User talk:Dineshkannambadi/Archive13

Hi Dinesh
Namaskara Dinesh, Hegidhira, Actually I was suppose to say that, Just add the following line in the History and Development Section of the Kannada language article. 'Kannada is the Second Oldest Dravidian language in use after Tamil which is the oldest in use.'. Hope you will do it, If I do, the your friends are rashly removing it. Really this was the first time I am seeing that people are like this forming groups and stoping others from doing any sort of edit. Really feeling shame and bad about this. Neevu namma anna, I believe all are Indians... Common ya... People like you and me only can change. Lets ignore various people who are acting like extremist, also who ll really spoil the harmony of our nation. --IndiWorld 18:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Dinesh,
I just wrote what is there in Akananooru, a sangam text written around the 3rd cent. A time where there was no difference between Kannada and Tamil. Anyway I am no more interested in bringing the information after all my wikis were vandalised with the kannada (i wont call karnataka) workgroup. I had a nightmare and thats why I warned them. No hard feelings. I know you are a reserarcher and a sensible guy. So no grudge with you. This is just for warding off Vandals....

PONDHEEPANKAR K DUPONDHEEPANKAR 03:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Karnataka
Per WikiRage.com, the article Karnataka received heavy editing today by unregistered users and may benefit from a good review. According to Wikipedia Page History Statistics, you are one of the top contributors to that page. If you have the time, would you please read over the article and make any necessary changes. Thanks. --  Jreferee  (Talk) 06:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

dinesh, ok then. pls. also ask ur mates sarvagnya, ganpti, knm and others to keep of from tamilnadu workgroup projects...we'll go on our own ways and be good wikians...regarding u i have no fuss. Ur a gem.

PONDHEEPANKAR 15:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

On banning me...
Dinesh, The Karnataka wiki group (srvagnya, ganpiti and knm) are tagging an edit war on me inspite of me agreeing for a truce with you (agrreing to mind our own branches). i am a new user and it is highly discouraging trying to corece me....so unlike a true wikipedian. i beleieved in you and pls. prevail on ur grp.

wishes pon d.u —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.104.143 (talk) 14:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Wodeyar
Perhaps true. The article should mainly discuss the Wodeyar clan and their importance in Kingdom of Mysore. I wonder whether we can get hold of User:Rajachandra who has worked on those articles but has been inactive for quite some time now. Gnanapiti 21:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Chalukyas
Hello Dinesh,

I am contacting you regarding the Chalukya page. I previously corresponded with you regarding your excellent work on the Vijayanagar article. However, I am concerned that you reinstated PHG's discredited reference to some baseless theory about the Chalukyas being descendants of the seleucids. PHG has had an unfortunate track record of claiming every indian dynasty as being influenced in some fashion by the greeks. in fact, he included unscholarly maps showing the indo greek kingdom extending all the way to Karnataka, and that the satavahanas were succeeded by greeks! His reference on the chalukya page adds no scholarly value. More importantly, as this is an encyclopedia, it is needlessly harming the readability of the article for those who are unfamiliar with the Chalukyas. Please understand that I respect your contributions and wish to remove that reference as it only adds to his notion of some greater Hellenistic era in India which is a vestige of european colonialism. I hope I have addressed your concerns. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.

Regards,

Devanampriya 02:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Dinesh,

Thanks for your post. I understand your concerns. My feeling, however (and I am completely neutral on the kannada telugu origin wars both here and on the vijayanagar page), is that at least there is a strong possibility for either Kannada or Telugu (especially considering their inscriptions and claims for descent). There is no corresponding evidence for the Seleucids. In fact, the user that posted that is trying to extend greek influence in any conceivable way--even through dismissed theories such as this one. As you may note on the indo greek page, there is not negotiation with that user. Therefore, could we please remove this as even that user wrote that the theory has been rejected by scholars? Thanks.

Regards,

Devanampriya 23:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Full speed ahead, Captain!
Dear Dinesh: I will start the "Musicians of Mysore Kingdom" copy editing first, then turn to the "Mysore Kingdom Literature" article. I will work as rapidly as my limited time permits. Namaste. Writtenright 00:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
 * Thank you for your offer of assistance on the "Mysore" articles; I am fairly sure that I'll be in need of it as I proceed. Writtenright 03:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)Writtenright

Mysore Kingdom literature
Please run a spell check on this article when you find time. It is an important subarticle for an upcoming FAC. Thanks for doing a check on Musicians of Mysore Kingdom.Dineshkannambadi 21:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've done the check on your article. Good luck with the FAC. Cheers, CmdrObot 21:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.Dineshkannambadi 21:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi. The Kingdom of Mysore is ready for Peer review. Please run a spell check on it if and when you have time. Thank you.Dineshkannambadi 03:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I've done a spell check. One thing I noticed (that my bot doesn't fix) is that in a few places you use American English spelling rather than British English. So there are a few words that use -ize/-ized/-izes rather than -ise/-ised/-ises. I hope the review goes well. Cheers, CmdrObot 11:40, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Krishnaraja Wodeyar III
Hi Dinesh,

I was thinking of making it a DYK, but please go ahead. I am now more interested in cleaning up Mysore -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 01:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Kingdom of Mysore
No problem. Would you like any help with the other Mysore-related articles? Damanmundine1 02:19, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Applaud you for your relentless efforts
Dear Dinesh,

I am really amazed at the wealth of your knowledge, and your personal wiki page about your books definetly helps me to buy some books to quench my thirst for south indian history.

Thank you for your contribution as it helps in understanding history with a different perspectives.

Brahma

Mysore
Hi Dinesh,

I am currently on a tour to Mysore and I am trying to capture as many photos as possible which can be used in Mysore related articles on Wikipedia. And as you have suggested, please do visit Mysore's heritage sites the next time you are here. They are worth more than a single visit though :) -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 07:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Mysore Kingdom literature
Thanks for the barnstar :) I've finished copyediting this article - incredible effort on all the Mysore Kingdom articles by the way - but I was wondering how necessary it was to have the metre of each work written alongside it. I'm no expert on the subject, so I haven't changed it around, but it seems like too much detail. Out of curiosity, what is the FAC that this article is related to? Damanmundine1 11:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Mysore Musicians
Dear Sir: I have edited the "Musicians of Mysore Kingdom" article to the best of my ability. I have hit two tangles that I feel only you can straighten out for me.

First: "...the king of Travencore, Baroda and Tanjore." Was this a single king who was king of three places (as Elizabeth II is queen of England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland), or should it rather read "...the kings of Travencore, Baroda and Tanjore."?

Second: "...for which he is known to have composed an English note." This use of the word "note" makes absolutely no sense to me. A "note" in music, as you well know, is a sound of a specific frequency and duration. A "note" in everyday usage, as you also well know, is a short writing to oneself or others. Help!

I would appreciate clarification. Namaste, Writtenright 04:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright

Mysore map
Hi Dinesh. Im hardly active on wikipedia nowadays due to my engg course, but do send the maps. If i have some free time this weekend, i shall make them. No promises tho --Plane Mad 19:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

DYK update
Congrats! --Espresso Addict 16:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:South India -- Blanking
I have issued the user a final warning for blanking and removing content from the page. Please let me know if the user continues to do so, as a block may be necessary. Nishkid64 (talk) 04:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Welcome back
Thanks Dinesh. It is a pleasure reading all your new creations. Phenomenal job!!! -- Naveen  (talk) 16:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:IP user
I don't know if this guy is using a shared, dynamic or static IP address. I suspect this user might be on a different IP in just a few hours, so that's why I made the block duration only 72 hours. Nishkid64 (talk) 18:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Image
I don't have the image of Bhadravati iron works as of now. I'll see if I can find one in flickr. Btw, do you want me to find and upload the images of Chowdiah and Sheshanna which I promised long back? :) Gnanapiti 19:18, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:OldKannada WesternChalukya inscription Haveri.JPG
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Kingdom of Mysore Religion section
Hi Dinesh I just finished copy editing the Religion section - there wasn't too much to do! I forgot to log in, so it's not attributed to me. I'm not sure how much of this section needs to be in the article, though, especially early on. I feel that the passage about the kings who wrote religious pieces is better placed (and maybe already is) in the Literature section.

Also, I know that you recently shortened the Administration section by creating a sub-article, but the article still seems to be too long. Maybe some of the other sections could be shortened and the content moved to sub-articles. Damanmundine1 07:14, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

KRS dam
Hi Dinesh,

I could not get any photos of inscriptions and all, but I took many photos which can be used Mysore article. I have uploaded KRS dam image. Pls use it in any article you want. I also have another of water flowing out of the dam, though the photo does not show the dam itself, let me know if you need it. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 17:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Kannada, Tamil and Malayalam
there discussion going in Talk:Malayalee article about origin of Malayalam with someone arguing that Kannada also has its roots on Old version of Tamil. Is this statement worth discussing? I am contradacting that. But not much refrences. is it fine for you to partcipate?Daya Anjali (talk / contribs) 06:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Aye, aye, sir!
Will continue work on Kingdom of Mysore and Mysore with all deliberate speed. Namaste, Writtenright 18:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
 * Will make every reasonable effort to have these two sub-articles completed by the 18th. Writtenright 18:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC) Writtenright
 * Dear Sir: Have gone over Kingdom of Mysore one more time to make it as cut and polished as a Mysore gemstone. Thank you for the opportunity to learn more about this fascinating subject, for which I am genuinely grateful. Namaste, Writtenright 01:46, 20 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
 * P.S.: Just noticed the "Copyeditor's Barnstar" award. You are much too kind. I thank you for the work. Keep me in mind when you write your next Wikipedia magnum opus - I'll be right behind you every step of the way. Writtenright 01:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
 * Dear Sir: Will start on new architecture article as soon as possible. Thank you for the work; I'm sure I will learn a lot. Namaste, Writtenright 22:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
 * Very good! Writtenright 18:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright

Kingdom of Mysore
I'll have a final look over the article over the next couple of days, but from what I've seen it's looking pretty good.

Just one little thing - at the moment, the literature article is named "Mysore kingdom literature". I think it should be moved, for consistency, to "Literature of the Kingdom of Mysore". If you agree, I'll do it today or tomorrow. Damanmundine1 &#124; Talk 04:05, 13 October 2007 (UTC) I've moved the articles, checked double redirects and made sure the sub-articles begin with Kingdom of Mysore instead of Mysore Kingdom. Once again, you're doing an incredible job with this article, and hopefully you'll be rewarded with (another) FA. Damanmundine1 (Talk) 13:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Karnataka DYK hits a century
Congrats!!! We have reached a significant milestone in the Karnataka WikiProject today when the 100th DYK related to Karnataka has been featured on the main page of Wikipedia.. You can see the entire list here.

Thanks a lot for your contributions in making this happen -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 02:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Economy of the Kingdom of Mysore, was selected for DYK!
Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Vijayanagara
Hello Dinesh, It appears that, the template KarnatakaHistory is missing in the article Vijayanagara Empire. Almost all the sections are equipped with the relevant images. Can you place this template at appropriate place? or let me know the best place where we can accommodate this. Thank you, - KNM Talk 16:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Al Gore
Thanks for your support too.--Tamás Kádár 16:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC) Al Gore article - FA quality--Tamás Kádár 16:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Western Chalukya Architecture
Thanks for the offer. I'm a bit busy at the moment but I'll try to help when I can, and I'm sure that article will be a success.

The Kingdom of Mysore article looks headed for FA status, so well done (hopefully I don't jinx it). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Damanmundine1 (talk • contribs) 09:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Will get to this as soon as I can. The architecture is extremely beautiful. I will try to do it justice. Writtenright 00:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)Writtenright

Lingaytism modification
Hello Dinesh, I think somewhere in the article it should be mentioned that Lingayatism ended up as a caste as opposed to the thinking of Basavanna (Greatest Irony). It is a fact and probably does not require any proofs. Lingayats ended up as one of the sternous caste fallowers. If my modification is not up to the Wiki, you can modify it (Since I am first time modifying a Wiki article). regards, --Jeevan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prasanna jeevandn (talk • contribs) 16:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jeevan, it does not matter whether you modify it or I do, so long as it comes with verifyable citation from a historian or any authority on the matter. The citation should at least come from a reliable website with name of author, publisher etc. and at best from a published book. Wikipedia is about verifyability. Whether it is a fact or not is not important.thanksDineshkannambadi 16:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dinesh, Linagayt is listed under the Indain castes in Wiki itself. I think this is sufficient to include the modification. Check List_of_Indian_castes in Wiki. regards --g1

Hi Jeevan, One cannot use info in one WIKI article as evidence for another wiki article. This is against wiki rules and is called "circular reasoning". However, if Lingayat is listed a a caste of Hinduism in a wiki article and it comes with a citation from a reliable source (book etc), you could use the same reference, do a google book search, verify that the statement exists in that book and then provide a citation from that book. BTW, whether it is a caste or not a caste of Hindusim is of no importance to me. I am only trying to help you make reasonable edits and follow wiki rules. thanks and best of luck.Dineshkannambadi 15:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

reply
Sourcing by attribution is explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Attributing_and_substantiating_biased_statements Sometimes it may be better to attribute in the lead. But a citation will definitely suffice.

"The actual location where Tipu died in battle in Srirangapatna has a monument in his memory, erected by the Government of Karnataka."

Then it may be rephrase as such: "ending in Tipu's death on the battlefield in Srirangapatna where he now has a monument in his memory, erected by the current Government of Karnataka in [enter date]," with internal links where appropriate. Now it explains the event's significance and being precise about it while not expressing POVs like whether he is a hero or not and letting the reader decide for themselves. Learnedo 01:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

When I said "Its court, which had famous artists and musicians, became a centre of Carnatic music." Reference some famous folks over here," I did not mean citations, I simply meant provide a few examples in the lead instead of giving that vague statement. Learnedo 02:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Well whenever the few things are cleared up, just let me know so I can go ahead and change my vote. Happy editing. Learnedo 02:27, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * All in all, it's not about checking off my points, it's about maintaining NPOV and your biases at bay while writing an article, and realizing POV issues as an editor without another person pointing it out. Learnedo 02:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You are welcome. Great work obliviously. Learnedo 02:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:Image rename
Hello Dinesh,  It is very simple. Just upload the image again in the name you want, and then list the current image for deletion. Please see this text from Requested Moves: ''Images: To rename an image, upload the image again, but with the name you want. Then change the relevant links to reflect the new name and list the old image at images and media for deletion.'' Hope this helps. - KNM Talk 15:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Template placement
I would think, the images are more relevant to this article, rather than the template. So, placing those relevant images in the lead make more sense, and you placed them well. Take a look at the current placement of the template...i believe it is fitting well there. Let me know if you see an issue there. We can work on a better placement. By the way, so far it has been an amazing job by you on that article!! Thanks - KNM Talk 15:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Reply:Images
Edit your image page and place this template:. Your reasoning could be as simple as, "I am the uploaded of this image, and I have uploader it under another name" or something like that. Thanks, - KNM Talk 15:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Reply:Transliterations
Sure. I'll take care of them. Thanks - KNM Talk 17:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks Dinesh for the encouragement. I'll try and see if I can keep up the tempo!

Bdeepu 05:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Maps of Asia showing Indian history
Hi Dineshkannambadi, what's wrong with adding a map of Asia in 800 AD to the article on Rashtrakuta? The map shows the borders of Rashtrakuta and its neighbors, something that neither of the other two maps show. In fact, the two existing maps on that article are essentially the same map. Please leave that map on the page. If you'd like it to highlight Rashtrakuta's borders, you can copy the map and edit it, then upload it as a new Rashtrakuta map and put it back on the page. Thomas Lessman 21:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Karnataka on Main Page
Congratulations!! It is on Main page now!!. Thanks for all your efforts!!! Also, ಕನ್ನಡ ರಾಜ್ಯೋತ್ಸವದ ಹಾರ್ದಿಕ ಶುಭಾಶಯಗಳು!!! Best Wishes of Karnataka Rajyotsava!. - KNM Talk 00:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Happy Rajyotsava Dinesh. We are blessed and honored to have an awesome editor like you. Gnanapiti 00:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ರಾಜ್ಯೋತ್ಸವದ ಶುಭಾಷಯಗಳು. It will be even sweeter this time with the appearance of Karnataka on the front page. Your dedication and effort in featuring history-related articles on Karnataka is awesome. -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 01:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * ರಾಜ್ಯೋತ್ಸವದ ಶುಭಾಷಯಗಳು. Thanks for all your efforts in featuring more and more of WP:KAR articles-- Naveen  (talk) 02:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Karnataka
See WP:NOPRO. The Main Page FA is only protected in cases of high IP vandalism. To be honest, the level of vandalism is very manageable (30-40 reverts in 15+ hours). In cases where you might see 10-15 vandalism edits per hour, then protection would be appropriate. Also, there are a number of people watchlisting the article, which means the pages will be reverted much more easily if someone vandalizes the page. Nishkid64 (talk) 15:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * While I am hesitant about page protection, the level of vandalism seems to have increased after the above post. So, I have semi-protected the page. But, please get it unprotected in a few hours and reprotect only if needed. I'd have advanced the expiry time myself, but I'm going to be offline and it may not be possible for me to change it later. I leave it to you people to decide. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 16:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That's acutally quite low. Some articles get 10 vandalisms an hour, some even twenty, but yeah, it's policy to not lock.  Blnguyen  ( bananabucket ) 01:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Happy Rajyotsava
Thanks, Dinesh and wish you happy Rajyotsava too :)

Bdeepu 17:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Commons
Actually thats good! Commons is a common repository of media files such as images, for Wikipedias in all languages. That means, the image you have uploaded is usable by Wikipedias in Kannada, Gujarathi, Malayalam, Greek, Latin, French and every other language. You can still easily use those images, as if they are in English wikipedia repository. So, do not worry about it. Thanks, - KNM Talk 14:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you, Dinesh! :) Nishkid64 (talk) 20:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[Western Chalukya Architecture]
Hi. This article is now getting ready for PR. Please give it a spell check when you have time.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 02:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * OK. I've spell checked it now. Cheers, CmdrObot 14:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Have just gone over Western Chalukya Architecture. I learned a valuable lesson: not to edit image captions, no matter how spelled or capitalised. Namaste, Writtenright 01:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Writtenright


 * Please read the text over carefully and make sure that it is what you meant to say. I have tried my very best, but it is not my area of expertise, to say the least. Writtenright 01:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Writtenright

Kingdom of Mysore -> FA
Congratulations! Great job. Thanks, - KNM Talk 04:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations Dinesh. Yet another feather on the cap. Thanks for the excellent article. Gnanapiti 04:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Great job Dinesh!! Congrats on yet another FA. Looking forward to your 10th History/Architecture FA on Karnataka -- Naveen  (talk) 13:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

This one took slightly longer, mostly because of the two large sub-articles on literature and Music. But finally...Dineshkannambadi 15:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Congrats, Dinesh. I wonder if there is anybody else in Wiki who is churning out FA's in as fast a pace as you are... Great job!!! -- ¿Amar៛ Talk to me / My edits 06:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

official Language
the link given by amar is a gazetted notification. If u read the full notice you'll understand http://dpal.kar.nic.in/26%20of%201963%20(E).pdf

moreover, all gazetted notifications of karnataka state govt are issued in english too

Your behaviour is too rude. When i gave u the citation, you are now asking me to discuss it at the natioanl level & come back.. very silly... any case i'm least bothered if u think that only you can decide what is to be written in karnataka article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazysoul (talk • contribs) 07:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Kingdom of Mysore
Hi,

I left you some comments on Kingdom of Mysore here. I just thought I would bring it to your attention, as suggested to me by KNM. Congratulations of writing another FA! ImpuMozhi 18:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I will take a close look at this ASAP, perhaps this weekend.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 18:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Kingdom of Mysore- Comments by user:ImpuMozhi

 * Comment. Page needs work, mostly connected to language issues. I take up only the “religion” section here, since it raises issues beyond just language.
 * The Mysore kings were predominantly Hindu Vaishnavas.
 * The formal sectarian affiliation of the ruling family is an important point and definitely requires a reputable citation. Particularly since the belief (IMO accurate) is common that the Wodeyars belong to the Shaivite Lingayat sect.

Dk Reply My books dont say that. All the info is on their Vaishnava leanings. In fact some scholars question the firm treatment on Lingayats by Chikkadevaraja Wodeyar ( I believe, but I can verify). If you can provide a citation that were Lingayats, then I would be glad to address the sentence. I will add a citation or citations for my sentence.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The numerous Vishnu temples built by them are testimony to their adherence to the Vaishnava faith.
 * WP:OR. Personally, I would not have this sentence even if I did find one or the other published work saying something to this effect. It makes me wonder whether “predominantly” in the preceding sentence indicates similar wishful extrapolations, based, say, on first names or gifts to temples. We should not infer from SM Krishna’s name that he is or his family is Vaishnava.

DK Reply I have addressed this sentence.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The Yoga Narasimha Temple and the Cheluvanarayana Swamy Temple at Melkote came under the patronage of the kings of Mysore.
 * So what? Numerous other temples did, and these are relatively minor ones. WP:UNDUE.

Dk Reply I have removed this sentence. BTW, their patronage to these temples was not minor. A large quantity of their jewellery was donated to the temple.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The rise of Mysore as a centre of south Indian culture has been traced to this period.
 * Erase, meaningless sentence. What period, anyway? 1399-1947?

Dk Reply I respectfully disagree. Thats what two of my books say. The period is from around 1600 to 1947 from when Mysore became independent. I have added this info.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Raja Wodeyar I initiated the celebration of the Dasara festival in Mysore, a proud tradition of the erstwhile Vijayanagara royal family. However, the kings were tolerant to other sects and religious faiths. This is evidenced by the high ranking non-Vaishnavites in their courts...
 * For one, the sequence of sentences suggests (unintendedly, I’m sure) that the Vaishnavite Dasara (Sri Rama Jayam) is what was celebrated by the rulers of Mysore. Not so. Also, a small detail: Dasara is a timeless tradition in Mysore, and it used to be presided over by the Vijayanagara viceroy of Srirangapatna before the Wodeyars took charge in the mid 1600s.

Dk Reply That's not what my book by Pranesh says and I have to quote what the scholar writes. Even if you are right about the Vijayanagara viceroy having overseen the Dasara in Srirangapatna earlier to Raja Wodeyar, it would be considered a Vijayanagara event, not a Mysore "festival" at that time (1399-1600). If you can provide a citation that the viceroy did so before the Mysore kings at Mysore, then I will gladly append that to the sentence.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ...and also the fact that many of the Mysore queens were Jains.
 * Is a publication entitled “Bahubali of Jainbadri (Shravanabelagola) and other Jain Shrines of Deccan” (Jain and Jain, 1953) really a reliable source for this? They may have been respectful of the Jain faith, made gifts, been liberal, all of which you say in many places, but did they ever convert to Jainism? And how many is “many”?

DK Reply I did not say they converted to Jainsim. Just that some queens were Jains. And why would that book by Jain and Jain be considered unreliable. They dont claim the kings were Jains, just a few queens and related noble families.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The contact between South India and Islam goes back to the 7th century when trade between Hindu kingdoms and Islamic caliphates thrived. These Muslim traders settled on the Malabar coast and married local Hindu women, and their descendants came to be known as Mappillas. By the 14th century, Muslims had become a significant minority in the south, though the advent of Portuguese missionaries checked their growth.
 * Erase, since none of these sentences is relevant to Mysore state. However, having some related relevant content, if properly annotated, may not be a bad idea.
 * The spread of Christianity in South India has been traced back to the arrival of the Portuguese on the west coast. It was through the patronage of these devout Roman Catholics that chaplains and missionaries went to various regions to encourage people to join the Christian faith. Some evidence, however, suggests that not all of these conversions were peaceful and that the Portuguese soldiers may also have undertaken coercive methods to achieve their ends. Saint Francis Xavier, perhaps the most respected Christian saint in India, gave a new boost to the growth of Christianity. He traveled from village to village, healing the sick, burying the dead and doing what he could to reduce the miseries of the poor and underprivileged. The institutions established in his name are a testimony to his popularity and achievements.
 * Ditto as above. Really, the rambling is getting out of hand. See WP:Summary. Besides, this is factually inaccurate, as the Mar Thoma christians claim a an origin predating the Portuguese presence in India.
 * Lo Cinnami, a Jesuit from Goa, was the founder of the Mysore mission.
 * At last, something relevant! Can we have more detail (when, what place exactly, appointed by whom, to what effect...) and maybe a citation? This is the kind of stuff that you should replace the paragraphs mentioned above with.
 * The Portuguese patronage called Padraodo was suppressed by the Propaganda of the more hostile European powers, including the English, the French, the Dutch and the Danes....Tranquebar....Lutheran church....absorbed by the Anglican church....
 * What does the first sentence mean?? What were the specific effects on Mysore? And the rest (or the whole) can be entirely omitted. Is the micro-mini nitty-gritty of Christian missions really of importance to a summary article on Mysore, given that the Christian population of Mysore has always been miniscule?

Consolidated Dk Reply All the above sentences are intended to show that Mysore religion did not evolve in isolation. Events in the Madras Presidency, Malabar etc. all had an effect on religion and culture in Mysore. This is what I have tried to portray. The same with social issues like Sati, Untouchability etc. Social movements in other parts of India, even as far away as Bengal had its influence on Mysore. This method of describing religion and society has been consistent with other FA's.Dineshkannambadi 19:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Other points:
 * King Chamaraja Wodeyar IV made a contribution of four villages (Change to “endowment” or “grant”)

Dk  DoneDineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * They opine that Tipu administered mass conversions of Christians and Hindus...(change wording, drop "administered")

DK please provide alternate sentence. I will add it so long as it does not deviate too much from what the scholars (Kamat, Chopra et al.) have written.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Correct the spelling of “Palyagars” to “Paleygars” or “Polegars”

DK done.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Create stubs and link to the first instances of all the rulers' names,

DK This will take some time but is on my priority list anyway.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Remove the folktale of Naraaraja Wodeyar’s wrestling match in Trichy, per WP:UNDUE and WP:Summary.

DK Two scholars, Kamath and Pranesh mention his wrestling skills. Why call it folk tales. The history of Mysore is quite well documented. In fact it is supposed to have been described in detail in the writing of court poet Govinda Vaidya, who wrote a eulogy of his patron King Narasaraja Wodeyar called Kanteerava Narasaraja Vijayam, an important source of Mysore history. The writing is mentioned in the Literature section.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Change “Jain royal families” to “Jain noble families.” They were arasus and polegars under the Wodeyar rulers, right?

Dk Reply Done.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The map in the lead shows the extent of the kingdom at its peak, c.1784. In historical terms, this lasted for an eye-blink of time. At its rendition in 1881, the state was considerably larger than it had ever been before the time of Tipu. This, after a large portion of the state had been annexed during the Anglo-Mysore wars! IMO the map in the lead should be of the Raj-era princely state, because that was the longest period of stable borders. The present lead map could be moved to the history section.

Dk Reply Actually the map is consistent with all other India History FA. If you look at the Chola dynasty article, one would want to believe the Cholas ruled the Gangetic plains for 250 years. But that is not the case. They captured the lower gangetic plains and held it for a short period of time only. The Rashtrakutas captured the upper Gangetic plains and held it for a few decades at best. This is why in my maps I always add the date to give an indication when the kingdom was at its largest. Also, this is the period (1760-1799) that historians generally focus on w.r.t "Political history" of Mysore Kingdom. where as they focus on 1650-1750 and 1800-1947 while describing the the cultural history of Mysore kingdom.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a great deal of work that could be done on the rest of the article also. Problems of relevance and due weight exist also in the “society” section and elsewhere. Why is it imperative for us to be informed, in the literature section, that "...the Mysore court (was) adorned by famous writers and composers, many of who were Vaishnava by faith ..."

Dk If I were writing about the Kalachuri Kingdom or as I have about the Western Chalukya Empire, I have similarly indicated that most scholars were Jains or Lingayats, because this is how it was. The scholars I have referenced from have mentioned it. This is not my make up, just the scholars opinions.Dineshkannambadi 20:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Please have the page thoroughly copyedited and vetted for perspective. I would suggest Fowler, for both diligence and perspective. Regards, ImpuMozhi 05:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Re
Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate that you made several changes sentences based on my feedback.
 * I look forward to citations concerning the formal sectarian affiliation of the Wodeyar dynasty.

DK I will provide the necessary. If I find any contrary evidence, I will add that too.Dineshkannambadi 00:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

DK I have added 5 citations for some of the important kings. I have not bothered to add citations for queens such as Cheluvambe, crown prince Kanteerava Narasimharaja Wodeyar etc who wrote Vaishnava treatises and compositions on the deities Venkateshwara, Vittala etc to avoid cramming up to many citations. Not much info is available regarding other kings. If I do come across some info I will add it.Dineshkannambadi 02:48, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you do not wish to erase "The rise of Mysore as a centre of south Indian culture has been traced to this period," then I suggest you say "Mysore city." Your books surely do not imply that south Karnataka, under the Hoysalas and others, did not contribute to south Indian culture.

Dk I will make that change. Done. Its is not that the Other Empires did not contribute to the culture, just that the Mysore period brought many facets together. Music, Drama, theatre, main stream literature etc. Also, you must understand that as we get closer to present day India, its history is better and better known from more and more documents and inscriptions.Dineshkannambadi 00:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The point I raised about Dasara were apparently lost amid my talkativeness (woods for trees). The point is: is it the Vaishnavite dasara (Ramajayam) that is celebrated in Mysore and by the Wodeyars? Or is it the victory of Chamundeshwari over Mahishasura? The sequence of sentences gives that impression that it is the former. Please clarify.

Dk This point is not clear in my sources. It just says Dasara celebrations were initiated in Mysore from the time of Raja Wodeyar.Dineshkannambadi 00:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Similarly, my point about the incognito wrestling match was only that this is trivial, (WP:Undue and WP:Summary, as I said) and I did not mean anything derogatory in saying "folktale." After all, you also call it a "popular account," and many native speakers of English (and Pranesh!) may understand "popular account" differently from what you intend.
 * Which brings me to both language issues and relevance. Do consider having the article copyedited thoroughly, we do need to better explain stuff like "The Portuguese patronage called Padraodo was suppressed by the Propaganda of the more hostile European powers..." and sections other than religion need to be looked into.

DK its simple. The Portuguese patronage was called Padraodo while that of the other European powers was called Propaganda. They were in direct conflict. This is what I understand from the book by Chopra et al. The fall of Portuguese power in the south snuffed out their missioanry activities while that of their competitors flourished.Dineshkannambadi 00:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

You are right about the map in the Chola article, and I suppose this is the trend in Indian history articles, as one may expect. I also well appreciate your point about trends outside its boundaries having an impact on Mysore and its society. One of the good things about your FA articles is that you write about society, arts etc and not just about political history as many people would tend to do. The question is only of WP:Undue and of drawing some connection to trends within Mysore. Maybe some more refining will occur if the article is copyedited. On the whole, it is a good article and clearly required a great deal of effort on your part. Regards, ImpuMozhi 00:24, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

DK The article has been through several rounds of copy edits from reviewers from various countries, not just India. I dont see the need for a fresh round of copy edits other than me providing more citations where you expect it and any changes there in. If you insist on a fresh round of copy edits, it would have to be at your effort to bring it up at whatever level you feel like, or by whoever is encouraging you in this process :)Dineshkannambadi 00:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoever is encouraging me in this process?? What do you mean? Who do you think is "encouraging" me in this process?? ImpuMozhi 03:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

No offence meant, I am not thinking of anyone and if there is none, then all is fine.Dineshkannambadi 04:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Wodeyars
Mr DK,

I saw your message. What i inserted was internal links of wiki which was mainly my own work. I saw your comments on JCRW was inadequate, hence the insertion, because i did not want to meddle with your work. I do not know whether you have obtained permission from Dr. Meera Rajaram, as your work is largely inspired from her book. Rajachandra 19:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC) Mr. DK

well my contributions under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wodeyar has been there for few years now. I appreciate your efforts. I was present when the book by Dr. Meera was released !

Rajachandra 19:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC) What exactly do you mean when you say: Chamaraja Wodeyar IX was the adopted son of Maharani Lakshmi Ammani Devi ? In the first place Chamaraja Wodeyar IX was born long after the death of Venerable Maharani !! I am sorry by seeing the assertive tone of your messages, i have not corrected your article !!! MAharani LAkshammani adopted Khasa Chamaraja Wodeyar and after his death she was pushed to a miserable hovel along with the rest of the Family. She had negotiated with the British  to put Restore the Wodeyars. After the death of Tipu in 1799, She played significant role in the upbringing of the young Mummadi and also played role in the administartion of Mysore.

Rajachandra —Preceding comment was added at 20:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The question of Wodeyars origin other than what you have stated is at best a biased surmise and is not backed by any historical records. But the most accepted and recorded in all books including Annals of the Royal family and History of Mysore by Hayavadana Rao is the popular version of Dwaraka /Yadu Dynasty connections despite the reservation.

Rajachandra 20:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I see large part of your citations are based on news paper reports !! Again you have stated: The Wodeyars had lost the throne of Mysore to Hyder Ali in the year 1766..

Factually, it may be a de facto situation. But Hyder was serving Immadi Krishna Raja  as a Sarvadhikari and with the failed efforts to curtail his ascendancy by his old friend Diwan Khande Rao and his old mentor Karachuri Nanajaraja ( father in law of immadi and virtual ruler of Mysore after the death of Dodda Krishna Raja along with his brother Dalvoy Devaraja), Hyder became the master of  the court. But still he publicly continued to accept the King as his master and went on installing successors after immadi's death. It is also alleged he was instrumental in the death of immadi's two sons when they came off age. He was also adopting & instrumental in installing Khas Chamaraja as king. It is only after the death of Hyder and the death of Khasa in 1996 this pretension was given go by by Tipu. Well i can go on and on.

Rajachandra 20:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I live in India and yesterday it was already too late hence i logged off.

Due to frequent threat of rogue deletions, i have abstained from writing in wiki for quite some time. Yet a wild google search led me to the Mysore Composers thread and seeing some painting appaering along side KRW III, i uploaded a rare picture. Immediately i got a message asking me to react to a threat of speedy deletion. Before i realized i also got in to discussion with you on various aspects and ended up in burning midnight oil and getting up with severe migraine !!

To summarize my view points  again:

1. I disagree with you on the copyright issue. As your postings are generously sourced from DR. Meera's book which is based on doctoral thesis by the author,  i strongly feel it does violate the copyright act 1957. Existence of wiki has no bearing on it. I do not think even wiki supports such a flagrant violation of coy right.

2. I also do not approve of duplicating of works which has already been in wiki for a long time. You could have built and added on the existing articles. Now to have one King KRW IV and another Maharaja KRW IV is making mockery of the free wiki space available.

3. As for as the origin of Wodeyars, i do not understand the grouse of the so called Historians. If India is marauded by so many infiltrators  and Ruled, how can two young men claiming to come from Dwaraka or any other place and saving  a damsel in distress and being accepted by the locals and living ever so happily there after and Ruling the small principality  600 years ago be  questioned by some doubting thomoses now ! Where is the question of exhibiting some dazzling titles or ancestry figure in here. There is no historical evidence to doubt there story either. yes, theer is nothing to support it either. That is the tragedy of Wodeyars. Because what ever family records which might have been there in their in the fabled Saraswathi Bhandar were consigned to cook horse gram by Tipu    after the death of Khasa Chamaraja when the Old Palace itself was destroyed but for a small collection which fell in to hands  Britishers. Thanks Mark Wilks the first printed History of Wodeyars was published. All subsequent works seems to owe some amount of credit to his work. Much work in rebuilding the Saraswathi Bhandar by KRW III seems to have again lost in the devastating fire of the old palace in 1896. Much encyclopedic work was done by both Rice & C. Hayavadana Rao and after words no modern original research has been done. Any speculation in this regard without original research only leaves bad taste in the mouth and is case of caste connotations. I attended a Seminar few years back where a very biased speaker said wodeyars were cow herds ! So do not get carried by what you read unless you have a something original to say. Otherwise it is like after another hundred years some one saying Actor Ganesh a Known Nepali ruling the Kannada Silver Screen could not have come from Nepal just because you do not want to accept it.

4. I have not read your articles as i did not have the time and occasion to read in its entirety as already narrated. I just got sucked in to a post- repost marathon ! Yet when i completed reading just the first para on KRW III, i had pointed out  how many errors there were( whether done by you or otherwise). I quote specific lines and my comments were purely based on thoes specific references. Take again the example of notes: # ^ a b Rajakaryaprasakta Rao Bahadur (1936), p265. It is either some one has not read the book first hand or does not even know that Rajakaryaprasakta Rao Bahadur is just then title of the Author. C.Hayavadana Rao ( Editor of Mysore Gazetteer ). Actually copies in my possession does not even mention these titles. It must have been what some one else has quoted in some other works. Also These Gazetteer are not single Volume works. So mention of age number mentioned does not make sense.

%. I strongly feel these comments should actually appear in the discussion pages of the relevant article instead of in our personal pages for the benefit of others.

5. I neither have the time and energy to get in to a dialog with you in this regard. What i have expressed is my sincere views as you claimed you authored this article after lots of research. Good luck to you !

Rajachandra 18:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Rajachandra/Dinesh - Can one of you move this discussion to an article space talk page? So that other editors can involve in this discussion? Probably Talk:Wodeyar or Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Karnataka would be better place to discuss. Thanks - KNM Talk 19:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)