User talk:DePiep/Archive 5

Careful with the taking out of content in articles into templates
Those templates may be whacked at TfD, because they could only ever be transcluded once and don't actually have that much content in them usually (with some exceptions, such as Template:Periodic table (alkali metals)). Double sharp (talk) 13:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know. Still for template maintenance, in many aspects, separating them is usefull. E.g. to make similar topics' tables actually look similar. Right now, it isd unorganised. I can add that linking to a template directly in the "footer"navbox as if it were an article (i.e. in reader space) may be subject to whacking too. -DePiep (talk) 13:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is why I expressed my reservations about linking to templates directly in the navbox earlier. I don't really mind the templates being separated out anyway, since they usually make it extremely hard to edit a certain section (Alkali metal's lead used to be terrible to edit), but sometimes they are extremely related to the article (e.g. extended periodic table). Double sharp (talk) 07:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree. Adding: 1) I skipped some when extracting templates (e.g. Period_6_element) because of that reason: very article-specific. 2) Later on, when I have a more complete overview (in the category, and in ), we can try to make templates more look-alike, e.g. the block-ones. In the process, I already have turned into single some individual Pyykkö model tables into one template, which I think is an improvement. 3) About your example extended periodic table: could be a single-use template (today), but now I could wrap it in to keep in within the page (small screen issue; see the slider below when zooming out). Another argument for templating. -DePiep (talk) 08:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * On your reverts re : I do not understand most of them (really, the legend in the table title?), and I wrote Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elements. You referred to yourself: "I am NOT ... going to" in the es, which sounds like taking things personally? -DePiep (talk) 09:02, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, I saved it before realising that it could be misconstrued. :-( I just meant that it would be useful to have a link for consistency, but you couldn't really write an article about Period 9 (there's not much to talk about period 9 alone), so I wanted to clarify things. Double sharp (talk) 14:45, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This edit re a Period 9 link is minor with me (although as I left it, it was linked to the right page & section). Most other edits in that model were layout related, a lot you did not address. Legend in the title row? Unbolding the essential elements? Reintroduce blockcolor legend separately while these colors are not needed as you write, here (as an unused legend)? Another irregular font-size in the bottom row? As you might get, I am not happy with the blanket-reversing. Especially since it was not broken. -DePiep (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2012 (UTC)-DePiep (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was reverting so that I could figure out how to change it and forgot to revert back the article. I've removed the unused legends. The font-size was another thing which I didn't notice. Sorry about all this. I've fixed it all. Double sharp (talk) 13:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Appreciated. -DePiep (talk) 13:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Metalloid templates
DePiep, thank you for your work on these. The use of legend boxes in the metalloids in the periodic system template is wonderful. Had been thinking about doing the same kind of thing for quite a while but was unsure how to do it without a lot of stuffing around. And lo and behold it happens just like that. Applause also for your use of the phrase 'periodic system' in the title. Sandbh (talk) 13:28, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this kind post. Any other things you have been thinking of, re the periodic tabel?
 * Have been thinking that the way Wikipedia color codes the elements into different categories is a bit of a jumble, especially the way the non-metals are done. I particularly dislike the wooly category of 'other nonmetals'. I have some ideas, supported by the literature, as to how to address this but that's a project for another day. Want to get the metalloid article done first. Sandbh (talk) 10:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can check & improve the legend of, period 7 looks incorrect now. -DePiep (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that in this template Ge, Sb and Po should be coded as metalloids (I think Po is better regarded as a poor metal, but that's another story) and 113 to 117 coded as unknown Sandbh (talk) 11:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the reason you gave for reverting my formating edit to the metalloid template: 'AGF. no squeezing of otsize'. Could you clarify what this means? Thank you. Sandbh (talk) 10:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It should read: AGF. no squeezing of fontsize. In general, there is no need to change or set a font-size. It introduces another style, which clutters the look of a page. More so because those sizes are different: 90%, 85%, etc. used on one page (infobox and navbox do that too). Sometines even reduced fontsize is used (not in this template) to solve a layout problem (trying to get more text in a certain space). In all those periodic table templates, I have tried to introduce a single style (sort of). So that the templates have the same look. -DePiep (talk) 13:40, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * OK I understand where you are coming from. The practice on Wikipedia seems to be to reduce the font size in the text accompanying images and pictures. I gather this is a common typographic presentation technique, as well. The same approach has been applied to the metalloid border template a bit further down. The original metalloid template also had one font size, as far as I can see. At the moment this is not the case with the metalloid template, which currently has two different font sizes. Could you reconsider your reversion decision please. Sandbh (talk) 12:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We are talking this edit in.
 * First, what is not our topic here is the left-aligning of the asterisk footnote, the idle colspans removed, and the one period removed. (Nor the content-thing that bothers me: why so much descriptive code in the box?).
 * Above I explained that mixing font-sizes is a route that only rarely should be taken. As you write, it is done in text "accompanying" an image -- but only sometimes. It is not standard MoS. I even have considered to remove the font-size from the two text blocks. And foremost of all, the element cells in the table have another two font-sizes, &lt;big> and &lt;small>. So that is three alternative settings in one template (four in total).
 * Apart from font-sizes, there is another style setting (row-)height. Now this is a similar problem in itself and in conjunction. Of course row-setting changes the layout, possibly disturbes it. The eye is very sensisitve to that. One senses a difference or irregularity, even though one cannot point out what it is. Changing (setting) row-height should have a clear reason. The "250%" in the title looked like if by accident: no regularity to be discovered. I have removed that one, because the browser can very well adjust row-height to an actual font-size, best without us interfering. Further on, the "height:10px;", which was only in the second text block (why-oh-why that?), happend to have no or minor effect at all (to me, dependent on my zoom-factor). So it is an idle styling, that suggests an improvement, but is not. Just compare this with the table in this template: while using different font-sizes, the spacing in the cell (in many ways) is nicely done by the browser without extra so-called improvements.
 * Other style settings, like margins, borders and padding, can be disturbing too but I have not looked into that wrt this template.
 * Together, reverting the whole edit would reintroduce, apart from the font-size you request, these other styles, all unwanted as I explained here. For inspiration, I think of this. That said, if you reintroduce the 90% size (necessary manually) I have no killing argument to oppose it. -DePiep (talk) 16:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * To be clear: if you redo, set, I will not revert. -DePiep (talk) 23:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * DePiep, thank you for your considered response. I'll look again at the template, MoS, and some other articles, and get back to you. Sandbh (talk) 09:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello DePiep. Your last edit to the metalloid template removed some text describing the path taken by the metal-nonmetal dividing line. This text was there in order to fully meet the MOS specs re accessibility for visually impaired people. There is some discussion about this by RexxS here. Accordingly, I will restore this text. Sandbh (talk) 10:39, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree on the accessability requirement, but I did not think current verbose was the right way to do it. The text descibes the whole table, and even more. I think the line-description should better be in an alt-text like structure, or in the main text. Adding accessability information is describing the Image, not redefine it in words. Note that "Image", and so this topic, usually means a file, not a table. -DePiep (talk) 12:47, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've carefully read your feedback about font sizing and broadly agree. Your comment about smaller text being used to accompany images only on a 'sometimes' basis is puzzling: smaller text size seems to be a standard Wikipedia practice hard wired into image templates, including those used in MOS. To improve the consistency of font sizing in the metalloid template I will extend the 90% sizing to include the footnote about the metalloid status of Al, Po and At. This will also help to more often keep the note on one line. Sandbh (talk) 11:57, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "sometimes" refers to its usage in periodic table templates in the first place. Font reducing is not always used in similar places, and even when it is, different numbers are used (90%, 85%, 83%, &lt;small>). My point is that it is not done consequently over these templates. Your note "... keep the note on one line" is irrelevant, since we should not use fontsetting to squeeze text. As you imply, it is not written in MOS (used in MOS it is), and that is what I wrote. Horribly, even highly usage templates use different fontsetting (eg navbox vs infobox). And, of course, you will have met my conclusion. -DePiep (talk) 12:47, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi DiPiep. I'm going to increase the bottom margin of the Periodic table (metalloid border) template, in order to improve consistency with the borders around other similar boxes. At the moment the main article text in the metalloid article crowds up against the bottom border of this template. Increasing the margin across the bottom border should address this and improve presentation. Sandbh (talk) 04:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Good plan, especially now that both left and bottom margins are set, equally, in a right-floating template. But maybe 1.4em is a bit much for border-lined templates (from the time when these templates had no border, all was in the white canvas?). sets them at 1em. -DePiep (talk) 07:44, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

30,000
Hey, congratulations! You're well on your way to having no life.


 * ** ONE OF US ** ONE OF US ** ONE OF US **

— kwami (talk) 23:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! -DePiep (talk) 23:04, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Superactinide
I've reverted your edits to superactinide. What you deleted was no duplicate, as you claimed it was, but was showing what the superactinides would be if the Pyykkö Model was correct. Please, look before you delete stuff like this! StringTheory11 03:07, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * OK. I was wrong. -DePiep (talk) 03:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:ELEM/PTQ
The PTQ was much easier to read before you changed it. Before, I could see the legend and the PTQ on the screen at once; now, I can't. As such, I have reverted your edits. StringTheory11 20:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Before, I could not read it, for starters. Please rethink that probably you are used to this template, but not that many other readers.
 * There was no overview at all. It did hint to the periodic table, but nothing more. "All in one screen" is not a good design principle, because users have multiple weird screen and browser settings. Only he basic stuff (wikitables, CSS style, class, HTML) serves all these user situations well. What I added too, was the general periodic table layout & format we use everywhere here on WP. At least, now the pattern is the same as in the other perioic tables we have (any reader will recognise that). Apart from that, the colors in that PTQ table are screaming the reader into deafness. -DePiep (talk) 20:56, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks great now, maybe you'd love to hear this. Keep it up--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:14, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Double Sharp refined some things. It is stable now. -DePiep (talk) 19:20, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Compare: before and after. I like it. -DePiep (talk) 19:31, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:Largest Israeli cities plus an ANI case
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

I notice you are in the middle of an edit war, and on the edge of 3RR and the inevitable block that will follow. It doesn't take a 4th revert in 24h to block, so I strongly suggest you refrain from reverting and try to just cover the dispute on the talk page for now. As you are 3 edits into 3RR, you have to consider this a final warning. Hopefully, you guys will just work it out without the need for a block. Thanks. Dennis Brown - 2&cent;    &copy;  22:42, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Corrected myself, you were not on the verge of a 3RR or even close so this was certainly my mistake. It is still a slow, simmering edit war, and I still suggest WP:DRN, as it is still a form of warring.  I have no doubt in your intentions or good faith, I'm simply stating that multiple reverts isn't the answer.  If you think there is a sock at play, WP:SPI is the answer.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;  14:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. But ... even the dripping is less than it looks: the edits by Jabobito48 were reversions of a sock puppet so do not count! And H8Gasma I did revert once! btw, the ARBPIA warning reduces it from 3RR to 1RR. -DePiep (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I will trust you in this and just say that the lack of admins jumping in to help shows it isn't easy to block on content related issues, even when the content is a bit to the side of behavior. I did block him last time for the behavior, but this time, his talk behavior wasn't the issue.  When there is a clear DRN or simple consensus on the page, then POV isn't even relevant if the edits are disruptive for being repeatedly added against consensus.  If there isn't a clear consensus, many admins loathe getting involved as it looks like you are taking sides in a content dispute.  It is probably obvious to you, but isn't as obvious unless one goes back and reads a couple hours of talk, diffs and user talk pages, which isn't always practical.  Truthfully, when an admin is blocking, what we want is clear, obvious and simple reasons, without having to explain it afterwards. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;  16:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * All right & crisp clear. I can only say I did not ask for a block at all (it looks "like "Block him!" is part of the question mark on that page). I asked to warn him according to WP:ARBPIA, by messaging  on their talkpage & logging that. That way, the 1RR rule --which is imposed on every I/P page-- gives an admin more power when 1RR is violated, but only after the warning. The SPI I noted was just for completeness, not my own request. Anyway, the user is gone now. -DePiep (talk) 17:05, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

SPI case
You mistakenly included "User:" when you filed Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/User:AndresHerutJaim. I have moved your case to Sockpuppet investigations/AndresHerutJaim, which was opened a few minutes later, and combined them into one. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 13:46, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I noticed, but did not dare to edit much more. First time SPI, learned. Thanks for cleaning up. -

WT:ELEM header
Is this any better? Double sharp (talk) 09:50, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I see not much diff. Go as you like. Yesterday I just flushed some ideas in the page, and described them to you, but they are not accepted. No problem, but I won't micro-puzzle with it any further. You can use any idea you like from my proposed version . -DePiep (talk) 10:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

POV
Hi DePiep. You recently made this change to the article Wars involving Israel, claiming that using blue instead of grey qualifies as POV-pushing. It is, however, normal to use color from flags or coats of arms in templates related to a specific country. For instance, see Template:Military ranks of Egypt, Template:Sierra Leone Civil War. Based on this, I don't think this constitutes POV-pushing. --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 12:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Elementbox
Hey, saw your last change. Got two suggestions. First, to color the title (the uppermost line) the same as others. Second, to push the line (oxygen-fluorine-neon, etc) above the table again. What do you think?--R8R Gtrs (talk) 16:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Could do the color thing. But hey, it is a title, not a subtitle. I mean: I wanted to stress the title a bit, make it stand out. But I'll give it a go, since the title is bold already.
 * Then, putting the left-x-right text above I do not like. First, there it covers the three uninvolved graphs too (crystal, shells, ZsubSymbol). Not a good visual support for the information. Below the directions are visually more related to the horizontals of the periodic table.
 * Now that you are here, I left out a separate subtitle bar (colored) with "Periodic table". Looked too massive. And not a fully correct subtitle for that table section. -DePiep (talk) 16:13, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Also we could add Periodic table in smaller print on top of that box. I would like that, since it gives a title (and a link) to it. -DePiep (talk) 16:37, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Got your point, thanks! Just one more. Think that the lower left corner is a little empty. Don't you think that the horizontal element names line should be centered per the whole white cell, not just the table? (See Template:Infobox technetium for an example)
 * Agree, it could be useful (more for the link purposes than for anything else, though)--R8R Gtrs (talk) 16:48, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually I tried a lot of stuff to get it this way. The reason is alike: the hor and vert neighbour directions (we are talking) better be close to the structure they are about (the hor and vert periodic table directions). As it is now, they bot are right next/below their action (the eye likes that). Having a vertical neighbour below the periodic table breaks that good suggestive (subtle/subliminal) association. -DePiep (talk) 16:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. You're good at explaining :) thanks--R8R Gtrs (talk) 17:20, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A very, very nice compliment. Thanks. -DePiep (talk) 01:00, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Extra Parameters in Elementbox?
Hi DePiep, following your addition of the history section to template:elementbox, I've been slowly adding the discovery details to the elements. You mentioned that I could contact you if I had the need to repeat the "Named by" heading more than a few times. It now seems like it will occur reasonably often so I was hoping you could add the parameters "Named by" and "Named date" to the infobox? - to appear in a single row before the comment row, as shown below: Prediction: Person (date) Discovery: Person (date) First Isolation: Person (date) Comment Label: Comment text Regards Nozzleberry (talk) 23:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Named by: Person (date)**

-DePiep (talk) 09:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * named by=
 * named date=

Hi again. I've realised an extra parameter would be handy in the history section - "Recognised as an element by" (person and date). I was thinking of having it underneath the "Discovery" heading. What do you think?Nozzleberry (talk) 23:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've actually raised this point on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements as I've reealisd it would be good to get some feedback before putting it in. So please don't proceed with my request until I've cleared it with the community. Thanks Nozzleberry (talk) 01:00, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Category:Hatnote templates for names
Category:Hatnote templates for names, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Paul_012 (talk) 09:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:Infobox element ‎
Something went wrong with the top line (name parameter) in all infoboxes. Cheers. Materialscientist (talk) 01:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please do not perform mass operations without discussing them first. Why do you uncapitalize Earth? Look in Earth-related articles, discuss this with the community first, please. Materialscientist (talk) 23:18, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "earth" not "Earth" is trivial I'd say. Where do I discuss this? -DePiep (talk) 23:20, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Anywhere. Earth is capitalized all across wikipedia, and many of those articles are FAs. As I recall, it is only uncapitalized when you mean "soil", but is always capitalized as a planet. Materialscientist (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Unbelievable. -DePiep (talk) 23:26, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * All right. So it is. Could you please mass-revert my AWB edits in this? Can do, but me no admin, so would be more troublesome. -DePiep (talk) 23:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They even write "the Earth", so we can write "the Venus"? "the Horror" I say. -DePiep (talk) 23:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've reverted edits that change caps, could you revise others like on helium? Thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 23:37, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Thanks, and I'll check my list. -DePiep (talk) 23:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Checked Category:Chemical elements on this, using AWB. Caught some other illegal "earth" writers, dammit. There also seems to be some "rare earth" stuff, I did not alter (I'd like to know more about this "rare earth", especially the uncapitalised version). This "the Earth" thing is interesting. -DePiep (talk) 00:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Element articles are heavily watched, thus to avoid cluttering watchlists I usually don't correct one thing at a time everywhere, but read and apply several fixes (every article has lots of minor issues), but that's me. Materialscientist (talk) 00:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is the MOS on this: Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters. Afterwards, I could say that we are not talking astronomics in these, so bit of my intuition was right. I won't challenge though. -DePiep (talk) 00:32, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

So what now?
You insist on "BRD", but then you are too busy to actually join the discussion? You can't be bothered to actually read the arguments and "will do so later", but the pages must stay in your preferred version in the meantime? You are too damned lazy to at least cleanly revert your version back in without blanket-reverting unrelated constructive edits, and you expect me to just patiently sit and wait until you can finally be bothered to respond? Man, some kind of behaviour there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:01, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry to have disappointed you in this. All I can say is that I want to reply seriously, so I'll have to save serious time for that. In general, taking some days to resolve such a thing is not unusual. -DePiep (talk) 08:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you might read this: do not ever force an editor into a React-Now threat. I'll revert you for this anytime anywhere. At least. -DePiep (talk) 00:09, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Apologies
I apologize for not linking to the DRN discussion from the get-go. It was an oversight that I tried to rectify as soon as I realized that nobody had actually done that yet. Again, my sincere apologies for dropping the ball on that. VanIsaacWScontribs 22:45, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Appreciated. I assume that you read my notes on this. For now, no cmts. -DePiep (talk) 00:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Music template
*laugh* Well, I did point out that I was worried more about third parties who might come along after the fact than I was about whether you understood my request or not. But I'll stop anyway (*grin*). Yeah, the sheer number of articles that would be affected by the change is obviously why we need to be careful to find the right solution here — although I did also catch a couple of individual musicians who had one of the templates applied to them unnecessarily. Anyway, I'll let you get on with it. Bearcat (talk) 23:29, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw you edited out of three articles. All right. (So my check number went from 269 to 266! -- is the pulse where I have my finger on). But if you edit the template(s) involved, you lose me. -DePiep (talk) 23:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

And you moved it without discussion because? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:27, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Obviousness. -DePiep (talk) 08:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Braille-cell template
Hey,

Could you take a look at Braille cell? The coding is horribly inefficient, and with all the duplicated input tables, very difficult to update or maintain.

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 21:34, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hm, the sizing doesn't seem to work w Unicode output. I've tried following the doc, but neither of the options makes any difference. — kwami (talk) 05:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Index to isotope pages
Can you change the template so that the periodic table of links to the isotope pages is open when the template loads. After being redirected from the deleted page it took me about 1.5 minutes to find and open the link table. Also how about making the default load so that the "Periodic table templates and files" section is closed. Unless you think that most people coming to the template page are looking for that information. I can only speak for myself, but I loved using the "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_to_isotope_pages" as a link to the isotope pages. I feel like I used that over half the time. Of course I and most other people also arrive at an elements isotope page from the link in the isotope section of the main article for that chemical element. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium" the section "Isotopes and nucleosynthesis" and also the small table to the right "Most stable isotopes" When people are only looking up nuclear data for several different elements that periodic table in the "Index to Isotope Pages" was useful. It is still there in the template file, but harder to find. Thank you, Darian Jenkins — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.32.175.76 (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Can you change the template so that the periodic table of links to the isotope pages is open when the template loads.
 * Re:
 * - I did. Actually, I spend some time to get it folded, because I thought every WP:ELEMENT follower would know about hide/show. I could tell more about this, but further on this unsigned IP does not seem really interested.
 * After being redirected from the deleted page it took me about 1.5 minutes to find and open the link table.
 * - The page was not deleted. You were redirected. 1.5 minutes to find the "show/hide" button is much, especially since you claim you are using WP regularly. Anyway, this is Wikipedia. Things change. Oh and that index really is a template, not an article. Do not expect such things in main (article) space ever. The index as it was there, any one half editor could have had it deleted by AfD in a week for such good reason.
 * Also how about making the default load so that the "Periodic table templates and files" section is closed.
 * - Why? It is on the bottom half of the page. Why would you go there? You only seem to want one pictural page. What is wrong with, below there, an overview of other periodic table templates? How does it bother you?
 * - "Unless you think that ..." - oh shut up, "I can only speak for myself" -- keep doing so then. Now I predict a "but" from here.
 * - "but I ..." - see.
 * I loved using the "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_to_isotope_pages" as a link to the isotope pages.
 * - It still works. And it is not a link. It is an INDEX, having links. And again: your very first link you gave here worked.
 * Of course I and most other people [speak for yorself] also arrive at an elements isotope page from the link in the isotope section of the main article for that chemical element. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium" the section "Isotopes and nucleosynthesis" and also the small table to the right "Most stable isotopes" When people [speak for yorself] are only looking up nuclear data for several different elements that periodic table in the "Index to Isotope Pages" was useful. It is still there in the template file, but harder to find.
 * -Better don't tell me where to find isotopes pages. Only a week ago I found this index, hidden & not linked anywhere. At last now it is in the overviews.
 * Thank you [what for then?], Darian Jenkins [by IP]
 * Darian, if you are such an ardent WP user, albeit only for this one single page in one single expected/accepted view, why do you sign by IP (not even that)? And why do you "thank you" me? -DePiep (talk) 00:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, again (humorous)
I hope my contributions to the braille cell template discussion are comprehensible. I just realized that I am violating the rule about drunk editing of WP, so I may be a little less coherent than normal. VanIsaacWScontribs 12:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * :-). Is there a rule?! (a WP:wisdom I could understand). -DePiep (talk) 12:48, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:EUI VanIsaacWScontribs 13:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Removing RC link
I fail to see why the RC link is "nonsensical". It links to changes that affect the project. StringTheory11 23:59, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the whole WP:ELEM project is stuffed with everything-is-important-so-we-link-everything-everywhere-anyplace. You would like this: Everything all in wikipedia on one big page solves everything. Why use two pages for wikipedia? You'd fail to see the problem -- even without looking, I'd guess. -DePiep (talk) 00:08, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * For your track record of posting sarcastic remarks on my talk page, I have banned you from my talk page. StringTheory11 00:28, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean this? First time you meet an opposing breeze? -DePiep (talk) 00:32, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Music template
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by asking me if I'm a bot. I simply haven't actually been online here very much this week, having been busy with other things — and after my initial post I can't really think of anything new that I could really have contributed to the discussion besides paying attention to your progress. But do allow me to thank you for the assistance. Bearcat (talk) 04:15, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

template request
Could you check out template:Charmap and see if you can see if there's a simple reason the line that starts {{#if: {{numcr2namecr|{{{1|0}}}}}... doesn't output a row of the table, even though in my user space, the exact same code properly renders a table line. Otherwise, I'm posting my second help request in as many days to WikiProject templates. VanIsaac{{sub| WS }}contribs 07:33, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Strip whitespace added to {{tlx|numcr2namecr}}. Your user test did not input whitespace, so it worked. But the example on the /doc page did use whitespace (param 1), and so failed to recognise the number. -DePiep (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Thank you so much for taking a gander. We've been fighting that stupid thing for a couple days now. VanIsaac{{sub| WS }}contribs 21:39, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * When unnamed params are used, the input value is not trimmen (whitespace stays). Not so when named param is used. In earlier uses of the namedcr2-template there were always named params, so it showed OK. The template uses calculations, which are also sensitive to whitespace input. -DePiep (talk) 23:54, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Start Moved


 * Thanks! (Did you see who made that template that had to be changed ...;-) ) -DePiep (talk) 23:54, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but I bet (s)he's the president of the Handsome Club. :þ VanIsaac{{sub| WS }}contribs 00:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Template:Compact extended periodic table
I changed some of the shading at Compact extended periodic table and then noticed your edit summary. You said you made the shade lighter for predicted properties. However, the table itself says a lighter shade for "predicted [element]", and that's what I changed it to. Predicted properties is a good idea, but our charts are shaded per whether an element has been discovered or not. (Unless things have changed?) — kwami (talk) 20:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * My es linked to WP:ELEM, wich is where it was discussed. The outcome was as I edited: chemical properties. This I do not understand: However, the table itself says a lighter shade for "predicted [element]". The "table itself"? Anyway, these are bg colors for chemical properties, as the legend says. The bg color says "alkali metal", or "alkali metal (predicted)". That is what a legend does. It being an alkali metal is the prediction, and so for all others. There is no reference in this template on elements being discovered or not. I will revert, bc it was based on that talk. -DePiep (talk) 23:03, 2 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, I see how you would understand that if you read the table closely enough. A quick look, however, would suggest these are predicted elements.
 * Scandium and yttrium should be lanthanides, if we're going by chemical properties. And shouldn't (X-)actinides be merged with them as well? They aren't really a chemical group. — kwami (talk) 00:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * re scandium and yttrium: I cannot say anything about that. If there is a stable outcome, others at WP:ELEM talk will know. Some other elements are still in discussion likewise. I usually only check the outcome. Just keeping all these periodic tables synbchronised. -DePiep (talk) 00:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Rare earths include Sc and Y. Lanthanides don't. Double sharp (talk) 06:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, actually, they do, at least in some classifications. Though since these are supposed to be chemical groups, not e-shells, 'rare earth' is the better term: is that ever used inclusive of actinides? — kwami (talk) 08:27, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen "radioactive rare earths" used for the actinides, though not in a very reliable source. Wikipedia states that "rare earths" doesn't include the actinides, anyway. But lanthanides still seems to be the more common term, at least within the context of chemistry. Double sharp (talk) 12:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Don't take them for bad
Hey DePiep... Just wanted to tell you the guys aren't that bad. They also think (seem to) be in favor of nice-looking things, but when it goes on the outside. In the inner zone... well, science men are so... their workplace may be trashed... but it's for the best for them as they know where's everything. They probably could organize into something like lettered archive... but it's easier for them to be trashed. You've said it right, they're used with it. It probably isn't the real best way, doesn't show the best of organization. But it's the way they like, they don't care. You are offering an innovation of which they don't see a point. Even if the idealized organization contains it. This is a workplace, and not a showcase anyway. (I'm holding a neutral point... I simply don't care about looks... It's not the point. It don't mean the thing should go trashed... I'm simply fine either way) Think both you and the others could be slightly more polite to the other side... To try at very least to look intellectually above the opponent. It's simply a piece of opinion. Let's just not discuss it...I only want your catfights to stop.

If you're feeling bad about it all... I will help you with an article if you want to write one. Just contact me. (Dunno what more I got to offer)

(A closer-to-your-specialization thing: Think that labelless atom images, if ever made, should also be sized properly (see lighter elements infoboxes, make too much free space). What do you think?)--R8R Gtrs (talk) 21:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for spending this time & thoughts & care & writings on this. I'll read this more closely later on. -DePiep (talk) 21:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * A funny and to the point description. Typically many of those at WP:ELEM show this behaviour! (I can make a mess too). Isn't it great then that the scientists, in their workplace organised this way, found the Higgins particle? There should be a Nobel for that too. I'll show more patience for them. -DePiep (talk) 09:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Re About these atom images. You mean: let's do File:Electron shell 006 Carbon - no label.svg, example in Template:Infobox carbon/sandbox. This no-label set is not complete yet. I've asked Niknaks to first make the eight higher ones (Z=118+) old style to get that series complete. To keep the fun in, I said there is no hurry. (Then Niknaks left, for a holiday maybe ;-) ). Afterwards we can make another complete series with the label removed (systematic, different filename).
 * Happy to hear that :)
 * Yeah. Exactly. I know it's not complete... Just don't want the size feature to be missing during new series creation--R8R Gtrs (talk) 23:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Isotopes index
I deleted it because it was a good example of R2. Mainspace titles should never redirect to userspace titles. Meanwhile, as I told Martin, I believed the mainspace title to be a good candidate for an article at some point, so I left the links in place per the first sentence of WP:REDDEAL. Your idea of taking care of them would have been at variance with the guideline, and because the page is now back at the original title, your idea would have meant either that my edits would need reversion or that the page would be orphaned. Nyttend (talk) 22:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * So...why are you unhappy with me because of my decision to delete the redirect per R2? I am completely uninvolved in the situation of the page itself and thus have no opinion of which namespace it should occupy; I only became involved because someone correctly tagged the mainspace-to-userspace redirect for R2 and I found it while going through CAT:CSD.  The place for the page to occupy is a decision in which I will not participate; I was aware that the page had been moved around, so I deleted because it was plainly not vandalism and because the then-current state of the page warranted R2.  I finally must ask — given the fact that the page has been returned to mainspace, and given the consequent lack of redlink status for the mainspace title, why does any of this matter?  Nyttend (talk) 01:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * My apology — I thought you were an admin, and that's why I wasn't explaining more, since I figured you had looked at the deleted revisions. Here's everything for the two deleted revisions in the history of Index to isotope pages:


 * (del/undel) (diff) 03:00, 2 August 2012 . . Matthewrbowker (talk | contribs | block) (108 bytes) (Requesting speedy deletion (CSD R2). (TW))
 * (del/undel) (diff) 20:13, 1 August 2012 . . Martijn Hoekstra (talk | contribs | block) (91 bytes) (Martijn Hoekstra moved page Index to isotope pages to User:Martijn Hoekstra/Index to isotope pages holding pen for double redirects: holding on to it for a bit to let the bot clear the redirects)

There are no deleted revisions in the history of User:Martijn Hoekstra/Index to isotope pages holding pen for double redirects or anywhere else. HOWEVER Please don't file an ANI or do anything else here yet, until I tell you that I'm done. The page history has gotten rather convoluted, and I need to delete and undelete pages to perform a history merge or merges; any links you give will become meaningless. I'll do this quickly and give you a fuller response as soon as I'm done. Nyttend (talk) 15:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Never mind; please go ahead with your filing. I misunderstood the situation, and now I realise that no history merges are needed.  If I understand rightly, you moved the page from Article to Template, Martin moved Article to User (yes, he moved the redirect page!  I'm not sure about the point of that), Matthewrbowker tagged Article for R2 speedy deletion, I deleted it, Double Sharp moved Template to Article, and finally AvicBot changed the double redirect at User from Template to Article.  Finally, I'm slightly confused: you say that I don't see reason to revert my action.  I dimly remember saying that, but I can't find where I said it, and now because of the current location of the page, there's really no way to revert, because the reversion has already been performed.  Can you please point me to the diff for the "see no reason" comment?  Nyttend (talk) 15:55, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The only R3 attempt was the one you already linked: after you moved the page from Article to Template, an IP tagged Article for R3, but before any admins could come along to delete it or to restore it, Martin came along and moved Article to User and removed the speedy. Nyttend (talk) 15:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think you're wrong in one spot: Martin never moved the content anywhere. Looks to me as if he only moved the redirect from one place to another.  But yes, definitely begin with the RM.  Nyttend (talk) 16:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you press me to respond: I disagree with your proposed move. Yes, it's not exactly a normal article, but it's no farther from being a normal article than are Gallery of sovereign-state flags or Periodic table (large version); you'll note that the latter page is actually featured, so having this type of page in mainspace has been well reviewed.  Perhaps you could move it to "List of isotopes by element"?  After all, a template is created so that you can insert the same code into lots of pages, but this page really isn't suited to being dropped into lots of pages.  Also: Martin's edits didn't cause me to do anything to these pages; the only edits I made as a result of his message were all notes on his talk page explaining why I wasn't going to do anything.  Nyttend (talk) 16:48, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "Press" wasn't meant to sound hostile; I'm sorry. Nyttend (talk) 16:58, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

All fine today. Dust settled. -DePiep (talk) 20:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

question on cat
Hey,

So, what triggers Category:Language articles with unsupported infobox fields‎? Is it still being generated, that we should list it in the infobox doc? — kwami (talk) 18:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

(We could really use a tracking category for duplicate and unsupported fields. I have no idea how to do that. — kwami (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC))
 * Deletion will be fine. -DePiep (talk) 22:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The code is in the bottom of the infobox. The construction is: {{code|1= {{#if:{{{param1|}}}{{param2|}}}| value when any input | value when no input at all }} }}. In this case: the returned value is the category adding, the 2nd return value (when not input at all) is empty. You can add another param to the list easily I'd say. Absolutely take care of the | pipe after the param-name (otherwise the if-logic acts different). Eg. Armeniamn is added to the cat because it has param protoname= used. Adding to the documentation? Can do, but it is more a sweeping template category, to be deleted or changed when the check is done. -DePiep (talk) 09:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

ANI on ANI
DePiep, To save you the trouble of reverting:
 * Yes, Robbie is being foolish (and others, evidently).
 * No, nobody is going to block Nytend.
 * 1) Demanding 6 month blocks has pretty much guaranteed no one is going to take your complaint seriously. There was a way to have brought the subject up again, but you kind of spoiled that.  I guarantee no one is going to act on it now. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:50, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You have a good understanding. 6 month block Nyttend was (a nonsense) to get attention. My primary question at ANI was more seriois. Problem is it was archived before closing. -DePiep (talk) 01:02, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I would appreciate an explanation of why you continue to believe that I have done anything wrong here. I did my best to be patient with you, and all I get is a fake attempt to get someone to block me.  Nyttend (talk) 02:02, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It was a joke. Next time I should say 12 months to make it clear... Sorry Nyttend. -DePiep (talk) 03:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Your "never mind" comment at Penguin's Talk page has to be one of the best understatements of the year. Thanks for giving me a laugh.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Floq's talk
Forgive my intrusion, but what was the meaning of this edit changing the archive settings on User talk:Floquenbeam? Daniel (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * "95% retired" and still this. Do you know him? -DePiep (talk) 23:11, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't really know him at all, was more just wondering why you were altering someone's archiving settings on their user talk page. Stood out as a very odd edit. Daniel (talk) 23:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * So. Then. How did he end up on my watchlist? An admin who did not act when it was about something, and then only afterwards comes pushing me aroud. That is how F. is on my watchlist. And then retiring is lame. Lame. Now what are you defending? More lame than F. is such an admins "friend". Lame2-DePiep (talk) 23:46, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Daniel is an admin, and so is F. that says enough. Any admin will always cover an admin. Ordinary editors loose. Forget arguments. -DePiep (talk) 23:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Reverting Bishonen was not OK (no diff?). I have blocked you for six hours, because I am covering for my admin buddy Floquenbeam (self confirmed arrogance) it is not any of your business whether Floquenbeam chooses to reply, ignore, or auto-archive your posts while he or she is on vacation (neither yours, no reason to intervene). See WP:GAB if you wish to appeal. NWTalk 00:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC) - my re, -DePiep (talk) 00:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * NW's jest was in his blocking mode, so not a jest at all (a preconceived attitude it was). NW was prejudiced beforehand. The diff, not provided by NW (does say something innit) was minor. Of course, an admin "joking" he is saving an admin (while actually saving an admin) is in low behaviour. -DePiep (talk) 01:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm stepping away from the computer now, but DePiep, I would strongly, strongly suggest that you restore where I un-merged your comments from NW's, which you've undone. I wasn't joking when I said you're not allowed to refactor other people's comments, and persisting in doing this is probably going to get your talk page access revoked for the rest of your block by the next admin who notices you doing it. As a side note, I did not "reblock" you for anything. I declined your unblock request, which is an entirely different action. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 01:18, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a good rest. The main contradiction stands. -DePiep (talk) 01:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Really, Fluffer, you are only covering a bad admin's ass. You even had to find the diff for NW, NW being too lousy to do it right. And now you have to cover the black hole NW created. I hope NW is gratefull (a job at wm?) -- I would not wait for it. First you write:"you appear to have been disrupting someone else's talk page to make some sort of point that escapes me", and now you disrupt my own talkpage, and threaten me to 'strongly, strongly' dive. Fluffer, that is a threat, and an non-wiki one. Please withdraw explicitly. -DePiep (talk) 04:14, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't joking when - oh please go somewhere else. this is the Joke page. You even pionted me to the "jest" by NW. And now you withdraw? Nope. Jokes only. From you, I cannot expect anything else. -DePiep (talk) 05:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You haven't addressed the reason for the block Didn't I, really? NW didn't in their first primitive jerk (not jest). I am not an admin, so every typo will be used against me. -DePiep (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not holding any typo against you myself. I am concerned that an editor that has been here for an incredible amount of time suddenly thinks it is ok to refactor comments and change archive settings for someone else.  I wouldn't have used the same summary in a block (I'm not known for humor here, only in the real world) but you seem to be going out of your way to be even more disruptive now.  It was a short block, 6 hours, and you haven't shown any understanding that you can't refactor or tweak archive settings, which itself is telling.  I've seldom crossed paths with you, but it has never been a negative experience until now.  Your actions here, however, are a little on the bizarre side for someone with your experience.  Surely you know better.  You haven't convinced me, even a little, that you won't be disruptive, so I didn't have a choice but to decline.  Again step away for a while and try again tomorrow.  The block will be expired and you just need to move forward.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 01:29, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seldom crossed paths with you, but it has never been a negative experience until now. - what is this? Getting personal? What were these earlier experinces? Why so vague? -DePiep (talk) 05:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * All in all, NW made a primitive move, badly, and now all you admins have to come by to support NW. Any means. How or where to criticize NW anyway? (yeah don't tell me about The Office. That is a comical thing). Please tell me: where do admins get & reply to criticism? Has NW ever had a touch? -DePiep (talk) 01:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I criticize admins regularly, on their talk page or at ANI, or wherever I find the need. Just above I said I didn't care for the edit summary in the block, for that matter.  Not all admins are thrilled with me being this direct, but it doesn't stop me when I think they have made a mistake.  I chose to do it in a constructive manner rather than an insulting matter, but that is just my way.  The problem here is that you are proving him right about you being disruptive right now.  If you would have disagreed with the block, but simply expressed an understanding that you can't refactor and tweak other's archive settings (which was a bit WP:POINTy), you would have been unblocked, but you chose to climb on a soapbox instead.  That is fine, I'm quite tolerant of it actually, but I'm not inclined to unblock someone while they are venting.  It doesn't bother me in the least if you want to spend the next 6 hours blaming others, but that isn't going to get you unblocked. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 01:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Note to myself: ask DB about I criticize admins regularly, on their talk page or at ANI, or wherever I find the need. -DePiep (talk) 05:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * re Dennis Brown. ... to refactor comments and change archive settings for someone else. How is that an blockable offence, and then ínstantly? Even worse: what is the diff for that refactor[ing of] comments? Diff? When? Only afterwards(!) I threw out Fluff here from my Talk and the reason in my es still stands. Comes Fluff crying here... Now why did you not see the personal, emotional, jerking (not joking) behaviour by blocker NW? And all you admins still keep pointing at me? If I had criticized editors, not admins, I would have gone free. -DePiep (talk) 01:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

For the record:
 * 00:11, 19 August 2012 NuclearWarfare blocked DePiep with an expiry time of 6 hours (Disruptive editing: (or as might otherwise be called, "an admin covering another admin"))
 * I point out that this is User:NuclearWarfare's personal, chosen edit summary.


 * 1st unblock request review: (neg) by User:Fluffernutter
 * Fluffernutter comes back and tells me not change my own user:talkpage (read that again). But earlier Fluffer wrote this: At any rate, you appear to have been disrupting someone else's talk page to make some sort of point that escapes me.
 * My question is: Fluffer, what is wrong with me doing my own talkpage? Was not that your reason to keep the block up when it was about onther persons talkpage? You are an admin that lies to the mirror. Only your position (not your mind or backbone) allows you to get away with this.


 * 2nd request: (neg), by User:Dennis Brown.
 * Guess what: again . Now DB says: If you would have disagreed with the block, but simply expressed an understanding that you can't refactor and tweak other's archive settings (which was a bit WP:POINTy), you would have been unblocked (sure). There is always another admin to cover an admin. Because, DB, why did not NW think so in the first place? Why did Fluffer talk totally different? Just because I am dependent on an admins view. But never, never, never will that admin corrct a fellow admin. DB, you were only searching for an explanation afterwards.

None of your admins did the right thing in the first place. None. Not User:NuclearWarfare, not User:Fluffernutter, not User:Dennis Brown. Oh yeah, afterwards you know the right explanation (coincidentally saving admin A/B/C, but that is just a coincidence really). The Admin must be saved, whatever the stupidity. Now link me, you braves, where is NW being spanked? -DePiep (talk) 02:55, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

List:

Element color/id2color
Hi, did you mean to create this page (Element color/id2color)? There's nothing on it... --Mr. Vernon (talk) 04:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Templates nominated for deletion
Hi DePiep. I've nominated the templates you have edited like Template:ArticlePair for deletion here on the grounds that these links can be given in better ways than a hatnote. I've also created Template:Ballet premieres for the purpose of linking these ballet articles. SFB 19:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

NRG
Hi there,

I think you may have made a mistake in this edit. Ma'ariv is one of Israel's largest mainstream dailies, and is used on many Wikipedia articles. I searched the RSN archives for a thread that concluded it's unreliable, and could not find any.

If this is a mistake, can you perhaps self-revert? If it isn't a mistake, can you perhaps clarify why?

Thanks. -- Activism  1234  20:39, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have reverted. I maintain that it is not reliable. We are doing an an encyclopedia, remember. Now where is the translation? -DePiep (talk) 20:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
(moved to top of page)-DePiep (talk) 16:22, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * :-) Thanks. Now you can ask me to draw an atlas and I'd do it. -DePiep (talk) 16:20, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)
Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page. In this issue: Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->
 * Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
 * Research: The most recent DR data
 * Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
 * Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
 * DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
 * Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
 * Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 18:58, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

1RR
Hello you broke 1RR on Death of Asher and Yonatan Palmer all articles in ARBPIA area is under WP:1RR.You should discuss changes in talk instead doing reverts.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 20:50, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 20:55, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Hillsborough
I don't think the new article nor the new category are useful. The first should redirect to the disaster article, the second likely should not exist. What will you fill it with? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I am bizzy. Actualy, I am surprised that the HIP report did not even have a page. Whatdo you think? -DePiep (talk) 20:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that if & when the HIP section in hte HD article is too long, it should be shelled out into a new NIP article. Until then, it should remain within the HD article. Everyone else who has weighed in on the discussion appears to feel the same. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:40, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

3RR
For what it's worth, you have technically broken 3RR with this edit. Since I realised that you genuinely do not accept the rationale that we should help the reader, I have ceased reverting, however terrible I think your rationale is, and explained in further detail. I strongly recommend that you self revert that edit, and do likewise. —WFC— FL wishlist 21:11, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Challenge. I only did three edits on that page. How could that be 3 reverts? -DePiep (talk) 21:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I could explain if you'd like (four changes to the status quo on the same issue over two articles), but as I said, it was technical. I would never call for someone to be blocked over that, but just wanted to make sure you were aware that you were close to it. I'm sorry if the way I have dealt with this seems a bit heavy-handed, but having spent two days trying (and very nearly failing) to convince folks at WP:ITNC that we should post Hillsborough, I'm running on a bit of a short fuse. In the long term, I do think there should be an article on the Independent Panel, as I noted in my original edit summary. But this is not a usual stub situation, because there is already a well-developed summary of the panel's work within the Hillsborough article. Therefore, while the panel should have their own article one day, it shouldn't be created until there is enough content to significantly expand upon what could reasonably be included at the disaster article. In the meantime the best way to inform the reader is to send them to that section. I am certainly not contesting the panel's notability. Hope that helps. —WFC— FL wishlist 21:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Then why don't you undo ? I cannot. -DePiep (talk) 22:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have reported your continual edit warring at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. —WFC— FL wishlist 22:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Removing Speedy at Hillsborough Independent Panel
Hi DePiep, you recently removed a deletion tag from Hillsborough Independent Panel. Because Wikipedia policy does not allow the creator of the page to remove speedy deletion tags, an automated program has replaced the tag. Although the deletion proposal may be incorrect, removing the tag is not the correct way for you to contest the deletion, even if you are more experienced than the nominator. Instead, please use the talk page to explain why the page should not be deleted. Remember to be patient, there is no harm in waiting for another experienced user to review the deletion and judge what the right course of action is. As you are involved, and therefore potentially biased, you should refrain from doing this yourself. Thank you, - SDPatrolBot (talk) 21:11, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, I forgot that rule. I am sorry. I thought I was talking (with the poster). One can see I entered the page Talkepage first & seriously. -DePiep (talk) 21:14, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Two admins have turned that into a redirect, and you have reverted both of them. Is there something I'm missing here? Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 22:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ic now...will reply there. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 22:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you missed the Talk (as I just noted on your Talkpage). Also, the fact that an "admin" reverted, is not relevant. -DePiep (talk) 22:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is relevant when an admin reverts out a CSD tag, that is different. They are refusing to delete it via CSD. Their other option would have been to delete it.  Nuance perhaps, but removing the CSD tag, while not technically an "admin tool" thing, still means an admin looked at it and took action on it.  Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 22:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No. How could I see it was an admin? Why not arguments? Now that is two posts here: one cannot count to three (an admin you say?), and one who wants me to know things that I cannot see. Quality time! -DePiep (talk) 22:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You have been here entirely too long to play that card DePiep. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;    &copy;   Join WER 23:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I should know all admins? And then withdraw for their very name, just and only because someone is an admin? No. More probably you are here not long enough. And I must say, I do not like you personalisation of this talk at all. -DePiep (talk) 00:04, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

New message!
Greetings, you have a new message in my talk page! --Tito Dutta ✉ 02:35, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Greetings, you have a new message here: User_talk:Titodutta --Tito Dutta (talk) 00:59, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

NavPeriodicTable not aligned properly
NavPeriodicTable is not aligned properly for some reason on IE9 (1152 × 864) when the table is extended (e.g. Superactinide). Could you fix it? I think I broke it accidentally in this edit (where I added elements 174 to 218). Double sharp (talk) 05:44, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. Not devastating, but I'll fix it indeed. -DePiep (talk) 09:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The edit you mention did change the "asterisks", but before that I saw the same sort of shift. -DePiep (talk) 09:46, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Double sharp (talk) 13:41, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Mixed blood logo.png)
Thanks for uploading File:Mixed blood logo.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:09, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The logo is okay in infobox, I think this edit is creating trouble here! --Tito Dutta (talk) 04:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Good catch, TD. I have reverted the bad edits and notified User Talk:jaMikaPA. -DePiep (talk) 08:59, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Some drawings for Uus
Hi. Can you help with what R8R Gtrs asked me at User talk:Double sharp? (I'm asking you because I think you can do it much better than I can.) Double sharp (talk) 03:09, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk page EN
Greetings, Thanks for you comments on my signature and as I have informed you I have changed my signature already. I have just created an edit notice for my talk page. Can you please tell me if it going be misleading/confusing (specially for new users)? --Tito Dutta (talk) 17:05, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Greetings, I have deleted that footnote. Also I have 1) removed one point "Be uncivil" (opposite civil) 2) decreased font size so that one does not need to scroll a lot to get the edit box. --Tito Dutta (talk) 13:52, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Socratic Barnstar
Thanks, moved to top of this page. Great: Socrates! Socratic reasoning & talking! -

Help
Hey DePiep,

I've noticed you're good with coding and computers. Can you take a look at the section of my userpage here, which contains my userboxes, and see if you can figure out why there's random spacing between certain lines or userboxes, as opposed to just being straight rows? Do you know how to solve this?

Alternatively, is there another place I can ask this question?

Thanks! -- Jethro  B  00:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You have them set up as a table, so the spacing between consecutive lines is determined by the height of the tallest box in that row: Note how the top of each box in a row is exactly in line. The white space is just the invisible bounding box of each table cell. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 01:32, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed the table formatting, but the same issue is here (NOTE: I'm supplying the diff to what it looks like but reverting this edition). I think it may have something to do with my userpage general template, but I'm not sure, and don't know how to check/fix. -- Jethro  B  01:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, now it's the line height. The way you can do this is to make a table four columns wide and one row tall, and then put in four lists of your infoboxes, with a &lt;br&gt; in between; that way, it's only the infobox above it that will dictate the line/cell height. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 02:04, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, it's much better now! -- Jethro  B  02:48, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wunderbar! Glad I could be of help. &lt;/jaguar&gt; VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 03:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Signature
Hello DePiep! Please check here. Thanks···V ani s che nu「m/Talk」 20:49, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I have also invited BgWhite to the discussion.···V ani s che nu「m/Talk」 20:54, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Test of the first one. This is a Test. Test of the first one. This is a Test. Test of the first one. This is a Test<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#ED791A 0em 0em 0.4em,#F55220 -0.4em -0.4em 0.5em,#1D6B00 0.3em 0.4em 0.4em;color:#000000">Tito Dutta ✉ Test of the first one. This is a Test. Test of the first one. This is a Test.

Do you see a slight increase in spacing in the first one as Bgwhite told? (To me it is there (illusion))<font style="text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.3em 0.2em">···V ani s che nu「m/Talk」 20:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * See TD talk page. -DePiep (talk) 22:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * New message's for you at Tito's talk page.<font style="text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.3em 0.2em">···V ani s che nu「m/Talk」 22:36, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all. Might meet at TD's talkpage. No more takting here. -DePiep (talk) 22:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Your graph on Uus
Could you do a similar one for me on Uut, taking the Tl and 113 columns instead? It should look like the other one on Uus. Thanks in advance. Double sharp (talk) 12:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Will do. Any extras to make it more sayfull? (colors, grouping, ...) -DePiep (talk) 10:47, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * They probably won't be necessary. Double sharp (talk) 13:01, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Uus graph once again
The current version has a huge mistake I failed to notice any earlier. The energy in the original work is given in au, which corresponds to a unit called "hartree," which in return is equal to 27.211 eV. We need to have it corrected. The easy way out would be simply saying it is in hartrees, but I'd love you to draw new lines to get an electronvolt picture. Say, with two eV being a difference detween the neighboring lines. I'd love simply because it is a more common unit. And we have it in the text. Can this be done?--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:23, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes we can. File:Valence nsnp atomic energy levels for group 13 and 17 atoms.svg. So, the vertical scale changes into different units (while the element value relative positions are the same). Like miles and kilometers. Now what is the ratio? And what is the exact vertical text (now: Atomic energy (eV))? -DePiep (talk) 20:22, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I can use hartree. Still, please be specific. -DePiep (talk) 20:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the energy levels should stay where they are, and the lines should move. Just like kilometers and miles, yes. The ratio's 1 hartree = 27.211 electronvolts. The current vertical text can probably be simplified: "Energy (eV)". The word "atomic" seems somewhat redundant to me. I don't want hartrees only because this unit is less common.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 20:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * All fine, but if the unit is hartree, we should say so: "hartree (symbol: Eh or Ha)" (source: WP). Now who of us is the scientist ;-) ? -DePiep (talk) 20:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't understand this one. If the source says, "15.1 miles away," we are fine to say, "24.3 kilometers away" instead. The two mean exactly the same. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."--R8R Gtrs (talk) 20:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * If the vertical scale numbers are changed from "-1" into "-27.211", the vertical text cannot be Energy (eV). It should be like Energy (Eh). (of course, I'll change the notches to be rounded Eh numbers). When we write Eh units and numbers, the text must be "Eh". -DePiep (talk) 21:08, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We have the Eh numbers right now (mislabeled). We can therefore either label it Eh (an easy, but not the best way out, given the unit isn't used often) or we (you) can change the values to actual eV values. But since the scale -2.721...-5.422...8.163 would seem a little weird, I ask you to draw the lines those would correspond to -2...-4...-6, etc. (or -2.5...-5...-7.5, it's not the point).--R8R Gtrs (talk) 21:20, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

First (please read this carefully): which unit do you want, and how is it identified? -DePiep (talk) 21:32, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * electronvolt eV
 * hartree Ha
 * hartree Ha
 * Electronvolts, I want them in the end.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 21:42, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. So the unit is, and text will say "eV".
 * Then the numbers are wrong? "-1" should be "-27.211"? (Again, I will rearrange them, but let's get the fact right)

-DePiep (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 21:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Will do. Eh, WP is not exploding when I postpone this a day, is it? Or else please warn Florida. -DePiep (talk) 22:01, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure. I don't think anyone has even noticed the problem (at least, none has complained). Thanks for your help.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 22:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I notified Double sharp. Here above, he asked a similar graphic for Tl and 113. -DePiep (talk) 22:22, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer the Tl/113 one to be consistent with the At/117 one. Double sharp (talk) 02:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. -09:33, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Another thing. Vertical text would be: Energy (eV). But "energy" (quantity) is not expressed in "Volt"s. Please propose the good wording (for eV, here). -DePiep (talk) 22:45, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Energy is expressed in many units, incl. electronvolts (while volts are a measure of another quantity, voltage). It's like that time can be expressed in years, while light years are a measure of distance, rather than time.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 08:10, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * All right then. -DePiep (talk) 09:33, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Continued at Talk:Ununseptium. -DePiep (talk) 12:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

File:Electron affinity of the elements.svg
Please correct "Astanine" to "Astatine" and "Flourine" to "Fluorine". Also, do you think it would be better to change "H" to "Hydrogen" for consistency? Double sharp (talk) 04:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. My spelling check is something to worry about. -DePiep (talk) 11:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this image would look nicer/less crowded with element symbols rather than full names, thank you DiPiep Sandbh (talk) 22:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Will change that. You think the Z numbers are helpful the way I did them? -DePiep (talk) 23:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think so. Double sharp (talk) 02:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Ditto; clever too. I just noticed that the EA minimums, apart from the first period, actually start with the alkaline earths rather than the alkali metals. I need to check that reference to see if it did in fact refer to the alkali or alkaline earth metals. Sandbh (talk) 11:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I see: there is a spike with He-Li-Be, and that returns each period. Let me know if something is to be changed. -DePiep (talk) 13:54, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if you would do an electron affinity in kilojoules, please? I'm interested in using it in an article and in the next edition of my text (with attribution) Geoff Chemist  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoff Chemist (talk • contribs) 18:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean: a different scale on the left-hand side? eV into kilojoules? I can do that. Please note the ratio. DePiep (talk) 22:08, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Geoff Chemist (talk) 19:47, 11 December 2012 (UTC)Yes, please, kilojoules per mole would be great! Thank you. Geoff Chemist

re: about yesterday
Your apology is more than accepted. I also admit I was a little (too) rough with the F bomb. I do not mean the picture I use for my page as an attack on good editors such as yourself IN ANY WAY (which I also saw later that you were a good sincere editor) and my apologies if you construed it as aggression. I use it to deter vandalism on my page (especially with them vandalizing it after I reverted hundreds of their edits in a row with stiki at one time), and it is specifically aimed toward those who do such. I had to have my page protected by Ged UK because of the vandalism it was getting.

Can I buy you a beer? Thebestofall007 (talk) 23:01, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Expanded Janet Periodic table
I want to compliment you on your effort to correct the presentation of the Janet periodic table in a format that best represents the organization of the succession of accumulation processes that resulted in the creation of the atomic nuclei. You have also helped greatly to better understand the significant differences between it and the IUPAC table. I would also like to call to your attention a feature that can be shown in the Janet table that relates to the nuclear structure in that it further subdivides the element groups into smaller 2 element and 4 element subdivisions in accordance with my contribution on this subject matter in the article Talk:Charles Janet. This noted grouping organization process further indicates the existence of an organized process of nucleon accumulation as being in action during these chaotic atomic building periods. The subdivisions of the groups is also related to structural features of the atomic nuclei.WFPM (talk) 00:08, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. And sorry, I cannot change the Janet PT, I don't know enough. Probably should be agreed upon on a talkpage. -DePiep (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It is in the Talk:Charles Janet article. But you improved the situation by getting it into the Periodic Table article, because more people will pay attention to it there. I hope.WFPM (talk) 16:30, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It never ceases to amaze me as to how the substance of the Wikipedia articles gets shaped by the 2 types of contributers, namely 1, interested and opinionated contributers to the subject matter, and 2, relatively disinterested contributers who are interested in the organization of the presentation. I keep thinking about the quoted phrase "out of the mouth of babes comes wisdom!" and I hope that the prediction of the phrase comes true.WFPM (talk) 18:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

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NavPeriodicTable again
Hello DePiep. Could you try to get the NavPeriodicTable to use "." for the superactinides that are ripped out of the main table instead of ".."? When changing the periodic table I couldn't figure out how to change it to "." without completely messing up the alignment of the groups. Double sharp (talk) 14:07, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. (First took out one whole &lt;div ... /> that was the righthand dot, then widen~ed the horizontal padding around the dot to 2px le&ri so the cell is 6px (2+2+2; from 1+2+1+2+0) wide as all others). Pls notify when something does not look good. My browser shows OK. -DePiep (talk) 14:43, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! It looks very good. Double sharp (talk) 07:52, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

November 2012
Fuck off. We both know. You patronise me. -DePiep (talk) 00:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

template:logical symbols
Care to explain? The change in output was negligible, save for a massive cleanup of the main table (which used dead cells for positioning, something that was discouraged in 1997). Did I miss something? Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 02:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes output was the same, but organisation helped/you rmoved. Templates get messy, and these commnets helped overview. I what I meant. -DePiep (talk) 02:15, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * So you reverted a complete overhaul of the code because I removed some HTML comments? That's not in the least bit productive. This code is a train wreck of old copy-paste and when properly simplified it shouldn't need comments. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 17:14, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're rigth. I did self rv. -DePiep (talk) 21:27, 28 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Many thanks. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 16:51, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Coetzee pron
Thanks so much for fixing that! I kept tinkering with it, trying to get it to show the correct stress, and finally gave up, hoping someone else who knew better would come along. I'm relieved it happened! Languagehat (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. So the template documentation was not not helpful (or didn't you see)? Anyway, the page was in a tracking category because illogic capitalisation was detected. -DePiep (talk) 16:37, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

unicode
What do you think of the direction at User:ChristTrekker/UnicodeSymbol? Feel free to comment there. ⇔ <span style="font-size-adjust:0.54; font-family:'P22 Declaration Script','American Scribe','National Archive', Ovidius, 'Ovidius Script', Horizon, 'Final Frontier Old Style', Charcoal, Virtue;">ChristTrekker 15:58, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Explain?
You reverted an edit by Hyperionsteel at MEMRI which, though phrased boldly on his own, did reflect consensus among three editors that the body of criticism within the article should have some representation in lede and not appear, as Roscelese pur it, like "a business directory where everything must appear as promotional as possible". You termed Hyperionsteel's entry "weasel talk". Perhaps once I revert on behalf of the consensus, you can pop by and help us understand your reasoning and create an improved draft. I'd be grateful. ClaudeReigns (talk) 03:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Well described, I won't challenge. -DePiep (talk) 18:36, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Wage slavery image
Thanks so much! --CartoonDiablo (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And you thanks for saying so. Have a nice edit. -DePiep (talk) 08:10, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

2px gaps
see this thread. Frietjes (talk) 17:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Other people
I think "Other people1" should redirect to "Other people" and I am not sure whether "other people3" should exist. Since you did a lot of work on hatnotes, what do you think? -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:58, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Will surely take a look, but later on. -DePiep (talk) 23:54, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Template:Other people1 is a hatnote with earlier TfD (January 2011). Back then is was kept (redirected) because it was in use. Today no more. So it should be deleted (the number "1" is useless and unnecessary, it is not a "promising redirect").
 * Template:Other people3 is an old "disambiguation" driven template, that is complicated to use into uselessness. I have never bothered to even look at the folded usage prescription (e.g., it adds "(disambiguation)" to page titles entered, but not always. Also the phrasing is overstructured). In general, I'd say these let's help editors to disambiguate hatnote templates are a bore. Any editor can type "(disambiguation)" to a page title, especially since they are already must know that that is (per its prescription or text outcome). There is no gain in these pre-constructed phrases and disambiguation links. BUT the WP:DAB police is so fiercely not involved with editors and editing, that proposing to delete (or restructure) the is a useless case. That said, you can give it a try. You can quote me. -DePiep (talk) 01:45, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Double sharp (talk) 11:34, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 31
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 * Just edit it, you. -DePiep (talk) 11:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Urgent talkback
I reverted the template first, as the "*" and "**" cells for the lanthanides and actinides were displaying wrongly everywhere. Double sharp (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Will have to take take another look. -DePiep (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW, single-digit atomic numbers are appearing a bit too far to the right. Two- and three-digit atomic numbers don't seem to have this problem. Double sharp (talk) 10:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought had tackled that one too. Will take a look (no need to reverse for this imo). -DePiep (talk) 11:01, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't actually revert for that one, as it wasn't very obvious like the previous issue. Double sharp (talk) 12:44, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. -DePiep (talk) 12:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Next time, please add a simple wikilink to the page you saw it going wrong. Would be very helpful. -DePiep (talk) 22:02, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Compact periodic table
On my screen (now 1366×864) the column widths are displaying improperly (not all the same width as before). The old version works fine. Could you try fixing this? Double sharp (talk) 12:07, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What I saw: in Compact periodic table, the three columns with Uux were wider. Will take a look. -DePiep (talk) 12:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But wait, this is not fatal, so the revert was not necessary. -DePiep (talk) 17:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Bab al Shams for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article  Bab al Shams  is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/ Bab al Shams  until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Unicode Code Charts
As someone who has been active in the maintenance of Unicode code chart templates, you may wish to be involved in the discussions relating to the proposed deletion of Template:Unicode chart Meroitic Hieroglyphs and Template:Unicode chart Meroitic Cursive and the merging of their content into the article Meroitic alphabet. BabelStone (talk) 21:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

January 2013
Hello, I'm GoShow. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Carbon group because it didn't appear constructive. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.  GoShow (............................)   01:55, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've reverted GoShow, maybe you missed the correct click? --Izno (talk) 02:09, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed. GoShow, maybe you clicked one row off in the history? -DePiep (talk) 07:50, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

bab al shams
see my commments to you on the bab al shams talk page.... Soosim (talk)

Request for comment
Hello! I saw that you edited in the past Template:Eastern name order and I'd like to invite you to intervene at Talk:Michael Szilágyi where there is an ongoing discussion regasrding its use. Thanks in advanceTranserd (talk) 12:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Titles for articles on groups and periods of the periodic table
Sorry, DePiep. I have been preoccupied with other matters and could not answer your questions at Talk:Group 3 element in time. It has now been closed. No doubt the process was valuable! Let's discuss it all again, with a broader framing and with wide participation. At the most suitable project page, yes? I am still busy; but do let me know when you raise the topic again. It's an important one; and I'm sure we all want to achieve an optimal set of titles.

Best wishes,

N oetica Tea? 04:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 19
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Rail guage template
It is a very sore point with some eds that 'cape guage' is put against 3' 6" - it is a local usage in south africa and rarely used elsewhere, and never has been used in Australia or other places with large amount of 3' 6'' rail - is it possible to make it 'conditional' - and not a 'universal' application? Thanks if you can help sats 00:49, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * About RailGauge
 * I get your point, thank you. What you say is correct: use Cape Gauge name only in SA. Today, I am working on hundreds of pages, using WP:AWB. That is because I check the template RailGauge (my selection is about 2500 pages). So I can:
 * a. Take care of this next weeks. I can propose a nice solution (testing first). But that takes time.
 * b. Change something right now, manually. To do so I'd like to know which pages are wrong, now. Please mention them.
 * c. If there is a fire somewhere (a page spoiled or with red errors or so, absolutely wrong), call me any time.

-DePiep (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No rush - no need to worry about which way to fix it - (a) sounds fine - just as long as it is not set in stone.. hey you deserve many barnstars - so few people are fixing up templates these days - more power to you... sats 10:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite simple already: if you don't want the name "Cape gauge" to appear (because it is in America), then don't switch on on. Numbers only. I don't see what the templates should do different. -DePiep (talk) 13:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Category:Unicode character
Category:Unicode character, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Graphics Lab header
Hi DePiep, you recently reworked the Graphics Lab header area. Fine job by the way. I take issue with a minor aspect however... the width of 80%. It seems unnecessary and at lower browser resolutions it causes the Eight Requests to bunch up. I can only guess that you did this so that the header stands out from the rest of the page a little, but I think it would be better at 95% or so. I would have taken the liberty of going through and making the changes myself, but out of courtesy figured I'd run it by you first. And seeing as you're the one who put it together, you would be more qualified than I to make the change... if you so agreed of course. – JBarta (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Read it. Good point (very good, actually). Please allow me to respond later (as a promise). -DePiep (talk) 01:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I set it to 80% because most of these pageheader boxes are 80%. See random this and this. This way the whoile column of boxes lines nice. Note that we cannot (easily) change the basic note bar width: that will stay 80%. So we'll get headers like this. I think there is a general idea about these pageheaders. On the other hand, the GL pages are not talkpages. That's all I know. I suggest you just try the 100% width, and see & hear the effect. You'll remember how chaotic the GL pages were a month ago, so from there everything is an improvement. -DePiep (talk) 13:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I read your reply above when you wrote it. I figured you were content to leave it at 80% and I haven't decided if I'm going to try changing it anyway. There's an old saying... when in doubt, do nothing. So for now I guess it stays. – JBarta (talk) 00:38, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thankx. Still, as you have read above, I won't oppose a 100% width. Why don't you do & propose? Go in there, young man! -DePiep (talk) 00:43, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:User iso15924
Hi, you seem to have been most active on Template:User iso15924 so I thought I'd come to you first. Out in the wild I'm seeing a lot of this template being used to indicate ability at languages rather than scripts - see User:Kkhemet for an example. I'm no template guru but I imagine it must be possible to test that the parameter1 has only 4 characters and no more or less, and return an error message with a link to the list of official 15924 codes if not? As a secondary thing, it would be good to suppress any categories if the parameter looks faulty, or assign such user pages to a maintenance category, to save people like me having to worry about yet more red-linked categories.... Le Deluge (talk) 11:26, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. Also, I've been thinking that the template should recognise the name of the script ("Cyrillic" should be OK too for Cyrl). Will take a look later on. -DePiep (talk) 11:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * As a first approximation, I'd keep it simple - it's less important to recognise Cyrillic than to reject Spanish, so the 4-character test would be the way to go. I suppose you could do a look up for each code and its full name, but that is maybe getting a bit complicated for something that's at best a nice-to-have. I'm not sure how good Wiki templating is at regexes - testing the last three letters of the four to be letters and lower case would allow you to reject things like zho2 which is probably not common but I'm all for setting the filter as tight as possible.Le Deluge (talk) 12:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Just noticed something else on User:Thekaleb - if a second parameter is not provided, there's no default value which at the very least makes for some ugly red-link categories.Le Deluge (talk) 13:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Good line of thinking. I suggest you continue this on Template talk:User iso15924. I am not unwilling, but there might be more issues involved. Like: existing categoristion of userboxed pages. Over there more people will listen. -DePiep (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Template talk:RailGauge
DePiep, Please see my observation at the end of Template talk:RailGauge. Peter Horn User talk 22:38, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I did, and reacted. but hey Peter, trying to get things done indirectly, though, is not the way we operate. -DePiep (talk) 00:31, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi
You asked on BabelStone's talk page about Han tu. If you're asking for unicode for the Chữ nho/chữ Hán character set it is just the same as traditional Chinese. In fact it is Chinese. If you mean the local chữ Nôm characters embedded in the Han tu article I'm afraid chữ Nôm is an unusual character set for locally adapted old Vietnamese-made characters that won't display without special font support. If you need any help, clarification, please give me a buzz. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:41, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Just tell me what Han nom or Han tu script is in Unicode. Any Iso 15924 code, by the way? I restate that Han tu is not in Unicode. -DePiep (talk) 00:45, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Chữ nho/chữ Hán is part of basic unicode set 1.0.0 for modern traditional Chinese ISO 15924:Hant, but I believe will also require ISO 15924:Hani due to use of obsolete ancient Ming characters.
 * Nôm is part of ISO 15924:Hani. Also VietUnicode, a Unicode font including chữ Nôm characters. It is hosted at http://vietunicode.sourceforge.net/. Downloadable TrueType fonts are available at http://sourceforge.net/projects/vietunicode/
 * Does this help? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Hán tự (old-fashioned term), chữ Hán (modern usage), or just Hán, all refer to traditional Chinese characters, not to a character set peculiar to Vietnam. Nom includes additional characters that are given in CJK Extension B, as explained here. Han-Nom is Han plus Nom. No, you don't need any special downloads. Kauffner (talk) 14:21, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It is quite understandable that the script needs a specialised font to show it correctly. But that is not the issue here, fonts are only invited to use Unicode. They are not defining Unicode. Next, as I read it, the script with ISO code Hant is completely within Hani (Script_(Unicode)). It is not am addition, Unicode has no name ("Alias value"). for it.
 * I start understanding that Han tu is completely represented within CJK characters code. In that case, to describe it we might add it to that (existing) script like "CJK (including Han tu)", much as it is also common to write "CJK (including Vietnamese)" or "CJKV". Like "English alphabet" is within script=Latin. If this is correct, there is no need to mention Han tu (or its alternative name) in the Unicode navbox. -DePiep (talk) 17:00, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "Han tu" is the character set used write Classical Chinese. It does not include any characters specific to Vietnam. This word has been misused on Wiki for a long time now and I am trying to correct it. If you mean Sino-Vietnamese characters, that is Han-Nom. Many of these characters are in Extension B. But there is no standard Han-Nom character set and the Han-Nom Research Institute in Hanoi continues to catalog them and create additional glyphs. Kauffner (talk) 00:25, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I just created a little chart explaining the Unicode status of Han-Nom here. Kauffner (talk) 13:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you again. I'll have to study all this. -DePiep (talk) 14:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Converting Munsell colors?
I ran into a source that gives a set of distinguishable colors I'd like to use but they're in a "Munsell color system" that is looking like a ridiculous hassle. Apparently in the halcyon days of the Internet these colors were actually colors, that could be understood and readily translated to RGB or any other format by a utility available from the site itself but now they are said to be too ethereal to be known by hand or eye of man without paying money or getting a special time limited demo program, varying from machine to machine according to the gamma factor and who knows what else. There are little bits of shrapnel from people who seem not to have gotten the word but I haven't found anything usable.

I think it would be great if this color convert module you've proposed were set up to handle these. But first I need to know how, and what the big malfunction is that has managed to scramble things so badly. Do you know anything about this? Wnt (talk) 17:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * First time I hear of Munsell color space. A first google exposed more problems than answers indeed. Still, I think there must be a conversion algorithm (because the color space looks well based). If we can find these caculations sure we should add it to the converter. Maybe this may be distracting: it was published in 1936 or so. These years, also CIELAB was developed (which is much more about human perception of color). If known conversion is to/from CIELAB, it might be more difficult (probably for another moodule). CIELAB not RGB is used to define and communicate television colors professionally. A different beast! Later more. DePiep (talk) 23:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Not easy. Author Kenneth L. Kelly of your first linked pdf published in 1939. He might be the originator of the issue! As I mentioned, Munsell is one of these human eye based color spaces, the RGB technical route only entered dozens of years later (1931 had little internet around, or it must have been b/w I guess). Seriously, Munsell (and CIELAB, ISCC–NBS, RAL, ...) are color systems based on pigments and physical, calibrated references (like painted charts). That makes it very difficult to connect them to RGB. Munsell probably needs a route via some CIE base.
 * I found this with translation tables, but cound not reproduce "white" from your pdf. I'll look around. -DePiep (talk) 11:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Legends
Have one more look: Template:Periodic table (pnictogens)

Wouldn't it be better to shorten the legend by removing the colored boxes from them? Think it's pretty clear anyway what the colors mean.

Think that a shorter legend always equals "better."
 * signing ;-) User:R8R Gtrs (no problem. Your wording is pleasant and recognisable -DePiep (talk) 21:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC))
 * re R8R. Maybe, but unlikely for me. Color usage (WP:COLOR) says like (my interpretation here): do not use color without explanation/legend. Never a color in itself should mean something: give it a secondary explanation (=legend, ...). So that is why I added the full legend to the PT groups infobox: If we use green in the element cell, we must explain what that green means.
 * On a secondary level (illustrating), I want to say this. All WP:ELEM editors know the PT by heart. You already know the green=non-metal association, right? But we write for the reader, not the (PT knowing) editor. Therefor, we must explain to that reader what it is about. I still feel very happy that I made these group sidebars this way. -DePiep (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * All I wanted to say is, color doesn't add anything. If we even had no color at all, they amount of info wouldn't be altered. Like a readers wonders, "Why is nitrogen colored green here?" He checks the legend, sees it stands for "reactive nonmetal" or whatever it will finally be, and thinks: "Hey, I already know that, that is noted right in the cell!" Color differentiation seems just a duplication. Do we even need it?
 * OTOH, some people won't be maybe get why the color is even green, even if it's easy to notice. Will it be really worse without color? Dunno. Maybe the amount of info given won't change, but it will be more difficult to read. I googled and found out there's such a thing as making design slightly more complicated on purpose; it's used to make things more informative. So as seems, we now have just enough information for none to wonder what anything stand for. I guess your version is the best possibility on offer.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 15:07, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This I agree with. One minor point: the colors also appear in the micro-periodic table in the top. That would become unexplained then. but ok with me, we could throw out these colors (the category is in text already, below a picture we have a lot of space.) Would you drop a note at WT:ELEM? See Template:Periodic table (pnictogens)/sandbox. -DePiep (talk) 15:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I dunno what's the best. Dropped a note here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:16, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * over to WT:ELEM. -DePiep (talk) 23:14, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

CJK Ideographs template
Thanks for working on this template. I was going to get to that after I got through all the Unicode blocks (only 32 left!), but I'm glad someone else cares enough to clean it up as I upset the balance. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 12:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I have been working on that one every 6 months, for 3 years or so. Only now I got some overview myself. (Next stop: merge the split ones into fewer pages? - and check the recent font setting). -DePiep (talk) 13:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Mind having a look?
I come up with more ideas. Two for now. Want to know if it's worth doing and doable.

Look at rhenium. Any article will do, this one is a random example. Our element infoboxes are damn big. You have to scroll it so far down to see it end. The reason why I'm writing at all is that, well, it's problematic to add images into the first section, cause the infobox is still in there. Even sometimes the second section is affected. Brrrr. Is it okay? If not, can anything be done against that? Two-column infoboxes? Pop-up sections (like templates in the end of again, rhenium, but also others)? Anything?

Also, look once again at ununseptium. The pics are horrifyingly arranged. I mean, it looks pretty when it's 800x600, but there are people like me who use 1600x900 (say if you don't have access to 1600x900, I'll add some screenshots, they're so easy to make). I actually want to center one image (the island one), but if it's 800x600, it can be only 575 px wide, and when this is turned into 1600x900, there's empty space to the left and to the right from it, just as big as the pic itself. Is it treatable? I'll be fine with anything that makes the pics not so packed.

Sorry if I'm bothering you with the problems too much, you just seem like a Wikidesign god to me, so I help you make the world a little better, these are only those I have no solution for.

--R8R Gtrs (talk) 20:18, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Read. Will reply. Hey, I just saw you are in Moskov. -DePiep (talk) 20:37, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Which/what kind of images would you like to add (that makes problems with the infobox)? Let's keep rhenium as example. indeed. -DePiep (talk) 21:02, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Actuallly, I disagree with all of you here. Anyone can improve a WP page easily. -DePiep (talk) 21:27, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a lovely city (with room for improvements), but the goddamn snow only begins to melt :(
 * Like if I wanted to add an image of the Rhine or Ida Noddack (she was a co-discoverer of rhenium) into the History section, I'd have to squeeze the text between the infobox and the images, which isn't good at all.
 * Many see a page, few notice a problem, fewer still know how to solve it, and even fewer fix it. I would've never made such a beautiful PT with names, for example.--R8R Gtrs (talk) 19:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The PT with names sandbox sometimes has irregular group widths, so it is not OK yet. (in my Safari browser, for example). For images, see Alkali metal I say: nicely arranged. Even if we make the infobox half its heigth, the same problem is there. Namely: better make a nice arrangement yourself. Maybe use left-side pictures. Ah, and take care of your city. For me to visit in the future (I am not Napoleon minded). -DePiep (talk) 01:43, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

FYI
Hello D. Apologies for intruding on your talk page but I wanted to make you aware of a Tom Lehrer item I came across a couple years ago. This has a CD of some of his songs AND it also contains a DVD with several clips of Lehrer over the years. The DVD also has a concert that Lehrer performed in Oslo. It is a wonderful treat and I wanted you to be aware of it. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 23:05, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * spamming? -DePiep (talk) 23:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No I hope not. I was just trying to make you aware of on item that you might enjoy. However, if this causes offense please feel free to remove the thread with my apologies. MarnetteD | Talk 23:16, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem (it was about the link). I enjoyed the song, and many other songs of him. And I enjoy science. Maybe will research your hints later on. You knew "harvard" rhymes with "discovered"? ;-) -DePiep (talk) 02:58, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes but you have to pronounce both words with a Boston accent - H-ah-vard and dis-c-ah-vered. Another one of the wonderful play on words that he did. It would have been interesting to be in one of his math classes when he went to being a professor full time. Enjoy the rest of your week. MarnetteD | Talk 03:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is one of the funs. Will listen again. Enjoy. -DePiep (talk) 03:23, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

From trivia to highlight
Thanks! Yes, I am happy with the result too. -DePiep (talk) 13:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

CJK Ideographs Extension C
Sometimes it's so screwed up it hurts, doesn't it? VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 22:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep. trying. -DePiep (talk) 22:56, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's still screwed up. The unicode chart template needs to get remade, and everything else just needs to transclude it. The unicode block article shouldn't change. They conflated the small CJK chart templates with the large ones back in 2010, which has caused all of this mess. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 23:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I asked this. Could not move them without adminship. Wait. -DePiep (talk) 23:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Holy crap, it's just gone surreal. JPaestpreornJeolhlna just edited the block article, and it appears correctly. The problem is that the template it trascludes is just a redirect back to the article. I literally have no idea how this is even possible, and as far as I can tell, the unicode chart information has been pulled out thin air. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:25, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, apparently, they had a cached version of the template, and it ended up recognizing the self-transclusion. I think I've got it all sorted out, and I've asked ANI to check for any attribution problems. VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

So I've just asked JPaestpreornJeolhlna to discuss any changes to extension C articles or templates here before doing anything, just until we get all the kinks worked out of what happened. I'll do the same, and I need you to do it too. That way we're not screwing each other up. Ok? VanIsaacWS Vex<sup style="margin-left:-7.0ex">contribs 00:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Please see my response at WP:ANI, and keep in mind that I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. Nyttend (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Unknown properties
Can you change this legend entry back to "Unknown chemical properties"? They do have known properties. Atomic weight, for example. It's just that they don't have known chemical properties. Double sharp (talk) 09:41, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point. I added another point, over at WT:ELEM (where it originated). -DePiep (talk) 19:01, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Infobox fix
Can you add the reference for the magnetic susceptibility to the Fluorine infobox? I tried doing it with a named ref, but it seemed to make something break (not sure what the rules are).

The ref is currently #23 and is in the section on atomic and molecular structure

"Cheng, H.; Fowler, D. E.; Henderson, P. B.; Hobbs, J. P.; Pascaloni, M. R. (1999). "On the magnetic susceptibility of fluorine". Journal of Physical Chemistry A 103 (15): 2861–2866. doi:10.1021/jp9844720."
 * Will do. In short: the trick is one adds complete refs (copies) on both pages (article and template). Extra: I'll use a single name twice, so they merge in the article ref list. -DePiep (talk) 21:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. -DePiep (talk) 21:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI: this single edit does it, copied from the article. -DePiep (talk) 21:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you.TCO (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Periodic table with group names included
DePiep, are you able to create a periodic table template that includes the group names as per, for example, this table? I would like to see what a table including group names would look like in html. If astatine is categorised as a metalloid, and this means losing the halogen category, then the loss is likely to be more palatable if the name of the halogens is still shown somewhere. Then we will have the extra beauty of our interesting colour categories + group names, in one neat table. Sandbh (talk) 12:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. I understand that important is:


 * 1. Set the legend correct by new texts (and use the example colors)
 * 2. Put group names readable in there (but not yet above their column; soon later on, like in periodic table (group names)).
 * 3. Use element background colors as in the example (but for now, internally I'll simply use the old color code "halogen" for yellow).
 * Other important issues you can note of course, easily when this PT version is visible. -DePiep (talk) 12:46, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. See periodic table (nonmetals variant). I'll leave it to you to spread links over WP:ELEM pages. -DePiep (talk) 16:07, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

three things
1. First thank you for your good humor and friendliness.

2. What was your concern with the width of SF4 image? (displays fine for me)

3. Can you cut the electron image from the infobox? I am fine with it in general, but in this article, I already have a similar (better) drawing in article text. Plus we have the electron configuration. And it is big. Just ends up being crufty.

(thanks in advance. I appreciate all your tabular tendancies!)

TCO (talk) 01:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

re 1: thx, really, from you

re 2: what is SF4? some link please. Cannot remember an issue.

re 3: must be about Fluorine. You want out of the infobox? Can do of course, but we'll need more talk at WP:ELEM.
 * That is: can & will do for Z=9, but what is the big thinking for all elements (and this a just low Z)?

-DePiep (talk) 01:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

A. Leave the diagram in the rest of them. Just pull it out of F. (It is a little big too, for all of them, but I don't really want to have another 100 page talkpage discussion.  Let me be the workhorse who writes the articles!  I really don't want more WP:ELEM talk page discussion...even as friendly as it is)

B. "Let me note that File:Sulfur-tetrafluoride-3D-balls.png is too wide. -DePiep (talk) 20:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)"

C. (BTW)  Yes, Fluorine is a trampy, trampy slut. She will sleep with anyone. But I like her anyway. She sleeps with me especially.

TCO (talk) 01:42, 4 June 2013 (UTC) B.
 * Then kiss F for me too ;-) and don't get burned/binded/attached. Will rm that simple graph for Z=9, technically simple (weird as it is, not consistent). Please explain this excemption at Talk:Fluorine or better WT:ELEM I suggest. -DePiep (talk) 01:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't really agree personally with removing the infobox image for F and F alone. Will post on why tomorrow. Double sharp (talk) 16:27, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I can understand. I suggest it be talked at F article talk or WT:ELEM, not here. TCO wil have an opinion too. -DePiep (talk) 16:34, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, the need did not arise...I may post the "rant" on my userpage though so that it is not lost into the unexplored depths of my brain. :-P Double sharp (talk) 16:30, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * re TCO about SF4 image being too wide: in my screen, it is positioned below the infobox, which leaves a large whitespace on the lefthand side of the page (text side). -DePiep (talk) 16:47, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Just leave the Bohr view in the infobox. I DON'T want to have a debate about it or ask permission from WP:ELEM. ;-) TCO (talk) 17:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I will revert. No problem with me. What I'll miss: your thoughts on this. -DePiep (talk) 20:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Haha. You are much kinder than the norm on Wiki. It's really not a huge deal. Doesn't bug me that much. I just thought since I already have a large, better image in discussion, like to save the space in the infobox. honest, it does not bug me to keep it though.

If you make a screenshot of the SF4 problem, I will look into it. I think you might be talking about a different image (SF4 is not near infobox, but down in compounds...do you mean alpha-fluorine?). Also, I can't tell if the display is glitching up for you or you just don't like the way I intended it. So screenie please. ;-)

TCO (talk) 20:19, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * End of issue. My reading & editing mental sphere is dim these days. -DePiep (talk) 20:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Issues with Template:IPA soundbox
You seem to be behind much of the work related to IPA soundbox. I made a rather drastic move by simply removing the parameters that allowed removal of file links, but it needed to be done.

You've done a great job making a lot of templates, but when it comes to sound files, you allowed the templates to edit out links to the audio file, something which should simply never be an available option. I would appreciate if you could help solve it. Have a look at Template talk:IPA soundbox and template talk:Infobox IPA.

Peter Isotalo 19:03, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * You are on the right track. The IPA sound things are weird spaghetty (I created them). But hey: they served well for some years ;-) . -DePiep (talk) 22:57, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Seriously: I'll re-read & re-reply tomorrow. Sure they could have make-over. I do not own. -DePiep (talk) 22:57, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

chemical formulae
Hi. Just read ethylene oxide (thanks Materialscientist and Incnis Mrsi for pointing), and saw all those ugly LaTEX equations. Could you figure out some way to (1) extend text arrows smoothly (make them long enough for (2)) and (2) put small text over them? Double sharp (talk) 14:42, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting, challenging question. However, since I am bizzy IRL and have more unfinished tasks in WP (including ELEM), I will not take it. Just to reduce expectations & promises. -DePiep (talk) 10:12, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

'your edit saving only i guess?'
It also happens when opening an IPA page, but not always. I suppose it always gets 'recompiled' on save, though. Makes editing IPA pages a pain. — Lfdder (talk) 00:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, after an edit in the template all the pages have to be recompiled once, so they are slow loading. But I think it is not prohibitive. It is very invasive to use performance as an editing guide. I think we have to suffer it. -DePiep (talk) 05:46, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I meant that it gets recompiled every time I save an IPA page too. — Lfdder (talk) 08:39, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. That too. Maybe time to speed it up with Lua (not by me shortly). But I still think the slowness should not be a reason to reduce content. I remember, before the {cite} templates were in Lua, there were huge complaints at WP:VPT about slow loading pages (with many references), up to 30 sec. But theat has not become a reason to reduce the number of refs. -DePiep (talk) 08:47, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't think not having the tables embedded would be very significant, but maybe I misjudged. I tried subst'ing them in the sandbox but it doesn't look like subst works recursively (and I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea even if it worked). — Lfdder (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think them more relevant, it is the "A" in IPA ;-). And if they are more speedy, we would not doubt at all do we? If subst would work, it would be an OK solution. But they are quite nested (better if we can redo the subst later again to add changes). Any Lua interests with you? {IPAsym} would be a great start. -DePiep (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah I could try that. What would be a good way to handle the symbol list? Inside a submodule maybe? — Lfdder (talk) 09:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

First the entries should better be grouped (reordered) for our maintenance overview. I thought ordering by phonetical property: Vowels: (close list, near-close list, ...); Consonants by Manner of Articulation (nasals, stops, ...) then by Place of Art (so: m̥ m ɱ n̪) -- non-pulmonics etc. For the list, I was advised in a similar thing to use mw.loadData subpage: it loads that table once per page for multi use. Might look like Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist, but this IPAsym needs a many-to-one structure (the #switch). -DePiep (talk) 10:04, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Not sure how many-to-one would work in Lua? Maybe a table for the key?

local symbols = { [{"101", "p"}] = "voiceless bilabial stop" ,[{"101 408", "p̪"}] = "voiceless labiodental stop" } for k, v in pairs(symbols) do  for x, y in pairs(k) do     ... end end
 * Looks messy. — Lfdder (talk) 10:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Multi-to-one" I only saw done this way: repeat every outcome

(See Module:Convert/data, near end of file). If the big Lua minds do it this way, we could follow.
 * If you are in for a restructured concept: say the new IPAsym returns the correct IPA name (not WP article name). That identification is put into a second table, which can return by option: the IPA definition, or WP_article title, or soundfile-name (if non-default), or group ("non-pulmatic consoonant)". That second table would look like Module:Convert/data, top data block this time:


 * Of course you'd like to use out-of-WP editing (spreadsheet or script) to keep the lists in control. Good communications I find at Lua requests. -DePiep (talk) 11:33, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I'm not sure how splitting the table would be beneficial though? Just to make it easier to maintain? I've created a quick proof of concept sort of thing here. You can invoke it with IPAsym/sandbox. — Lfdder (talk) 12:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * TThe splitting would introduce the option to return various output for the same IPA symbol: WP article (now in IPAsym), the IPA name, soundfile name etc, all through one basic list. But as said, this is expanding the concept a lot. -DePiep (talk) 12:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Does the procedure loop through the whole table? Should not be necesssary. Since you try to catch variants in one entry (both "101", "p")? (another reason to split data tables: all our ~1000 input variants lead to their id (~250; which is the IPA name I suggest for identification, not the WP page name which may differ). Then these 250 ids have their properties listed in the 2nd table. -DePiep (talk) 12:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The option is already there. Anyway, I've split it up 'cos it's more tidy. Would it not loop thru the whole table either way? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. — Lfdder (talk) 13:55, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Basic functionality is there, syntax is {IPAsym/sandbox|symbol|blank or one of name/wpname/soundfile/type}. Not sure what sort of error handling we might want. Is there a library we use in Lua for that? — Lfdder (talk) 17:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * error handling has working examples. For codeexamples, just check out a well versed module you are familiar with via WP:LUA. {IPAsym} now has some error options (parameter 3, errortext), for covering the old template we would need them 1:1. In the future, they could be simplified (but today it would break existing IPAsym usage). Disclosure: I build that option-maze. Must say, your approach is great, going step by step; I was afraid of the 1000 rules to be handled. -DePiep (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've taken a look at a few of them, looks like everyone's just got their own little function for it emitting plain ol' HTML. ;P I think sandbox now replicates all the functionality of {IPAsym}, tho I didn't implement direct_page 'cos it looks like something that ought to be handled by IPAlink? — Lfdder (talk) 21:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Your last Q is why I did not want to dive into this! So sorry, no answer in that. I'll build a Lua test page to grill your module. -DePiep (talk) 22:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * An old itch, now it is Module:IPA symbol/sandbox. Please allow me in afterward? -DePiep (talk) 22:14, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah sure. — Lfdder (talk) 22:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Will have to fix some redlinks ... -DePiep (talk) 22:18, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Module:IPA symbol/sandbox
Do you have a simple working example? I get:
 * &rarr;
 * expected: &rarr;

-DePiep (talk) 22:48, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You need to call the function first, &rarr;  — Lfdder (talk) 22:50, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course. Lua. -DePiep (talk) 22:52, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not edit on the same page simultaniously. I can't handle that. More tomorrow. -DePiep (talk) 23:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. Do you think it would be better to move it to 'IPA symbol', with the space? — Lfdder (talk) 01:12, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, is better. -DePiep (talk) 07:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Module:IPA symbol/sandbox/testcases now working. Falings in the error text only
 * Please see Module:IPA symbol/sandbox2 and Module:IPA symbol/sandbox/data2. I have simplified the table into 2D symbol-name pairs. The lookup now is: name=symbol_to_name[symbol] (Each symbol has its own entry with the name next to it). Main gain is that we don't have to loop through the list to check all options. Second half of testcases now test this /sandbox2. -DePiep (talk) 10:40, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, you can keep the data as it is, it gets converted to 2d before it's sent to the main code. — Lfdder (talk) 10:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * /data2 is a separate page, so it does not interfere with your /data at all. It is only used in /sandbox2, also a new separate page. I have not edited the pages you work in. But I see you could get rid of the loop in your code, which solves the point. -DePiep (talk) 10:57, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've done that now and also fixed a failure. — Lfdder (talk) 11:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for setting up all the test cases. — Lfdder (talk) 15:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * YThanks. Good testing: building takes more time than solving! Did not expect you to run so close behind me. When I did my final testpage checks, the numbers had dropped so I got suspicious. -DePiep (talk) 15:54, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Please continue at Module talk:IPA symbol. Now if you want that space in the title, you got a lot of pages to move :) . -DePiep (talk) 15:54, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Sandboxes
Not even a week ago is not recent? — Lfdder (talk) 00:09, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I am cleaning up secondary links from IPA symbol. So .../sandboxes are "suspected" at first. In this, the sandbox is older than IPA symbol is. So I deleted the content. If you want to develop, I suggest you copy-paste source code into the secondary /sandbox. Fine with me. In this, one week indeed made the /sandbox page old. -DePiep (talk) 00:20, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What are secondary links? — Lfdder (talk) 00:26, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * First I check WLH for IPA symbol (filter template space only): . That would be primary links. Then I do 2 or 3 clicks to get a category. When that category shows a /sandbox, I empty that old incorrect sandbox page and write "replace with source" or so. If the /sandbox is one week old and I know the source has changed, I edit. -DePiep (talk) 00:36, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Right... — Lfdder (talk) 09:06, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

July 2013
''C'mon. You know to discuss changes rather than repeatedly reverting. This reminder should not be needed.'' VQuakr (talk) 02:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * VQuakr, Talk to the 3rr gaming combine. You should know better (can you read, can you count, are you hired?). -DePiep (talk) 02:15, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Three editors involved, but I am the only one you address? Says enough. -DePiep (talk) 02:18, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * WP:AGF much? Take a few minutes, maybe grab some coffee or some toast, then come back and discuss the proposed template changes collegially. I will do the same, and maybe something productive will happen. VQuakr (talk) 02:23, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * While you address the other involved editors? Or do you need a coffeebreak yourself? AGF only others you? -DePiep (talk) 02:27, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Retired editor helps a friend over 3RR
When reaching the 3RR border (let's skip judgement for no), retired comes back alive to help Kww out. Gaming the system. -DePiep (talk) 01:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * From his talk page, "Well, mostly. I think. I'll still be doing stuff once in a while, but not much." And he didn't exactly "come back alive" . A bit of forum shopping on your part, perhaps? -- Neil N  <sup style="font-family:Calibri;"> talk to me  02:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. This appears to be something that at this point belongs at most on one of your user talk pages. --Onorem (talk) 02:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Kww was at three. That is gaming the system, you friends. -DePiep (talk) 02:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

PTQ new look
cool. :-) Double sharp (talk) 16:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Pierre Auger Observatory
Hi, do you have any idea why our Observatory's logo keeps disappearing? Darko.veberic (talk) 13:51, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It was File:Pierre Auger Observatory-logo.svg. It was deleted because the copyright situation was unclear or wrong. (copyright violations are very serious (possibly expensive) for Wikipedia. I noticed the wrong copyright situation, and suggested the deletion. After that I removed the logo from the page

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pierre_Auger_Observatory&diff=559920937&oldid=559838964 here].
 * Such a logo is a private design (possibly owned by the Observatory's organisation), which may only be used here in "fair use". That would be: not everywhere, but only once on the topics page (that is the PAO page).
 * So what went wrong then? The uploader had not noted that this was a "fair use" only image. So it could be deleted very fast.
 * The solution is, of course, to upload it with the right copyright notice (something like: proving/stating that we can use it by fair use). So that is how the logo could be back (lots of companies have their logo here). I would like to have it back, but I have not enough knowlegde of that process, copyright is legally difficult stuff. If you'd like to try, you could ask for assistance via COPYRIGHT for how to upload - company logo - fair use. To be clear, I'd love to see it back on that page. -DePiep (talk) 07:05, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I will get in touch with our Outreach task and clarify the copyright status with the Observatory's management. IMHO, we could release it. Nevertheless, I have been scanning a lot of pages of large companies like IBM, Apple, Microsoft etc. and it is unclear to me why the situation shouldn't be the same with my logo I made for the Observatory. It is composed of shapes, text etc. and therefore isn't directly considered as a work of art etc. etc. I also don't see why we would try to restrict its usage (I am a senior member of the Pierre Auger Collaboration) and any guidance on how to properly release it would be most welcome. Darko.veberic (talk) 21:34, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If I understand it well, the PAO does not have to release anything (that would be a tough road into copyright legal world for the institute - time not well spend I'd say). To solution is, that someone here atWp downloads the logo, and declares very clearly that it is for "fair use" only. That means: use freely in direct connection with the PAO, such as in the PAO article. That is fine already (something like: one can also quote a newspaper as it is news).
 * Even easier: I'll ask a wp admin to get back the deleted one, and make sure we add that right "fair use" claim. That could solve it easiest way. I'll report on that later on, this place. Meanwhile, you can point the Outreach department to this talk of course. Stay tuned. -DePiep (talk) 12:51, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I have put my request here Media_copyright_questions. -DePiep (talk) 13:23, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Pass through parameters
Hi. As a followup to this and this discussion, you modified the cite pmid/sandbox to allow pass through displayauthor and displayeditor parameters. I am trying to extend this to include author-separator and author-name-separator parameters. This seems to work (see test case), however this modification requires that all parameters be specified in the transcluded template, even if they are blank. Otherwise extraneous characters are displayed, for example: Do you have any suggestions for fixing this error? Thanks. Boghog (talk) 07:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * renders as:


 * Opps, never mind. I forgot to include a "|" character.  It now works properly.  Cheers. Boghog (talk) 07:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)