User talk:Derringer48

AfD nomination of Loren Weisman
An article that you have been involved in editing, Loren Weisman, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Loren Weisman. Thank you. Joyous! | Talk 00:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Well here's a long message re:Loren Weisman
Hi there. I'm pleased to see an enthusiastic editor, and want to see you succeed. So I'm going to go over a couple of points in the hopes that it will give your future entries longevity. It's probably safe to say that the article got flagged for deletion (rather than it simply being edited down) because the first editor, Wikibgekh, wrote it essentially as a highly biased advertisement for Mr. Weisman. So the first policy that we can highlight is the one that shows you what Wikipedia is not, specifically that it is not a place for self-promotion or advertising. A good example of this was an entire paragraph (since removed) that listed why an artist would benefit from Mr. Weisman's services: "works with the artist every step of the way..." etc.

Much of the language used was, and continues to be, highly promotional. Most unbiased Wikipedia editors bristle at this kind of language. descriptors such as "with dynamic success" and "a revolutionary music enterprise" can be described as peacock terms. They are overly-complementary bits of filler that provide no real information, and it would serve you well to eliminate them on sight.

Now for the big stuff. Most of the folks over at the deletion discussion are stating that the article fails to meet Wikipedia's Notability guidelines. Specifically, WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC and WP:CORP. Read these guidelines! If the Loren Weisman article does not meet these notability requirements, it will get deleted, and soon. Yes, Mr. Weisman was a session drummer. But according to these guidelines, you have yet to establish any real notability (by Wikipedia inclusion standards) that justifies such a long section on this part of his past. Since it is an interesting fact that he used to play the drums professionally, my suggestion is to limit this entire section to one well-written, properly sourced sentence.

Meeting notability requires some good references, and this is where the article needs a lot of work. I think it's fairly safe to assume that anything written by Mr. Weisman that describes himself doesn't count as a reliable source. This includes his Linkedin profile, or any byline provided in an article he wrote (like the weekendmusician piece). Also, most sources that are written with the express purpose of promoting the subject (i.e. press releases, band bios, etc) are very suspect as Wikipedia references. This includes the bostonbands website and the FSRP press release.

So now we're looking at an article that has, I think, one reliable reference (from the Nashua Telegraph). And all this article states is that Mr. Weisman has played drums professionally, and that he taught a 90-minute drum session at a camp one day.

The external links (including the external links currently nested in the article) need to meet the requirements stated at WP:EL. Use them sparingly. External links need to be on-topic and justifiable.

I also removed a section about a book that Weisman is working on, as this kind of future work fails this guideline.

First steps? Find multiple mentions of Mr. Weisman in international, national, or even regional media; incorporate that information into the text of the article and cite the source. If he is notable enough, those sources exist. Then go and edit out all the extemporaneous fluff and stick to the facts. I'll leave it to you and Wikibgekh (and anyone else who may come along) to do the work. Oh, and if either you or Wikibgekh actually are Mr. Weisman or someone affiliated with him, please read WP:COI regarding conflict of interest editing at Wikipedia. Apologies for the long message, and happy editing. Steamroller Assault (talk) 18:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh yeah--and when you are participating in discussions, please remember to sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) after your entry. This will post your username and a link to your talk page. That way, we know who said what, and can more easily get in contact with you if we want to further discuss things. Cheers, Steamroller Assault (talk) 20:30, 15 January 2009 (UTC)