User talk:Demyx9/Archive 2

Awards
Yeah, that was awesome of you. Thank you very much! :) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  19:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Re:Deconstructive edit
Please tell me which edit was not constuctive??? --Demyx9 14:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I just saw you removed several comments on Talk:Durmstrang. This wasn't major at all, just wanted to give you a heads-up that you shouldn't do that. Thanks, jj137Talk 18:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up but, that was to remove an insult!!!
 * --Demyx9 18:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, it was an earlier edit. I reviewed over it more thouroughly and think you did the right thing. Terribly sorry...please forgive me! jj137Talk 23:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, it wasn't an insult. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  04:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

YEAH
I got an acount!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axel8 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I got him set up, Demyx9. Any problems, drop me a line. Have fin! - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  23:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

re Flying the Flag (for You)
Amending content without either discussion or consensus is often regarded as vandalism. Please provide your rationale for amending the article at its talkpage. Should you continue to amend without comment you may find yourself blocked temporarily from editing Wikipedia. LessHeard vanU 21:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

A looming problem

 * Demyx, I'm noting that you and your twin tend to edit the same articles, and others seem to have noticed this as well. When administrators start to notice, you need to make a few changes to the way you do things. I've spoken to an admin who recently asked me about the nature of your twinship with Ajax. I've recommended that he look into asking you and your twin to edit different articles. this would allow you and Ajax to avoid accusations of sock puppetry and meat-puppetry, the former being a really crappy practice where users create numerous accounts so as to have a bunch of "other users" support their edits (this never works for long, btw, as a simple IP check crashes this little house cards editing behavior). Meat-puppetry is when you ask another user to come and help you push a specific edit. Both practices can get a user blocked and/or banned.
 * Since you and your twin are likely sharing the same modem (if not computer), it is going to be in your best interest (as far as Wikipedia is concerned) to decide what articles each one is going to edit on, and try very hard to avoid the other person's articles, and definitely not support the other person's edits in a dispute. I don't mean you should oppose each other's edits; you should avoi situations where you would be inclined to even comment on them.
 * "I suggest this to help you protect yourself from being accused of being like those users who sock and meat, and richly deserve all the violence the cold, cold world can heap upon them and internet scam artists. I don't think you (or Ajax) are like this, and I thought you should know how your editing behavior is appearing to look like. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  06:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm the big bad admin referred to above. I would comment that there is nothing to stop you and your twin from editing the same articles if that is what you are determined to do. I would advise you, however, that you will have to both be very careful in scrupulously following the rules to avoid accusations of sockpuppetry and meatpuppetry. Please ensure that your edits follow the consensus of other editors (than your twin) and that you explain and discuss any changes.
 * By far the easiest course would be to edit different articles, or the same articles at completely different times. If you or Alex8 have any questions, please feel free to contact me. LessHeard vanU 09:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, LessHeard is not all that bad...he's more like the sort of icky-cranky one gets without enough caffeine to start the day (j/k). He seems a good sort, so if you or your twin have a problem, please drop a line to wither one of us, and we'll nip in and help. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  15:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

As I said

 * The above section addressed the problems that you two were going to run into, being twins. Because of your twinship, you share certain behaviors which to someone who cannot see the two of you each acting separately (like people online). I recommended that you two choose not to work on the same articles, so you can avoid any accusations of 'similar editing styles'. Think of it a different way: have you guys ever picked up the phone at home, only to have the caller think you were the other twin on the phone? Iif you two look aike as well, you can see how people might be confused.
 * In Wikipedia, sometimes dishonest users will create fake usernames for themselves, so when they edit and someone disagrees with them, they sign in with the other ID and act like there are other people supporting those edits when it is just them. These are called sock-puppets, and they are not allowed in Wikipedia. And yes, people get banned all the time for using them. A sock-puppet is not a 'sheep.' No one is out and out calling you names (at least, they shouldn't be), and should be working to AGF, or Assume Good Faith, and not accuse you of sock-puppetry unless you are getting all riled up and not being polite in articles.
 * This means not removing information without explaining why in the line under the edit page called the edit sumamry, where you explain what you are doing and why. When someone reverts you (changes the edit), you don't change it back right away. You go to the Discussion page and post a question asking why it was changed back. Listen to the people there, Demyx - most of them are in the same boat you are, and have been new at one point. Usually, they will explain why it was changed back, or you might be able to convince them that your edit is better. Either way, listen to what they say. If you don't agree, go to Dispute Resolution. That helps you solve problems that pop up in articles the right way. Going back and forth reverting is NOT a battle you or the other guy is going to win - both people might get blocked. Always be prepared to talk and/or compromise with people.

As I said before, sock-puppets are not sheep. Meat-puppetry (whic is also against the rules) would be like if you were dealing with someone who was changing your edits, and you asked your twin to log in and change their edits, or defend your edits. In Wikipedia, you don't get to call your friends to help you. You stand or fall based on the strength of how well you know the rules and how well you edit. Period.
 * Not all suplicate accounts are socks, though. Some people have multiple IDs and use them honestly - they never support their edits from one username with another one, instead identifying on their user page which is the primary account and which is the sub-account. These sub-accounts are used to eidt completely different styles of items. There are many reasons for these accounts, all of them legitimate.
 * This is why I suggested that you and your brother make a decision to not edit within the same article. Ever. If you were just brothers (or sisters, since I don't know your gender), your writing styles might be different. You guys are twins, sharing the same computer. It would be almost impossible to not suspect some sort of trickery going on. But if you don't edit in the same articles, no one will ever see the similarity; the edits will never be right next to each other in the same article.
 * I know that might suck - you probably are going to have to decide who gets to argue about certain video games and whatnot. Once you decide on that, stick with it. Do not get pissed off at each other one day and edit on their articles, because it will get both of you banned and canned. I know that this sort of 'rule' is going to be hard for you two to follow, but if you do, I can pretty much assure you that people will stop yelling that you are sock-puppets and the like. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Bud-nipping

 * No, it doesn't mean kick you out. My message to Less was to help figure out the best way to avoid you guys being accused of being sock-puppets before it escalates into an official-type complaint. As I said above, the best way for you and Ajax to do this is to never edit the same article. If this is a pain in the tucchis, arrange that you get one game, and Ajax gets the other.
 * Sorry if you thought I was advocating banning you, I wasn't. :)
 * And glad to hear that you learned how to deal with edit conflicts. Those situations are just like people trying to park in the same spot at the same time - the faster person will win. No worries though, just go back one screen, copy what you were going to add, go back forward to the Edit Conflic screen and re-paste the edit underneath where the other person posted. If you want, you can put the words 'edit conflict' in parentheses. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi. Thanks for your comments on my talkpage, I will try to answer as many of your queries as I can.

First, me being an admin means I am here to help other editors - so if you aren't sure what I meant then ask me again.
 * Yeah, on talkpages always write new stuff at the bottom. In articles write where it makes sense.
 * You can both edit at the same time, but it would be best to edit different articles. If you do want to edit the same article(s) it would be best to do it when the other is editing something else. Say you both want to edit the article Twins, while one of you edits the article the other can edit something else. When the first has finished then the other one can start - but try not to discuss your edits before swapping over. Other editors do not know that you know each other, and might think it strange that each of you seems to echo the other. Best thing is to write to each other on the article talkpage and make it clear that you are twins.
 * I can't do anything about your ip - it something that your internet provider arranges. If you use the same computer you will always have the same ip when you are both logged in (and depending on your provider you may always have the same ip). If anyone says "Hang on, you both edit the same stuff in the same way and your ip is the same then you may be the same person" just tell them that you are twins. If you need any help just ask me or Arcayne, or go to the admin noticeboard and explain your problem; as I said, admins are editors who are there to help other editors.
 * Your "editing patterns" is simply that you edit the same articles in the same way - once you explain you are twins then all good editors will understand.
 * Calling someone a sockpuppet or meatpuppet is different from calling someone a sheep. Lots of people think the same way, even if they are not twins, but sometimes people will do things to help their friends in an unfair way because they have been asked to - that is a meatpuppet. Other people will open lots of accounts and pretend to be different people, but all saying the same thing, to make other people think that there is a lot of support where there isn't - that is a sockpuppet. People who don't realise that you are twins may make the mistake of thinking that you are either. It is very important to be honest and tell people straight away that you are twins, and if they ask politely it would be best if one or the other of you stops editing the article for a while. However, if you both really do want to edit the same article then you can - because the other person has to believe that you are telling the truth about being twins.
 * Also, you do not have to prove that you are twins - people are supposed to assume good faith - but I would ask you to confirm that you are identical twins. This makes understanding your similarities much easier.

Lastly, once you have finished typing on a talkpage please add four tildes ( ~ ) at the end so people know which twin is typing. LessHeard vanU 20:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC) I am copying this to your twins talkpage.

Thanks so much
Thanks for the barnstars. You didn't need to give them to me, as I consider new users like you and your brother to be the next generation of admins, and if you have good experiences here when you are starting, you are far more likely to be better admins if and when that time comes. Have a great time! :) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  19:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)