User talk:DevorahLeah

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DevorahLeah (talk) 06:56, 1 March 2008 (UTC) Thanks! I am such a newbie to this stuff, so if I've done any of the replies incorrectly, I apologise. Also, I am a fairly well-regarded media historian (somebody even put up a page about me, which I took the liberty of updating!) so if you ever have questions about the history of broadcasting, I'd be happy to help. I really want to do things right, so bear with me while I learn!

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Article about you
Just so you know: people are generally discouraged from editing their own wikipedia articles. Removing untrue unsourced statements is fine, but you should make sure you have a source for anything you add. (you can't just say "I'm the source"). 64.230.95.56 (talk) 18:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, what's with your email turning up in that CAMERA leak? are you one of their members? 64.230.95.56 (talk) 18:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 08:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)Umm, I was very puzzled by that-- first, your question seems to imply that it's bad to be a CAMERA member. I don't agree with them on every issue, but I know several of their active members, and they've been very courteous to me. (I'm a big fan of civil discourse, even with people with whom I disagree.) Because I'm a researcher and a free-lance writer, I have volunteered my time now and then to all sorts of groups with all sorts of ideologies. Obviously, there are some I would not actively help because I oppose their politics (I don't wanna be a member of the Republican National Committee, for example). But because I am a big fan of accurate research, if even the RNC asked me a media history question, and I had the answer, I'd try to provide it. I'm always happy to do my part to find information that is both objective and correct-- I hope the entries I've edited or added facts to on Wikipedia have shown that I can be counted on to provide accurate and unbiased info. So, yes I had offered to do some research for CAMERA. A friend of mine asked if I'd help them on several projects, and I do agree with some of what they do-- but please, please, please, let's not debate CAMERA here. I am just trying to answer your question honestly.

Anyway, I never got the opportunity to do any research for them, since somebody who evidently hates CAMERA infilitrated the list-serv and published all of our names. As I said, if I were to list all the groups I've done research for, you'd have a tough time figuring out my ideology. I mainly try to be fair. And I have no idea what the purpose of the person was when he or she published my name, as if I were some vile individual who deserves to be (gasp) exposed. I'm just your basic friendly Jewish feminist, who loves media history. I'm pro-Israel but not fond of many of the government's policies (as could also be said about how many of us feel towards America these days-- I am pro-America, but don't feel very good about the actions of the current administration)... and I'm a member of several peace groups, trying our best to get more equitable and just policies implemented. In case you wanna check, you'll find I am also a member of the ACLU, People for the American Way, and other organizations that promote and defend civil liberties.

As for my Wikipedia entry, I tried to add in articles from reputable sources that were factual. A lot has been written about me over the years, so I tried to find a few sources to back up what my colleague had written when he did the original entry. If I did anything wrong, please let me know so I can fix it, but no, I didn't quote myself in my profile.

DevorahLeah (talk) 08:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC) I have left Emerson College (where I spent 19 years) and I just got a new position, at Lesley University in Cambridge MA as an Assistant Professor and co-ordinator of their new Communication program. I know you don't like to let us edit our own profiles, but am I allowed to make this change, since I am the one who knows where I am going to be working in September?

Professional researcher
Yes print edition references are still very helpful even in the internet era.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What is really important is whether you can help us to improve articles for individuals who meet Wikipedia's notability standards. Any such article that you can do this for is something I would encourage you to work on.  I enjoy it when good work is done on Chicago related articles and appreciate any such contributions.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. Do you have access to the Detroit Free Press or Detroit News going back a few decades?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC) Hi Tony. I wish I did have access to the Detroit newspapers from back then, but alas, I do not. I do however have enough colleagues in that area who are researchers and could probably do you a favour.


 * Basically, neither of these is an article related to media, but someone who knows how to research the Detroit Free Press may be able to help. Thomas Wilcher could use a place and date of birth. Also, I would not be surprised if Wilcher participated in Olympic Trials or ran in the European Circuit in the late 80s, but I do not know how to research this.  I imagine in the 70s and 80s he appeared frequently in the Free Press.  Gene Derricotte could also use a place and date of birth, but he is older.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I have a question. I corrected the false claim in the Diann Burns piece that she was the first black woman anchor in Chicago-- she was not. I sourced it to a reputable newspaper, and today, I notice it's been removed. What did I do wrong?
 * I think there was some major editing of unsourced statements and your work might have gotten thrown out with the bath water. You should try to readd your information.  If there are further problems leave a note on my talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Readded it as a reference since you had it down to the page and the date. Apologies if I forgot to re-add it in my rewrite.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 08:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC) Thanks. Wasn't trying to be rude-- just making sure that I'm doing things right. I am still a bit of a newbie compared to you folks. And on that note, I added a ton of information (and will add more) about Los Angeles talk show host Michael Jackson. Everything I added had internal footnotes plus a reading list. Yet on the page for him, it now says there are no internal footnotes. This gets me confused-- I am looking right at them. Is the editor saying there should be more? I didn't write the entire piece-- just parts of it, and what I wrote, I sourced because mom raised me that way!!!
 * I added a reflist tag below the article text; that's how they appear. You should be able to add them now. Read WP:CITE to see all the ways to add citations and references to an article that might not have one.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 08:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 08:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC) Ah hello Nate-- you're a night person like me!!! I wanna tell Tony that I am trying to track down the Gene Derricotte query he had. I've already added 2 new pieces of information, and since I have access to a number of black newspapers, I may be able to get the date of birth he wanted-- I think I have it, but I need to verify it before I post it. And thanks for being patient with me on the way to cite stuff. I'm accustomed to doing it a particular way in academia... but if I'm doing it wrong on wikipedia, let me know.

DevorahLeah (talk) 09:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC) YAY!!! I got a verifiable birth month and year for Eugene Derricotte, and added in some other biographical information about his childhood and his scholastic abilities. (The birth month and year were on Ancestry.com and verified in a newspaper article I quoted from the Pittsburgh Courier.) Hope that I helped out a little, Tony. No luck on the other guy you asked about, but hey, one out of two ain't bad!


 * Thanks for the help. Please note that you should probably be using cite news format.  I have converted the Derricotte references.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey can you add a ref for the Derricotte birth month.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 01:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Tony, my apologies, but alas I have some perception problems and usually need somebody to explain stuff to me. Meanwhile, I did some more research and added more information about Gene's youth (his father's name, his brother's name, stuff like that). I know I cited that wrong, but if sometime you could contact me off list and walk me through how to use all the symbols, I'd appreciate it-- I know how to do a basic cite, for example, but when there are already other footnotes, mine seems to go back to (1) when I want it to have a higher number, if I'm making any sense.

For example, I cited a (Richter 1998) article in that first paragraph of the updated article -- the full citation is Bob Richter, "Gene Derricotte's Excellent Adventure," San Antonio (TX) Express-News, 1 January 1998, p. 25A. But I couldn't figure out how to make the footnote numbers correct, given that there already were a bunch of them and I was inserting one more.

As for where I got his birth month and date, from ancestry.com, under US Public records. His was listed under "Gene A. Derricotte" and I have no clue how to cite US Public Records from Ancestry-- the URL was about a mile long. Here's the info, just so you won't think I made it up!! Name: 	Gene A Derricotte Birth Date: 	Jan 1926 Street address: 	3718 Morning Mist St City: 	San Antonio County: 	Bexar State: 	Texas Zip Code: 	78230 Phone Number: 	210-561-0280 Record Number: 	714656047

GA Thanks
Thanks for your efforts --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 08:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Other articles I have hit the wall on
In addition to Thomas Wilcher, which has already made GA, but could use your help, Merle Reskin Theatre, Keith Bostic (American football) and Thom Darden are articles that you might be able to bring to a WP:GA level with your superior resources. Feel free to try your hand at any of those. I have run out of resources the football players. I have not exhausted the theatre yet, but you might find it something you could improve.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 00:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC) Tony, I deeply appreciate the kind words, and thanks for helping me with the citations on the Derricotte essay-- I still wish I could chat with you about how to do the citations correctly because I have even more info about his childhood now, and I want to add it. So, I'm gonna put it into the essay and I hope you'll do your magic to fix it up correctly-- turns out, as I suspected, that he came from a very distinguished family. The citation I'm using is an article by William Jason Jr., "My Momma Done Tol' Me," Philadelphia Tribune, 11 November 1944, p. 4. Glad I can be of assistance-- I love to do research and if you want, I have a ton of resources and info about all sorts of Chicago broadcasters, especially women and minorities. May I add some of that info? Regarding Wilcher and the others, I gave a quick look a week or so ago, but will re-visit and see what I can find!!!

Killer Kowalski
This person is deceased. Please stop removing the recent death off his page. D.M.N. (talk) 17:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 17:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC) Sorry but he wasn't deceased this morning, according to his family. I am in media and I know some of the people involved, but I didn't want to report his death till it made the website. My apologies for any confusion. And yes he is in fact deceased now, may he rest in peace. This is quite a shock-- I visited him in early August and he looked great...
 * OK. Not to worry. D.M.N. (talk) 17:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes it was me (thanks for the compliment). How much material do you have - does it cover a wider scope other than professional wrestling? D.M.N. (talk) 16:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to Start-Class after recent edits. =) D.M.N. (talk) 11:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Peter Bynoe
What about Peter Bynoe?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 22:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 05:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC) My revised article is posted. Hope you like it!

I have to do a readthrough, but it looks like you found more than enough for us to get a WP:GA. Thanks for the help. I will clean it up and get it nominated this week.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have any more examples of how the media only paid attention to Lee and Bynoe?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 06:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC)I left a bunch of examples on your talk page. Let me know if you need more.
 * Those are fine.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Now, we just have to wait.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Buddy Fletcher
Do you know how to find a birth date and birth place for Buddy Fletcher?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 02:58, 14 September 2008 (UTC) At this point, all I could do was get you his parents' names and the year he was born-- I did the math on about 30 articles which gave his age, and it always worked out to 1966. I'll keep looking for more than that. Oh and every source says he was born and raised in Connecticut, so at least, we have that much...
 * I did not see the date in the source you referred to, but based on your logic, I will reinsert it. I missed the born in CT refs.  Where did those come from?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 05:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Hi Tony. Any word on whether our Peter Bynoe article is up to speed? I keep hoping it'll be a GA. As for Buddy Fletcher, here are some of the places where it says he was born in 1966-- and I haven't given up on finding an exact date.

Black Enterprise magazine, August 2004, p. 32 says:  Alphonse "Buddy" Fletcher Jr., a BE Wall Street All-Star, is donating $50 million  to further the cause of African American students. The chairman of New York-based Fletcher Asset Management plans to award 50 fellowships in the amount of $50,000 each to scholars, writers, and artists, Other portions of his donation will provide environmental justice scholarships to Yale University's School of Forestry & Environmental Studies, where Fletcher, 38, is a graduate student." (2004 - 38 = 1966)

From Newsweek, 7/19/93, p. 35 (titles of articles on request): One case involved 27-year-old Alphonse (Buddy) Fletcher, a former trader-analyst at Kidder. (1993 - 27 = 1966)

from New Yorker magazine, 29 April 1996, p. 82: "...about self-made black multi-millionaire investor Alphonse (Buddy) Fletcher, Jr., 30.  (1996 - 30 = 1966)

In fact, every article I found that gave his age, the math worked out to 1966. Want more? So that's why I said 1966!

Merle Reskin Theatre
Yes add anything notable that you may find.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 12:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have added some proper citations. It could probably use some sort of reorg of the history section, but let's see what they say at WP:GAC.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 01:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC)Tried my best. I'd be happy to re-write and re-organize if that's what is needed. Hope the additional history was useful! And again, I am sorry to make extra work for you-- wish I could figure out how to do the citations properly!!!
 * I have been very delinquent, but please accept this: . Thanks for the help.  You may be interested in adding some information to White City Amusement Park.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:38, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Herb Jepko
The page needs a lot of work in terms of wikification. Thus, the extensive content is not as high quality as a similar amount of content with proper wikification. Many people won't give anything above a stub to a biography article without an infobox. I changed the rating to start, but others may change it back.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

White City Amusement Park
White City Amusement Park could use some more breadth and depth in general. Any depth to either the Blimp or roller skating would be great. But more breadth on anything interesting would also help.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I am looking forward to your contributions.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed a paragraph of refs. I think if you look at what I did you should be able to do the rest.  It is not so hard.  Give it a try if you have a chance.  It is a pain for me to do and I have a lot of other stuff to do.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:29, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Farah
Our main goal is verifiability. So if the student directory is in a public depository where anyone can go to the library and examine the book, then we can use it as a source. Just make sure to note where a copy of the student directory is publicly available (presumably at the college library).

Using his own words is also fine, but there are some limitations. First, we should avoid using his words to source potentially negative information about other living people. So if he disparages another reporter from his career, we could not use that unless we had an independent source for it. Second, his words must be representative to avoid undue weight. For example, he might have a lot of views about some professional sport (or something), but if he is not well-known for these views, the article should not disproportionately dwell on them. Finally, we should use his own words to support factual propositions&mdash;for example, that he advocated some political position. We could not further interpret his words to advance new positions that he does not advance himself. See WP:PSTS.

Emails he sent you cannot be used. Although it would be appropriate for reporters to use such sources, they are not considered reliable published sources (the authenticity of the emails could be challenged, for example). Emails may also have verifiability problems; future editors might not be able to confirm these sources. Cool Hand Luke 18:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, with one correction. You can use his words to source potentially negative information about other living people if he published these words in reliable sources. Just try to avoid slander. In fact, I had very hard time trying to remove from a WP article literally the following statement: "Kill, kill, kill!" [certain people using nuclear bombs] sourced to an extremely unreliable web site, where it was not even clear who wrote this. Two WP administrators reinserted back the segment. Please ask if you need any help.Biophys (talk) 22:59, 19 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you. The part of his writing I wanted to use had nothing to do with his opinion about his many political enemies-- he is, by his own admission, a very polarizing figure.  But if I am reading him correctly, he feels the media (and interestingly, BOTH leftie and rightie publications) have misrepresented his views.  For example, I wanted to quote his assertion that he is NOT a conservative.  Rather, he seems to see himself as much more of a libertarian.  And thanks for the guidance on the e-mails-- as a journalist and free-lance writer, I am of course permitted to use them, but I can see why that wouldn't work here.  But I am still not sure how to cite sources that I used to verify his college degree and early career-- none of them are on line, so I had to make phone calls to libraries with the appropriate directories-- that's how I verified where he went to college.  I have the name of the publication that verified it, but it was sent to me by the head of the library at the college he attended.  (Working hard on this, believe me!!!) DevorahLeah (talk) 06:45, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There is absolutely no requirement to have sources available on line. You can use any sources available in a library or in another publicly available source of data, such as public databases, even if the subscription is paid. As about e-mails, they possibly can be cited if author places them at his web site, but mostly as a source about author himself.Biophys (talk) 00:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Last questions on the subject, and I'm sorry to be stooopid about this stuff. I believe we can now fill in the essay, since I have his date of birth and where he was raised and where he went to college; all of that was fact-checked with his college library's Alumni Directory, as I said, plus I found a conservative magazine (Insight on the News) which interviewed him in 2003 and also included some of his personal data.  (I have confirmed his father's name from ancestry.com and he also mentions his parents in one of his books.)  When I state that he is a 1977 graduate of William Paterson University, do I need to mention where I verified this (the William Paterson University Alumni Directory, published in 2002)?  I'm gonna begin adding in several things, but if I do the citations wrong, will you fix them for me? Thanks!!! DevorahLeah (talk) 00:29, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Alumni Directories are printed, sent to all Alumni and probably can be found in the library. They should qualify as WP:RS.Biophys (talk) 19:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've been really sick the past few days, and that has kind of slowed me down a little, but I have the research just about finished and am hopeful of writing something in the next day or so.  DevorahLeah (talk) 07:17, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As the person above told you, alumni directories are fine as a source, but there should be a presumption in favor of privacy for people who are private individuals. Specifically, unless his children are famous, are WND writers, or some other such thing, their names should not be published. --B (talk) 07:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I only put the family in there because of the comment thread above on this page where somebody had given incorrect names for his kids. I did not know we were not supposed to include family at all.  Also, am I allowed to write about his early years?  I did so, but it got deleted. DevorahLeah (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

re Marjorie Daw (actress)
Hi DevorahLeah. Just wondering about this edit. Does An Encyclopedic Dictionary of Women in Early American Films not support the early 1923 date, or what? Herostratus (talk) 16:06, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 02:05, 16 December 2010 (UTC)Hi there! Some of the early 1920s actresses evidently said various things to various sources. Here's what I found, and if your source is better, or if I am in error, by all means remove the change I made. In the Los Angeles Times (3 September 1923), it said she was "recently married to Eddie Sutherland (p. 7). And in the October 1923 issue of Radio in the Home (I'm holding it in my hand), it said she had been married "only a few months."


 * Oh OK. No, that's fine. Thanks for replying. Herostratus (talk) 05:21, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

DevorahLeah (talk) 08:26, 16 December 2010 (UTC) My pleasure. Is this your area of expertise? I do have a pretty large collection of old magazines from the silent movie and radio era, and if I can help in any way, feel free to call on me.


 * No, she just ended up on watchlist more or less at random because of the Thomas Bailey Aldrich story of the same title. Herostratus (talk) 18:45, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Audio theatre
Hi, I am a person from Germany. Possibly you can look on the discussion of the article: Audio theatre, because you have made edits in the past on articles which are related with it. with friendly greetings, Soenke --Soenke Rahn (talk) 23:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Neutral notice of an RfC
A Request for Comment has been posted for an article on which you have been an editor. If you wish to comment, go to Talk:List of African-American firsts. --Tenebrae (talk) 12:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

DonnaHalper (talk) 16:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC) I have no idea how I ended up on this one. Over the years, I've added or commented on a number of pages, including some related to African-American history, but I truly do not recall editing anything about pro wrestling! Is there something you would like me to check into or research for you?

ArbCom elections are now open!
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