User talk:Dennis Bratland/Archive 17

Orphaned workpage?
Should Talk:Cleveland_CycleWerks/Workpage be deleted now? — Brianhe (talk) 17:51, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep. I put a db-g7 tag on it. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:03, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry
I'm really, really, really sorry. I think that is officially my low point on Wikipedia. I think the humiliation will serve as a lesson. – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 17:57, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's all good. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:27, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Iron Horsemen Logo
Our club would please ask that no one else place our logo on this website! Thank you it has become a problem of the wrong people using this logo to cause us some issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1002:B117:4E9C:E8FA:254:F812:DC5E (talk) 03:59, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The use of logos is allowed under Fair use. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Morbidelli V8
Technically we aren't supposed to put categories on redirect pages (I got schwacked for this at John Spartan and a couple others).. I'd like to make a separate page for it. There's already enough information for a stub, and a few other easy to find references like a Motorcycle Classics article. Before starting, do you have materials in your personal library that state the actual name of this bike? It looks like it might be Morbidelli 850. — Brianhe (talk) 21:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * There's quite a few redirects in other motorcycle categories. They show up in italic on the category page. It's too bad, because it encourages creating needless stubs, even when merging topics, as with Morbidelli, creates a more coherent article. Doesn't Categorizing redirects and Categorizing redirects allow this? Because Morbidelli is not a motorcycle, it's a company, so it doesn't belong in the catefory; Morbidelli V8 belongs in the category. As with the Wile E. Coyote example, a subtopic of Wile E. Coyote and The Road Runner.  --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really know, but I was pointed at this policy at Categorizing redirects: "Most redirects should not be placed in article categories." However the guy who had an issue with it was sufficiently disruptive that he's now blocked, so maybe not something to worry about it for now. — Brianhe (talk) 22:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Re-reading the guidelines, I agree with you that Categorizing redirects categorization should be the controlling guideline for Morbidelli V8. Disregard this comment, and we can deal with it if and when somebody disagrees. — Brianhe (talk) 22:33, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Curtiss V-8 motorcycle?
What do you think of this? "Did you know that the same motor that made Glenn Curtiss famous as "the fastest man alive" on his V-8 motorcycle also powered the first aircraft to publically demonstrate heavier-than-air flight in America?" — Brianhe (talk) 20:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


 * That's good. You have to say engine, not motor, or some pedant will get all in a bunch.For me the most extraordinary facts are that it was a V-8, and that the record was widely publicized and accepted as legitimate, even though it was "unofficial". Meaning that the first "official" record was slower, and didn't break Curtiss's record for 30 years. Giving the surprising graph that goes up and then down and then up again. Perhaps DYK that "... Glenn Curtiss became "the fastest man alive" for going faster than anything on land, sea or air on a motorcycle with an aircraft V-8 engine, setting an unofficial record that stood for 30 years ?" It's |194 characters. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:49, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds pretty good, I'll work on it later. Going out to enjoy the sunshine now :) By the way I'm also starting User:Brianhe/Bub 7 streamliner if you want to jump in. —Brianhe (talk) 21:51, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Nominated: Template:Did you know nominations/Curtiss V-8 motorcycle. I included the picture used in the article. Brianhe (talk) 01:15, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

In case you missed it, the nom was accepted and the article is in queue. I believe it should be on the front page at 9 am local time tomorrow, although without the picture. Brianhe (talk) 22:34, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool beans. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Vincent Black Lightning
Oops! My mistake, sorry. If you want to create a disamb page, that's fine with me. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Bub 7 streamliner
I'll probably promote User:Brianhe/Bub 7 streamliner to article later today. If you want to have a chance to look at it, critique, make amendments, go ahead. — Brianhe (talk) 16:39, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Infringement Banner
Hi! I noticed the infringement banner that was added to User:SammyBoy82/sandbox today. I believe that he is doing a school project which involves Wikipedia and meant no harm. I'll straighten out the situation! Thanks for notifying! Deneille Rochelle (talk) 22:51, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * SammyBoy82 can find several editors who are happy to answer questions and offer advice an motorcycling articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling. But no copy-paste, of course! Cheers! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:13, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

User:Shnmr93/sandbox
Declined your speedy deletion tag — I checked several source pages, and none of them appeared to have the text that they were being used to cite. Did you mean "Each piece of text on this page is taken from the page that it uses as a source", or did you mean something else? If the former, please show more clearly what you mean; and if the latter, please explain what you do mean. Nyttend (talk) 05:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * One page was archived:
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 * --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:38, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and sorry for the confusion; I've deleted the page and included a diff link to this thread in the summary. Nyttend (talk) 15:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Curtiss V-8 motorcycle
Allen3 talk 17:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Motorcycle land-speed record date issue
Just noticed this issue. In the introductory prose, the article seems to say Ack-Attack took the record on 25 November 2010, but the table says 25 September. Is this a misquote or am I missing something? Likely to get high attention today as it is linked from the front page DYK section. — Brianhe (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

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Great American Wiknic for Seattle in June
Howdy! I would like to invite you to again join with a local edition of the Great American Wiknic this June :) Also, please add any preliminary details to Wiknic.--Pharos (talk) 17:22, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Dennis
Hey there, I saw you tagged National Marine Fisheries Service as "needing a photo", how crazy becasue I literally just found some pictures of them working that were taken by the USAF. Needless to say I promptly uploaded them to Commons (since they are in the public domain after all) and added them to the article. Cheers! —  - dain   omite    02:39, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. I just noticed the section on Dale Jones Jr in that article has a rather strident tone. Probably should be written so that those who think Mr. Jones is the devil incarnate should have those opinions attributed to them, rather than treated as accepted fact. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:56, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, yeah I hadn't read that part. —  - dain   omite    04:37, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

HD
Would you kindly explain this edit. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't bother, I got it. Actually I clicked on the Motorcycle links and didn't find mention of India in the articles, I ought to have checked the company link, I am removing the pipes so that we don't have others making the same mistake. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:28, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * OK. H-D has cultivated a jingoistic image since the 1980s or so, when it suited them, but you can see that they have worked internationally going far back in their history, having multiple Italian subsidiaries at different times, and the India expansion was preceded by manufacturing in Brazil, and under license in Japan before WWII. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 14:51, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't know yet whether the bikes are actually assembled and sold in India, the article simply refers to plans. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 16:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, we do know. CKD assembly began in 2011 . There are 9 dealerships. Harley-Davidson and Harley-Davidson India need to be updated a little, but the plans mentioned in the articles were executed as announced. Currently 6 models are completely built in India and there are plans to increase that number to 9. Three more models are imported to India. Even before the dealerships opened, the wealthy in India could buy H-D's at a 110% tariff.In my opinion, if you come across a Wikipedia article on a topic you're unfamiliar with, you should not be so quick to start wholesale deletions until you have read the Wikipedia articles, and done a quick Google search. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:45, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
 * "Wholesale deletions"? Where? Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:20, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Removing the entire H-D section from the India template. I'm not sure I see the purpose of this discussion. Why not put this effort into updating the two articles in question? They were last updated in 2010 so there's 3 years of developments that need to be added. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:24, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Haven't we gone forward from my template delete? Why bring that up again? The issue isn't whether HD's can be bought in India but whether they are put together in India. The fact is they are. For example: A woman bought a HD in Hyderabad the first one there and the second in India to do so made news. The history section has too much weight, we need to shrink it. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 05:00, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Mamas & the Papas
Dennis, you removed my contribution re Mamas & Papas. Perhaps I should not have titled it ==Legacy==, but rather ==Trivia==, which it what it is - information that is not important, but adds a lighter side. Many articles have a section called ==In popular xxx== or ==In fiction==, etc, which include information such as this. It was a perfectly valid entry. Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * See Manual of Style/Trivia sections and "In popular culture" content. Pop culture/trivia/misc sections are not perfectly valid; they are highly dubious at best. Such content is discouraged because its relevance to the article subject is unknown, or nonexistent. It's fine to go to The Mamas and the Papas and write where they got their name. But does that affect Hells Angles? Maybe. All you need is one single independent source which tells us that the Mamas and the Papas name choice affected the Hells Angles in some meaningful way. If not even one source has ever said that, then what is the point? What does it mean? If it's meaningless, then it's unencyclopedic.I'd recommend proposing an addition at Talk:Hells Angels and seeing what other editors think. If consensus supports it, who am I to stand in the way? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 17:34, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In hindsight, you are right - it is not particularly noteworthy - perhaps if the had called themselves "Hells Mamas & Papas", there would be a more substantive connection. Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 14:06, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

James Stewart Jr
Hi Dennis. Odd that we should 'meet' again so soon after the Mamas & the Papas. Some IP has been doing some vandalism on themes that I work with (not motorcycles), so I checked some of his other edits. I am talking about user IP 62.242.1.150. I see he added a substantially large amount of text [] to James Steward Jr, while at the same times he has made a number of unconstructive edits such as [] on the same page. I have no knowledge of the subject and seeing that you have visited the page thought you might be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. The user has a long record of warnings []. I am mindlful of the fact that it could be a shared IP. Thanks, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 11:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Was just bored looking around & saw this... While I agree that it could be a shared IP, and there has been a long gap between the previous vandalism in late 2011 (and indeed ANY contribution from that IP of any kind) and now, it's very strange that this significant amount of seemingly good faith text was added to the article from the same IP as the vandalism to same article. the MO of the vandal appears very similar to the previous malicious edits done from this IP so at the very least I'd suggest it requires a warning of some sort. I don't know if the IP has ever been blocked before now as I haven't yet read all of it's talk page posts, but perhaps a 48hr would be appropriate to show the vandal that previous "work" hasn't been simply forgotten? I say this because I feel that this may be the start of a flurry of malicious edits from this IP, as has happened before. Anyway, you know I'm new to WP and not completely au-fait with procedures so I'll leave it to others to decide but just throwing my thoughts out there. XJ750E-IIbloke (talk) 13:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi XJ750E-IIbloke, according to the log, this IP has never been blocked. But like I said before, has had many warnings. Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 15:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Aah yes, I see how to check now! perhaps a short block would be more appropriate than yet another warning if any more vandalism is done by this IP then.XJ750E-IIbloke (talk) 20:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I try to revert obvious vandalism on pages like James Stewart, Jr., but for the most part I don't try to overthink it. All of these guys in extreme sports have legions of 11-13 year old fans who perpetually vandalize the articles. Often you see kids vandalizing during their lunch hour at school, and other kids at the same IP will revert. Some day I might try to seriously work on improving this page or Ryan Villopoto or Brian Deegan (rider) to make them easier to maintain, but for me it's not as high a priority as 25-30 other motorcycling related articles I have hopes of bringing up to a higher standard.I'd love to see all the extreme sports bios page protected. It would save a lot of pointless reverting. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Thomas Messer
Messer died today. I added info from the NYT obit, but if you have time, see if there is anything else to add. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

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Motorcycle frame
I am at a loss to understand your revision of 14:48, 27 May 2013‎. Surely my legend to the Triton is more informative than the half -baked "steel framed Norton Triton" you have reverted to? Norton Triton?! Call it a tubular steel featherbed frame if you like, but don't just dumb it down. Your comment: "Triumph Trophy has a tubular spine frame" leaves me nonplussed. No-one has mentioned a Trophy!! I merely deleted the Honda cub reference as it in NOT an example of a pressed steel frame. And why restore the Pressed definition to the "the frame is mass-produced by sheet metal pressed or stamped into shape. Typically a single-cradle structure is used", which is plainly incorrect. A pressed frame virtually never has a single cradle structure (and though often mass produced) is not inevitably so. Arrivisto (talk) 17:35, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The Super Cub is an example of a pressed steel frame because that's exactly what the sources say. I cited one but if you want me to cite ten I will be happy to do so. Sources. Sources. Sources. Wikipedia content is not opinions, conjectures or original research. I just look at the sources and follow them. Simple. The sources say the Cub has a pressed steel frame. The sources say the Triumph Trophy has a tubular steel spine, which is obviously not similar to the Super Cub. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:11, 27 May 2013 (UTC)