User talk:DoSazunielle

Your submission at Articles for creation: Omar Blondin Diop (October 2)
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KylieTastic (talk) 19:58, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: The Swaziland News (October 6)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by KylieTastic was:

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KylieTastic (talk) 18:39, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

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Your Question at Requests for adminship/John M Wolfson
I can see that you're a fairly new user, so I'd like to start by thanking you for getting involved with Wikipedia. That being said, I'd also like to respectfully request that you remove your question to John M Wolfson asking about his political beliefs. As a rule, Wikipedians focus on content, not the contributor. Asking about his political beliefs isn't really relevant to his abilities as an editor and RfA candidate. OhKayeSierra (talk) 23:46, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The RfA candidate already answered your question, so my request for you to voluntarily remove it is a moot point now. That being said, I cannot stress this enough: Wikipedia is not a battleground and political views have no bearing on how an editor approaches their work. I strongly urge you to focus on content, not the contributor. OhKayeSierra (talk) 23:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm a little confused about the battleground thing, since I was not and (to my knowledge) have never been in some kind of conflict with the person being nominated. The third question asked was about editing conflicts and stress, which seems to suggest to me that it's okay to ask about how "personal" attributes affect work done on the site, so I'm a little surprised to be told it was wrong to even ask the question when the person is free to respond or not respond as they see fit. DoSazunielle (talk) 00:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * @ - DoSazunielle simply asked how the candidate's political views may affect their editing and you are accusing the user of treating Wikipedia as a battleground? Sorry, but you seem to be unreasonably assuming bad faith here. Foxnpichu (talk) 11:05, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * (and DoSazunielle), the first line of WP:BATTLEGROUND states that Wikipedia is not a place to hold grudges, import personal conflicts, carry on ideological battles, or nurture prejudice, hatred, or fear. Making personal battles out of Wikipedia discussions goes directly against our policies and goals. Although I sincerely doubt it was intentional, I still think that the question might fit the bill for that threshold. In my experience, users who view editing through a partisan lens tend to, more often than not, be on the receiving end of a disruptive editing block for it. My messages above were an attempt to encourage the user to avoid it, since I felt that it was an unintentional mistake. That being said, I apologize if I worded my message a bit too harshly. OhKayeSierra (talk) 12:00, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Kaye. I appreciate your response. As far as I can tell, Sazunielle's question was asked in a neutral manner. Foxnpichu (talk) 16:18, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The question  was unfortunately totally  inadmissible. The fact  that  you  are a new user with  little or no Wikipedia experience and  not really enough  to  be participating  in  an RfA  just  yet is no  excuse for what  should be ordinary common sense and respect for people's privacy which  we hold for sacred on  Wikipedia. However, although we're mercifully  tolerant  here at  Wikipedia, we do  not  aspire to  being  social educators, so while we  need all  the help  we can get, please be mindful if you  are going  to  be  involved in our back rooms so  early  in  your  Wiki-career, choose something  easier and/or more urgent to do and you'll  enjoy  your time here and get  all  he help  you  need.   Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't👏come👏down👏like👏a👏ton👏of👏bricks. You say not really enough to be participating in an RfA see Requests_for_adminship: All Wikipedians—including those without an account or not logged in ("anons")—are welcome to comment and ask questions in an RfA Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 12:45, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with . Candidates in most well-known elections are required to declare their political loyalties, so it is wrong, but not contrary to common sense that a newcomer to Wikipedia assumed the same applies in an election here. We should be kinder to newcomers. I was one not too long ago and I remember how overwhelming it was. if you ever need help or support navigating any part of Wikipedia, you're most welcome to drop me a message on my talk page. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 15:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't want far rights Nazis here either. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 15:50, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, most of this controversy comes from the fact that newer and/or less popular users are more likely to be given flack for making mistakes. Foxnpichu (talk) 15:56, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Man, someone really has to reread Please do not bite the newcomers. While I didn't like the question either, this user is new and probably didn't understand all of the quirks of Wikipedia. Your post feels like such a hostile way to handle this. Andrew nyr (talk, contribs) 16:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Read my post again  -  it's got absolutely nothing whatsoever about him  being a newbie or 'quirks of Wikipedia', and my  comment  was polite and helpful to  the extent  of being  almost  obsequious. Ask a question  like that  of a stranger in an English pub and you'll be told to  mind your own f'ing business in  no  uncertain  terms, if they  don't  actually  escort  you  to  the door to  boot -  provided you're your old enough  to  be in  a pub in  the first  place... Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:25, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ask a question like that of a stranger in an English pub ???? This is no pub, this is RfA! The election for one of the most important offices in Wikipedia!Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 16:36, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Respectfully, I see many AGF failures here. It is most certainly correct that editors who openly express views which go against equalities or human rights-based legislation are disruptive and may not be here to build an encyclopaedia. I seriously doubt DoSazunielle was being inflammatory with their line of questioning. Patient Zerotalk 17:11, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * To be fair, when you are at a pub, you are generally minding your own business and not putting yourself forward for people to examine you. Foxnpichu (talk) 20:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That much is true, . Although if the individual were not wearing a face covering then they should not be surprised to find themselves examined. I have no clue how this pertains to the analogy but it is rather apt for 2020. Patient Zerotalk 20:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I suppose. Never thought about that. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * and others who don't grasp the analogy I was making, either do not understand the enormous importance in our Wikipedia culture of respecting people's privacy (that's one of the reasons why we misguidedly still allow editing by IPs), or they don't understand British social culture which may be an enigma for our cousins across the water, or Asia where I live and people don't give a damn either way, or just aren't old enough to enter a pub anyway - which leads me to believe that some editors are still in grade school or high school and don't realise that many Wikipedia editors are are old enough to be their grandparents and have a solid academic career behind them. Please, people, just look  before you leap - Wikipedia is serious stuff, not  a MMORPG or something  to  do on your knee with a hand-held while the teacher isn't  looking. Anyway, it's all moot now because  DoSazunielle has now been blocked. That said, to AGF a little bit, their lack of discretion in their RfA question was probably just due to naïvety.  Before my retirement, I was one of the most committed editors to helping  new users, and BTW, for years I  also   did more than any other single editor to try  and get  the venue of RFA cleaned up from  all  the nonsense that  sadly  still  goes on  there. See also: WP:Advice for RfA voters. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:44, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , I don't mean to undervalue your contributions to Wikipedia or support for new editors, which are clearly outsize on both counts. I was educated in Cambridge and am familiar with British social culture, but neither the British accent nor your seniority comes through on text, so I misread the tone of your message and I imagine the others did too. I joined in to add a voice of support for the new editor who was being pilloried on all sides both at the RfA and then increasingly on their own talk page too. Being a new editor on Wikipedia is overwhelming enough as it is. I thought it quite sufficient that we all agreed that John didn't have to answer the question (though he did in exemplary fashion) and that Sazunielle was informed that it was an inappropriate one to ask. As you say, the issue is now moot pending their unblock appeal. I hope you do continue to spend time on Wikipedia, perhaps with the newer editors who come with enthusiasm and without political baggage. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I’m 20 years old and from Scotland, so that doesn’t exactly apply to me. Foxnpichu (talk) 09:46, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm in my twenties, from the UK, and don't appreciate the ageist and condescending attitude. I'm in my final year of an undergraduate degree and intend on applying for a PhD if I am able to skip my Masters. I've also been here for many years and certainly don't see Wikipedia as some sort of online game; I have always taken it rather seriously. I would also posit that, if anything, a lot of younger people tend to be more aware of issues in the world these days. I have younger cousins who surprise me with their political knowledge. Patient Zerotalk 14:41, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In fact, I think it's fair to say that, given that you could've just looked at the userpages of, and I, that your comments implying we are all children are uncalled for. Patient Zerotalk 14:43, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, come on. Just because we are young British people doesn't automatically make us clueless chavs. Regardless, can we please stop arguing? I feel this conversation is getting really silly. Foxnpichu (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Blocked for socking?

 * - Exactly who do you think DoSazunielle is a sockpuppet of? Foxnpichu (talk) 20:42, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I had asked ST47 for their opinion just before I made the block myself, not realizing there was cross over on End SARS with these two users. But yes, the user involved is 623mutaNadu. This can always be identified by looking in my block log and see if there is a user blocked with the same reason. Beyond that, it is also clear, these two accounts aren't the person's first accounts. While I don't have any checkuser evidence beyond the one account, there were indications also through checkuser that also back that theory that this is not their first round of accounts. Either way, for now we can just let the original question play out. -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 20:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh. I see. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:19, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Answering your question, DoSazunielle, some users have access to a tool called CheckUser, which allows them to view IP addresses and such of users. Honestly... it is capable of making mistakes. I was once "confirmed" as a sockmaster I had never even heard of prior. Unfortunately, these things are expected to not be displayed publicly, so users are expected to simply trust those with the powers.


 * Regardless of whether these two users are the same or not, I find it difficult to see why DoSazunielle should be blocked? If we were almost completely certain that they are definitely part of a sockmaster, then I would understand, but CheckUser apparently just thinks they are alternative accounts of somebody? The whole CheckUser systems is weird if you ask me.


 * If we find out that DoSazunielle is a sock, but of a non-blocked user, can we unblock the user under the condition that he/she can only use one account? Foxnpichu (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * As I noted above, they are both editing End SARS, which is a violation of the sock policy. If they are going to edit the same page, the disclosure is required, as noted in the policy. -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 00:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , respectfully, I feel compelled to draw your attention to the optics of this block and its detrimental effects on the Wikipedia project as a whole. Sazunielle has, since asking an inappropriate question on an RfA, been blocked from Wikipedia following a "random spot-check" of his edits which yielded an unrelated and harmless instance of editing involving multiple accounts. (I call the edits harmless, because on the End SARS page, it made no difference whether those edits came from one account or two.) Remedying the harm takes little more than a stern warning on Sazunielle's talk page and a block of the other account, with a promise that if it happens again, that Sazunielle and any sockpuppets would be blocked permanently. A permanent block sends the message that:
 * Any new or junior editor who wants to voice an opinion or participate in decision-making must be prepared to be investigated and have the rule-book thrown at them.
 * Mistakes, even if both innocent and harmless, are impermissible.
 * I think that given the breadth and complexity of Wikipedia's rules and policies, this creates a punishingly high bar to editing. Sazunielle's confusion and bewilderment at the block only enhances this perception. I write this with the best of intentions and I hope you will not mistake my concern for disrespect. Considerations like this are frequently accounted for in courts of law, and I feel that they should figure in an administrator's decision-making as well. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 04:25, 22 October 2020 (UTC) CE'd comment at 04:31, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * We should use the term "indefinite", not "permanent". Foxnpichu (talk) 11:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , just curious, why did a check happen on this user? Was it due to the question they asked at RfA? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 16:41, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
 * (I apologize also, I did not recieve this specific ping) No. While the initial edits at RfA are what brought it to my attention, there are several other things I always check for. Please note that now in listing these, I show sockmasters how to continue socking without being caught. Since the whole reason why we are here is RfA, yes, editing an RfA within 2 weeks of your first edit seems improbable for a first time editor. Beyond that, RfAs are targeted by banned users from an offwiki site on a regular basis, and as I linked, you can see a direct threat to sock on a thread about this RfA. This is a regular occurrence. Beyond that, this user had several additional signs that this was not their first account. I'm also sure that I'll be mocked on their site at somepoint for bringing this up. We can start with their first edit which was to add a reference with full template knowledge and using a ref "name" which is advanced wikitext. I wouldn't have known how to do that when I started. Their third edit was to use a script to make an assisted edit. New editors never know how scripts work. They also were aware of other wikis (like French and Commons). In this edit, they show intricate knowledge of infoboxes. Then they began to engage in requested moves. They also knew how to add categories. In this edit, they mention naming conventions which is a category we have full of policies that newcomers don't regularly know about. From there, they began to use hotcat to add categories, something someone who is only familiar with the edit interface could do. This is all just 5 days after starting to edit. They do this continually up and to the RfA. For me, this is way beyond justification to run a check as it's a returning editor causing disruption at an RfA with a lot of already existing Wikipedia experience. I'm sure you could find many more by cirtically analyzing their edits via the advice at Signs of sockpuppetry. I would hope that you come to the same conclusion that this check is justified as it's a regularily ran check. If not, I always feel the need to mention that you can invoke the audit function of the Arbitration Committee or the Ombuds commission (I'm part of the 2nd group but I never participate or talk about issues against myself). -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 02:47, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Wait, there is an entire forum website dedicated to making fun of Wikipedia? Wow. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:21, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * : just a final, gentle ping, in case our messages got lost in the stack and you'd like to address our concerns. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 00:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I apologize for the delay in getting to your concerns. I haven't particularly had the energy to sit down and think about what to say and write in detail, and it was still on my list. I'll try to do so now. With absolute respect, the optics of any block are not my issue. I am following community established policies and procedures based on what is an is not allowed. I see you also quote the words random spot-check to talk about my reviewing of this users contributions and I don't see anywhere where I have mentioned that. When I consider matters of sockpuppetry and blocks, I take the time to go through contributions to ensure there are policy violations. Given my explanation above, I think it's clear to indicate that I didn't preform a random spot-check in this case. As directly noted at WP:ILLEGIT, is listed as an inappropriate use of an alternate account. The fact that there was no 'true' disruption outside of the fact that they didn't disclose accounts is like saying there is no victim to funds stolen from a community organization. In fact, I dispute that outright. If we allow that type of behavoir, people could sneakily edit for years providing false information on the same article and edit war without anyone knowing (See also WP:SCRUTINY). I understand that has yet to happen here, but it is what happens on a regular basis and I block on a regular basis for this. I also strongly dispute that my actions or investigations send a negative message to new contributors or say that mistakes are inpermissible. Mistakes can be explained and dealt with. The thing here is this, on weight, is not a mistake. It is someone who has edited beyond these two accounts and has violated the sockpuppetry policy, who should be seemingly aware of it given their extensive Wikipedia knowledge so far. So as I noted, I can understand it may not look like the best action at first glance, but this is not something I take lightly. I have also blocked people in the past for similiar behavoir (Examples ), though it is a rare action I take. If there is still a concern that my block is out of line, I feel obligated to point out that WP:AN is an option if you think that I have stepped outside of existing policies, the spirit of them, and discretion. --  Amanda  (aka DQ) 02:47, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the delay in replying. I had sent AmandaNP a Wiki email suggesting that the diff with her reply be hidden if she feels that it shows sockmasters how to sock without being caught. I haven't received a reply but I leave the decision to her better judgment and enough time has now passed that I think I should wrap up here. AmandaNP's explanation was helpful and I appreciate that she acknowledged our concerns. I understand now that her check on DoSazunielle was motivated by the RfA, but that there was good reason to investigate suspicious entries on the RfA. The check then revealed tell-tale signs of sockpuppetry that made it exceedingly unlikely that the question and multiple accounts were innocent or accidental.
 * A negative message to junior contributors can be conveyed with even the best of intentions and I think I should reiterate what prompted my message. At least three contributors on this page were disturbed by the optics of the block, which would (at least for me) have had a chilling effect. I'm the most junior editor in this discussion, and I vividly remember what it felt like to be a new editor, overwhelmed by the rules and policies of this page, many of which (including the ban on having multiple accounts) are not intuitive. This explanation was essential for me not to come away with the perception that it was an improperly targeted investigation. As I suggested in my email, if the risk of publicly explaining is that it would embolden sockmasters, then there should be an option for Wikipedia editors to request explanations privately (maybe on Wikimail) for administrative decisions. This is so that one isn't left needing to engage in the acrimonious process of complaining to an ombudsman, audit committee or administrator's noticeboard when it really isn't necessary. I thank AmandaNP for her time in replying to us. Kohlrabi Pickle (talk) 02:09, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * @ - Yeah, honestly, I would have probably never began contributing to Wikipedia in the first place had I known about all the policies from the get-go. When I first began, I started adding tons of original research into articles and being so confused why they were getting reverted. Foxnpichu (talk) 12:20, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Something I forgot to mention, for DoSazunielle, I am really sorry for all the needles flack and scrutiny you have had to go through. I genuinely trust you as an editor and I honestly admire you, as I feel you have handled this in a mature manner. Unfortunately, regardless of whether this is your only account or not, it is going to be very difficult to convince the admin that the former is the case. Your best bet is to go inline with the standard offer, which involves waiting six months, and then try to discuss things with the admin team. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:31, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The no connection argument doesn't hold any water with me. Yes, this connection is made via an IP address which is registered to a company that has extremely static single-user (or household) residential IP addresses. You are right that 623mutaNadu almost exclusively edits from mobile devices and ranges. In fact, it looks to be setup that way so that there is never a connection to a house on that account. The problem is, a mistake was made and an edit was made from the same internet connection you have. Your account seemed to be setup for completely home use. Had that mistake not been made, I wouldn't have drawn the connection. Throw on top that you decided to edit the same article, and that just about guarantees it is the same person. Beyond that, if you weren't the same person (which I can't believe right now), then ArbComs ruling on meatpuppetry applies. I'm going into WP:BEANS territory to explain this. So therefore, based on the evidence before me, can't go with your assumption that you aren't the same person. -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 00:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't know anything about this other person, so I don't know why they would or wouldn't use any specific kinds of internet access? If I understand what WP:MEAT is correctly, you're saying that if this isn't me, this is someone who I've…been bothering to take my side in things on Wikipedia? I reviewed WP:BEANS also but frankly the reference is lost on me. As mentioned in my unblock request, I don't know anything about this other user's life (I definitely haven't attempted to "recruit" anyone to win an argument for me on Wikipedia) or editing habits (other than what's been told to me in the course of my unblock request) & can't take responsibility for it, but you seem convinced I am responsible. It sounds like this would likely just become an eternal loop of "I'm telling you, I don't know who this is" & "You totally know who this is because it's you". Therefore, I think all I can do is ask again if you and any other administrators who review unblock requests have specific steps I can take to demonstrate that I have & have ever had one and only one account. I would be more than happy to engage in them, if anyone would just tell me what they are. DoSazunielle (talk) 01:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In all fairness, I can see why it appears to be the case that these accounts are related. I can also see why it may be possible a mistake has been made. “End SARS” is a highly trending topic right now on Twitter and other social media. Patient Zerotalk 10:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Omar Blondin Diop has been accepted
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Swedish slave traders


A tag has been placed on Category:Swedish slave traders requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

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Your submission at Articles for creation: The Swaziland News (December 19)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SL93 was:

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SL93 (talk) 01:22, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Unblock review: The reasons for the block are false or unexplained

 * I find it amusing how Do is going out of his/her way to try and demonstrate how he/she is not a sock, yet the offer just gets blatantly ignored. At the same time, when Do tries to question anything about the block, he/she gets a really vague answer, or no answer at all. Just because the user has been "confirmed" by somebody they might not be does not mean he/she deserves this lack of respect. Foxnpichu (talk) 22:39, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:The Swaziland News
Hello, DoSazunielle. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:The Swaziland News, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 02:02, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:The Swaziland News


Hello, DoSazunielle. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "The Swaziland News".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 05:12, 28 May 2022 (UTC)