User talk:Deor/Archive29

Administrators' newsletter – July 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2021).

Administrator changes
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 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg AGK • Eliz81 • Mulad • ThaddeusB • Vianello • Who
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Interface administrator changes
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CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg AGK • DGG

Oversighter changes
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Guideline and policy news
 * Consensus has been reached to delete all books in the book namespace. There was rough consensus that the deleted books should still be available on request at WP:REFUND even after the namespace is removed.
 * An RfC is open to discuss the next steps following a trial which automatically applied pending changes to TFAs.

Technical news
 * IP addresses of unregistered users are to be hidden from everyone. There is a rough draft of how IP addresses may be shown to users who need to see them. This currently details allowing administrators, checkusers, stewards and those with a new usergroup to view the full IP address of unregistered users. Editors with at least 500 edits and an account over a year old will be able to see all but the end of the IP address in the proposal. The ability to see the IP addresses hidden behind the mask would be dependent on agreeing to not share the parts of the IP address they can see with those who do not have access to the same information. Accessing part of or the full IP address of a masked editor would also be logged. Comments on the draft are being welcomed at the talk page.

Arbitration
 * The community authorised COVID-19 general sanctions have been superseded by the COVID-19 discretionary sanctions following a motion at a case request. Alerts given and sanctions placed under the community authorised general sanctions are now considered alerts for and sanctions under the new discretionary sanctions.

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ArchiveSent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:26, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 8 July 2021 (UTC)+

Paper Doll
You ok? I got more info and references if we need. Also scan of Decca label, what do you think?

Chart performance

 * I'm just fine. Note that if you want to use the label image in the article, you'll have to upload it (to Wikipedia itself, not to Commons) as a non-free image—like File:Coasters searchin3.jpg, for instance. I've never uploaded a non-free image myself, but I believe the procedure for doing so at File Upload Wizard is fairly intuitive. You may find Template:Album rationale and Template:Non-free use rationale album cover of use (they're for more than just pictorial album covers). Deor (talk) 17:45, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

I just did one successfully for Pistol Packin' Mama. Check out the page, I did an overhaul. Next, I am going to make some new pages for records/songs that I feel should have one. And no stub pages allowed for me! haha.Tillywilly17 (talk) 18:07, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

I will upload the scan for Paper Doll and we'll see how it goes. It looks good.

Sweet, all done. I need to supply references for the chart table.Tillywilly17 (talk) 18:35, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

One problem at bottom Categories: 1915 songs 1943 songs   <<< should be 1942 songs, not 1943.
 * OK, I changed the category with this edit. Deor (talk) 20:33, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2021).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg BusterD
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Kees08 • Nickshanks • Protonk • Schissel • Ultraexactzz • Wknight94



CheckUser changes
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Oversighter changes
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Guideline and policy news
 * An RfC is open to add a delay of one week from nomination to deletion for G13 speedy deletions.

Technical news
 * Last week all wikis were very slow or not accessible for 30 minutes. This was due to server lag caused by regenerating dynamic lists on the Russian Wikinews after a large bulk import.

Arbitration
 * Following an amendment request, the committee has clarified that the Talk page exception to the 500/30 rule in remedy 5 of the Palestine-Israel articles 4 case does not apply to requested move discussions.

Miscellaneous
 * You can vote for candidates in the 2021 Board of Trustees elections from 4 August to 17 August. Four community elected seats are up for election.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:18, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

That Silver-Haired Daddy of Mine
Boss, I need your help on fixing up this page, no rush at all. This song was recorded in 1931, but it is designated as 1935. I re-formatted page, correctly I believe, but I am still green at this level, so take a quick look. I made some command decisions on what to keep and what to remove. Getting ready to upload pic as final major edit. ThanksTillywilly17 (talk) 07:01, 8 August 2021 (UTC) Please remove stub notice if ok
 * I did a bit of copyediting on the text (didn't copyedit or check the refs). I think that the last two sentences in the "Lyrics" section, which are speculative and interpretive, could use a ref. Also note that the infobox refers to a release on the Melotone label that is mentioned nowhere in the text, which may be confusing to readers. (The infobox also seems to include details related to both the 1932 and later releases, which may be confusing. Perhaps confining the infobox info to just the 1932 release might be preferable.) Deor (talk) 16:14, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the great observations, I was thinking about deleting the Lyrics section, it is weak. Before I started, it was there along with 1935 stuff. I will edit add about MeltoneTillywilly17 (talk) 15:55, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Arthur Conan Doyle
You ought to check the talk page yourself. The nationality discussion has been reopened. A currently open question is, can someone provide a citation that Doyle considered himself British rather than Scottish or Irish, Consensus can change, and I haven't seen you participate in that new discussion. Skyerise (talk) 22:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Until a different consensus is established, the article should continue to call him British. I therefore reverted the IP's edit changing his nationality to Scottish. Deor (talk) 22:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I looked through the archives, it's a really weak consensus. He self-identified as Irish in his autobiography. Skyerise (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * MOS:CONTEXTBIO says that the lead should specify the "country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable". It specifically says that ethnicity "should generally not be in the lead", so whether or not Doyle considered himself ethnically Irish is immaterial. His life began in Scotland, and his literary work was produced in England, so that "British" seems the best designation. Deor (talk) 22:30, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Changes made on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danville,_Illinois
You reverted the changes I made asking for a source. This is the source https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/danvillecityillinois Doughboy1918 (talk) 14:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Doughboy1918}} When you update the population, you need to replace the reference currently in the population_footnotes field of the infobox with an updated one (and likewise wherever else in the article you change the figures). [[User:Deor|Deor (talk) 15:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2021).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Jake Wartenberg
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Emperor • Viridian Bovary
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →

Guideline and policy news
 * Feedback is requested on the Universal Code of Conduct enforcement draft by the Universal Code of Conduct Phase 2 drafting committee.
 * A RfC is open on whether to allow administrators to use extended confirmed protection on high-risk templates.
 * A discussion is open to decide when, if ever, should discord logs be eligible for removal when posted onwiki (including whether to oversight them)
 * A RfC on the next steps after the trial of pending changes on TFAs has resulted in a 30 day trial of automatic semi protection for TFAs.

Technical news
 * The Score extension has been re-enabled on public wikis. It has been updated, but has been placed in safe mode to address unresolved security issues. Further information on the security issues can be found on the mediawiki page.

Arbitration
 * A request for comment is in progress to provide an opportunity to amend the structure, rules, and procedures of the Arbitration Committee election and resolve any issues not covered by existing rules. Comments and new proposals are welcome.

Miscellaneous
 * The 2021 RfA review is now open for comments.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:44, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Witta
Hi! Six years ago, Witta (Widsith) was speedy deleted as duplicate of Witta, son of Wecta. Now, I know absolutely nothing about Germanic folklore, but Witta, son of Wecta is defined in its article as a ruler of the Juti, whereas Witta of the Widsith (according to that article) was a king of the Suebi (different tribes, different regions). It looks like they're different people. Or if it's actually the same person, then maybe the deleted title could be turned into a redirect instead? – Uanfala (talk) 00:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Witta (Widsith) wasn't speedily deleted as a duplicate, exactly. It was deleted as an article with no content, consisting as it did of no text whatever but containing a "reference" that was a complete copy of the Witta, son of Wecta article. As far as I know, no one's made a persuasive case for the identification "Widsith"s Witta with any known historical or legendary person, so I don't think a redirect would be in order, to say nothing of a separate article. (I think a case could be made that the article on the son of Wecta could also be dispensed with, since it lacks secondary sources.) Deor (talk) 16:09, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2021).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Blablubbs
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Alvestrand • Black Falcon • Deathphoenix • Dppowell • Mark Arsten • JGHowes (deceased)



Oversighter changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Callanecc
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Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Galobtter

Guideline and policy news
 * Following an RfC, extended confirmed protection may be used preemptively on certain high-risk templates.
 * Following a discussion at the Village Pump, there is consensus to treat discord logs the same as IRC logs. This means that discord logs will be oversighted if posted onwiki.

Technical news
 * DiscussionTools has superseded Enterprisey's reply-link script. Editors may switch using the "Discussion tools" checkbox under.

Arbitration
 * A motion has standardised the 500/30 (extended confirmed) restrictions placed by the Arbitration Committee. The standardised restriction is now listed in the Arbitration Committee's procedures.
 * Following the closure of the Iranian politics case, standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all edits about, and all pages related to, post-1978 Iranian politics, broadly construed.
 * The Arbitration Committee encourages uninvolved administrators to use the discretionary sanctions procedure in topic areas where it is authorised to facilitate consensus in RfCs. This includes, but is not limited to, enforcing sectioned comments, word/diff limits and moratoriums on a particular topic from being brought in an RfC for up to a year.

Miscellaneous
 * Editors have approved expanding the trial of Growth Features from 2% of new accounts to 25%, and the share of newcomers getting mentorship from 2% to 5%. Experienced editors are invited to add themselves to the mentor list.
 * The community consultation phase of the 2021 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process is open for editors to provide comments and ask questions to candidates.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:03, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

N by NW & "comedic"
Thank you for your comment in your edit summary "[quote] doesn't make it a 'comedic' film". I think this is something we should thresh out on the TALK page, and seek consensus. I made an entry there a couple of days ago in which I invited editors to discuss it before I added the word "comedic" it.

Well, I'm not going to edit-war, but I'm posting my reasons which I think justify calling the movie "comedic", and I invite you to join for discussion and consensus-seeking.

Thank you.

Best wishes, HandsomeMrToad (talk) 10:34, 3 October 2021 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: I've changed my mind; instead of going to the TALK page, I'll rephrase my characterization in a way which will better reflect the line in the source-article. No worries!  But if you disagree with my edit, let's TALK about it.  HandsomeMrToad (talk) 10:42, 3 October 2021 (UTC)


 * FURTHER UPDATE: Hello again. I am describing another source which I think justifies "comedic". My explanation is on the North by Northwest TALK page.  I'll wait a few days for some debate and consensus-seeking before I actually enter the edit.  I look forward to reading your input and suggestions, on the TALK page.


 * Best wishes, - HandsomeMrToad (talk) 22:23, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Marking long vowels for Classical Latin verse
I recently made a change to the article on “elegiac couplet” to mark the long vowels with macrons (overbars) in a sample of Latin verse. You reverted this change on the grounds that it was unnecessary and confusing, but I don’t think it’s either.

Regarding confusion, macrons are virtually universally used nowadays in Latin instruction, so most readers will be familiar with them. For those who aren’t, I added a link to the relevant Wikipedia article.

Regarding necessity, the distinction between long and short vowels is necessary for understanding Classical Latin meter, which relies on a contrast between long and short syllables (https://inter-versiculos.classics.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Irby-Basic-Meter-Guide.pdf). Without the macrons, it is impossible to tell which vowels are long without already having memorized them.

As a result, I think the change should be included, since it makes a meaningful contribution to the content without any significant downsides. Mhartl (talk) 16:44, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Macrons are indeed used in Latin instruction, but they basically never appear in Latin texts intended for proficient readers of Latin. Moreover, you added them in that section but not to the Latin quotations elsewhere in the article. By "potentially confusing" I meant that their presence might cause the casual reader to wonder such things as "Why is the last syllable of faciam long, even though the a is a short vowel" (since the article does not explain the difference between syllable length and vowel length), to say nothing of "Why is the ō in amo a long syllable, whereas the ō in nescio is a short one." All in all, I don't see that marking the vowel lengths is particularly helpful when what the meter involves is syllable lengths. Deor (talk) 18:07, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I certainly agree that macrons have not historically been included in more advanced texts, but there have been robust efforts in recent years to change this. In particular, there are many quite advanced modern Latinists who are challenging the notion that macrons are only for beginners.

I appreciate your perspective on poetic meter, but I think marking long vowels is especially important for understanding this case. While it’s true that questions about long-by-position might thereby be raised, as it currently stands there’s no way for the uninitiated to know why any of the syllables are long. Moreover, I think even many “proficient” readers of Latin do not in fact know where all the long vowels are, and so could not, e.g., correctly recite a poem like Horace’s Ode 37 without macrons.

I’m OK with keeping the reversion for some of the other reasons you mentioned (such as consistency throughout the article), but I also think it would be good for Wikipedia’s editors to consider moving in the direction of marking long vowels more often. They are exceptionally useful for beginners and are more useful for advanced students than is commonly recognized.

Mhartl (talk) 18:02, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended Protection Request
Help. You protected a page Extreme Obscenity to prevent disruptive editing. The page was deleted yesterday by an editor who then blocked the author of the page for disruptive editing. The editor in question does not appear to have contributed to the page or deletion discussion and ended it early after 2 days without giving an explanation. Are you able to rollback and extended protect the page from further vandalism? Regards 86.172.30.101 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 07:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No. An explanation was given in the close of of the deletion discussion, and any objection to the close is a matter for WP:DRV. I semiprotected the page to prevent the repeated and illegitimate removal of the AfD tag (by someone with a Scottish IP address similar to yours), not to prevent what you seem to mean by "vandalism". You've already been turned down at Requests for undeletion, and I don't think a DRV has much chance of overturning the deletion, so my advice is that you drop the matter; if you make a pest of yourself, you're likely to be blocked as well. Deor (talk) 16:34, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2021).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Clpo13
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Interface administrator changes
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CheckUser changes
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Oversight changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Dreamy Jazz • LuK3

Guideline and policy news
 * Phase 2 of the 2021 RfA review has commenced which will discuss potential solutions to address the 8 issues found in Phase 1. Proposed solutions that achieve consensus will be implemented and you may propose solutions till 07 November 2021.

Technical news
 * Toolhub is a catalogue of tools which can be used on Wikimedia wikis. It is at https://toolhub.wikimedia.org/.

Arbitration
 * , and  have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2021 Arbitration Committee Elections.  and  are reserve commissioners.
 * Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves to stand in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections from 07 November 2021 until 16 November 2021.

Miscellaneous
 * The 2021 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of five new CheckUsers and two new Oversighters.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:43, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

List of public art in Newark, New Jersey
Thanks for your correction of coords for Statue of Hockey Player, of the works listed on the List of public art in Newark, New Jersey. The latter article includes locations coords for all items on the list. Some however are not exact or precies as they could be. If you felt inclined to correct them it would be improvement to article, and of course appreciated. Djflem (talk) 15:26, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've done the ones I could. If something—like the George Floyd statue—is too new to show up on a Google street view, I have no way of knowing its exact loaction. (Don't spread it around, but some of my work with coordinates technically constitutes original research, probably.) Deor (talk) 19:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks great, thanks. Djflem (talk) 22:11, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – December 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2021).



Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg A Train • Berean Hunter • Epbr123 • GermanJoe • Sanchom • Mysid

Technical news
 * Unregistered editors using the mobile website are now able to receive notices to indicate they have talk page messages. The notice looks similar to what is already present on desktop, and will be displayed on when viewing any page except mainspace and when editing any page.
 * The limit on the number of emails a user can send per day has been made global instead of per-wiki to help prevent abuse.

Arbitration
 * Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee Elections is open until 23:59, 06 December 2021 (UTC).
 * The already authorized standard discretionary sanctions for all pages relating to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), broadly construed, have been made permanent.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:24, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Administrators will no longer be autopatrolled
A recently closed Request for Comment (RFC) reached consensus to remove Autopatrolled from the administrator user group. You may, similarly as with Edit Filter Manager, choose to self-assign this permission to yourself. This will be implemented the week of December 13th, but if you wish to self-assign you may do so now. To find out when the change has gone live or if you have any questions please visit the Administrator's Noticeboard. 20:05, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks !
I had no idea how to put in those references in the discussion about Shelley H. Metzenbaum, so I have now learned something. Thanks. DaffodilOcean (talk) 19:40, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not really a big deal in a unified discussion like an AfD, but if no template is used, the refs are automatically listed at the bottom of a page, which can be confusing in a talk page that contains multiple threads. I was just being persnickety in Articles for deletion/Shelley H. Metzenbaum. Deor (talk) 00:12, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!
 Happy First Edit Day! Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

From the Birthday Committee, CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

List of public art in Jersey City, New Jersey
List of public art in Jersey City, New Jersey has coordinates which are mostly correct, but could be more precise, if you were up to it. Thanks Djflem (talk) 02:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)