User talk:Denimadept/Archive 1

Hello, Denimadept, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:
 * Be Bold!
 * Meet other new users
 * Learn from others
 * Play nicely with others
 * Contribute, Contribute, Contribute!
 * Tell us about you

If you have any questions or problems, no matter what they are, leave me a message on my talk page. Or, please come to the new contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

Please sign your name on talk pages and votes by typing &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;; our software automatically converts it to your username and the date.

We're so glad you're here! --Polaron | Talk 02:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

French King Bridge
Fantastic, thank you! -- Tckma 01:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Rocky Hill - Glastonbury Ferry
Those are great photos! -- aBSuRDiST -T ☺ C- 14:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

coord name
The name= modification has not yet been made. So the points will show on the map with only numbers until coord is modified. (SEWilco 21:40, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
 * Bummer. That explains why it didn't work. Denimadept 21:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pencil
Hi, I hope you don't mind I replaced the references you added today to the pencil article. I read the ones you provided and felt that they were derived one from Petrosky (the article cited him as the main reference) and the other was, well, not a a very authoritative one. I used Petrosky himself, and links to the web sites of the manufacturers of pencils, including a video from Staedtler that shows how the leads are made.Dmgerman 08:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you wanted to dig in that book, that's your call. Having read it long ago, I still have it on my shelves, but it's not exactly my main interest on WP.  Good work.  Denimadept 11:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

New York City Meetup
The agenda for the next meetup includes the formation of a Wikimedia New York City local chapter. Hope to see you there!--Pharos 20:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the thought, but I've other things much closer to home that need doing, such as taking more pictures for my existing Wikipedia projects. Thanks anyway. - Denimadept 22:34, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're interested in New England, there is a group that has been meeting at Meetup/Boston. I think the last time they met was in August, but it's hard to tell exactly; their information doesn't seem to have been updated recently.--Pharos 23:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Norwottuck Rail Trail Bridge
As Orange Mike said, external links aren't really appropriate in the inline text of an article, but I've added the company into the External links section. I may create the article at some point, considering my roommate just got an internship with them and could probably contribute significantly. GlassCobra 21:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * If that happens, feel free. I used an external link because I wanted it to add value and there wasn't an existing article.  I'll be doing something soon about R.F. Hawkins Iron Works, which is turning up in a whole bunch of bridges around New England.  I'll want to coordinate it somehow, maybe with an article containing a list of the projects they worked on, since I don't think the company is still around as such.  I haven't yet started the research on that. - Denimadept 21:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Research Project
Hi Denimadept,

I'm an undergrad writing my senior thesis on wikipedia community dynamics and their effect on article creation. I'd love to interview you, if possible! Please send me an e-mail from my user page or leave me a note on my User Talk page if you're interested in participating.

Jkomoros 16:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Where is the other "Bollman Truss" bridge?
See Talk:Bollman Truss Railroad Bridge. &mdash; Eoghanacht  talk 18:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Mount Tom
With regard to ruins on the mountain, there are foundations on Mount Tom (Mount Tom Hotel) and walls and foundations on Mount Nonotuck, just north of Mount Tom (Erye House). --Pgagnon999 (talk) 03:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

J.A. Skinner State Park
According to the state of Massachusetts, the name of the park is "J.A. Skinner State Park."[1] Although J.A. Skinner the person is Joseph Allan Skinner, J.A. Skinner the park is J.A. Skinner State Park. Or so the state says. For a parallel, let's say someone names a company after himself, using his initials, not his full name. "J.J. Doe, Inc." Although his name is John James Doe, that's not the legal name or actual name of the corporation. What say you?--Pgagnon999 (talk) 23:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:J._A._Skinner_State_Park"
 * I say nebbermind... :-d - Denimadept (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Mountain Farms Mall
I have nominated Mountain Farms Mall, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Mountain Farms Mall. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

From your discussion at WikiProject Shopping Centers
(commentary copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Shopping Centers) Both Hampshire Mall, which I modified heavily yesterday, and my new article Mountain Farms Mall from yesterday are being proposed for deletion. Why the user didn't suggest or make improvements, I don't know. At this point, the articles need votes to prevent them being deleted. Help? - Denimadept (talk) 15:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't canvass for votes. Also, AfD is a consensus, not a vote. If you get six "keep"s and five "delete"s, but the "keep"s are all giving weak arguments such as "oh please, don't delete this article, it's very important", then the "delete" will be considered consensus. As for improvements, I did suggest some. For Hampshire Mall, I said: "It has to be the subject of several reliable third-party sources, which doesn't seem to be the case here"; I will elaborate that point in the AfD discussion itself. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 16:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Hampshire and Mountain Farms
I'm moving this discussion from the AfD pages so it doesn't get too cluttered.
 * Your actions speak louder than your words. By moving for deletion, you're saying that this article can not be improved, you are unwilling to let anyone try, and that consensus is likely to be for deletion, or you wouldn't have bothered to make that effort.  If that's not what you meant to say, you should consider not making AfD proposals so quickly in future.  For this and whatever other articles on which you've already made that suggestion, it's too late.  You can vote "keep", but you can't retroactively remove the AfD motion, as I understand it.  - Denimadept (talk) 18:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You're being awfully accusing of me, and maybe just this side of a personal attack on me. I never said that nobody could improve the article; on the contrary, I'm more than willing to let anyone try. As it stands, Hampshire Mall and Mountain Farms Mall are two pages that I happened to nominate because they did not assert notability in any way (see WP:N, WP:V), which is a perfectly valid reason to nominate a page for deletion (see WP:DEL). Just because I list an article at AfD doesn't mean that I'm hell bent on getting it deleted; it just means that I think it should be deleted. Others may or may not agree with me, but that's just the way it goes. There's always a chance that a page can survive AfD -- sometimes, pages do get improved greatly during an AfD discussion. While I don't think that Hampshire Mall and Mountain Farms Mall are hopelessly irreperable, the future doesn't look too good for those two pages. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 18:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * "The project they're part of says that such are notable." Please show me where it says that. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 19:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Further discussion
I can understand your defense of the articles that I've nominated, and I can see how you can think of them as being "wasted effort". But it's not so much me saying that the pages are unsuitable; rather, the articles have Wikipedia policy stacked against them. You said, "What we've got here is a difference of opinion on the meaning of "notable"." Please refer to WP:N, our official policy on notability, which clearly states: "A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." But that's not enough -- the page also has to actually include the sources too. I've shown you Genesee Valley Center as an example; note how six different reliable sources actually contain in-depth coverage of the mall. You're more than welcome to fix the articles I've nominated if you want; I'd rather see you at least try to improve an article instead of simply defending the article and making false accusations of me. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 19:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for creating and helping to save the mall articles from deletion
I appreciate very much your efforts in documenting various aspects of the pioneer valley. It's wondeful that you campaigned to save so many of the mall articles especially Hampshire Mall and Mountain Farms Mall. Love or hate them, they are an integral part of life in the pioneer valley. Sprew (talk) 18:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: South Park
According to WP:CITE, it isn't mandatory to use the cite book template, and the plain text I used shows up the same way in the article. The only changes I actually made were adding the ISBN and capitalizing the author's last name. --Brandt Luke Zorn (talk) 23:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

List of crossings of the Willamette River
This change which you made to List of crossings of the Willamette River (Fix coords. These are all in the western hemisphere, but they weren't appearing that way before) puzzles me because I've used them extensively to look at the maps. What in the previous revision makes you say they weren't western hemisphere? —EncMstr 23:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * When I hovered over their links, the expected URL displayed showed "East" as the hemisphere. I maybe misunderstood and the negative values took care of that, but I'm just used to specifying.  If it works the way you had it, feel free to undo.  I did make some other changes though. - Denimadept (talk) 04:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

List of crossings of the Danube River
I responded on the talk page. Also, I accidentally edited your sandbox once in the confusion of looking at both pages. Sorry about that! See the talk page though. --DerRichter (talk) 22:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh the only other thing I saw that could maybe be changed with the format is that at some places, there are comments about the height and length of bridges, such as the first bridge, the longest bridge, highest, etc. Should we make a new column for that? Sorry for not keeping this discussion in one place. --DerRichter (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been told that if there is additional information about a crossing, it should be in the article for that crossing. I'm not sure what to do if there's only a little blurb, not enough for a whole article. - Denimadept (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Vermont
I came here expecting to put a test1 on the page! Brian Dubie is a Republican in Vermont. If you want a reference I suppose I can get it or you can check his bio. Student7 (talk) 01:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Bridge Importance
I gave it a high because it is going to be a replacement bridge for the bridge that collasped. --Trulystand700 (talk) 02:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess then we can give a different rating --Trulystand700 (talk) 02:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Slovenian bridges at AfD
Thank you for the comments you posted at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Slovenia. Because of the way AfD pages appear at Articles for deletion/Log/2008 March 25, your comments at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Slovenia will not be visible to other editors who view the AfDs at Articles for deletion/Log/2008 March 25. Please consider copying and pasting your comments into each of the Slovenian bridge AfDs. Thank you again for taking time to consider these articles. --Eastmain (talk) 21:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. I've also adapted the text in that answer to the main WikiProject Bridges article.  No one has deleted it yet. - Denimadept (talk) 21:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Dragon Bridge
Hi, can you please assess the article. Thanks.  Otolemur crassicaudatus  (talk) 07:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This is a nice article! I would suggest copying the length and such measurements to the infobox, and adding coordinates for the bridge as well.  Maybe add a caption for the picture to explain just what we're looking at?  It looks to me like one of the anchors of the bridge, yes? - Denimadept (talk) 12:19, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Linzer Pforte
It pretty much means gate of Linz. You can probably make the section just titled "Linz" because I dont think the Linzer Pforte is really an official thing. The format looks good, though. --DerRichter (talk) 02:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It'd be helpful if you might format things like that so I could include them, if they're a place to include, or remove them if they're not. - Denimadept (talk) 05:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Cornish-Windsor bridge
Thanks very much for pointing that out! --Ken Gallager (talk) 17:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hadley Corner
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Hadley Corner, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of Hadley Corner. — BradV 18:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Hadley Corner
I have nominated Hadley Corner, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Hadley Corner. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. — BradV 18:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed that you haven't edited the article since I nominated it for deletion. Generally, the best way to get an article kept is to continue to edit it and provide third-party references that establish notability. Some people are under the impression that it is bad form to edit an article while it is under discussion, and I think that you should know that nothing is further from the truth. Cheers. — BradV 05:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm quite aware of that. Note what I posted to that other guy yesterday.  The person I mentioned back at the beginning of this AfD doesn't seem to have responded by helping with this article. Sigh. - Denimadept (talk) 13:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellence
Sorry I couldn't be more help- Im goin on a wikibreak but will be back this summer. --DerRichter (talk) 18:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

WoWWiki
I both disagree and agree. Driving viewers to WoWWiki will serve both them and Wikipedia better in the long run; however, I also believe that such a blatant link is very much against the spirit of WP:EL, which is why there is a link at the bottom, rather than the top. I'm sure you'll accuse me of double standards (it was I that suggested the in-article WoWWiki links be used =), but something doesn't feel quite right about making the announcement at the top that they should be at WoWWiki and not Wikipedia for their information. --Izno (talk) 08:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This isn't a commercial service. On the one hand, we keep saying that we don't want to put in-universe stuff in the article.  On the other hand, you're saying we don't want to point in-universe people to the information they want so they will stop inserting it in this project.  Double-standard isn't it.  Unclear on what you want is closer. - Denimadept (talk) 12:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Nay; there's a fine line to be walked. I'm sure we could throw everything in that manner out the window and do what we would with the article, but then I'm positive WoW would lose it's tenuous GA status. It's something that will probably be solved should the article be strengthened in other manners, so I hope that Gaz decides to work on his draft of the article at some point. Again, I think the link at the bottom serves its purpose, plus the links within the article... If I had the time, I'd have a go at it, but between my work at said wiki and RL... :/. Plus, it's harder writing something about which you know so much in a manner to appeal to those who know not so much, as well as the citations... If only Wikipedia allowed "the Truth". Keke. --Izno (talk) 12:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Wiki users apparently can't handle "the Truth". :-D - Denimadept (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Touche. ;) --Izno (talk) 12:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As a semi-pertinent question in curiousity, do you edit there? --Izno (talk) 22:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Not on WoWwiki, no. - Denimadept (talk) 22:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Wetman
Thanks for your support about User:Wetman. Do you think that we should put in a wikiettiquette alert or something? It isn't so much for my sake that I'd want him to change his behavior, its the fact that he might drive off new editors, given that he also writes very patronizing edit summaries when he changes edits done by other people. (I glanced over his contribs out of curiousity) Asarelah (talk) 16:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This problem is why I've been watching his page, as you may have read in the big entry earlier on his Talk page. I've not heard of a "wikiettiquette" alert before.  Is this a real thing?  If not, is there some way to report the problem? - Denimadept (talk) 16:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Its under Wikiquette alerts, go have a look. We could also try going to Editor assistance first and see what a third editor thinks about the issue.Asarelah (talk) 17:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll check out that article. Meanwhile, I did ask User:Polaron to check out what was happening, and he did in fact intervene, but your answer is certainly a better general bet. - Denimadept (talk) 17:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've checked it out. That's an interesting way to address issues.  While I'd prefer to address it with him privately, you and I and others have tried that without success.  Let's try this and see if other editors can help him understand how he's coming across. - Denimadept (talk) 20:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have filed a Wikiquette alert in regards to Wetman's behavior here Your input on the issue would probably be helpful. Asarelah (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Warcraft Taskforce
Hi, I've noticed your contributions on World of Warcraft and I'd like to ask if you'd be interested in helping out at WikiProject Video games/Warcraft. It's hoped to form a centralised discussion about all things Warcraft related in order to improve the quality of our articles. If you'd be interested, please feel free to sign up! Many thanks, Gazimoff (talk) 09:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Bedell Covered Bridge
'Course it does ;)

Thanks for the kind words. --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 19:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Jackson Covered Bridge
Hi! I spotted your revert and edit summary comment. I did read the talk page details before I placed the edit. The other two bridges which are mentioned are apparently listed as pedestrian use only. The JCB is a daily use traffic road bridge, note the extra details I placed on the article about its location on the county road. I took a look at it with Windows Virtual Earth and also the additional photo gallery link I placed on the article. Those indicate it is suitable, at least, for light domestic and commercial traffic. I assumed that would qualify it for replacing the comment about it being the longest one in daily use. Richard Harvey (talk) 17:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I'm going to have to back up my words with acts. I'll go check out the Cornish-Windsor Covered Bridge this weekend, weather permitting, and see what they have.  Meanwhile, the book being used as a reference for the JCB does not claim it's the longest in the country, but only in the county.  I checked.  If properly qualified, the JCB could be the longest something, but we'll have to be careful which weasel words we use. :-D  - Denimadept (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Make Love, Not Warcraft
Yes, I thought it was speculation and POV. It happens to be a POV that I share... ;) But just because something is true that doesn't mean we can add it.  Unfortunately.  Another tact to go with in that article, which I've considered doing, is just deleting all the little "bloopers" as being unencyclopedic and a violation of Television_episodes.  Do we really need to know which parts of the episode didn't fit with the actual WoW game?  I'd say no.  If it bugs you so much, start up a discussion on the article's talk page, and assuming nobody objects saying how important it is to the article you can probably just delete all that stuff with those reasons. --  At am a chat 23:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Hadley Corner
I have nominated Hadley Corner, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Hadley Corner&. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 13:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Completely out of the blue ...
It's something I've wondered since moving from the Valley, but since you mention it in the Hadley Corners AfD, is the bison farm still in business? Their website went dark years ago ...  RGTraynor  15:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, yes, it's still in business. They put up new fencing a few years ago.  They seem to have leased out some of their land to other interests in at least a temporary way.  How the Lowes thing will go is anyone's guess. - Denimadept (talk) 18:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much
Thanks for your congrats on Cogan House Covered Bridge and your comments on the WikiProject Bridges talk page and an edit you made to it a while ago. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

iPhone
Thanks for your support back there. While JCDenton2052 goes on about separate articles--and we need to treat everyone with respect and fairness, don't get me wrong--how about you help me be bold and improve iPhone instead of just talking about it? iPhone 3G is overrun by anons; how about we show what a stable, comprehensive article can do? It would be the best way to build an argument.--HereToHelp (talk to me) 22:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

List of crossings of the Cuyahoga River
I-80, I-271, and I-480 (in opposite directions) are definitely different crossings (spans/structures). (i.e. wide "air gap" between the Eastbound and Westbound or Northsound and Southbound spans)

While they may be located in relatively close proximity, they are definitely different crossings from a bridges point of view. They can have different years of construction, different heights or lengths, ...

I am a little less sure about the other divided highways I-71/90, I-77, I-490, Rt.2; I plan on double-checking my work.

While I understand your interpretation of "crossings" to mean for some intended purpose, like: highway (both spans), pedestrian, pipeline, rail, ... "Crossings" in a broader sense also means those "under" the Cuyahoga River and not only those above it? So I am limiting it to "crossings over" and by separate structures (i.e. divided highway bridges when they are separate)

I was going to try to populate some of the missing fields, like clarifying: draw/lift/swing bridges, Built, ... which railroad line owns/uses each rail bridge.

With regard to "Built": original construction, re-built, or both? A few of the bridges were disassembled down to their foundations/piers and superstructure or decking was replaced. LeheckaG (talk) 11:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, if there are tunnels, those would count. Another of these articles I've worked on is List of crossings of the Charles River, which has some tunnels.  There has been some input that "crossings" means "for humans" so that pipelines don't count.  I certainly never include wire crossings, but pipelines are more visible and I was trying to get across the idea of how busy this river is, especially in the immediate Cleveland area.


 * WRT my original issue, it's true that you could well know more about these crossings than me. I haven't lived in Shaker Heights, Ohio since 1977, and made this list by using Yahoo/Google maps.  As you say, sometimes two directions can be very different, cf the Tacoma Narrows Bridges, especially the one which opened last year. - Denimadept (talk) 13:33, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, regarding built/rebuilt, I've usually added a "built" date if either the bridge was completely replaced or if it was effectively completely replaced. Normal redecking doesn't count, nor does major work which doesn't replace, say, the entire superstructure.  My opinion, of course.  The Calvin Coolidge Bridge, in my area, underwent major refurbishment and widening earlier this decade.  I don't count the bridge as replaced, as it's the same structure with a lot of replacement steel.  On the other hand, its predecessor washed away in 1936, and the "new" bridge is a completely different structure, so that's a new bridge, on the same site.


 * Even so, a replacement bridge doesn't have to be on the exact same site. The current Memorial Bridge (Massachusetts) was built slightly downstream of its predecessor, after which the old covered bridge was removed.  It's the "same" bridge because it's the same function and because the people who built it consider it the same bridge.  Consider it a closely related bridge, in order to not mess up the two meanings of "same".  "same" as in "identical" and "same" as in "function", you see.  If you look on Google Maps, you'll see two "Bridge Streets", one on either side of the Connecticut River slightly upstream of the current bridge, where the old bridge used to be.


 * Then there are instances of major bridges. I attacked the Tay Bridge a while back to clarify its infobox as to the dates for its two incarnations.  Same site, similar structures, definitely different bridges even though some of the same steel was used for the newer one.  It's a fuzzy issue, honestly. - Denimadept (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I have been treating "built" as the earliest date range when a "named" bridge of the same architecture was built on the "same" site (with some leeway), and saying "rebuilt:" if and only if they tore everything down to the foundations/piers (as opposed to re-decking, etc.).


 * Hmmm, on "wire crossings": Actually in Ohio and Alaska (and elsewhere) there are several "wire" crossings intended to transport humans over rivers (not sure if there might be any on the upper Cuyahoga River)?
 * On "divided highway" bridges: like Valley View Bridge or I-480 Bridge (the latter article should be merged into the former); I believe there should be just one Wiki article, but it should clearly specify that they are two distinct bridges (as determined by the architect/engineer/builder/maintainer). Both common and different specifications should be pointed out.  On lists, they should identified as separate bridges (pointing to the same article) - provided they really are two distinct separate bridges (different National Bridge ID #s, ability to pass some solid object between them no matter how small, i.e. no inter-ties).  I am sure about the divided highway bridges farther South, less sure about the ones closer to the Lake, but I will verify and update as appropriate.
 * I noticed a few abandoned/former listings, is the intent to include previous crossings if known or historically significant (or if they might get rebuilt in the future)? Many are of historical significance, like: the former rail draw bridge between the Main avenue and Center street bridges, and the Peninsula Aqueduct which carried the Ohio and Erie Canal over the Cuyahoga River.  The later was a very unique crossing, and an engineering "marvel" (wood planking over steel truss superstructure on cut-stone foundations) when you consider the forces exerted by the depth and width of the volume of water in the canal, plus the additional "dynamic" weight of canal boats and flowing water in the canal. Specifically, I was unsure about adding a few bridges which were of historical significance (Central Viaduct, Main Street "low level" bridge, ...), but I am not sure that even their foundations/piers can be found any more? Peninsula Aqueduct on the other hand, might be something which the National Park Service would re-build, similar to their current Tinkers Creek Aqueduct re-building (there were also Furnace Run and Mill Creek aqueducts, but the later three all crossed over Cuyahoga River tributaries; whereas Peninsula Aqueduct actually cross the Cuyahoga River itself). LeheckaG (talk) 15:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I see the Valley View Bridge as one bridge. Both elements were built at the same time, according to the data in this article, and each supports traffic in one direction, so taken together, they are one bridge.  Note that the VVB article refers to a single bridge consisting of a pair of bridges.  It works that way in some domains.  For instance, a transmission "line" may consist of many sets of wires carried over parallel sets of towers, but the line is considered singular even though it has some number-greater-than-one quantity of elements.  Separation isn't relevant.


 * Then there's bridges like Meiko Nishi Ohashi roadway bridges, an article I created a few weeks ago, where there are two effectively identical bridges, built in parallel, but 12 years apart. My source refers to them in the plural.  The Tacoma Narrows bridges I mentioned earlier are similar also, but are definitely referred to as plural (1940 (collapsed), 1950, and 2007 bridges).  I just don't agree that the VVB fits that description.


 * The "wire crossings" you mention sound more like a transporter bridge rather than what I meant, which is transmission lines going over the river.


 * If I included abandoned bridges, it's because they're still there in some fashion. I only included stuff I could see using the satellite photography.  It's possible I saw abutments or piers in the river, such as at Suffield and Thompsonville Bridge, which if you look at the coordinates is just a set of piers in the river at this time.  Then there's bridges like Enfield-Suffield Covered Bridge which is rather less obvious than the STB, but my source for those two bridges described them both, and had postcard imagery for them as well, which helped.  Or fun topics like Bedell Covered Bridge, which had a good story attached.


 * However, I'm not the only one who has added crossings. I can't speak to what others have added.  I don't remove such additions because I keep WP:Own in mind.  The fact that I created the article and gave it structure doesn't mean I own it.


 * I do take offense when I put a lot of effort into an article and some jerk AfD's it, but that's another issue entirely. - Denimadept (talk) 17:56, 24 June 2008 (UTC)