User talk:Derbaer

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Sief
Hello, regarding your message on my talk page about the Sief article. As Your first article says, wikipedia has decided that articles on organisations (and some other types of articles) can be speedy deleted if they do not assert their importance or significance. This can often take place within minutes of creation. Wikipedia gets thousands of articles created every day and in order to maintain itself requires this step to be met. In the case of the original Sief article there was no such assertion but it was left up for almost 10 hours after creation to give time for such an assertion to be added, which is longer than normal.

In the long term in order for an article on Sief to be kept, reliable secondary sources will need to be added to the article to meet the notability guideline for organisations. I would be happy to restore the deleted versions of the article if you think there is some content that can be used to improve the article and hope you (or anyone else) are able to find and add sources in order to meet wikipedia's inclusion guidelines. Davewild (talk) 17:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi in reply to your message on my talk page. I did not delete the second article but from the rationale of the other admin it does look to have been deleted for the same reason. As to what a reliable secondary source is, the full explanation can be found at Reliable sources but to quote probably the most important section:-


 * "Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand. How reliable a source is depends on context. As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication".


 * Neither myself nor I am sure the other admin are questioning that Sief exists, but the sources need to be independent of the subject of the article, meaning that Sief's own website cannot be used as a source for establishing the notability of the organisation. The sources do not have to be online and print sources are fine (examples include scholarly articles or articles by news organisations). If an offline source is challenged then it may be required to quote what that source actually says.


 * When creating a new article you can either write the article in one go, establishing the significance and making sure everything in the article is sourced to reliable sources, or as I mostly do nowadays you can write the article in userspace. For example you could create a new article at User:Derbaer/SIEF (note in capitals) and then take your time to build the article up over days and weeks. As long as it is not being clearly used as a promotional page it will not be deleted even if it would meet the criteria for being speedy deleted if it was in the main article space. Then once you feel that it is ready, it can be moved to the mainspace at SIEF. An example of an article where I have done this recently can be seen here. I hope this is helpful. Davewild (talk) 19:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC)