User talk:DonCalo/Archive 2008

Giuseppe Falsone
Why do you keep reverting the introduction to the incorrect form? Please see Manual of Style (dates and numbers). MisfitToys (talk) 22:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Replying to your qestion on my talk page: see also Manual of Style (biographies). I've never seen the intro for an established article formatted the way the Falsone article is; when the place of birth is included, it's always noted as (born [date] in [place]), though I'll add that whenever articles are considered for FA status, there's seems to be an emphasis on removing the place of birth from the intro. MisfitToys (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Calliopejen1 stamp purge of 2008
i was considering whether i should respond to each image just as you did, but couldn't decide whether it would dilute the impact of my statement. now that you've done it, before i plow ahead and join you, i was wondering if you know of a way to combine all of the stamp image nominations into one group? that way one vote could speak for the entire lot. --emerson7 01:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Totò Riina
In the article of BBC website there is written that Marino del Tronto where Riina was held in small proson-islands in Italy that is falsi. Marino del Tronto is in italian mainland and not in the north but in the central section of Italy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucifero4 (talk • contribs) 12:54, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Image: 	'Ndrangheta Code
If you think it may be of benefit, here is a higher resolution image, from the same source [Family Crisis among the "Men of Honor"]:

Ndrangheta_code 1144x544 png image That location is simply the only way I can think of to make the image available. I will delete it from that location within 2 weeks. --RCopple (talk) 20:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Rollback
You have been granted with the rollback permission on the basis of your recent effort on dealing with vandalism. The rollback is a revert tool which can lessens the strains that normal javascripts such as twinkle put on the Wikipedia servers. You will find that you will revert faster through the rollback than through the normal reversion tools such as javascripts and the undo feature, which means that you could save time especially when reverting very large articles such as the George W. Bush page. To use it, simply click the [rollback] (which should appear unbloded if you have twinkle installed) link on the lastest diff page which should appear beside the link to the user's contributions. The rollback link will also appear on the history page beside the edit summary of the lastest edit. For more information, you may refer to this page. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 23:10, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Scampia feud copyright violations
Hi. Unfortunately I've had to revert a lot of well-referenced material in the Scampia feud article because some of it was copied directly from other sources. I was reluctant because you'd obviously put a lot of effort into finding the references, but you can't just copy stuff verbatim into Wikipedia like that. So feel free to rewrite the information in your own words - it's all there in the history still. However, I've proposed that the feud article be merged into the History section of the main Scampìa article, where it would benefit from the wider social and economic context of that article. Or at least the context that will come from that article when it's been expanded from its current fairly stubby state! Two other minor things - it's helpful if you can tag the Talk pages of articles you work on with relevant WikiProjects, as I've done on eg Talk:Scampia feud. That way you bring the article to the attention of relevant specialists, who can work on expanding it. And just as a style thing, WP:SEEALSO discourages filling "See also" sections with links to articles already mentioned in the text of the article, it's more for related topics that don't fit naturally into the main text. Cheers FlagSteward (talk) 21:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I answered here - Mafia Expert (talk) 23:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

RE your message about the redirect
You are slightly missing the point of a redirect - incorrect spelling in a redirect is absolutely permissable as it exists to pick up instances where a reader is trying to find an article but is spelling it incorrectly. e.g. Shakespear redirects to the correctly spelled Shakespeare and so on. This does not mean that Wikipedia is endorsing the incorrect spelling but is merely an acknowledgment that people mistype and make mistakes. Kind regards, nancy  (talk) 10:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

'ndrinas
That page is a redirect. It's very common to have redirects from alternate or even wrong spellings, to make navigation easier. It seems like a likely mistake for someone to make when looking for the subject, which is why multiple people have turned down your request to delete a redirect. Redirects are very cheap. Grand master  ka  17:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: 'ndrine
A person not familiar with pluralisation of Italian words might naturally search for "'ndrinas". It is a convenience to them to have an entry for that word that redirects to "'ndrine". Like I said in the edit summary, it might be *wrong* but it's not *unlikely*. ... disco spinster   talk  19:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Mafia-SPECTRE alliance
What do you think? We'd kick ass together and the world would be shivering its its boots  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 20:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Your rollback use
Regarding this edit, you are not supposed to use rollback when reverting a legitimate edit. Use "undo" instead. And the user is doing a good work since the article shouldn't have a parent category and its subcategory together, unless there is a specific reason. Please see WP:CAT. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

The Mafia Artcile
Your truly a genius! Have you ever thought that a small bio with only a few facts will encourage the reader to go the larger article or maybe he might get the information what he needs just from the smaller bio. The amount of pathetic actions and bullshit that occur on this site by some of the administrators is exactly one reason why the organized crime/mafia section of the site has so many errors, false information and in some cases lack of important information regarding the article subject.

After you decidd that all the accurate information I added to the page was of no value and with that I point to my statement above which proves you wrong, I thought I might fix the other mistakes that you or some other Mafia Expert created in the ''Mafia Terminology" section, but I was blocked. What ever genius created that mixed up the terms relating to the hierarchies of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra (capo di tutti capi, consigliere), Calabrian Ndrnageta (capo-crimine, capo-bastone) and Sacra Corona Unita (sgarrista, picciotto and giovane d'onore), they even threw in a North American mafia term (caporegime).

For your information Italian mafia terms like capo-crimine are not traditional terms. That term or title is only used by the Calabrese mafia (the Ndrnagheta) and does not mean crime boss and capo-bastone does not mean club head and is not the underboss or seomnd in comand to the capo-crimine, he's the boss of the locale or crime family within the Ndrangheta. The crimine is the Ndrangheta council that is chosen every year to run various regions such as Reggio Calabria, Catanzaro, Cosenza, Crotone and Vibo Valentia.

Under ''American Cosa Nostra"' the same genius wrote that the American mafia known as La Cosa Nostra is an offshoot of the Sicilian mafia that emerged on the East Coast of the United States during the late 19th century. Are you kidding me or what? First of all the first Italian mafia groups were formed in the South, New Orleans to be exact and in the mid 1900s, around the mid 1860s. The Neapolitans were set up and organized around the same time as the Sicilians and there were also Calabrian mafia groups that emerged within the United States by the late 1800s. After the Cosa Nostra-Camora War that ended around 1919 (not Mafia-Camorra War, they were both mafia groups for the genius who coined that title) all the Italian mafia groups began to align themselves, but because the majority of American mafiosi and groups were Sicilian they went with the Sicilian structure, not because only the Sicilian mafia groups survived. In fact, the Genovese crime family was led by a majority of Calabrian and Neapolitan bosses and capos from 1932 up until the time Frank Costello and his regime were removed by Vito Genovese in 1957 and the Genovese himself was Neapolitan, not Sicilian.


 * That is why the organization was called La Cosa Nostra, "This Thing of Ours", because of the mix of Italian crime groups as a whole, but dominated by a majarity of Sicilian bosses and Sicilian mafiosi. But even with that there is no proof that the Sicilian mafia in Sicily was called Cosa Nostra before the 1930s. In fact here is more proof to reinforce the notion that they took the name from the American mafia after WWII and the end of the fascist regime, before that the organization was called "The Honored Society'' like in Calabria. The Neapolitan Camorra is the oldest Italian mafia group and then the Calabrian Ndrangheta, only those two organization in Italy had their names for centuries, not the Sicilian mafia as I stated.

You guys do't know your as from a whole in the ground. You guys just spew the same regurgitated shit from books and articles that has been re-written over and over again for decades, do some real research and you'll see that basically 3/4 of the earliest American mafia history can be re-written and added to, while the rest of the information from the 1930s-60s is questionable at best, other than the basic stuff such as the names of the main players and what crime families and factions they belonged to and were affiliated with.

BTW, Mr. "Mafia Expert", once again Luciano Leggio is the former boss of the Corlonesi cla, not Luciano Liggio, that was an alias he used while he was on the run and a mistake made by an Italian newspaper. I see yopu allowed the correction I made to Michele Navarra, he was boss of the Corleonesi from around 1943, not the 1930s like the article stated earlier, Calogero Lo Blue was the boss before him. The Lo Blue clan is still prominent in Corleone, members of the family were the ones arrested for hiding Bernardo Provenzano and helping him. Michele "The Pope" Greco, cousin to Salvatore "Little Bird" Greco was the boss of the mafia clan of Croceverde, but he was the boss of the Ciaculli cosca, you people still don't understand the difference between clans and cosche do you? Benedetto "Nitto" Santapaola is no longer the most important boss in Catania, he and his clan started losing power by the late 1990s and within a few years of the new millennium the Ercolano-Mangion clan starting usuroping the power of the Santapola-Ferrera-Rome clan, the core clan of the Catania cosca tyhat once ruled undisputed. In fact it use to be the Santapaola-Ercolnao-Ferrera-Romeo clan, all of them are related, but Nitto Santapaola pout a hit out on Pippo Ercolano around 2004. Pippo is the father of Aldo Ercolano, Nitto's cousin and former right-hand-man who went to prison with him, but now they do not get along and hate each other because the new alliance the Ercolano clan has created with the Mangion clan through marriage has shifted power and influence in catania to them as they receive more support from other Catania clans not aligned with the Santapaolas. That is why Nitto wanted to hit his own cousin, because the Ercolano clan is continuously gaining power and influence, they have been since the early millennium, where have you been? In fact, the Ercolano-Mangion clan may have been the ones supporting the La Rocca clan when in 2004 they wanted to hit Umberto Di Fazio the "reggente" (acting boss) of the Canatia cosca for Nitto Santapaola since 1995. Di Fazio became a pentito immediately after being captured near the province of Enna because he new the majority support within the Catania mafia for Nitto and his clan was coming to an end and he was finished himself.

Go back to sleep gentlemen or do the Wikipedia readers a favor and do some research and maybe then you guys can fix all your mistakes because I'm done trying to fix all the mistakes I find. I have already gotten rid of my Buffalo crime family userpage. The organized crime/mafia section is a joke, but keep up the good work, Mr. Mafia Expert. If you ever become a college professor and start teach a course on the mafia let me know, I would love to check out the class!

Did I say keep up the good work, I meant keep up the bad work. When it Homes to the mafia I have forgotten the amount that you know. You better start doing some real research, that includes doesn't include just reading books, it includes early and current newspaper articles or archives, birth, immigration and death records and law enforcement records.

Maybe you should get a hold of author Phil Carlo (The Iceman) and ask him to assist you on correcting and adding information to the organized crime/mafia section of Wikipedia. His credibility is about the same as most of the organized crime/mafia section mediators on Wikipedia.

Little Joe Shots


 * I don't know exactly what you’re trying to say here or who you are addressing. Your mind is as distorted as your spelling. - Mafia Expert (talk) 15:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

hey man
Pasquale Condello has relatives in Australia my grandmother was his sister when she herd the news of the arrest she broke down so i think you need to get you facts right —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.91.91 (talk) 03:26, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Birthplace
Ciao! A little not of style... according to WP:Manual of Style (don't know where exactly in that huge page), the birthplace can be put in-line iwtihn the article, while the birtdate should have frst "born June 5 1930" etc. I w rote you this as I was you reverted my edit in this type at Corrado Carnevale. For the rest, compliment for your wonderful job here! Miezzega!! --Attilios (talk) 10:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ciao again! I must not agree with you. I've checked the MOS, and found the page where it's precisely stated that places of birth must be in the following text, not along dates of b/d: see Manual of Style. Ciao and good work! --Attilios (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, I reverted your de-edits at Giovanni Falcone. Be sure: far from me to start an edit war with such a good editor like you. If I did, it's for I'm sure of the style asked at that page which you maybe visited. Ciao and keep good working as usual. --Attilios (talk) 13:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for niceness
If you didn't notice it, I'm not English mothertongue, and I'm just here trying to do my best (in fact I usually ask help to friends after creating a new article to check my language). Also, recently I've just time to sneak some minor corrections as I'm working. If you've more time than me, you can help my "embarassing" article at your wish. You can also write it from scratch, since you're so better than me in English and in finding references. Thanks and good work. --Attilios (talk) 14:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Gigante lived in two homes, with two families
Gigante lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and with his mistress and their three children in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/mar/27/ukcrime.health?commentpage=1 Gigante, 74, has been boss of the Genovese organised crime family of New York since the mid-1980s. It was an extraordinary reign, characterised by duplicity: he lived in two homes, with two families - with his wife and their five children in New Jersey, and with his mistress and their three children in a town house on the exclusive Upper East Side.

PS I Used to live on the upper east side and pass by his townhouse all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mynameisstanley (talk • contribs) 17:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Apparently you did not pay attention to his other whereabouts: Gigante lived at home with his mother Yolanda Gigante on La Guardia Place in Greenwich Village. See:Strolls in Robe Notwithstanding, Mob Figure Must Stand Trial, The New York Times, August 29, 1996 - Mafia Expert (talk) 18:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Captions
Ciao! Just again a (I know I'm boring, pardon me) style note... captions in picturs must not be in boldface. Keep good work and thanks. --Attilios (talk) 08:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Greenwich Village
Please continue the discussion here and not in the article until it is resolved. Thank you....Modernist (talk) 02:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop vandalising all my posts
Please stop undoing all my contributions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mynameisstanley (talk • contribs) 17:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I answered here and on the ANI page here. - Mafia Expert (talk) 18:04, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Apologies!
I tried to notify you about that ANI thread but accidentally posted on the other user's talk page! Sorry! Exxolon (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Next? Admins (and any other users who happen to wander by) will look at the report, evaluate it's merit and post opinions and suggestions accordingly. If an admin or admins feels that any admin action is needed on either you or the reporter then they'll do that - but they won't act without checking all the facts first. Dispute resolution may be suggested. Exxolon (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Compare d'anello
Hi, I am Italian but I didn't know the exact meaning of this expression (used locally in Southern Italy, rather than nationally), besides the fact that it is related to the wedding ceremony. Anyway, this is what I found on demauroparavia.it, the online version of an authoritative Italian dictionary at http://www.demauroparavia.it/24883 (my translation): "the best man charged with handing the wedding rings to the bride and groom". If your source uses "compare d'anello" in this generic sense, then I think that it could be translated just as "best man", maybe between brackets besides the Italian expression to allow for particular features of the Italian tradition (the Oxford Italian-English dictionary translates "compare d'anello" just as "best man" too); by the way, if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_man#Best_Man is right, dealing with wedding rings is part of the best man's task in British and American weddings too.

However, your source might refer to some local tradition in particular: I found these two apparently reliable texts, about some Calabrian traditions (from Bovalino and Sambiase in particular) http://www.bibliotelematica.org/Leone%20-RitoTradizioneMemoria.pdf and  http://www.sambiase.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=133 according to which the "compare d'anello" has a role different from that of the best man: according to the former site, he is a trusted friend of the groom's who buys a ring for the bride (a ring distinct from the wedding rings, which are bought by the husband); this tradition had allegedly spread from Naples and Eastern Sicily to Bovalino and nearby towns.

The following forum thread might also be of interest to you: http://dasposeperspose.forumup.it/about7406-0-asc-0-dasposeperspose.html : it seems to confirm the difference between "compare d'anello" and "testimone" (best man) and that the "compare d'anello" is a Calabrian tradition in particular. Besides, there is a text quoted by the user maryv9 about this tradition, but the source isn't given, and I don't know how much it is reliable.

I hope that my little searches have been of use to you; however, if something isn't clear in the Italian texts I have referred to don't hesitate to contact me again. Good bye, --Analytikone (talk) 10:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You are very welcome, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn something new. I think that your translation is very good, since in some way it allows for both the narrow and broad meaning of "compare d'anello".
 * By the way, I spent one hour for my searches at most: google and ctrl+f work wonders! --Analytikone (talk) 14:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

August 2008
You have been blocked from editing for in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below.

Comment from blocking admin
I actually started to unblock you but in doing so, I decided not to based on your "I don't agree" comment above. Toddst1 (talk) 15:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Note to other admins: please review Ani. Toddst1 (talk) 16:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Since this is to only place I can go right now:

Hi, Todd. I don´t think I got a fair treatment when you blocked me. Apparently, you thought so yourself, because you were willing to unblock, but declined to do so after my comments to the block reviewer. I did not behave uncivil, did not use offensive language – I just defended myself. Apparently that is not allowed. That was the second unfair treatment – and, excuse me for saying so – bordered on abuse of power. I admitted my mistake and – in so many words – promised not to do it again. What else did I have to do? Go on my knees and beg for mercy?

Fair enough, I violated 3RR in my growing irritation over the disruptive editing by User talk:Mynameisstanley, and his double User talk:Sdhilio‎ (see: here). This has been going on for some time now. No appropriate action has been taken, while several admins have been alerted. I am not the only one with serious problems about the editing of Mynameisstanley, just check here, and User talk:Mynameisstanley. To hide the comments on his disruptive editing he deleted some of the comments he received, see. It is impossible to reason with this guy – I got irritated and made a mistake, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

In my opinion, the appropriate action would have been to (a) protect the John Gotti article and revert it to its pre-vandalized state, (b) warn the violaters (and that includes me), and (c) wait for the issue to get resolved on the talk page. That is how it was done in Talk:Greenwich Village and worked well. I appreciate that on first sight anyone would think it was a silly edit war – it was –, but I provided all the evidence on previous incidents and would have expected a somewhat better researched handling of the case, which would have led to a different outcome, I think. Don’t bother to explain 3RR to me again, I perfectly understand the policy and that I did violate it – I just think it should have been handled differently.

I could take this case to all kinds of dispute resolutions and commissions, but I will not. I came to Wikipedia to positively contribute and write and edit articles, not to get mixed up in this kind of s—. I am not going to waste my time on this anymore, and like I said before, Mynameisstanley or Sdhilio or whatever else identities he has, is your problem now – I did my part. The only thing I would appreciate is a thorough investigations into this guy and appropriate action on his misbehaviour. As far as I am concerned the incident is over, but I must admit it was an unpleasant experience and my trust in the capacity of admins to fairly judge and handle an issue has been diminished considerably. Sorry for the long rant and thank you for your attention. - Mafia Expert (talk) 18:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I just have to pull you up on one thing. Swapping two images about in an article isn't vandalism, and protecting the page means that no one is able to edit it which is hardly fair. Generally speaking, when two people are edit warring the best way to handle it is to block the two who are causing the disruption. This is how revert wars are usually handled with protection saved only for articles where the disruption cannot be dealt with by blocking. I realise that you didn't know this when you made the complaint and it's a tough way to learn it now. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 21:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The situation has changed slightly - your block is still 12 hours, however the other editor has been blocked for a week. For what's it worth, I think this revised outcome is reasonably fair. PhilKnight (talk) 21:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Theresa, if you refuse to see the incident in a broader context, you are probably right. However, my point is that the decision was too rash given the pattern of misbehaving of the other user. For what it is worth, another editor reverted the edits of Mynameisstanley again - and rightly so. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe it was better not to protect John Gotti. Fortunately, the other editor did not get blocked as well for edit warring. And yes, I noticed action has been undertaken against Mynameisstanley after all. Maybe it all did serve a purpose somehow. - Mafia Expert (talk) 21:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It has been pointed out to me that my comment above may have come across rather harshly. That wasn't the intent.  My apologies for any offence. You are clearly a positive contributor to Wikipedia and that's why I had intended to unblock you.  Heck, 3RR is relatively easy to violate.
 * However the other editor wasn't vandalising and it was an edit war. To be fair to the other party, I had to block you.  You both got light blocks, and quite frankly, I'm not known for giving light blocks.  Appropriately, as Phil pointed out, the other user's block has been extended.  If you had said "Shucks, I got carried away. Sorry." you would have been unblocked.
 * I look forward to working constructively with you in the future. Best regards.   Toddst1 (talk) 21:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, so I did have to go on my knees and beg for mercy. I hope you realise your message did not really help. I did admit my error, I said I would not do it again, but not humbly enough to satisfy your ego. Pffff. Well, let's just consider it a chain of errors and hope everybody has learned his lesson and will behave in the future. Kind regards. - Mafia Expert (talk) 22:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

how do i create a new page? i went to the create new page site and was sent to another couple sites. I would like to create one for Loudonville, New York. THANKS! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scooberwiz (talk • contribs) 18:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! Sorry, I could only find the Loudonville, Ohio article. I will be sure to practice first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scooberwiz (talk • contribs) 12:22, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Carmine Alfieri
Hi and thanks a lot for the compliments. I have added some more information regarding the subject backed by a secondary reliable source.

However, i differ from your opinion that AmericanMafia.com is not a reliable source. This is because the host of the website, Rick Porrello, is himself a reputed researcher and authority on the Mafia in the United States. He has authored a couple of books on the Cleveland Mafia and one of them (To kill the Irishman) is even being optioned for a movie. The same goes for Mike La Sorte, Allan May, John Tuohy and the other contributors to the website.

Also, according to WP:SPS, Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. Regards. Joyson Noel (talk) 14:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Allright. I agree with you about La Sorte. Joyson Noel (talk) 16:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Vincenzo Casillo
Thanks a lot, dude. I have not yet finished with the article and i am planning to work on more Camorra articles as well. Joyson Noel (talk) 13:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Hey dude, i am currently working on the Nuova Camorra Organizzata article. Please dont make any edits to the article, until i am done with it. You will know when i have finished, when i replace the "inuse" template with the "underconstruction" template. Thanks. Joyson Noel (talk) 08:07, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Antonino Rizutto
Hi Mafia Expert,

re. Antonino Rizzuto, I missed this deletion discussion completely. I have asked User:Shereth (talk) to review the deletion, and have provided more information on this person which makes him notable and newsworth.

As the initial flagger, I would appreciate it if you could review this evidence on talk, and leave your own opinion, negative or otherwise, on this matter.

I will accept the decision of Shereth either way.

Also you extensively edited my contribution on Gaspare Pulizzi, can you please leave your reasons for doing so on the discussion page, as I'm confused as to why you deleted a lot of content and references, particularly the "S" magazine, which reprints first-person testimony given to magistrates. thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seaneendubh (talk • contribs) 09:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi
Welcome back, Mafia Expert! What prevented you from editing articles for so long? Joyson Noel (talk) 16:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: Sources
Hi, Thanks for notifying me about the problem with the sources in the Edoardo Contini article. The statement about them being bonded by strong family relationships was actually not mentioned in the source, but instead taken from the Secondigliano Alliance article which i translated from the Italian wikipedia. I have now removed this statement from the article and have added a new reference to back up this statement: "The Secondigliano Alliance was created with the sole purpose to control the drug trade and the extortion rackets in many suburbs of Naples." As for the last issue about me not mentioning the source in the references, dont worry about it. I promise to do so from now onwards. As a matter of fact, i mentioned the names of the newspaper and date in nearly all references of the article, with the exception of sources which were neither newspapers or magazines. Please feel free to inform me in the event of any future problems regarding sources or anything else from my part. I would greatly appreciate it. Regards, Joyson Noel (talk) 15:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Translation again
Hi, you are welcome. A very good translation on the whole, I would say. Just some observations: I would translate "'aggiustare' le cose" as "to sort things out", but I suppose that "accommodate matters" has the same (or a very similar) meaning. "Ma chi glielo ha fatto fare?" is an Italian idiom (literally "Who made him do it?" in this case) which means "Why did he do it? I wouldn't have done it (seeing the consequences)", and isn't usually meant in its literal sense as a question about who persuaded or compelled someone to do something. I don't know if "Who made him do it?" in English can have this idiomatic sense. "Chissà quale fine farà" refers to a person, and literally means "who knows how he will end up", the implication being that he will come to a bad end or at least to no good. --Analytikone (talk) 00:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:History of the Camorra in Italy
Hi, i propose that the category's name be changed to "History of the Camorra" as that would also include any notable Camorra related event such as the Mafia-Camorra War that occured outside of Italy. Joyson Noel (talk) 12:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

All right then, in that case i'll try my best in improving those articles and referencing them, if possible. However, the historical Brooklyn Camorra organization and its close allies, the Navy st. gang and Coney Island gang were considered to be Camorristi. So, can i re-instate the "Camorristi" category to those articles that you removed. Joyson Noel (talk) 04:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, i still feel that the category "History of the Camorra in Italy" should be changed to "History of the Camorra" as that also would include any past or present Camorra related event that could occur outside of Italy. I dont think that the two extra categories would be necessary, especially since as you have mentioned, the Camorra does not exist in the United States anymore, and doing so would give readers the wrong impression.

Also, while Al Capone, Vito Genovese, Joey Gallo, Frank Tieri, to name a few, were of Neapolitan descent, they were never considered to be Camorristi. On the other hand, pre-Luciano era mobsters such as Pellegrino Morano, Ralph Daniello, Alphonso Sgroia were members of the Brooklyn Camorra organization and their allies, Navy st. gang and Coney Island gang, and were considered to be Camorristi. Pellegrino Morano himself was reputed to be a Camorra godfather. Perhaps, this problem could be solved if we just change the description on the category to "members of the Neapolitan Camorra and its associates". Joyson Noel (talk) 08:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Since the American Mafia and the Sicilian Mafia are two separate entities, their having separate categories are justified. The American Mafia is an offshoot of the Sicilian Mafia, inducting anyone of Italian heritage, whereas the same was not the case for the historical American Camorra. It did not evolve into a separate organization. Moreover, the American Camorra disappeared in the early twenties. As such, it is better to change the name of the category as well as the description in the "Camorristi" category to include members and their associates, both within and outside Italy. Also, while there has not been any significant Camorra related event outside Italy, the possibility of it happening in the future cannot be ruled out. Especially since many Camorristi have been known to operate outside of Italy, for example, Raffaele Amato in Spain and Antonio La Torre in Aberdeen, Scotland. Joyson Noel (talk) 18:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Again, i disagree. The La Torre clan was also based in Aberdeen, Scotland, and the head of its UK section, Antonio La Torre was also referred to as "local don of the Camorra". In fact, they spent most of their illegal proceeds from narcotics trafficking and extortion in the real estate, tourism and restaurant sectors in the city. Due to their substantial enterprises in Scotland, both legitimate and illegitimate, they even went as far as to induct a Scottish person into their clan. Joyson Noel (talk) 07:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Re:Calogero Bagarella
Thanks for adding some references to the article. However, the article was translated by me from the Italian wikipedia, which explains why there are no references. Sure, i will work on providing reliable references for the article as well. Joyson Noel (talk) 00:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Mafia in popular culture
Hmmm while it is true I hadn't referenced this section, I'm not sure exactly why it ought to have been deleted and what part of it was 'untrue'. Mafioso and Il Boss are two notable-ish Italian films about the Sicilian mafia, and the Godfather Part II, a very well regarded and notable film no matter who you ask, explicitly deals with the issue. Perhaps if I reinstated the section but added references (although I'm not sure what needed referencing, the articles pretty much reference themselves, but if this is not good enough I could put up any "100 greatest films" list as a reference and the Godfather will be somewhere near the top)?

On another note, I think you've made some fantastic contributions to Italian organized crime related articles. Keep up the good work! Nicknackrussian (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I see what you mean, and I'm not really in a position to talk about Italian film/television since my knowledge doesn't really go beyond 5 or 6 films. But the second Godfather is a film pretty much anyone can recognise and does deal with the actual Sicilian side of things (the murder of Vito's original family and his return to Sicily to kill the boss responsible). I feel that it should warrant a mention somewhere in the article since when many Westerners think of the Sicilian mafia they think Godfather, and definetely should be mentioned should a popular culture section prop up. Nicknackrussian (talk) 19:03, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm Russian, live in Britain and can safely say more Brits and Russkies would know about a major Hollywood film than they would about an Italian film about the same topics. Unfortunate perhaps, but true (yes I know Russia wouldn't count as Western, but that would be in favor of my argument, demonstrating how widely-know these films are). Besides what they would have seen on the news about the capture of Provenzano, most people would fill in the blanks with what they "know", rightly or wrongly, from popular culture, which is where the Godfather comes in. Nicknackrussian (talk) 19:26, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth of Nicola Gentile
You reverted my correction of the date of birth to the article, and further claimed that the date of birth in the FBI file is wrong. Could you please back up your claim with a reply, or i will revert the edit later on myself. Regards, Joyson Noel (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that out. I honestly missed the reference provided for the date of birth. Joyson Noel (talk) 22:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment on my talk page
I think this edit was meant for Damiens.rf, not me; is that right? I'm fed up with him; are you? INTGAFW (talk) 09:06, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Please don not remove information
Hello, you removed information from 'Ndrangheta because of a dead link. However, a dead link is no valid reason to do so. The world is bigger than internet and people might want to check the hard copy. Read the policy at WP:DEADLINK. Kind regards. - Mafia Expert (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wilco. I was just getting tired of vandalism/new page patrol and was trying something different.  I'll be more cautious in the future and follow deadlink guidelines.  They should really post a link to that policy on the deadlink list page.  I did read the boxed text there before beginning my editing on dead links, and as there was no "be sure and read this first" message I was assuming we edited under our own recognizance.  Thanks for the heads up. LeilaniLad (talk) 15:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Borghese
Can you please add in article information about 4th trial. I have writen everything on article talk page and source is storia siamo noi (not for conspiracy theory) ?--Rečanin (talk) 19:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Can we talk about this ?
 * Last trial has been because military secret service which has discovered coup has destroyed part of evidence (deleted many names) before it is given to court because of minister of defence order !--Rečanin (talk) 00:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)