sort=oldest/start=1  Ah ha, among http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/exact=c.+e.+greenway;sort=oldest/start=1 we can see that later in the war he commanded a depot (possibly, given that his medal card also mentions the East Surrey Regiment, the regimental depot at Kingston on Thames).  Also looks like his son married into the aristocracy http://thepeerage.com/p11784.htm#i117831.  I'll try to write this up properly over the next few days.  David Underdown (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Keith Thiele
Hi there, I just finished writing an article about Keith Thiele and was wondering if you would not mind having a look over it for typos etc. Thanks, Spy007au (talk) 05:18, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXI, March 2011
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 01:31, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Frank Watkins
Would you mind copy editing this article please? Also, I'm having trouble finding the London Gazette page mentioned at the end of the article. Appreciate your ongoing help. Regards, Spy007au (talk) 10:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXII, April 2011
To stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 22:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIII, May 2011
To begin or stop receiving this newsletter, please list yourself in the appropriate section here. To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. BrownBot (talk) 22:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Belgrave Ninnis
Thanks for your edit to Belgrave Ninnis. I'm new to this MilHist scene, so anyone stepping in to give me a hand is appreciated! If you ever come across an image of Ninnis, by the way, let me know, because that's something the article is currently really missing. <font color="#006400">Apterygial <font color="#006400">talk 11:50, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXIV, June 2011
To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to this page. BrownBot (talk) 22:44, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXV, July 2011
To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to this page. BrownBot (talk) 21:48, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Hugh Boustead
You deserve much of the credit for this, so I just thought you should know. Thanks again! Canadian  Paul  14:44, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVI, August 2011
To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to this page. EdwardsBot (talk) 17:46, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Project to encourage cooperation between The National Archives and Wikipedia
Hi! As someone who I know's spent some time at Your Archives, I thought you might be interested (if you haven't seen it already - this is probably bringing coals to Newcastle, though!) in a recently started GLAM project to encourage cooperation between The National Archives and Wikipedia. Ideas & participation welcome! Dsp13 (talk) 20:13, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've had some direct conversation with User:Mr impossible. David Underdown (talk) 20:27, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVII, September 2011
To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please go to this page. EdwardsBot (talk) 02:02, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Llandaff Cathedral
Hi David. I've uploaded a couple of files to Commons of the cathedral in its ruined state, pre-1736, and. No idea who the artist is; the prints were found in a Victorian scrapbook belonging to Jonathan Raban's father Peter. Hope they're of some interest to you. Ning-ning (talk) 23:51, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVIII, October 2011
To receive this newsletter on your talk page, join the project or sign up here. If you are a member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. EdwardsBot (talk) 08:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Season's tidings!
FWiW Bzuk (talk) 13:30, 25 December 2011 (UTC).

The Bugle: Issue LXIX, November 2011
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:22, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Reviving WikiProject PipeOrgan
Hello, David Underdown! I'm attempting to revive WikiProject PipeOrgan. As you are a member of the project I hope you would like to participate in its revival if you have time. Kind regards, Danmuz (talk) 11:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Charles Villiers Stanford
I see you have earlier made several contributions to this article. I have just have expanded it considerably and put it forward for peer review (here) if you would be interested in leaving comments for further improvement. Best wishes. Tim riley (talk) 14:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Harry Lee (cricketer)
You don't seem to be around too much at the moment, but I wondered whether (if you do poke your head around the door) you might be willing to have a look at Harry Lee (cricketer) and the corresponding A-class review? Your work on many of the articles I've written has been sterling, and any help you might be able to offer would be greatly appreciated. Regards,  Harrias  <sup style="color:#009900;">talk 12:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Military Historian of the Year
Nominations for the "Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:56, 15 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.

The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Parody music
As far as I know, this is NOT an article you have ever edited, or have any particular interest in (although it does, naturally, mention Sir Arthur Sullivan). Someone wants to hijack it for academic musical theory as opposed to general interest (at least that is my impression) and s/he and I have a dispute going. I would especially appreciate your opinion. Perhaps you will see in his argument something I am missing. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 13:25, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 09:42, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Ichthus: January 2012
<div style="font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> In this issue...

- Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity For submissions and subscriptions contact the Newsroom
 * From the Editor
 * What are You doing For Lent?
 * Fun and Exciting Contest Launched
 * Spotlight on WikiProject Catholicism

The Bugle: Issue LXXII, March 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 02:07, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIII, April 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 23:58, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

WWI Editathon
Hi David,

I don't know if you've decided yet whether or not you'll be able to attend the World War I editathon, but I do hope you can make it - it'd be great to meet you!

Just to let you know we've finalised the list of academics who'll be attending the editathon next month, along with their areas of specialisation. If any of these are topics you'd be particularly interested in collaborating on, or you want to suggest articles in those fields that need work, please do make a note on the page - it'd be great if we could have some suggested topics ready in advance.

Any questions, do let me know... Andrew Gray (talk) 14:14, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 14:34, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

GOCE July 2012 Copy Edit Drive
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:48, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXVI, July 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 09:13, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Ancestry.com
Hi. Having previously been involved in a discussion about Ancestry.com on RSN, in which you explained or agreed that material on that site is user-generated, could you join a discussion here to offer your opinion? A user is saying that some of the material on that site is not from users, but paid employees, and WP:BLPPRIMARY is also an issue. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 09:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you. David Underdown (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXVII, August 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Military history coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the project • what coordinators do) 08:53, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXVIII, September 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project and/or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Nick-D (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:31, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXIX, October 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Nick-D (talk) and Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXX, November 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 02:10, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:Anglican navbox colour discussion
Hullo, fellow WikiProject-er. We're having a discussion about the colours of Anglicanism navboxes. Please do come along and weigh in. DBD 17:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Messines (1917)
Greetings David, I noticed that you'd been involved in writing the Battle of Messines (1917) page a while ago. It's been extensively revised with a wider range of sources, so I wonder if you'd like to cast your eye over it and see what you think. regards, Keith.Keith-264 (talk) 10:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXI, December 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 09:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXII, January 2013
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 13:52, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIII, February 2013
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:02, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:George Frideric Handel
You are one of a handful of editors who has made at least 25 edits to George Frideric Handel. I am not a musical scholar or student and was hoping you might be able to help me organize George Frideric Handel.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:43, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIV, March 2013
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 04:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)