User talk:Detcin/Archive 3

Ohio State Route 25
Why did you remove the expand section template that I added to the Ohio State Route 25 article? Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 20:35, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Because I'm still editing the article and adding info, should be mostly done very soon.Detcin (talk) 20:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were in process of editing the history section, yet. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 21:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That is fine it takes sometime to download the maps from ODOT.Detcin (talk) 21:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:USRDCUP
Hello! As a member of WP:USRD, you may be interested to know that we are doing the USRD Cup contest again this year! Signups are at the above page and the contest will begin February 1. --Rschen7754 10:13, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback deployment
Hey Detcin; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

County road maps for Indiana
I'm in the process of making a junction list for US 150. I was doing fine until I got to Indiana. Are there any decent county maps made by the DOT? I know there is a route log, but I like to verify with maps when possible. –Fredddie™ 22:47, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

updated template
I noticed here, that you were updating a template. would you like me to update all tranclusions using AWB? -- Aunva6talk - contribs 20:18, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think AWB would work the Florida State Road 83 Major intersections table would have a key with concur. Some articles have many keys (concur, unbuilt, incomplete, and so on). Detcin (talk) 20:28, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I already went through and got what I could with AWB. The rest is too complicated. --Rschen7754 public (talk) 21:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Indiana SR 931 graphics
I see that a shield was made for 931 only 20 minutes after I created the article, without direct notification to anybody that I did. This is getting eerily close to ESP.... Mapsax (talk) 13:16, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I was notified of SR 931 when you linked to U.S. Route 31 in Indiana since I was the creator of that article. Plus I have every, or almost every, Indiana road article on my watchlist, so adding SR 931 to List of Indiana State Roads, Indiana State Road 930 and Indiana State Road 933 would have notified me also. Detcin (talk) 15:08, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, I figured your watchlist had something to do with it. However, to note it at the time or immediately after, think to create a graphic, actually create it, upload it, and make the necessary code changes all within 20 minutes of the parent article going live just seemed like an unlikely set of coincidences to me. Similar instances have happened to me before, in which an article sits dormant for months until I make an edit, then there are one or more followup edits within hours or even minutes after mine, almost always involving articles within the USRD project. The pattern has bewildered me....
 * Anyway, regarding the article, I suppose we could quibble about the "future" appelation, in that the SR-931 designation exists since INDOT has already created it, it's just that it can't be posted yet. But it'll be moot in a couple of months anyway, assuming adherence to the schedule, so I can live with that article status. Mapsax (talk) 15:37, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Shields can be made and upload very quickly, with the template on commons. Just uploading the shield will make it show in the article, no coding needed. As for the people edit soon after your edits the articles show up on watchlist and the project watchlist here.--Detcin (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

A crazy thought
I don't know if you've seen WP:USRD/CONN or not, but that page was created out of a crazy notion once discussed on IRC. When looking at File:USRD FA map.png, the notion was, "it would be pretty neat if all the lines connected." Anyway, Michigan's state highway FAs interconnect on a map as much as practical. Concerning the rest of the country, I had a crazy thought of my own, and here's where you might come in.

Interstate 80 in Iowa is an FA. If we could improve Interstate 80 in Illinois, that would connect across Illinois and tie in Interstate 355. Then, if we improved Interstate 94 in Indiana, that would connect the two I-80 articles to the Michigan state line. I know the article isn't in great shape right now, but Interstate 94 in Michigan is on my list to improve as a goal to get the ten longest highways in the state listed as FAs at some point. I-94 in MI would also connect to several existing FAs in the state. From there, to make connections out to the West Coast, we had some ideas using specific state-detail articles for I-15, I-35 and I-70 to get the San Diego area connected northward and eastward to Iowa.

Anyway, if you're interested, many of the project regulars would be willing to help you. Additionally, Borman Expressway could/should be merged into the I-94 in IN article to give the latter article a head start on expansion. I have at least one newspaper article I can give you about when I-94 in IN was finished because it impacts the very last little piece of I-94 in MI that needed to be opened between exit 1 and the state line. Time and real-life commitments permitting, I'd be willing to help with anything else I can, if you want.  Imzadi 1979  →   08:46, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I will start working on this, but I will be away from November 3 to November 13.--Detcin (talk) 16:30, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Indiana 931 creation
Are you sure that 931 was created precisely on November 26? I understand about signage being created ahead of time, but that added to the fact that the 931 designation already showed up on the 2014 map in the summer leads me to think that the paperwork was complete before the bypass opened. Designation switches/shuffles prior to or after the opening of a highway or highway segment have been done before. If so, having a date of commission different than the date of public access would be confusing to the WP user, so that's why I think listing just the year is the way to go. If not, I still don't see a compelling reason to specify the exact day of the commissioning – that seems to be the standard on most WP articles, anyway – just the day of the bypass opening. Mapsax (talk) 14:51, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * To start with the 2014 map is NOT published by INDOT, it is published by another Indiana department maybe the visitors center. The map is a 2014 not a 2013-14, so it would (or that least should) show the roads as they in 2014. Rand McNally and the older Illinois maps are the same way. Illinois not to long ago published a 2013-14 map and it show the state as it was in early 2013. The 2014 Indiana map has many errors on it, one SR 431 is still on it, SR 431 has been decommissioned for at least five years. INDOT has given SR 750 to the North Vernon bypass it even has SR 750 signs, but it is not numbered on the map, just a black line.(it is not open to traffic) The map has commissioned a new state road between SR 101 and Ohio 111 in rural Allen County. Some other decommissioned routes are still listed and the map is not to reliable. The SR 931 on the map was a place holder if the city and/or county didn't accept the route, which they didn't it would become SR 931. News articles before Nov. 26 said something like INDOT may be forced into numbering old US 31 has a state road. Many news articles on the Nov. 26 and 27 listed it as be commissioned on Nov. 26, with something like "INDOT will now commission old US 31 through Kokomo as SR 931". The entire date is used on other road articles in other state if info can be found.--Detcin (talk) 17:41, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * First, the map is still published by INDOT; they're copublisher now, along with the Indiana Office of Tourism Development, which is probably the name you were looking for (frontbackAugust 1 press release). There might be errors, but it's still the official map, just like all the others from the other states, which are RSs. Second, all the news reports appear to be based on INDOT's press release about the opening, which states "The $155 million section allows through traffic to avoid 15 traffic signals and more than 130 access points on the preexisting U.S. 31 through Kokomo, which is being renamed State Road 931." That doesn't necessarily mean that the 931 designation was instantly applied the moment that the new 31 roadway opened to traffic. I still would like to see explicit documentation stating when INDOT decided on the 931 designation. Right now, the map showing 931 seems to be the closest thing available on the IN.gov website, and reflects the fact that a decision about the designation must have already been made by that point, well before November. Mapsax (talk) 15:25, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That is why INDOT and news media kept calling it Old US 31 and not SR 931 until the Nov. 26, calling the new road "US 31". INDOT kept trying to get the county and city to accept the road into their control, but at least one refused the road. If the county and city accepted the road SR 931 would have never been commissioned, this could have happen on November 25. If both accept the road before the end of 2013(not likely) or even in 2014, the Infobox would read 2013-2013 or 2013-2014 not to good looking when complete dates could have been used and probable will be if the route is decommission. Why put 2013, when 2012, was the first time that SR 931 was suggested? November 26, 2013 is when the signs went up on the old US 31. When referencing to a map the year before would be needed, that map would be the 2011-2012, so one year 2012-2013 was skipped, meaning the change could have happen in 2012. Besides quoting directly from Infobox road "established: this is the date the route was commissioned or assigned to its current alignment." when would SR 931 been assigned to its current route ON Nov. 26, NOT before it was still technical US 31 (even though INDOT called it Old US 31 a lot). Basically saying: when was SR 931 signed, not when someone may have suggested or talked about it. --Detcin (talk) 18:24, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You're missing the possibility that for a brief time the highway could have been designated SR 931 while still being signed as US 31. We do know that it was more than a suggestion by August, otherwise it wouldn't have shown up on the map, regardless of whether INDOT intended for the conditions of the map to reflect its printed date or the real-time date of its release. And as for the date in the infobox, except for the off chance that INDOT made a final decision on the designation almost a year before the bypass opened, I don't see why simply "2013", as opposed to a pair of years, wouldn't suffice. Again, assuming that the map becomes the final reference, the map was published in 2013 even though it says "2014".
 * Additionally, while I'm not surprised about INDOT's discussion with the locals about maintenance turnover, since they've been doing the same with 930 and 933 nearly since those have existed, I never ran across anything in the news regarding Kokomo. If you could dig something up, it might enhance the article.
 * I'm linking this discussion from the USRD talk page for further opinion. I'm not going to revert the 931 page, but I'll temporarily put something that I think is a compromise until the date issue is resolved. Mapsax (talk) 13:10, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The last map was 2011 this map is 2013, still missing a year, 2012.
 * So your are saying Ohio State Route 607 would be 2011/2012, even though the road was bring replaced or Ohio State Route 823 would be 2012 even though no road is present. One last one M-231 would have a 2007, 2009, or some year even though the road would not even open until and be usable for five years, closer to ten years, because in these cases the DOT has or had reserved the numbers for the roads. All but one was new construction, SR 607 was a rebuild of an existing road. This one is basically the same thing, but in 1926, M-20 was replaced by US 10 and M-20 moved to a new alignment that day.
 * P.S. I'll find the info, I archived but may have not saved the link.--Detcin (talk) 14:08, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting examples. Yes, listing the date of establishment of Ohio SR 607 as the date of the ODOT press release and posting of markers is probably wrong since that makes it sound like ODOT prepared and posted the markers the same day that the designation was decided, unlikely. I can't even find anything linked from the 823 article stating that the Portsmouth bypass will have that number, so that looks like conjecture. (Correction: This ODOT document states it explicitly in the last text section. The only EL/source in the article at this point, though, has an expired domain, which is why I mentioned the conjecture. Still searching for a suitable replacement.) ODOT used to post updates for its SLDs which included dates of route changes (see for example 46 and 86 here), but it looks like they stopped a while back; in any case, 607 doesn't have a SLD yet. As for M-231, a statement at Michigan Highways (established a while ago as not being a RS, but works for this discussion) says "The M-231 route designation...is unveiled at an MDOT Public Information Meeting on this date [November 8, 2006]", but even with that, it's not clear when MDOT put the paperwork through in relation to the timing of the meeting. M-231's article doesn't list a date of establishment listed in the first place, however, so there's no contention there to start with.
 * I think I get what you're saying regarding the maps. Since there's a gap of a year between the most recent map with 931 and the one before, if the maps were used in tandem as a source, 2012 would have to be accounted for. But that's if the maps were the only source. I think that if we used the dated 2014/issued 2013 map along with other sources, this wouldn't be an issue. Mapsax (talk) 14:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone outside of you two really care that the route was designated November 26 rather than November 24 or October 13 or January 17? Is there any Wikipedia guideline that says to use the exact date instead of a good approximation? Just say 2013 and be done with it.  V C  16:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:U.S. Highways in Indiana
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