User talk:Diskriminierung

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World Vision sources
Hello. On the English Wikipedia World Vision talkpage I wrote that World Vision is a "non-religious relief organization." I provided no sources for this. I still have no sources for this, but despite that I feel that this is one of the functions of the organization. Another of the functions is evangelicalism in the sense of convincing non-Christians to adopt the Christian religion.

I live near the World Vision international headquarters and I took a tour of their site in December 2009. I wrote about it on my blog but this is not a reliable source and I think it would not contain information useful to helping you with your article work.

I am writing you now to mention that World Vision has a museum in their offices. The museum is a chronicle of World Vision non-religious relief work talking about things like establishing healthcare, education, and civil rights programs. It does not promote religion, so the organization has a non-religious face which it can show to people interested in non-religious relief. I have tried to get paper copies of business models, training guides, and other internal documents from them. I am not sure they forbid sharing these things, but at least they do not make it easy to access them. If it would be helpful to you, I could talk to you about asking them for other documents, but I do not think their business model allows them to give a straight answer about when they do religious work and when it is not religious.

I would also be very interested to see the kind of documentation for which you are looking.  Blue Rasberry  16:15, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * First of all - the biggest Problem of en.wikipedia (and You) is not stritctly to discriminate between World Vision US (WV US) and World Vision International (WVI). Before we start I give you a short overview of the ties between them and the differences.
 * WV US holds the trademark "World Vision" and lends it to other organisations like WVI. WV US was found by Pierce who was not only an journalist but also an evangelist for Youth for Christ. So there is continuing evidence that WV US was proselyting at least until the 1980ies. But short before Mooneyham got president of WV US and founded WVI as an independent international umbrella organisation (It was intended to spend all the money while the national organizations should raise it). Since Monneyham took a lot of the WV US-staff with him when he got President of the new WVI he took the proselyting and the conservative-evangelical influence problably with him to WVI. But WV Canada, New Zealand and Australia wanted more power in the international organization (WV New Zealand and Australia are theological more liberal) and while WVI grew the influence of WV US ceased to a certain point (Nowadays "only" half of the WVI-Budget comes from WV US). In the 1990ies they established their Partnership which gives more power to the worldwide offices in planning the future of WVI. The influnce of the US-section ceased more, when the latest President of WVI moved his office towards London.
 * Meanwhile WVI, the UN, the UK, the Reda Cross and other global players in relief work created rules for such aid. According to this rules (which WVI signed) no proselyting is allowed while in disaster relief work. But no such convention was made concerning long-time development cooperation. So WVI as christian development organisatione uses christian local churches to do their work, if this is allowed. Where this is - in strongly muslim countries - not possible they hire non-Christian staff. But as far as I can see WVI does not proselyte active. In their core values they emphasize to be witnesses. That is problably: If somebody asks christian staff members about their belief and why they help they will have Bibles and what else is necessary. But they will not promote crusades or something similar. And third they work openly with christian churches in the countries of the donators. E.g. the built the Christian [[Image:Pavillon of Hope (Manfred Röben).jpg|50px]] for the Expo 2000 or promoted a Gospel-Song-Contest on TV.

Most of this you can read in and some German sources. But these sources are treated as not reliable by my opponents, because Whaites was a UK-staff member of WVI and Barletts case-paper is deemed not to be scientific because it is for students.
 * Alan Whaites: „Pursuing partnership: World Vision and the ideology of development – a case study“, in: Development in Practice, Vol. 9, No 4, August 1999, 415 ff. and
 * Christopher A. Bartlett; Daniel F. Curran: World Vision International´s AIDS Initiative: Challenging a Global Partnership.] In: Harvard Business School Publishing 2005)

On the other Hand Balmer writes in his encyclopedia, 2004 the WVI would be still evangelical and include "Bible distributing, church planting and mission research." But it is not sure if he really describes WVI oder confused it with WV US. I found several such confusions relating to WV in his enyclopedia. Futhermore in Germany there is a special translation problem with his terminus "evangelical" because we can translate this word in two ways either as conservative protestant group called "evangelikal" or as protestants called "evangelisch" which both could be a mistake because other sources like Kristof (And WVI itself) indicate that WVI is interdenominational including Catholics, Pentecost and all other Christians denominations.
 * Randall Herbert Balmer: "Encyclopedia of evangelicalism" Baylor University Press; Rev Exp edition (November 2004)
 * Nicolas D. Kristof: Learning From the Sin of Sodom. New York Times vom 28. Februar 2010

At least WV US is a religious organization see Sylvia Spencer, et al v. World Vision Inc., but WVI is religious only two-third: In development cooperation and in donor countries they act as Christians (The actions in donor countries depend to the independent local office), in disaster relief work they act secular. But as a whole there are the binding core values of WVI which state that WVI is Christian "while being sensitive to the diverse contexts in which we express that identity."
 * Summary

I ask myself how far it is important that WVI is Christian. This depends on how its nowadays actions are Christian or secular. Therefore I search recent documentation on the fact that WVI is recognized by official US- government agencies, scientists or notable public newspapers as non-religious relief organization oder at least in certain projects non-religious-acting. Probably this is necessary to get USAID subsidies. But my skills in official formal English and US-law-terms and my knowledge of notable US-sources are to bad to research this on my own. --Diskriminierung (talk) 09:34, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * What you say is very interesting, and I might be interested in helping you find more sources, but right now my understanding of the differences between the organizations is not thorough and I have not had time to read the sources you provided.
 * I do feel like I understand well enough to support a change to the structure of the article. I am not sure that there are enough sources to justify having a separate article for WVI and WV-US, or for WV offices in other countries, but at least I think that it would be best to rename the article title to World Vision International, then create a section heading for World Vision US just to differentiate those two.  Then later someone can add section headings for other countries or split the headings into separate articles.
 * Have you seen this article about the court case between WV and Spencer? The situation was that Spencer was not a Christian so World Vision US terminated Spencer's employment.  This just happened at the end of August.
 * Can you recommend a source which compares WVI and WV-US? I think having that would make it easy to make huge changes to the structure of the article.  Blue Rasberry  16:06, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry that I haven't been here around for such a long time.

Good Sources are Curran and Bartlett or Whaites --Diskriminierung (talk) 13:17, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * „Pursuing partnership: World Vision and the ideology of development – a case study“, in: Development in Practice, Vol. 9, No 4, August 1999, S. 411. - it should be available for free online somewhere
 * Bartlett, Christopher A. & Daniel F. Curran: World Vision International´s AIDS Initiative: Challenging a Global Partnership, in Harvard Business School Publishing 2005 - Permalink

Reality
Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia. Such edits are considered vandalism and quickly undone. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox instead. Thank you. Nufy8 (talk) 15:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I really didn't consider my edit as nonsense. --Diskriminierung (talk) 14:43, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

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