User talk:Derekstevens

Disruptive editing
Derek, I am uncertain what your issue with the University of Florida is, or why you are so determined to insert as much negative information and opinion into the article as you can, especially regarding Florida Gators athletics. This is not an article about Florida Gators sports; it is an article about the University generally, and as such, athletics are discussed only in the broad overview and in the context of the larger university. There is no discussion of what Florida universities won what championship first, etc., because there are other Wikipedia articles that discuss those other universities and their athletic teams. Frankly, it make no sense to insert discussions of other universities' athletic programs into an article about the University of Florida. This is not an article about the University of Miami, Florida State, the University of South Florida, or the history of college football. Nor does it make a lot of sense to insert negative history about stripped conference championships that the university does not claim. Again, this is an article about a university, and only briefly touches on sports, let alone the history of each program. If you want to read articles that frankly discuss the negative history of the Florida football program, I suggest that you read the Charley Pell and Marshall Criser articles that directly address these time periods.

In the mean time, I politely ask that you stop your disruptive editing of the main University of Florida article. Thank you. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 03:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Negative information is relevant to discussion on a myriad of different topics. If the information is factual and properly sourced, there should be no problem with the material being added. These bits of information provide factual context to the article. What is abundantly clear from my few brief days in monitoring this page is that their is a dedicated network of UF supporters attempting to squash free speech and use Wikipedia as a misleading PR piece, solely for UF's gain. I mean, UF a "public ivy?" Because one guy claims this, it gets to be declared "fact" on Wikipedia? I have lived all over the country, from California, Texas, Michigan, Illinois, New York, and Virginia, and in not a single one of those states does anyone look at UF as even an elite academic institution, let alone a public ivy. It is not mentioned in the same breath as UNC, UVA, UC-Berkeley, Univ. of Michigan, etc. Yet, in my brief time in living here, I notice that UF alumni have created this totally ridiculous idea that they are so much greater than every other school in the state and many around the country. Most people outside of Florida couldn't distinguish between FSU and UF. I won't even get started about the ridiculousness of Gator sports fans.

I attend to use my free speech rights, within the rules of Wikipedia, to expose the facts. For future edits of the main article, I'll try to keep it relevant enough for you, since I see you are trying to treat this like a legal technicality. The ball is in your court counselor.

Derek C. Stevens Derekstevens (talk


 * I don't agree with your observations. As an alumnus of the University of Tennessee it pains me greatly to admit this, but UF *is* one of the elite public universities (don't you *dare* tell my UF friends that I said that; I'd never hear the end of it!).
 * And yes, the guy who coined the term "Public Ivy" does indeed get to decide who is and is not a Public Ivy and that's a fact. Sorry but he wrote the book and he writes the rules. :)
 * I recommend (a) discussing your edits in the article's Talk page and (b) seeing if there are more appropriate articles for some of the information you've referenced. For example, material about the UF athletic teams probably fits better in the article about the Gators or even the specific athletic team than the more general UF article.  ElKevbo (talk) 05:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "I attend to use my free speech rights" I assume you mean "intend", and there are no freedom of speech rights. This is not a government website.  Enigma msg  08:00, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, we can argue WP procedure and we can also argue substance. For the record, here are the U.S. News 2010 rankings of "Best Colleges: Top Public Schools: National Universities"&mdash;

. ..
 * 1. University of California-Berkeley (most selective) (21st) (AAU) (SAT: 1210-1470)
 * 2. University of California-Los Angeles (most selective) (24th) (AAU) (SAT: 1170-1410)
 * 2. University of Virginia (most selective) (24th) (AAU) (1220-1440) (SAT: 1220-1440)
 * 4. University of Michigan (Ann Arbor) (most selective) (27th) (AAU) (ACT: 27-31)
 * 5. University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (most selective) (28th) (AAU) (SAT: 1210-1390)
 * 6. College of William and Mary (most selective) (33rd) (not AAU) (SAT: 1250-1440)
 * 7. Georgia Institute of Technology (more selective) (35th) (AAU) (SAT: 1250-1420)
 * 7. University of California-San Diego (most selective) (35th) (AAU) (SAT: 1140-1370)
 * 9. University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign) (more selective) (39th) (AAU) (ACT: 26-31)
 * 9. University of Wisconsin-Madison (more selective) (39th) (AAU) (ACT: 26-30)
 * 11. University of California-Davis (most selective) 42nd) (AAU) (SAT: 1050-1320)
 * 11. University of California-Santa Barbara (most selective) (42nd) (AAU) (1080-1320)
 * 11. University of Washington (most selective) (42nd) (AAU) (SAT: 1100-1330)
 * 14. University of California-Irvine (most selective) (46th) (AAU) (SAT: 1090-1300)
 * 15. Pennsylvania State University University Park (more selective) (47th) (AAU) (SAT: 1100-1300)
 * 15. University of Florida (most selective) (47th) (AAU) (SAT: 1160-1380)
 * 15. University of Texas at Austin (more selective) (47th) (AAU) (SAT: 1150-1350)
 * 48. Florida State University (more selective) (102nd) (not AAU) (ACT: 24-28 / SAT: 1110-1290)

Tier 3 National Universities


 * T3. University of Central Florida (unranked) (more selective) (not AAU) (SAT: 1080-1270)
 * T3. University of South Florida (unranked) (more selective) (not AAU) (SAT: 1040-1240)

Tier 4 National Universities


 * T4. Florida A&M University (unranked) (selective) (not AAU) (ACT: 17-21
 * T4. Florida Atlantic University (unranked) (selective) not AAU) (SAT: 950-1120)
 * T4. Florida International University (unranked) (selective) (''not AAU) (SAT: 1080-1240)

Tier 1 Master's Universities


 * T1. University of North Florida (selective) (not AAU) (SAT: 1020-1240)

Tier 3 Master's Universities


 * T3. Florida Gulf Coast University (selective) (not AAU) (SAT: 940-1120)

Please note that the numerically ranked list includes only the public universities (i.e. state institutions). Only the top 64 public national universities are ranked, after that they are clumped as Tier 3 and Tier 4 institutions. The University of Florida is among the top 25 percent of all ranked national public universities; Florida State is among the bottom 25 percent. Florida's admissions selectivity is rated "most selective," ahead of 6 of the other top 15 public national universities (including Georgia Tech, Illinois, Wisconsin, Penn State and Texas). Florida State is rated "more selective," and no other Florida public university's admissions selectivity is rated higher than "selective."

To further your understanding, I have also enhanced the list with (a) the U.S. News rankings of all national universities, both public and private (see number following the "selectivity" parenthetical); (b) 25th-to-75th percentile SAT scores from the Common Data Set; and also (b) an identifier for universities that are one of the 63 Association of American Universities (AAU) members.

Setting aside the three Big Ten universities that primarily rely on the ACT (i.e. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin), the University of Florida has higher entering freshman SAT scores than 7 of the other public universities in the top 15 (including UC-Davis, UC-Irvine, UC-San Diego, UC-Santa Barbara, Penn State, Texas, Washington). On the basis of entering freshman admissions statistics, a very strong case can be made that U.S. News actually understates the University of Florida's true standing among her peer public universities, and should be rated higher than it currently is. But, no matter. . ..

Florida Gulf Coast University and the University of North Florida are not rated as "national universities," but rather are listed as "master's universities."

No other Florida university, public or private, is ranked ahead of the University of Florida, by any subjective or objective measure. The University of Miami, a private institution, is ranked 50th among all national universities, public and private (vs. Florida at 47th). I challenge you to find a single source that ranks FSU, Miami or any other Florida university as more "academically prestigious," more "academically comprehensive," or more "selective" in admissions than the University of Florida. Good luck with that, sir.

In direct comparison of the University of Florida to Florida State University, let's have a quick peak:

Florida vs. Florida State

4.0 vs. 3.7 average high school GPA

1160-1380 vs. 1110-1290 average SAT 25th-75th percentile

93% vs 76% students in top 25% of high school class

94.5% vs. 88.8% freshman retention rate

82.8% vs. 70.0% graduation rate

3.6 vs. 3.0  peer assessment score (subjective survey)

15th vs 48th Rank among all public national universities

47th vs. 102nd Rank among all national universities (public and private)

Yup. It's pretty clear. By both objective and subjective measures, the University of Florida is closer to the University of Virginia than Florida State is to the University of Florida.

Thank you, and good night, Gracie.

Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Other university rankings
2009 Academic Ranking of World Universities North American Region
 * University of Florida (39th in U.S. / 58th in world)
 * University of Miami (56th-70th in U.S. / 101st-151st in world)
 * Florida State University (ranked 71st-90th in U.S. /152nd-200th in world)
 * University of Central Florida (ranked 91st-112th in U.S. / 201st-302nd in world)
 * University of Central Florida (ranked 91st-112th in U.S. / 201st-302nd in world)

No other Florida universities ranked.

2009 Washington Monthly National Universities Rankings
 * University of Florida (45th)
 * Florida Institute of Technology (53rd)
 * Florida A&M University (55th)
 * Florida State University (121st)
 * University of Miami (130th)
 * University of South Florida (151st)
 * University of West Florida (178th)
 * University of Central Florida (228th)
 * Florida Atlantic University (242nd)

No other Florida universities ranked.

Kiplinger's Monthly 100 Best Values in Public Colleges 2009-10


 * University of Florida (4th)
 * Florida State University (26th)
 * New College of Florida (66th)
 * University of South Florida (67th)
 * University of Central Florida (68th)

No other Florida universities ranked.

Webometrics 2010 Rank of Universities of United States of America


 * University of Florida (25th)
 * Florida State University (74th)
 * University of South Florida (123rd)
 * University of Miami (204th)
 * Florida International University (212th)
 * University of Central Florida (221st)
 * Florida Atlantic University (516th)
 * Florida Institute of Technology (909th)
 * University of North Florida (910th)
 * University of West Florida (1005th)
 * Florida Gulf Coast University (1123rd)

Wuhan University 2007 World University Rankings


 * University of Florida (37th in world)
 * University of Miami (106th in world)
 * Florida State University (184th in world)
 * University of South Florida (193rd in world))
 * University of Central Florida (442nd in world))
 * Florida International University (495th in world)

No other Florida universities ranked.

Arizona State Center for Measuring University Performance 2009 Top American Research Universities


 * University of Florida (tied for 26th, with 9 others)
 * Florida State University (tied for 74th, with 12 others)
 * University of Miami (tied for 74th, with 12 others)

No other Florida universities ranked, among all public and private research universities. They do, however, rank all public universities separately. Here are the Florida public universities in order:


 * University of Florida (tied for 8th, with 4 others)
 * Florida State University (tied for 46th, with 3 others)
 * University of South Florida (tied for 46th, with 3 others)
 * Florida International University (tied for 71st, with 12 others)
 * University of Central Florida (tied for 71st, with 12 others)

No other Florida universities ranked.

Okay. You probably get the idea. You may not likeit, but pretty much every rating service has the University of Florida ranked among the top 45 of all American universities, public and private, and among the top 15 public universities. You may not want to believe it, but facts are stubborn little buggers.

Happy reading. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:40, 10 June 2010 (UTC)