User talk:DeLarge/Archive 1

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Mitsubishi Eclipse linkspamming dispute with User:68.101.64.76
Copy of e-mail sent to saeed@floridaeclipseclub.com, the owner of the FloridaEclipseClub.com site: "From: DeLarge, Wikipedia editor.

''Over the past week, someone with the IP 68.101.64.76 has been repeatedly inserting a link to your club into the Wikipedia article on the Mitsubishi Eclipse. Please note that this violates several Wikipedia policies, and it will continue to be removed. Further, steps can be taken to have this IP blocked, to prevent it occurring indefinitely.''

If it is not you, I would appreciate if you could either (a) communicate with the person directly and ask him to cease his actions, or (b) allow me to contact him and communicate directly.

I have tried unsuccessfully to contact the user several times without success: through his talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:68.101.64.76 through the article discussion page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mitsubishi_Eclipse#Links through the Wikiproject: Automobile discussion page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Automobiles#External_links_to_owners.27_club_forums

For reference, these are the Wikipedia policy violations:

''(i) From "Links to normally avoid" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:EL#Links_to_normally_avoid):
 * "3."Links that are added to promote a site. See external link spamming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Spam#External_link_spamming)"
 * "11. A website that you own or maintain."
 * "12. Blogs, social networking sites and forums should generally not be linked to."

(ii) From "Wikipedia:External links" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links) "Because of neutrality & point-of-view concerns, a primary policy of Wikipedia is that no one from a particular site/organization should post links to that organization/site etc. Because neutrality is such an important -- and difficult -- objective at Wikipedia, this takes precedence over other policies defining what should be linked. The accepted procedure is to post the proposed links in the Talk section of the article, and let other - neutral - Wikipedia editors decide whether or not it should be included."

''Please also note, the size of the Florida Eclipse Club (currently <70 forum members) means it is not notable enough to be included. It is not even the first link on Google when searching for "Florida Eclipse Club". There is nothing on the site which is not already provided for by existing links, all of which are ranked among the top 1m sites by Alexa, and which have 1000+ members - although this alone is not enough to ensure that your site will be linked; please read Wikipedia: Notability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Notability).''

''I will be posting a copy of this e-mail on my own talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DeLarge). Unless you specify otherwise, I will also post your replies in the same place in order to keep the dispute open and accountable for both parties.''

I look forward to resolving this soon, DeLarge"

-- DeLarge 08:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Other notes ~
 * In the "External Links" section of the Mitsubishi Eclipse article, I insterted text "ATTENTION! Please do not add links without discussion and consensus on the talk page. Undiscussed links will be removed." at the end of the links (added by User:SteveBaker to the article on the Mini, which was similarly spammed recently). This was ignored. I then added it at the start of the list as well, but the user as subsequently deleted it while adding his spam.
 * I did an ARIN lookup of the IP address, and it corresponds to Gainesville, FL. According to the owner's profile on the FEC site, he is from Gainesville, FL., so the WP vandal looks likely to be "Saeed", the FEC site owner.
 * The FEC not only fails to show up prominently on Google (the first 'hits' direct to Floridian astronomy clubs), but the first relevant reference to it is on another car club forum (DSMtuners.com), where a thread promoting the site has been started by the owner. The second relevant reference is the correct one, and the third relevant reference links to AutomotiveForums.com, where another promotional thread for the FEC site has been started by the site owner. In that thread, he is reprimanded for violating site rules by spamming. He has no previous posts in either of these forums.

-- DeLarge 15:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Reply by User:68.101.64.76 22:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * (incorrectly edited this page, so removed by bot, restored by myself)


 * To User:DeLarge,
 * I strongly urge you to cease your ongoing harrassment here. If you continue to harrass users you will be reported and your account will be banned.
 * Unfortunately, you do not understand how Wikipedia functions or works. The article in question is NOT yours, never was and never will be.
 * You do not call the shots here. If you did, you would be the only one with edit access and that is obviously not the case, and for a very good reason.
 * You have no case against these links or myself. All the assumptions you have made and about me and the links thus far are incorrect and you are only embarrassing yourself.
 * Have a good day.


 * -- User:68.101.64.76

The above text was copy/pasted to this page, the talk page of the article itself, and to the user's own talk page. In all cases, he deleted my previous comments, leading in two cases to User:Digitalme auto-reverting the vandalism via a bot (see the history logs of both users' talk pages for confirmation).

I added two comments to the talk page of the article, as follows:
 * I've restored my previous comments to prevent confusion. Please note that according to WP:Vandalism, "Deleting the comments of other users from article Talk pages, or deleting entire sections thereof, is generally considered vandalism." When responding or communicating with others, please simply add your comments beneath. -- DeLarge


 * To address your points:
 * I have never claimed ownership of this article, to which I have not contributed, and I do not intend to challenge any content which is added by future editors. I have simply upheld the Wikipedia policies listed above with regards to restricting linkspamming, and I will continue to do so.
 * Please take the time to read How not to be a spammer, especially points #1 & #2:


 * 1) Review your intentions. Wikipedia is not a space for personal promotion or the promotion of products, services, Web sites, fandoms, ideologies, or other memes.
 * 2) Contribute cited text, not bare links. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a link farm. If you have a source to contribute, first contribute some facts that you learned from that source, then cite the source. Don't simply direct readers to another site for the useful facts; add useful facts to the article, then cite the site where you found them.


 * My previous comments restored, third spam warning inserted as per WP guidelines for dealing with spam. -- DeLarge 23:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Aiiiyyyy, what a mess. OK, I reverted this talk page to previous state, after User:68.101.64.76 deleted most of the content. See previous version on history page for details. I've left the additional (incorrect) "spam3" tags, as I know that deleting these can trigger bots.

Hi DeLarge - as you've probably seen, the above warnings were not posted by me but by User:68.101.64.76, probably in retaliation to my vandalism warning to this user. I believe you have been very clear to this user. If you want to, I can try to engage the user in discussion - just let me know. Or you can at your discretion always ask for some admin attention here since the user does not cooperate with you to resolve this content dispute. The latter will probably result in a 24-hour block, with longer blocks for repeat offenses. For now we'd better leave the mess the user created on his/her and your talk pages for other editors or admins to see. By the way, if something like this happens again, instructions are at WP:VANDAL. AvB &divide; talk  08:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I've posted this proposal at User_talk:68.101.64.76. AvB &divide; talk  09:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

'''Issue closed? No more spamming in more than two weeks.''' -- DeLarge 19:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

John Miles and the WRC (an unusual combination)
Making remarks about John Miles but not aiming to call the Neste Rally Finland by its natural name, the Thousand Lakes Rally? Strange (LOL) Britmax 00:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It pains me to refer to the 1000 Lakes as "Rally Finland", just as I dislike "Rally GB" with a passion - both are (Warning! NPOV ahead!) so soulless compared to their evocative predecessors. The modern names are blandly corporate, concocted by committee, and typical of the creeping commercialisation of motorsport. Unfortunately, we have the FIA to thank for that; it reminds me of the old Billy Connolly routine where he rails against the bureaucrats who replaced Clackmannanshire, Stirlingshire and Falkirk with "Central Region" in 1975. Still, until the FIA reverse their decision, we're stuck with 'em.


 * However, I'm all for keeping the old articles intact when they cover the pre-WRC days. We can restrict the modern events to covering the post-1973 results (in tabular format), and that leaves us free to report on the old endurance events without being stylistically constrained by the current articles - useful when records aren't as complete as we'd like (just look at the gaps in the old RAC Rally or Safari Rally for examples of what I mean).


 * And I stand by my John Miles comment. Nothing against the man, who I've never met or even seen interviewed. I just think "Music" is the worst record ever released - more ghastly than any boy-band, novelty cash-in, or even Louise Redknapp's rendition of "Stuck In the Middle with You" (although that last one's a close thing). --DeLarge 10:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

In that case it may amuse you to know that I recall a contemporary review in the NME that described it as "Melodramatic Slush". And I'm quite a John Miles fan but prefer "Remember Yesterday" or "No Hard Feelings".Britmax 00:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Template:Mitsubishi Motors vehicles
Hi, I expanded your Mitsubishi template, added a few missing LCVs and Japanese market models. Hope you don't mind. --Pc13 08:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Suits me - I only built up the rough template using existing Wikipedia articles (Category:Mitsbuishi vehicles and List of Mitsubishi engines), but as an obsessive completist I knew there were plenty of gaps. There's still a few 1960s cars that need to be added, but they'll take a bit of tracking down. I'll probably create this template soon, actually - if other people are going to collaborate on it, I shouldn't be hiding it in my sandbox. -- DeLarge 08:47, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Mitsubishi engines
Do you have any information on the Mitsubishi 4M40 and 4D56 engines? Richard Harvey 08:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Created pages for both, detailing everything I could find...
 * 4M40 -- 2.8 L 4-cylinder turbodiesel. Superseded by the 3.2 L 4M41 in the Pajero in 1999, but the Delica stuck with the 2.8 L. Still in production?
 * 4D56 -- The 4M40's predecessor - best guess for first introduction would be the Mk3 Delica in 1986, as it predates the Mk2 Pajero's introduction (1987?) by a year 1982, with the first Pajero? EDIT: oooh, hang on - the 5th gen Galant had a 2300 turbodiesel in 1980 based on the Astron. That's a direct relation to the 4D56, which was a 2.5 L 4-cylinder, naturally-aspirated, turbocharged or turbocharged/intercooled. Production seems to have continued as far as 1998/99, but I can't see it being available thereafter.
 * Both engines popular in the Pajero, Delica and other 4x4s / SUVs. May also have been used by the Fuso Truck/Bus division, at a wild guess?
 * That's about all I know at the moment. Will continue to research them, especially the 4D5x, which at the moment is a "range" of just one, albeit in three different configurations. -- DeLarge 10:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Your-MMC.com
Link is to the Concept-X, on the Mitsu Motors page. Not Link Spam. I think it is a useful one. Cheers and keep up the great work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WiseOne76 (talk • contribs).
 * Original link was just to your-mitsubishi.com website, with no mention of the Concept-X, and was in fact labelled as "Mitsubishi Dealers and Models North America", even though no dealers were listed. Plenty of Google ads though, hence why it was removed.
 * Best place for info on the Concept X is the specific Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution page - I've now embedded a link to the press release info in the appropriate section, since that does seem an appropriate reference source. In fact, a previous edit of the page included the text verbatim.
 * On a not entirely unrelated note, your reproduction of the entire Mitsubishi Motors page is a violation of Wikipedia's GNU Free Documentation License. I'm no expert, but as far as I remember, if you're going to lift the article verbatim, you have to give credit to the source and attach a copy of the GFDL itself. See Verbatim copying for more details. Regards -- DeLarge 23:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)