User talk:Dbothun1

Welcome
Hi @Dbothun1, and welcome to Wikipedia! I've made changes to some of the contributions you made to Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult because they had quality issues. In particular, articles should present factual information in a neutral voice and cite to one or more reliable sources, especially if it pertains to living people. I have found a Vanity Fair article covering the response to the documentary and worked on incorporating the changes you were trying to make in a neutral voice. It's also important to ensure that edits meet standards for English grammar and spelling; in particular, words should not be capitalized unless they are at the start of a sentence or a proper noun. Feel free to take a look to get a sense of the typical writing style and format as you get settled in.

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Happy editing! Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 02:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

June 2024
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted. Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. As noted in my above unconventional welcome message, replacing sourced content with unsourced claims is inappropriate, especially on articles about living persons. Though the above message assumed good faith on these changes, this is a second warning. Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 05:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
 * If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.


 * I made very small edits and someone came in behind me and changed everything making accusations of sexual violence. Since nothing has been proven in court, I changed it back. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I would recommend looking at my very few edits and then taking notice of the person who came in behind me added several paragraphs. I am NOT a content creator and don’t have my own page. I literally left a comment on a 7M Tik Tok page regarding this series and seeing the Wiki page, and adding more background story about its inception and people involved. I was coming back to add the citation/reference and the video link to the Wilking family’s pleas to get their daughter back and someone changed everything. This means someone saw my comment and immediately came over to make changes, which is 100% bizarre. I am in not fight with anyone but seems there is a content creator and people involved in litigation who are stalking people online and posting content to support their lawsuits. I never was intending to involve Wiki and whomever came behind me, is the problem as they stalked me to the WIKI page. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And they just edited the page again right behind me. So whomever is editing after me is stalking me to this page and making edits. This is pretty scary and unwarranted. I have NO idea who these people are or why they are following me to make edits. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, no one is stalking you; the only editor who has made changes to the page since you is me (and I saw this on Recent Changes, not TikTok). I took the sources that were in the article as well as a few additional ones and used them to expand and improve the article.
 * There's a reasonable discussion to be had about whether specific allegations made by the film are worthy of being mentioned on Wikipedia; the standards for whether or not to include allegations are higher when the accused aren't public figures. It would also be obviously inappropriate to state crimes definitively occured, as opposed to being alleged, though as far as I can tell no version of the article did this. At the same time, the film appears notable and the claims are widely reported. I'm of the opinion that the most appropriate thing is to include the claims but potentially remove the names of individuals, but I'd be open to seeking input from other editors on the article's talk page.
 * Note that it is still not reasonable to add different uncited claims or personal opinions to articles. Things like calling someone "a notorious social media platform creator who has been sued for defamation numerous times" is always inappropriate and especially so when done without reliable sources. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 06:20, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I have citations for my statements. Articles that have been published about that content creator. As well articles from Miranda Wilkins discussing that she couldn’t be part of the documentary that she is currently in civil litigation with one of the content creators. Happy to get those articles for you since you didn’t seem to find any. Dbothun1 (talk) 06:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://amp.tmz.com/2024/06/04/dancing-for-the-devil-miranda-derrick-statement-addresses-cult-documentary/ Dbothun1 (talk) 06:27, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2024/06/05/miranda-derrick-speaks-out-against-netflixs-dancing-for-the-devil-documentary/#open-web-0 Dbothun1 (talk) 06:29, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * == Miranda Derrick’s statement about Dancing For The Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult ==
 * Miranda has now shared a quick video on her Instagram Story to thank her followers for their support, and said she couldn’t go into “too much detail because of legal purposes”. In her statement, she confirmed she had seen the Netflix documentary – though she didn’t name it – and said she’s a plaintiff in an ongoing defamation lawsuit. Dbothun1 (talk) 06:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Miranda Derrick Says Her Family Has Received Death Threats Following “Dancing for the Devil” Documentary Release Dbothun1 (talk) 06:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * CNN
 * In 2022, Shinn filed a lawsuit claiming defamation and trade libel against several former church members, including the Lee sisters, that alleges the defendants made “false statements” referring to Shinn’s organizations as a cult, and launched a campaign to “cancel” Shinn “through flagrant, defamatory attacks on social and other media.” The following year, Davis, Fisher and Douglas, among others, joined a cross-complaint with the former church members against Shinn, his wife, their entities and other affiliated individuals. The claims accuse them of fraud, forced labor and human trafficking, as well as Robert of sexual battery. The case is scheduled to go to trial in July 2025 in Los Angeles; to date, no criminal charges have been filed.
 * Over two years ago, a 40-minute-long public plea made on Instagram Live rippled across social media. In the video, TikTok dancer Melanie Wilking and her parents claimed they had lost all contact with her 25-year-old sister, Miranda — now, Miranda Derrick — to a “religious organization” and that she was “no longer in control” of her life.
 * Melanie and Miranda had performed together as the Wilking Sisters, but the family said Derrick had disappeared from their lives. She was still living in the public eye, however, including announcing a marriage to fellow dancer James Derrick (known as BDash).
 * In 2022, Shinn filed a lawsuit claiming defamation and trade libel against several former church members, including the Lee sisters, that alleges the defendants made “false statements” referring to Shinn’s organizations as a cult, and launched a campaign to “cancel” Shinn “through flagrant, defamatory attacks on social and other media.” The following year, Davis, Fisher and Douglas, among others, joined a cross-complaint with the former church members against Shinn, his wife, their entities and other affiliated individuals. The claims accuse them of fraud, forced labor and human trafficking, as well as Robert of sexual battery. The case is scheduled to go to trial in July 2025 in Los Angeles; to date, no criminal charges have been filed. Dbothun1 (talk) 06:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://eightify.app/media/katie-joy-paulson-controversy-ethics-and-child-abuse-charges#legal-actions-and-protective-measures Dbothun1 (talk) 06:40, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://greatdebatecommunity.com/2021/10/19/katie-joy-paulson-and-legal-proceedings-my-truth-part-iv/ Dbothun1 (talk) 06:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult - All about the dark dance documentary on Netflix Dbothun1 (talk) 06:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Case Information
 * Case Number: 86-CV-22-17228 6 dash C V dash 2 2 dash 1 7 2 2
 * Case Title:7M Films, Inc., Robert Shinn, Miranda Derrick, James Derrick vs Katherine Manske Paulson, aka Katie Joy, Without a Crystal Ball, LLC7M Films, Inc., Robert Shinn, Miranda Derrick, James Derrick versus Katherine Manske Paulson, aka Katie Joy, Without a Crystal Ball, LLC
 * Case Type: Civil Other/Misc.Civil Other Miscellaneous
 * Date Filed:04/05/2022April 5 2022
 * Case Location:Wright County
 * Judicial Officer: Willis, Kari
 * Case Status:Open
 * Case Flag: Protective Order Pursuant to Minn R Civ Pro 26.03 Dbothun1 (talk) 06:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Just to point out Katie Joy Paulson claims she worked with the Wilkins on the documentary and states she was sued to stop the documentary. Katie was sued 4/2022, the documentary didn’t start filming till the end of 2022.
 * Katie Joy Paulson is an internet personality who describes herself as a blogger and an "investigative nerd" on her Instagram bio (@withoutacrystalball). She worked with the Wilking family for several years in an attempt to get Miranda back to her family while exposing 7M's alleged malpractices.
 * In an April 24 post, Katie claimed that she helped in the creation of the documentary as a consultant. She also revealed that Robert Shinn had filed a lawsuit against her in an attempt to stop the production of Dancing for the Devil.
 * https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/shows/dancing-devil-release-date-cast-plot-everything-know-far Dbothun1 (talk) 09:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sources need to meet Wikipedia's guidelines on reliability, which blogs, social media posts, and AI tool outputs do not. Neither do Forbes.com "contributor" articles, though that article doesn't appear to say anything that's not in other coverage like this Vanity Fair piece.
 * What changes specifically do you want made here? Please try to be specific and concise. I'm willing to help you, but I'm not going to trudge through a mess of internet sleuthing and court case IDs to get to the usable stuff. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 13:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * What about the article from The Sun, The Cut? Dbothun1 (talk) 15:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am challenging the fact you have not included the reason to which the other parties didn’t interview for this series and you need to be specific of the reason why being a lAWSUIT. Otherwise it sounds like they didn't want to when they couldn’t. As well the creator claiming she put all of this together with the Wilkings. Dbothun1 (talk) 15:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Who stars in Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult?
 * Katie Joy Paulson, who goes by Without a Crystal Ball online, has claimed that she is one of the people who have created the documentary.
 * Taking to Instagram, she wrote: "I am incredibly proud to announce that the docuseries 'Dancing with the Devil: The 7m TikTok Cult' is coming to Netflix on May 29, 2024.
 * "Bringing this project to this point has taken more than 2 years of extensive work with producers, directors and working with the former members of 7m and Shekinah Church.
 * "Robert Shinn filed a lawsuit against me and others involved in the production of this series, in my opinion, to attempt to stop the production and prevent people from coming forward.
 * While the lawsuits are still pending, his threats and legal action did not stop the production."
 * She then goes on to say she is "so proud" of all of the former members who will be seen in the series.
 * She added: "Their vulnerability and heartbreaking stories will be given a platform to fully expose the trauma and pain they endured while inside this group.
 * "Miranda Derrick remains inside the group. Public photos on Instagram with her family do not change the fact that she remains under the reigns of Robert Shinn and the team of mentors that control her career. Other dancers are also active in the group.
 * Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult - All about the dark dance documentary on Netflix Dbothun1 (talk) 15:49, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * TikTok creator Miranda Derrick says she's been getting a slew of threats since the "Dancing for the Devil" Netflix docuseries. Dbothun1 (talk) 16:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Miranda Derrick is telling her side of the story after the newly released Netflix docuseries 'Dancing for the Devil' insinuated that she was involved in a cult. Read More: https://people.com/dancing-for-the-devil-subject-miranda-derrick-speaks-out-8658419?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mobilesharebutton2 Dbothun1 (talk) 16:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * = Miranda Derrick Breaks Her Silence on Dancing for the Devil Documentary and Allegations She’s in a Cult =
 * “I can’t go into too much detail because of legal purposes, but I wanted to add my side of the story.”
 * BY SAM REED
 * June 4, 2024 Dbothun1 (talk) 17:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Who is Miranda Derrick? The truth about the TikTok dancer's life Dbothun1 (talk) 17:33, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/leylamohammed/miranda-derrick-melanie-wilking-tiktok-netflix-cult-claims?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bfsharecopy Dbothun1 (talk) 17:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am going to do my best to summarize the changes you're asking for:
 * You want the justification of an ongoing lawsuit added to the paragraph about Derrick and 7M refusing comment. This is supported only by Derrick's own statement, which is in the People Magazine source (already cited in the article, also linked above). That makes it a claim, not a factual statement validated by independent reporting. With that in mind, I have added this to the article.
 * You want various details about the "Without a Crystal Ball" account and its operator added to the article. This account is not mentioned in any of the reliable sources and it cannot be added without reliable sources. Please, for my own sanity, provide one specific reliable source that has the information you want added, and have a look at the list of perennial reliable sources to see if it has been deprecated or marked as unreliable (like The Sun). Do not just copy-paste the source; provide a link to the original content (or similar info for others to be able to find it).
 * I'll also reiterate my request that you be clear and concise in replying. I'm trying to help, but this flood-of-text style you're using is very hard to read and makes it quite difficult. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 22:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Miranda Derrick Breaks Her Silence on Dancing for the Devil Documentary and Allegations She’s in a Cult
 * “I can’t go into too much detail because of legal purposes, but I wanted to add my side of the story.”
 * BY SAM REED
 * June 4, 2024 Dbothun1 (talk) 04:35, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Dancing for the Devil’ subject Miranda Derrick says she is ‘not a victim’
 * By Lisa Respers France, CNN
 * Published 2:10 PM EDT, Wed June 5, 2024
 * CNN has reached out to Netflix for comment.
 * Derrick began her statement offering her appreciation for “the concern that has been expressed for my well-being.”
 * “Due to pending litigation, in which I am a plaintiff in a defamation lawsuit, it’s not appropriate for me to comment on specific allegations,” she wrote. “Though I will state that I do not condone abuse in any way.” Dbothun1 (talk) 04:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 7M Dancer Miranda Derrick Breaks Silence Over ‘Dancing For the Devil’ Docuseries: ‘I Am Not Being Abused’
 * Us Weekly
 * June 5, 2024
 * “I want to start by saying that I appreciate the concern that has been expressed for my well-being. Due to pending litigation, in which I am a plaintiff in a defamation lawsuit, it’s not appropriate for me to comment on specific allegations. Though I will state that I do not condone abuse in any way,” Miranda, who has, in the past, denied she is in a cult, wrote via an Instagram Story. Dbothun1 (talk) 04:57, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have read every single interview. It’s probably a lot for you. Just wanted to be accurate. My issue is in the statement that Netflix reached out to get interviews and statements from Shinn, Derricks, 7M, Shekinah but SINCE NETFLIX knew they were in civil litigation with Katie Joy (sun article advising as to her role in this documentary) 4/2022, Netflix was aware there was NO way for them to be in this documentary because of the ongoing civil litigation case.
 * Do you understand the implications? Netflix put this together understanding there was a 4 million dollar defamation case against Katie Joy Paulson (who directly pitched this series and worked on it) so legally there was NO way for Shinn, 7M, Shekinah, or The Derricks to be in the documentary because it would directly affect the case and anything they said or did or mentioned in the documentary would be used against them in the CIVIL case. As well Katie Joy was working directly on the series. Ask yourself would you work with the person who you were suing for 4 million. Interesting how Netflix completely fails to mention this. Interesting how the act like they didn’t know there was a 4 million lawsuit. Interesting how even after they only mention the lawsuit against SHINN but NOT against the person who pitched this idea and was working on this documentary. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/dancing-for-the-devil-7m-tiktok-cult-release-date-trailer-news Dbothun1 (talk) 06:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Dancing for the Devil: Release Date, Cast, Controversies & More
 * Netflix lanzará una serie documental sobre el culto de baile de TikTok de 7M: Esta es la historia de la secta
 * Miranda Derrick says Netflix 'Dancing for the Devil' cult docuseries put her 'in danger'
 * Miranda Derrick Breaks Her Silence on Dancing for the Devil Documentary and Allegations She’s in a Cult
 * “I can’t go into too much detail because of legal purposes, but I wanted to add my side of the story.”
 * BY SAM REED
 * June 4, 2024
 * Who is Miranda Derrick? The truth about the TikTok dancer's life
 * https://www.today.com/parents/parents/wife-bringing-bates-star-shamed-underfeeding-newborn-rcna117641
 * Kody and Robyn Brown's Home Not Visited by CARE Unit | In Touch Weekly Dbothun1 (talk) 04:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm really not clear on what you want changed. I need you to describe it as briefly and directly as you can. Please don't keep spamming sources that all essentially say the same thing as the ones already in the article. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 05:05, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I am replying to your 5:07 UTC comment here, because your replies being strewn all about this page makes it hard to read (this is a courtesy to any editor who might participate in this discussion, not only me and you).
 * Hello, I have read every single interview. — These are not interviews. They are all repeating the exact same Instagram story from Derrick, which is the only public statement she has made. That statement is now mentioned in the article, and has been since yesterday. Linking a dozen sources that carry nearly identical information (and don't mention the thing you claim they do) isn't helpful, but it's a quick way to exhaust the patience of anyone trying to help.
 * SINCE NETFLIX knew they were in civil litigation with Katie Joy (sun article advising as to her role in this documentary) 4/2022, Netflix was aware there was NO way for them to be in this documentary because of the ongoing civil litigation case. — None of your sources say this. No source claims that Netflix is the subject of an ongoing lawsuit. The majority of sources don't even mention Katie Joy; of the two that do, The Sun is a tabloid with serious reliability issues, and I'm unclear on the reliability of the Publimetro source but it only mentions her credit on the film and not the lawsuit. Even Derrick's own statement does not mention other litigants by name.
 * Netflix put this together understanding there was a 4 million dollar defamation case against Katie Joy Paulson — You started off here with concerns that the article contained legal claims about living people that hadn't been proven in court. That was a good instinct, even if the changes were bad. Now you're making the same type of claims yourself. I'm sure your internet sleuthing has dug up stuff that professional journalists have not managed to find yet, but Wikipedia is not a place for cutting edge public journalism, it's an encyclopedia. We only include content that is verified by published reliable sources. Even on talk pages, posting unsourced claims about living persons is not OK.
 * Interesting how even after they only mention the lawsuit against SHINN but NOT against the person who pitched this idea and was working on this documentary. — Articles are written from a neutral point of view and don't include user opinions, even if you're sure yours are right.
 * I'm going to stop engaging on this page because I don't think that we'll make any more progress here. If you're genuinely interested in editing Wikipedia, take some time to read the Welcome material I linked above and learn more about how to edit. I recommend starting by contributing in an area you're interested in but able to write in a more calm and detached manner about. Dylnuge  (Talk • Edits) 05:43, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I advised Katie Joy (whose name shows in the documentary) is being sued since 4/2022 for defamation I have the lawsuit number and a copy of the case.
 * I never said Netflix was being sued. I advised Netflix had to know since filming didn’t start till end of 2022 and they hired Katie Joy. This is why the Derricks and everyone else has not spoke nor contributed to the documentary. However, since Netflix did their job and you said the Sun article is not sufficient, then Netflix buried it. So the case is online in the civil courts and Katie Joy shows up on the credits. In the Sun article and EVERY single platform she has she discusses in depth her participation and her upcoming civil case. However it seems Wiki won’t accept it. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I never said Netflix was being sued. I advised Netflix had to know since filming didn’t start till end of 2022 and they hired Katie Joy. This is why the Derricks and everyone else has not spoke nor contributed to the documentary. However, since Netflix did their job and you said the Sun article is not sufficient, then Netflix buried it. So the case is online in the civil courts and Katie Joy shows up on the credits. In the Sun article and EVERY single platform she has she discusses in depth her participation and her upcoming civil case. However it seems Wiki won’t accept it. Dbothun1 (talk) 05:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)