User talk:Doncram/Archive 5

NHL stuff
Hi Doncram, did you ever get a copyeditor for the New York NHL list? I can take a look at it if you want (and have not found anyone else). I also wanted to say that the Philadelphia NHL list has zero red links and the Pennsylvania list has one. I will check the links in each and make a start (or stub) for the last PA NHL (a church in Jim Thorpe, PA). Thanks, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I started a copyedit and made it through the lead and the first paragraph and a half of the Overview section. I stopped to make sure what I was doing was OK and also because ref 12 still has question marks in it. I also changed eleven in ref 11 to ten ships as the body of the article said ten and I counted ten (left a comment on this). I would also link the NHLs in the photo captions. So let me know if my copyedits are OK, resolve the question marks, and I will keep at it. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your helpful edits. I think I am done with the first pass, mostly making things consistent like commas before and in a series of three or more members. I do have some questions / concerns for FLC.
 * Direct quotes should have a reference - you might be able to get away with "forever wild" as it is only two words and attributed to the state constitution, but "Cradle of the American circus" needs a ref, and First hospital for the "insane poor"; probably does too.
 * As long as the extraordinary claims (oldest, first, longest, tallest, only, etc.) are referenced in the articles, I think they are OK. Someone might want refs for some of them in FLC though.
 * The Current NHLs in NYC section probably needs a ref for the stats (number of NHLs, dates, etc.).
 * The Historic areas in the United States National Park System section reads a bit like speculation / original research as currently written, especially Seven of the 20 were declared National Historic Landmarks, perhaps before receiving the higher protection designation, and retain their NHL standing, and are listed above. Perhaps this could just be Seven of the 20 have been declared National Historic Landmarks, and are listed above.


 * Otherwise it looks very good and represents an impressive amount of work for the list itself and for all the articles listed. Hope this helps, and feel free to revert my cpyedits if I have made things worse in any way, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought the descriptions were good and did not change any of them except for fixing some wikilinks. When everything else is ready, let me know and I will ask someone very good at finding typos to look at it. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Template
I know you have done LA and Chicago. I don't know what other cities you have done, but you may want to make a template like US tallest buildings lists so others can figure out what is out there. You also may want to make a category for lists of Registered Historic Places.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

4th of July Drive
Before I start doing a quick review of states with lots of NHLs, I'd like to check with you about what sort of probs you think should be noted. I'm sure redlinks should be noted.


 * Articles that need to be split out of other articles?
 * Articles without NRHP infoboxes?
 * Articles tagged for needing citations?
 * Articles tagged for multiple issues?
 * Articles that still say "is significasnt for....." (still end with ellipses)?
 * IUCN bar in infobox, but no NHL bar?

Also, anything I should be looking for that I haven't mentioned? Lvklock (talk) 03:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Good questions. I responded in wp:Talk page, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. doncram (talk) 19:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. So, now I have my checklist of things to look for. I noticed an article with no NRHP inventory-nomination ref (Amalik Bay Archeological District), so I thought I'd try to add it. I went to an article that had this type of reference (Alaska Native Brotherhood Hall), but when I try to access it it says "the page cannot be found". It recommends going to pdfhost.focus.nps.gov and trying from there. When I do that it says "you are not authorized to view this page". Any idea what I can do differently? I'm sure I did this okay yesterday, or at least recently. Lvklock (talk) 20:34, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Please look at Fox Theatre(Atlanta) for me. I've done something wrong to the infobox, and I cannot keep my eyes open to figure it out. Lvklock (talk) 04:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * THANK YOU!!

Hey, you should have had me do Louisiana when I was discouraged. What a breeze! Nice work there. Lvklock (talk) 01:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Slave driver! No congrats on 4 reviews done in a day...just a list of more to tackle....;)Lvklock (talk) 08:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I finished reviewing PA. You're working on Phila. That's it. Reviews are done! Anything else you'd still like to accomplish before tomorrow? Lvklock (talk) 17:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK
Thanks! The hook was: Did you know
 * ... that there are at least 296 historic places listed on the U.S. National Register in Chicago, including a German U-boat (pictured)?

Looks like you got this one. Daniel Case (talk) 15:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Huffman Prairie
I agree that Huffman Prairie and Huffman Prairie Flying Field should be merged. Huffman Prairie is more concise, I think, and a redirect from HPFF would be fine.  Acroterion  (talk)  13:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

LA RHP
I got El Greco today and a bunch in West Hollywood. Will upload shortly.Cbl62 (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I look forward to seeing the pics you have of Benedict Canyon and San Pedro. The LA RHP list is really taking shape.  Since you created it about a month ago, it's had around 6,000 page views ... pretty good for a new article!  I have also started articles for Hollywood Tower, formerly the Belle Tour, Ebell of Los Angeles, Alvarado Terrace Historic District (former home of Jim Jones Peoples Temple) -- all cued up for DYK.  Not surprisingly, the three branch libraries drew only about 200 views each despite DYK listing.  I guess libraries just don't have the sex appeal of building associated with celebrities, etc.  If you're still up for it, a pic trip to Pasadena (or other locale) would be fun.  I'm traveling to the Midwest next week, but maybe some Saturday in July?  Cbl62 (talk) 17:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Reply
§hep  •   ¡Talk to me!  16:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Ohio
List of National Historic Landmarks in Ohio is all blue links now, although some are the most minimal of stubs.  Acroterion  (talk)  22:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I was looking over the list and Mount Pleasant Historic District is in Massschusetts (sp?). What's the correct naiming convention to add the article for the one in Ohio?  §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  22:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Argh. So much for blue.  I'd suggest they become Mount Pleasant Historic District (Massachusetts) and Mount Pleasant Historic District (Ohio) with a disambig page for Mount Pleasant Historic District.    Acroterion  (talk)  22:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Got ya. Doin it right now. §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  22:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅. Mount Pleasant Historic District (Mt. Pleasant, Ohio). Glad to see the redlinks gone. Now I just need to create three articles on places.  §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of The Cedars
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article The Cedars, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Mizu onna sango15 / 水 女  珊瑚15  02:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The places listed on the page are all notable places listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places. I deleted the prod notice after creating one of the articles. doncram (talk) 02:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Octagonal DYK
Sounds good. clariosophic (talk) 11:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, I took some new pics of one of your octagons, the Wilcox Octagon House, on the way to work this am. I can't upload them all right now, but sent an e-mail with the best of them.  If you need me to upload a couple I can manage it. Lvklock (talk) 18:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Just want to make sure you notice, Daniel Case made a comment about this DYK you probably want to address. Lvklock (talk) 17:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Yay! the DYK finally went through, and the DYK hook, with no picture though, is on the Wikipedia main page right now. The DYK administrator saw fit to directly award the DYK plaque to Lvklock, not Clariosophic or me, oh well. But, indirectly then, passing the award on to moi-self...

The hook that appears now is, Did You Know: *... that zooming in from satellite view, one can see the outlines of Wilcox Octagon House and most of the 82 octagon houses listed on the U.S. National Register?


 * Thanks everyone else for all you did! It was fun getting the list out. doncram (talk) 07:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * OMG, you guys were robbed!!! All I did was take a pic and make some very minor tweaks to the DYK.  I'm sorry.  Lvklock (talk) 08:55, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I seem to be missing something. I don't see it on the main page or in the archives either. clariosophic (talk) 13:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's there now in the [recent additions archive], just search on "octagon" to find it. It did not include any picture. doncram (talk) 23:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I added coordinates for Thomas Jefferson's Poplar House (from PoplarHouse.Org) LeheckaG (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! And i see you left a helpful footnote.  I may move that to the separate Poplar Forest article.  But, hmm, we need to footnote that there is now a mixture of coordinate sources, in the main list-article.  Thanks again. doncram (talk) 23:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

re Image:JohnBrownHouse
The site  gives only information/pictures from the National Register Nomination forms (accepted in PA). As I understand it these are Federal government property.

Their description of the data (with my bolding): "ARCH provides public access to Pennsylvania's inventory of National Historic Landmarks and National Register of Historic Places. At this site, you will find the original, complete nomination forms for over 3000 National Register nominations and almost 200 National Historic Landmark properties. Each nomination includes the name and location of the property, a physical description, a statement of the property's significance, geographical data, biblographic references, and, at least one representative photograph for each property or district. Forms can be retrieved through a searchable database.

The original nomination forms and selected photographs were digitized for presentation on the Web."

There's no mention of anything else being included.

Sorry that the exact pages are difficult to link to (go to search, Franklin County, Chambersburg Borough)

The site says in its FAQs

"12) Q. Can I save the National Register nomination form and photographs?

A. Yes, click on the square computer disk icon on the upper left corner of the Adobe Reader toolbar. From there, you can save the file to any directory on your computer.

13) Q. Can I print the National Register nomination form and photographs?

A. Yes, either pull down the file menu on the upper left corner of your toolbar and select "Print" or click on the printer icon on the upper left of the Adobe reader toolbar and a print menu will appear."

This seems pretty clear (from the State of Pennsylvania) that it's not under copyright.

Please let me know if you think this interpretation is wrong (after all, nobody came out explicitly and said "This photo is property of the US gov. and therfore in the public domain."

Thanks for any help.

Smallbones (talk) 12:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately their giving permission to users of their site to download and print pictures isn't as comprehensive as releasing pictures to the public domain, IMO. Although perhaps they would refute that perception if asked.--Appraiser (talk) 13:16, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

From the University of California (my bolding)


 * What types of works make up the public domain?
 * Categories of material that are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection include:


 * Ideas and facts
 * Works with expired copyrights

....
 * Laws, regulations, judicial opinions, government documents and legislative reports
 * Words, names, numbers, symbols, signs, rules of grammar and diction, and punctuation

This is a government document, from a nomination form to the National Registry (intended for distribution to the public, now via going to the state or federal archive - but soon to be put fully on-line). The form (document) is needed to get, e.g. tax benefits. I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a government document, intended for distribution to the public (and indeed distributed by the web in this case) can be copyrighted.

Smallbones (talk) 15:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Pics of 4 NHLs in ME
I have some pics from a friend of 4 NHL ships in ME. I'm not sure how to deal with the permission thing. Have you ever done it? Here's a copy of the questions I asked at Wikimedia the other day, and the only answer I got (to No. 1):


 * I have four pictures of National Historic Landmark ships that were taken by a friend. She gave them to me to use in Wikipedia. I have scanned and cropped them appropriately. I know I have to have her send a permission, but I'm not sure of some deatils.


 * 1)When I upload it, what do I put in "Source"? I put her name in "Author", I think.


 * 2)Do I copy the permission template into a Word file? Or exactly how do I use the template?


 * 3) On the permission form it says "Insert Link"

a)How do I insert a link?  b)Can I use the same permission for all four images?


 * 4) For the type of permission, it seems that I should be able to click and choose the license, but I can't seem to make it work.


 * Please pardon my stupidity in this area. I'm pretty sure I'm just missing some basics. Lvklock (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The template is kind of a one size fits all thing, so for your situation, the source and the author are redundant. A situation that I had today where the source and the author were not the same thing was where the source was NASA and the author was a satellite. It should be sufficient to use the author name in author and in source or put your own name in the source since you are doing all of this work to get the image here. -- carol (talk) 21:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Hope you can help. I'd like to get these in. Lvklock (talk) 15:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * (Replying here so the conversation stays together) It's my understanding that the wikimedia uploading system is a bit deliberately unhelpful for your uploading a pic provided by someone else.  I suppose they want to make it hard, to discourage lots of uploading without proper permission.  So, what i have seen in answer to someone else, is, go ahead and upload it as if it your own picture.  Say it is your picture, that is the closest option.  Then, after, you can edit the info.


 * I wasn't sure about how, so it's taken me a little while to respond. But that's what i did earlier today to upload your pic of the octagon house.  First of all, you're uploading at commons, right, not at wikipedia?  You should upload at commons, for various reasons. Anyhow at commons.wikimedia.org, I logged in and went through the "upload now" sequence, asserting it was my pic.  Then, I hit the "File" tab (which showed as a red-link, appearing not to be something that i could click on, but it worked) and it brought me to an edit screen with the basic facts.  I then manually edited it to show your username rather than mine, and saved.  And it seems to look okay: [[Image:WilcoxOctagonHouse 2008-06-19 cropped sm030.jpg|50px]] shows u as creator now.  It probably will always be part of the history record, somehow visible to experts although not apparent to me right now, that it was i who did the upload at first.  Which would be accurate/appropriate.  And which works.  I suggest u just follow that process for ur friend's pics.


 * The only further variation i would explore is, when you go through the process to submit "your own" pic, just before you finally submit it seemed to give me a screen where i saw my name as submitter and it looked like i could edit that. Perhaps that will work, to edit your own name before it goes in (or perhaps that generates an error).  But if you miss your chance to change your name, no problem, just edit after it is submitted, hitting the "file" tab.  Hope this suffices, let me know!  doncram (talk) 00:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * P.S. Under "Source" it just shows "Own work by uploader". The system filled that in automatically for me, because i was in the "upload own work" mode.  I think that's fine, it's the closest we can get given deliberate system limitations, and the effect apparent is that it is the renamed person's uploading and choice to use whichever license, which is correct to convey (as ur friend has indeed authorized / delegated you to do the uploading and license choice, it is in fact your friend's choice reflected).

GA thanks
I believe I forgot to thank you for your help on this one earlier: --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Urgent Message
What date do I use for expansion? clariosophic (talk) 01:07, 20 June 2008 (UTC) Is the 15th OKclariosophic (talk) 01:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

4th of july or bust
sure, I can take a look at the list for NJ again dm (talk) 12:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I added about 8 photos yesterday and reworked the descriptions. I also broke out the lawrenceville school article for you. dm (talk) 12:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

NPS Cuyahoga Valley National Park
Did you see something which I specifically did "wrong" so far?

As far as I know, all the Brige/Cuyahoga Valley National Park/Ohio and Erie Canal images I posted to Commons.WikiMedia.Org so far were either done by the National Park Service, or under contract to the National Park Service, becoming Public Domain (as opposed to images the NPS only has permission to use but possibly not distribute, like the "credited" Canal (flood damage) images you pointed out (which may or may not have been done under contract, and if they were done under contact and credited, they were probably incidental to other contract work, and thus not a "deliverable" nor "government property/public domain".

Yes, I saw them (CVNP flood ... credited by) before you pointed them out and I believe I was careful to avoid "credited" images; for the most part they either did not contain the contents which I was looking for (the categories above, as well as either lakes or rivers) and I try to avoid "credited" images. Did I miss something? After checking to make sure there was not an accreditation (by ... or stated copyright), I uploaded the images as PD-Gov and updated to flag to PD-Gov-Interior-NPS.

A murkier area is the "Historic American Engineering Record" (HAER) hosted on the Memory.LoC.Gov site, but performed by either the National Park Service or under contract to them. When work is performed under contract to the U.S. government, any "deliverables" (with rare exceptions: mostly "licensed" computer software) become government property, and thus public domain. Many of these HAER images are credited as by ... but I believe they are government property/public domain (I am researching and will provide the link to the HAER permissions/use statements).

I mention the HAER because it might be of interest to others? and I do not want to step on any toes, I am going to put some more "Tinkers Creek Aqueduct" images on Commons.WikiMedia.Org (which will be from the HAER). Is there a recommended guideline/method which I can use to post the HAER copyright/permissions statement somewhere on Wiki(Media/pedia) and then reference it when I post HAER images? Also if HAER has different permission classes/uses, a method by which I can flag which one? LeheckaG (talk) 14:18, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Received your reply. Which PD tag/template should HAER images use on WikiMedia?


 * Received your reply; "It is from a US federal government source" puts the general tag/template PD-USGov on the image. I have been updating them to the more specific tag/template of PD-USGov-Interior-NPS.  I took a look at, and apparently I can use HAER ?  which will accept one parameter, the HAER reproduction number.  I guess I wish they called it PD-USGov-HAER instead, but I understand at least why they did not put it under -Interior (because of the dual Interior/Library of Congress nature).  HABS on the other hand, they put under PD-USGov-Interior-HABS ?  I wish they were more consistent... Not sure how I request someone to move/rename HAER to PD-USGov-HAER ? To be consistent:
 * PD-USGov-Interior-HABS should be moved/renamed PD-USGov-HABS
 * HAER should be moved/renamed PD-USGov-HAER
 * HALS should be moved/renamed PD-USGov-HALS

I can do the moves, but not sure what might break? Wiki is supposed to automatically take care of it, but I have had mixed results moving things LeheckaG (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

New England NHLs
I see you've been doing alot of work on the NHLS. I'll try to go through some of the ME, RI, and MA NHLS to see that they have the basics. Swampyank (talk) 14:23, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Clickable state maps
Hi Don ... Where did you come up with the clickable maps for the Alabama and Florida NRHP lists? I just finished table-izing the Connecticut counties and I wanted to put a map in the state article. I'll watch your talk page if you want to reply here. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 02:31, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, i literally found the AL one in use at List of counties in Alabama. I think Ebyabe then found the FL one.  I wonder, but don't know, if these all exist for all states somewhere.  Note Image:Alabama counties map.png has some mention of being taken from some US-PD something.  Hope this helps, or soffy ir its a ead dend.... doncram (talk) 03:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I dropped by here to ask a question but I just made one for Ohio; drop me a note if you'd like for another state. (Template:List of Registered Historic Places in Ohio topnav) §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  15:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I created the one for Florida, based on the Alabama one. There's no easy way I've found to do it. But the nice thing is that, once done, it can be adapted for other uses for that state. Keep the good work going, y'all. ;) --Ebyabe (talk) 16:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

New infobox params
Hi there, on Tinkers Creek Aqueduct, with the new params it show both the map of Ohio and the image. Is there a way to keep the map hidden as it was before? Thanks! §hep  •   ¡Talk to me!  15:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! §hep   •   ¡Talk to me!  16:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Stephen Custer
A tag has been placed on Stephen Custer requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for musical topics.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 22:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I contested the speedy, and it was eventually removed by another editor. Thank you, to several people who contributed edits to the article! doncram (talk) 08:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for help
I have to thank you for your help on Confederate Monument in Lawrenceburg. Gothbag (talk) 23:02, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the understanding comment. Smallbones (talk) 14:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Re:Pictures
I've e-mailed the pictures to you again. Let me know what you think. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 15:41, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Image:George R Kress House 2337BenedictCanyonDrive sm1.jpg
Regarding this image, someone has written in to OTRS to say that this is not the Kress house. Are you sure that you took the photo of the right house? Thanks.  howcheng  {chat} 16:53, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked Google Maps and looking at the satellite picture, the roof of house in question doesn't seem to match the house in your picture (at the street view, I can see 2334 Benedict Canyon, so I assume that 2337 is on the opposite side).  howcheng   {chat} 16:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the house is in a gated area, and this was in fact my best estimate of which one it is, i am not positive it is the right one. It is hard to match up houses from addresses at street level vs. from the hillside across the way, especially as there multiple mailboxes for several house numbers given behind each of several gates, and you can't see the houses from the street.  There is in fact a large house with a different address from the Kress house at the next gate up, but trees obscure the house from street view, so i can't absolutely rule out this is the one in my picture from above, though i thought it was not.


 * My latitude and longitude coordinates now reflected in George R. Kress House stub article, are from the National Register of Historic Places' NRIS system, and are slightly north of the Google address coordinates, in fact directly on the latitude line of that big grayish-roofed house with dormers. Coordinates from NRIS are sometimes approximate however. (REVISED)


 * Actually i can confirm that the Google satellite location you point to, is at the gateway to three houses, including the Kress house, the 2337 one. It's not completely clear whether the big gray-roofed house with windows protruding from its roof, that i took a picture of, is accessed via another gate or by that entrance.  Can the person describe which house, in the satellite view, is the Kress house?  Perhaps it is the big brownish-roofed house which is aligned on a SSW to NNE line, directly to the left of the "Mark Pl" label? doncram (talk) 17:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, my picture is from a public road up the opposing hillside, i did not trespass on any private property, though i felt a bit like a papparrazi(sp?) to be taking a telephoto-style pic in that area. Given that someone is choosing to communicate via OTRS, in private, rather than contacting me publicly, i imagine someone is concerned privacy-wise.  If that is the case, I'm not unsympathetic, although we do have freedom of panorama and I don't know of any legal grounds or wikimedia policy that would require deletion of a photo like this.  Is that the case?


 * If the person asserts that something like this is going on, I propose that I would indeed consent to having this pic permanently deleted, and to try to avoid including that house in any other pics, if the person would assist my obtaining a pic of the right house:
 * If they know the Kress house owner, perhaps they would be willing to forward a request from me for permission to visit and photograph that house?
 * Or they could assist in identifying the correct house from a wider angle pic or two that i could make available.
 * Perhaps the person could email me, using the email link on my wikipedia page, and i could email other photos. It could be anonymously on their end if they create, say, a temporary free account (gmail is good for sending and receiving pictures).
 * I haven't tried Google earth yet, perhaps that would show the alternatives more clearly.
 * Please feel free make another suggestion (can i email another wide pic or two to you directly?)
 * doncram (talk) 17:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The person who wrote in simply said the photo was incorrect and he would be willing to send us a photo of the correct house. No other issues were raised. I am in the process of discussing licensing with him, but I don't know how he knows which is one is the correct house -- I'll have to get clarification on that. Thanks.  howcheng  {chat} 18:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, good. It would be great if he would submit a photo of the correct house.  It would also be nice if he could explain to you how he knows it is the correct house, yes, though I would tend to believe his assertion.  And it would be great if he could describe which of the Google-satellite-visible houses is the right one.  I may be able, eventually, to confirm his pic is of the correct house, if the NRHP nomination documents (that are not available on-line, but i can request be sent from Washington) include photographs.  Photos accompanying an NRHP nomination, however, are usually not public domain, so a new pic would be really helpful. doncram (talk) 18:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it turns out he is not willing to release a photo under a free license, but he is willing to help you out. I will email his contact info to you.  howcheng  {chat} 17:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

NYC NHL Pics
I added a photo of the vicinity of Wards Point over the weekend, so I think we're at 100% for NYC photos...  The nhl sign for wards point is located inside the visitors center at the Conference House. They only had seasonal workers, but everything I saw confirmed what we expected. dm (talk) 01:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Chicago list of RHPs
Epworth Methodist Episcopal Church was added on June 10; I think I've covered most of the data, but I didn't have the coordinates. (Changing all the numbers on the list is a big nuisance.) MisfitToys (talk) 02:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Historic sites in Canada
In case you missed it, I responded to your message on my talk page. Mind matrix  14:01, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

New tables
Thank you. Very kind of you to convert them into tables with the location data. :-) I'll use them, for sure. Tracking down the  properties is not always an easy task so any help is goodness, indeed.

I recently went to the U.S. Virgin Islands and took some pictures from the List of Registered Historic Places in the United States Virgin Islands. I'm uploading the images to Commons and plan to start the articles on Thursday. I want to finish them so I can get back to working on the more local sites.

If I get too far behind on writing the articles for the historic location images that I have, I might upload the images to Commons and leave a note pointing out where to find them in case someone else wants to use them in a new article.

Again, thanks for making the tables. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 22:08, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Old Courthouse
Did you see I found where that was copied from? Should I just delete the passage? Lvklock (talk) 02:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

USS Oriskany Dive Photos
I saw your suggestion for Oriskany pictures.

I will be diving the Mighty O next week (July 4 and 5 2008). I will be taking high quality photos and will make them available here if someone can show me how. Email me at jetlife2@mac.com. Thanks Gareth Richards Jetlife2 (talk) 17:50, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * great! i responded at Talk:USS Oriskany (CV-34) and by email. doncram (talk) 18:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Natural Bridge (Virginia)
Take a look at this and give me your opinion about where to add an nrhp infobox and which pic, if any you'd put in it. I'm kinda leaning toward put it at the top in the usual place and leave the map in it, but then I'd probably need to rearrange other pics, which I like. Lemme know what you think. Lvklock (talk) 18:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Los Angeles Times Building
This link is to an LA Conservancy publication on LA's art deco buildings, and includea a fair bit about the LA Times building: http://dbase1.lapl.org/webpics/calindex/documents/17/35358.pdf Cbl62 (talk) 02:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Thought this might be helpful to point people at articles that need pictures
User:Dmadeo/nhl-no-photo - I manually cut out the table lines for nhl articles without photos so that I could map out what remains. I only put in through delaware right now, but wanted to see if others thought this was useful before putting more time in it... dm (talk) 01:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

HELP!
Hi there, I know you're really busy but I'm about to fly through the roof with the recents edits to Talk:Tinkers Creek Aqueduct. I really don't want to go to their talkpage as I'm totally fed up with said editor and don't want to type out something I'll regret. There's a lot of WP:OWN and not alot of WP:AGF goin on from them. Any ideas? §hep  •   ¡Talk to me!  03:46, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in Chicago
I see several unpictured buildings in List of Registered Historic Places in Chicago are in my neighborhood (Hyde Park, Chicago). I will help out in July. I have been in New Orleans and Memphis for more than two weeks. Look for forthcoming pics.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * WRT to tomorrow's deadline, tomorrow's weather report anticipates thunderstorms and I have errands to run, plus WP month end duties to complete. I will likely not be submitting.  Thanks for the notice.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I live at the Hampton House, which is next door to Hotel Del Prado, which is diagonally across the street from East Park Towers. EPT is on the NW corner and HDP is on the SE corner.  Since the sun was in the east this morning I could only shoot EPT this morning.  I will get HDP soon, but I can only get it in the afternoon and evening and the forecast had afternoon showers.  I have been on my backup computer while on vacation and I am suppose to pickup my primary today.  I will be trying to restore software and reconfigure will be hectic today.  I am not sure when I will upload photos, but I am working on things.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

NHL photo contest
After going through my images; I've decided on at least five:


 * The carousel photo. Yes it's bit blurry in parts (and no, the carousel wasn't moving when I took it), but overall I think it conveys the feel of that carousel, and the reasons for its NHL status (the woodworking). Maybe the blurs even help.


 * The Hudson River photo that I really felt lucky to get and that we both love.


 * Grey Towers National Historic Site, ironically enough given our recent disagreement. I really like how that's turned out.


 * Misty winter morning at Goose Neck Cove, used for Ocean Drive Historic District. Great title, for one thing. I realized when I was taking that picture that the fog and winter might actually have made that scene more beautiful. It does just scream New England, and make you want a bowl of chowder. It feels like a nice watercolor. Although, judging by the people who are always stopped there photographing it (both times I've been there I have never had it to myself), it must be the most popular photo spot on Ocean Drive. Wonder if anyone else will submit it?


 * The one I took of Harmony Mills recently. I really love the color, and that this angle gives you a sense of the enormity of the building (you aren't even looking at half of it here).

I had thought of the Elephant Hotel one, too. Maybe. And John Jay ... it does have that Currier and Ives feel to it.

I can't submit anything from outside the Northeast as that's where everything I've shot or visited is. But hey, if that increases my odds ...

I will add that info to your photo credits page ... it's missing quite a few of mine. Daniel Case (talk) 02:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I was up in the Capital District Tuesday, and got a contemporary photo of the Gurley Building (as well as every other RHP in downtown Troy (six or seven HDs!)), which, as per my practice, I'll be jumping in my queue and uploading soon. I got a few other scattered RHPs (more of the many NY post offices from that late-'80s MPS: Troy, of course (nice big neoclassical early '30s building) and Delmar (older-looking Colonial Revival), which I'll upload and develop articles on when I get to them (by the end of summer, at my rate). Lately, as you may also have noticed, I've gotten a few from Long Island as well. I added that color picture of the front cottage at the John Philip Sousa House ... I wish I could shoot the house, but judging from the HABS image you would only be able to get a good clear pic of it from the water (Sands Point is The Great Gatsby ' s East Egg, and still feels a little like it, too). You would not believe how strongly they seem to be discouraging visitors. Hicks Lane has a sign telling you it's a private road, then the actual Sousa House is fenced and gated. Definitely they do not want the company. But at least you have to like that cottage ... it's architecturally similar to the Main House.

Oh, also, as you may have noticed as well I finally got a picture of the Arden house via Flickr (Ironically, the photographer in question is a childhood acquaintance I haven't seen in years). Daniel Case (talk) 02:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I sent in an envelope with all five of the ones I said I was going to get this morning. Checked the photo credits page and added two in NJ I didn't know if you knew about (Craftsman Farms and Thomas Nast Home). Daniel Case (talk) 04:38, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

can you double check something for me?
Landing Beaches; Aslito/Isley Field; & Marpi Point, Saipan Island has something wrong with the template, but I cant figure it out. Could you take a look? I'm signing off tonight. thanks dm (talk) 03:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * doh! of course that makes sense it has a hard time mapping a pacific island on the map of the us.  Thanks! dm (talk) 13:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

LA Historic Cultural Monuments
I came across an updated list of the city's Historic-Cultural Monuments updated through June 2008. It can be seen at http://preservation.lacity.org/files/HCM%20Database%20Updated%20060408.pdf. We should probably start using this link for future HCM articles. Cbl62 (talk) 21:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Photo contest
Hey, thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately, I got the message a tad late, and actually, though I've taken probably 300 photos of NRHPs, I think I've only got like two NHLs, I've just uploaded a lot of PD photos of NHLs. Maybe next year! Murderbike (talk) 22:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

List of National Historic Landmarks in Pennsylvania (and Philadelphia)
Hi Don, I am still checking List of National Historic Landmarks in Pennsylvania but should finish it today and will also check List of National Historic Landmarks in Philadelphia before the 4th. Thanks for making the article for the only PA red link, I can probably turn out a few starts if needed - just point me to a list with red links Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 11:15, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I am adding the nrhp infobox if there is none and making sure the coordinates and refs for the NHL and NRHP dates are there, which is why I am only 2/3 of the way through PA and have not started Philly. I am not sure how to tell if something is a NHL district - where does it say this? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 15:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Infobox generator question
I replied to your infobox generator question at my talk page. (A few days late, but that's because I've been busy lately.) Also, I'll probably be 99% unavailable between Thursday and Sunday, since I'll be at CONvergence. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 21:03, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Windmills
The windmills list was an excellent idea. Glad to add a few stubs. Editing wikipedia is always a bit like tilting at windmills. ;) Nice photo from a pretty remote location. Swampyank (talk) 21:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

stubs
Please read Stub, your idea that bare references = stub is just incorrect. "Sizable articles are usually not considered stubs, even if they lack wikification or copy editing. With these articles, a cleanup template is usually added instead of a stub template." --Rividian (talk) 00:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

PR experiment
Dear Doncram, I'm writing in hopes of enlisting your aid in a four-month experiment at Peer Review (PR). The success of the experiment will depend on finding at least 10 editors willing to review at least one article a week through the end of October 2008. The experiment will employ a streamlined review process designed to insure that every nominator who seeks a review gets one and that reviewers do not waste time doing long reviews for nominators who do not respond to an initial short review.

The way it works is this: (1) Choose any article at Peer Review that lacks a review. Peer reviews by date, especially the backlog list, is still a good place to find such articles. (2) Provide a short partial review based on your initial observations and wait to see if the nominator responds. Examples of short reviews can be found at Peer review/Foreign relations of India/archive1 and Peer review/Ed Stelmach/archive1. (3) If the nominator does not respond, the review is done. (4) If the nominator responds, continue the review as you see fit.

The experiment will require no noticeable administration. However, if you plan to participate, it would be helpful if you posted a brief note to Wikipedia talk:Peer review to that effect. At the end of October, we can see how the experiment turned out and whether this process or some modification of it could sustain Peer Review permanently with minimal backlogs. If you can help, that would be great. If not, that's perfectly OK. We are all tremendously busy with a lot of different projects.

I have chosen to write to you in part because you've done peer reviews from the backlog during the past four months. Please forgive the form-letter nature of this note, which is more efficient than a personal note. With respect and thanks for your hard work on many projects, Finetooth (talk) 04:55, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Michigan-Wacker Historic District
Can you tell me the bounds of the Michigan-Wacker Historic District? Does it include the following Chicago Landmarks
 * 333 North Michigan
 * 360 North Michigan
 * Michigan Avenue Bridge
 * Fort Dearborn
 * 35 East Wacker
 * Mather Tower
 * Heald Square Monument

Does it go north of the Chicago River to include the Wrigley Building or Tribune Tower?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Responding here to keep this conversation together. Sometimes NRIS database includes rough outlines of districts, but quick report from Elkman NRHP infobox generator indicates only: "Michigan Ave. and Wacker Dr. and environs, Chicago, IL". It also mentions Architect: Holabird & Roche and Architecture: Gothic, Other, Skyscraper, which might be suggestive for you.  Further it mentions "See Also:Jean Baptiste Point Du Sable Homesite" suggesting to me that Jean Baptiste Point Du Sable Homesite is probably included.  NRIS listings for historic districts often mention NRHPs that the district includes.  To really know the borders for this one, i think you need the NRHP inventory/nomination documents and photos.  Send an email request to nr_reference (at) nps.gov, especially as you would want other info in those to write the article.


 * The actual NRIS historic district documents would be better, but, checking the Illinois state site, and blundering around there a bit, i get to a report on Michigan-Wacker that indicates 35 East Wacker, 333 North Michigan, 360 North Michigan, and the bridge house if not the whole bridge, at least, are included. Hope this helps! doncram (talk) 20:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * FURTHER, I ACTUALLY CAN GET to the scanned PDF document for the district, 11 pages, with map showing exact boundaries on page 11. I got to it by going in further on one of the included properties, it is a file named 200181.pdf. doncram (talk) 20:11, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Following is my cut and paste of that entire screen mentioned in a report, obtained one or two clicks past this inquiry:


 * NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT REPORT

Name / Location Significant Name: Michigan-Wacker Historic District Other Name: Location: Michigan Ave. and Wacker Dr. and environs City: Chicago Vicinity: No County: Cook Not For Pub.: No Archaeology Component: Reference Number: 200181

Historic District Property Details Back to Standing Structures Report

Significant Name: Washington, George; Morris, Robert; and Salomon, Haym, Memorial Location: Heald Square Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Michigan Ave Bridge House Location: Michigan Ave, Chicago river Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Bell Building Location: 301 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: 333 N. Michigan Location: 333 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 336 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: London Guarantee & Accident Location: 342 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Carbide and Carbon Building Location: 230 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 300 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Old Republic Building Location: 307 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 310 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 316 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 323 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Shriner's Building Location: 323 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 326 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 333 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 334 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 336 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Stone Container Building Location: 360 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Michigan Avenue Bridge and Bridgehouse Location: 365 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 400 N. Michigan Ave. Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Wrigley Building and Annex Location: 400 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Du Sable, Jean Baptiste Point, Homesite Location: 401 N. Michigan Ave. Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Tribune Tower Location: 435 N. Michigan Av Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Tribune Building Location: 435 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Location: 505 N. Michigan Ave. Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Medinah Athletic Club Location: 505 North Michigan Avenue Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Fort Dearborn Site Location: Michigan Ave. and Wacker Drive Intersection Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Parking Garage Location: 57 East South Water Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Millinery Mart Location: 65 East South Water Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Chicago Motor Club Building Location: 66 East South Water Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Wabash Avenue Bridge Location: Wabash Ave. at Chicago River Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Oxford House Hotel Location: 225 North Wabash Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: North American Life Insurance Building Location: 35 East Wacker Building Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Seventeenth Church of Christ Scientist Location: 55 East Wacker Drive Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Executive House Location: 71 East Wacker Drive Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

Significant Name: Lincoln Tower Building Location: 75 East Wacker Drive Generate new Property Information Report with this Property

I can't tell much from the shot you showed me. Is Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago) in the district?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I think what you mean is the screen at "this inquiry" above, is not that helpful, and i agree. I think you have not gotten to the PDF document and its map, which I am pretty sure would answer your question.  To get there, try this sequence:


 * 1) click on "this inquiry" above
 * 2) select "Report", which opens a new window with "PROPERTY INFORMATION REPORT"
 * 3) in that window scroll down to "Surveys of Property" section, and select "View Background Documentation", which opens the PDF
 * 4) The PDF is the NRHP Inventory/Nomination report for the district, 11 pages, prepared by a Robert Wagner. It lists the contributing and non-contributing buildings in the district, with additional info, and page 11 is a map of the district.  I don't know how to address it by a single URL.  I added it as a reference, without URL, to the Michigan-Wacker Historic District article.  Does this work for you now? doncram (talk) 21:48, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I got the URL (you can see it when clicking on the link to it), and added the direct URL to the reference in the article. Also, FYI, i am adding to instructions about how to use the Illinois HARGIS system, in the resources section of the wp:NRHP main page. It is not as easy as it should be. doncram (talk) 22:24, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

List_of_Registered_Historic_Places_in_Chicago picture taking
I had my first picture taking trip for List_of_Registered_Historic_Places_in_Chicago. I am going to watch the fireworks in Grant Park (Chicago) tonight, so I got the three blocks west of the park today. It is 13 buildings. I will add them momentarily.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fireworks are probably going to be over the Northern end of the park and possibly as far north as Navy Pier. My nightshots are not so great with the Canon PowerShot TX1.  The night setting does not do so well with moving subjects at night.  I am not even sure what to do except set it for nightscape shooting. I did not even bring my tripod downtown.  I hope you saw my post immediately above this one.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The whole Museum Campus is a bit south of the fireworks. My real problem is night shooting with my camera.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I finally got around to doing most of my neighborhood. I think I finished up Kenwood, Chicago and only a few buildings on the west side of the street in Hyde Park, Chicago remain for List of Registered Historic Places in Chicago.  I think I got everything that is on the east side, but I need to shoot earlier in the day when the sun is behind me or above me for the west side buildings.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Loop Retail Historic District
Can you tell me what buildings contribute to the Loop Retail Historic District. Possibly some of the ones I shot today do. The text format that you gave earlier is best.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 20:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I added the NRHP Registration document for the district, a 137 page document seemingly describing all of its buildings and including a map at the end, to the Loop Retail Historic District article. doncram (talk) 22:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

PA and Philly NHLs
I will keep plugging away at updating the PA and Philly NHLs. I see you and Lvlock (sp?) have checked them all. Sorry not to have made all the fixes by midnight PA time. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

PS I found this about covered bridges which mentions the NY longest covered bridge (Blenheim?) you are interested in. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

NHLs
For a second I was really wondering what was going on there :p Although I like to hang around those articles (which are interesting, as I do edit similar Quebec articles, it's also part of what I do to point new articles needing attention to projects), I'm not American, and not that interested in writing, as opposed to editing them (not to mention I wouldn't be that good at finding information). Circeus (talk) 16:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd love to assist in kick-starting a Canada Historic Sites project, though I can't guarantee I'll stay very long. I'm notorious for waltzing in and out of projects and am not really active in any ATM. Circeus (talk) 18:54, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, historic designation in Canada is a right mess AFAI understand it. The federal government manages several distinct programs (e.g. Heritage railway stations, National Historic Sites, the latter of which is much more significant IMHO than the political listings frequent in the U.S.), and the provinces manage prominent programs of their own. In Quebec alone, there are 7 or so different heritage categories, and several can be designated at either the provincial or municipal level (although only the larger actually cities bother with historical preservation), the federal "register" is really a compendium (with a downright awful organissation and updating schedule) of stuff submitted by the provinces. Circeus (talk) 01:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

4th or July or bust

 * Thanks for the barnstar, it's my first! You're welcome.  It was fun to have a short-term goal.  To echo Dmadeo, "now what do we do?" Maybe FL status for NY?Lvklock (talk) 18:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the very kind words.:) I appreciate all of your help over the course of this journey. –Cg-realms (talk • contribs) 01:41, 05 July 2008 (EDT)


 * Thanks for the star for my small efforts and congratulations on a job well done. Staib (talk) 22:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Main Street Commercial Historic District
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Main Street Commercial Historic District, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Pichpich (talk) 19:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I deleted Prod delettion proposal after creating articles for 2 of the 6 NRHPs covered in the disambiguation page. Hopefully that takes care of that. doncram (talk) 19:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Onondaga County War Memorial
Thanks for the kind words about the photo I added. I'll be joining the Syracuse WikiProject and adding some more Syracuse photos as I get time. Crazyale (talk) 22:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

USS Arizona
The USS Arizona (BB-39) article that the List of U.S. National Historic Landmark ships, shipwrecks, and shipyards links to is different than the one Dmadeo split out to separate it from the memorial, which is USS Arizona (shipwreck). I'd imagine they need to be combined. Lvklock (talk) 03:14, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Work on joint Lighthouse/NRHP infobox
I've put together a version of the lighthouse infobox that also takes NRHP parameters. You can see it in action at User:Mangoe/Point Judith Light.

I've left off the locator map, for now, and haven't dealt with the categorization piece. (We lighthouse people do it the old-fashioned way.) If you want to try to put those in, be my guest. A lot of lighthouse articles have decimal degrees rather than DMS, and I wasn't sure how that would work with the locator map stuff. Mangoe (talk) 03:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Naming of lighthouse articles has prompted squabbles from time to time. The lighthouse WP decided some time back to standardize with "XX Light" instead of "XX Lighthouse" in the US, because the former is the official USCG name, and we didn't want to refight the battle over and over as to whether this or that light was more commonly called by one or the other name locally. It's a very safe bet that a large group of people-- that is, people out on the water in boats-- call them "lights", because that's what it says on the charts. But it has never seemed to me to be genuinely possible to produce a good argument as to which is more common, in spite of fervent arguments one way or the other. Mangoe (talk) 15:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

date and name checking
So, this is the formatting I need for dates, correct? Now, point me to NPS NHL_List PDF. I'm not sure which one that is. Lvklock (talk) 18:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So, if the list says Arkansas Post, and it links to an article called Arkansas Post National Memorial, would you still say also known as Arkansas Post? Seems redundant to me.  In this particular case, it's an IUCN article. Lvklock (talk) 02:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I was checking the List of National Historic Landmarks in Nevada list against the The Nevada NHL list. The NHL list shows Leonard Rockshelter 2X, but not the Francis G. Newlands House at all. I thought this was the definitive list. How do I know that our list is correct? Lvklock (talk) 23:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It is the entire 118 page list that I'm using. I just had the link from a message on my talk page to copy, so I used the individual state list in my message.  Thanks for the reassurance that our list is correct. Lvklock (talk) 04:47, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I like the new table of List articles. But, shouldn't all 54 of them be in the table? I know the check I've been working on is done for the others, but there's likely to be other uses for the table. Lvklock (talk) 00:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Coloma and refs
Hi,

I just wrote a lengthy reply to your comments, and promptly previewed it and accidently deleted it without saving. I'm not sure I'm up for a lengthy rewrite, so let me see if I can summarize the points

a) I typically do not check edit history, though I do look at talk pages. So I did not see you had broken it out.  IMHO, the park, the ghost town, and Sutters Mill all overlap to some degree that is impossible to describe without getting different sources or going there.  Again, IMHO, Coloma is listed on the NHL guide and is not an actual city, so that article is where the NHL infobox should be.  The park should be a separate article, as should Sutters Mill.  They all need some editing to bring them into their respective focus points.   There's a lot of gray areas here and no definitively correct way to do it.  Do you care enough to revert the changes and spend the time to make the articles better?

b) I find this NPS link useful when it's up. Or google with the refnum and "nhl".   Personally, I believe we should put all available references into each article.  They often say similiar things, but they often include a statement or point of view that sheds new light.  I dont know why we would want to remove one source in favor of another.  I think they can co-exist

c) Reference styles. I'm the first to admit I dont like using the cite template.  I could look at using this mozilla plugin or something like it.  On the other hand, I can also see a bot going around and fixing the references too.    Without sounding too cavalier, I hope you can appreciate that I'm more focused on making the articles work and the lists complete, than worrying about the reference formating.  Making sure there are references is something I hope you can agree I've been completely supportive of.

In short, sorry if you feel I stepped on your toes. If you feel strongly enough, revert the changes and then find a way to improve all three articles. I dont get into edit wars, I find something else to interest me.

PS: If you look at our respective talk page history, you'll note this was the first topic we had discussions about re nyc/nys nhl references

Thanks dm (talk) 23:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope there's no hard feelings here. There's still a lot of good cleanup to do on the nhl articles. dm (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Photoreq in Wisconsin
I have taken many pictures of RHP and RHD in Wisconsin during my travels, so before adding a photo request for one, please check the city's article and the List of RHP articles to see if a picture already exists. Otherwise you could check the appropriate county or RHP category in Commons for the picture.  Royal broil  12:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about the article Main Street Commercial Historic District (Reedsburg, Wisconsin) in this case, but this problem has come up before with other RHP contributors. I was just asking for you to review new articles for existing images; I didn't intend for you to have to look through the existing articles. I love your idea to add county tables for each RHP in Wisconsin. I'd love to be able to add new and existing photos to that list so they're easier to find. These tables will end the problems that I have been trying to address.  Royal broil  05:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the invite to WP:NRHP, but I need to decline for I'm already in too many WikiProjects. I try to restrict my involvement to those core WikiProjects where I spend most of my time. There are other WikiProjects that I could join. I've been watching the List of RHP in Wisconsin article for several months already.  Royal broil  12:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

FL NHL map
Ok, so here's the thing. I'm playing around with making a clickable map for NHLs in Florida. It's done, but I'm stuck on multiple sites in one city. Like St. Augustine, or even Fort Walton Beach. I don't want to make lists for each city's NHLs, especially silly for ones with only two. I thought about making a list of all of them and sectioning it, then having the links on the map point to each section. But what would I call that? List of places in Florida with multiple National Historic Landmarks? I mean, ick. Ruminations, please? :) --Ebyabe (talk) 22:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh why, oh why didn't I discover this template sooner? It mightn't solve all the problems, but it would have made having to place those dots unnecessary! Live and learn, I suppose... :) --Ebyabe (talk) 00:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

dts2 dates in WI NRHP table done
Hi Don ... I made the edits to the dates you requested in the WI NRHP county tables ... for smallish tables like those, it's actually just as fast or faster to make the edits in a WP window instead of copying them out to a spreadsheet. It took me less than 10 minutes to do them one by one. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 06:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Octagon Barns, etc.
Hi, Thanks for your message. What I'm working on in place of what you said is a List of octagonal buildings and structures in the United States, which would include: Barber shops; Barns and other farm buildings; Churches, chapels, synagogues; Forts; Halls; Hospitals and insane asylums; Hotels; Houses (only those not on the List of octagon houses, with a main article link To that list); Jails; Libraries; Lighthouses; Markets; Office buildings; Post offices; Schools; Stores and Others. The barn category is the largest, probably in the 30s, maybe more. It might support a separate list, but I'm discovering that some have been torn down despite their NRHP status. The rest are scattered with 1 to 5 or so in each category. See User:Clariosophic/sandbox14 for what I've gathered so far. There may well be structures in Canada, but I haven't looked that hard for them. Perhaps the list could be for North America and not just the U.S. I would prefer, though to keep it separate from the world list. Fowler probably influenced most of our structures except those predating him of course. Your thoughts and insights would be appreciated. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 17:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See Lead 5, disregard houses on the main list and disregard other leads, most of which were used to update my articles created list. clariosophic (talk) 18:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've gone ahead and created List of octagonal buildings and structures in the United States. The talk page has a list of articles done and to be done. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 23:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the barnstar you posted. I'm glad you've found those links useful. Maybe one day, when I have time, I'll even write my own article. Jfknrh (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Watts Station
I have now added some further context and precision that addresses your points about the Watts Station article. The suggestions were good ones, and I think the resulting article is now in pretty good shape. Let me know if you have other comments or suggestions.Cbl62 (talk) 01:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Fairbanks, Alaska - three NHLs
I am mostly around South-Eastern and South-Central Alaska (from British Columbia border up to the Matanuska-Susitna valley). I have been through Fairbanks a few times, but it has been a long time ago. Let me know more information about the three Fairbanks NHLs you are looking for pictures of and I will see what I can find, or if I happen to be going up that way (was not planning on it - but travel sometimes depends on my various friends' plans). I have been thinking a lot about "relative geography" lately, where it is not a big deal for me to travel great distances along my usual paths/routes, but more than so many miles (twenty or so?) "out of my way" is a big deal. Whereas traveling several hundred miles through South-East Alaska or across the continent to visit relatives does not seem like so big a deal. LeheckaG (talk) 19:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Oxford, Mississippi Historic District
Hey, thanks for the invite. Let me take a look at it more closely this weekend, as I'm working on some outside projects. I do appreciate it. Dudemanfellabra has done a great job with Meridian.--Parkwells (talk) 19:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Mount Lebanon Shaker Society HABS photo
Hello again. On my way to the Bash Bish Falls with a friend today, I finally found the actual location for the Mount Lebanon Shaker Society, which was not actually on Route 20 but down a very rural side road and now run as a private school. I moved the Historic American Buildings Survey photo of the main dwelling that you uploaded to a new gallery and made the main image a photo I took today of the same building in full color. I hope you don't mind.

I also added some photos I took today of the meetinghouse included in HABS catalog because it is quite distinctive. The marker was only added in 1980, so I made sure it wasn't "dominant" in the photo of it, so as to not run afoul of the copyright lawyers. –Cg-realms (talk • contribs) 23:40, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I could definitely get down to the First Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of Kingston in Kingston for updated pics. I might also be able to get up to Camp Uncas, depending on the current owner Dr. Howard Kirschenbaum's policy on visitors. I almost certainly won't be able to make it down to the city, and probably won't be able to make it down to Westchester county. –Cg-realms (talk • contribs) 16:06, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

re: nixon house et al
I havent gotten there yet, but am slowly working my way through the california nhl;s. One opinion I'd like of yours, the california missions have their own infobox which includes the nhl #, so no one has added the nhl infobox. I'm inclined to go ahead and add them though anyway. Thoughts? dm (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Richard Nixon Birthplace is set up dm (talk) 18:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome
You're welcome ;-)

We had loads of fun on the weekend trip. Unfortunately, the weather did not cooperate Sunday morning and was rainy while we were in Matewan. We got more from there that I'm going to up soon. I also need to get the Virgin Islands articles started. Have loads of great pics. Trying to make time to do them all this week. FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 12:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Sailors Snug Harbor
Hey, there's a merge proposal for Sailors Snug Harbor (ie: a NHL) with the Snug Harbor Cultural Center which covers a lot of newer things. I know you have an opinion on topics like this ... Talk:Snug Harbor Cultural Center is where the discussion is... dm (talk) 23:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your response to [Johnpacklambert]. I wonder what possible value a category of churches founded in a certain year really has. I also responded on his talk page. John Park (talk) 12:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Grand Lodge of West Virginia
I must caution both you and Bedford that you are violating the Three-revert rule. Please stop your edit wars. There are some legitimate questions about neutrality in the article and I will be editing it in the near future in accordance with WP:NPOV. Thanks. Truthanado (talk) 03:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * A suggestion has been made to add information about the lodge's activities prior to 2008. If you could do that, that would be a big help. Thanks. Truthanado (talk) 04:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Let me explain how the Associated Press URL error happened. I added the under-construction tag since I knew I would be editing for awhile. I didn't expect anyone to edit the article. You evidently changed it (the AP URL) while I was editing for NPOV. I noticed an edit conflict when I saved; since the changes were significant, I didn't notice the URL change. You correctly noticed it and corrected the URL that got lost in the edit conflict. Thanks. Truthanado (talk) 13:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As suggested in the Administrators' noticeboard discussion, this has been moved to Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents for further discussion and resolution. Truthanado (talk) 13:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

B Reactor
Hi, sorry I haven't gotten back to you about B-Reactor. I've been on a bit of a wikibreak, as I've been very busy offline. I will certainly keep an eye on the article draft in your userspace as well as the article in the mainspace, and I will try to help out as time allows, but unfortunately I'm not able to take the lead on it right now. Thanks again for your help with the Hanford article and thanks for letting me know about B-reactor being in the news. Northwesterner1 (talk) 07:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

FindingDulcinea.com
This site has been added to articles as part of a coordinated WP:COI/WP:SPAM attack on the encyclopedia. The people who added the links did so only as part of a marketing campaign. The articles do not meet WP:RS guidelines. Please do not restore the links. If you had a good faith idea that the articles were legit, that's fine, mistake made, but now that the Wikipedia spam project has identified the probloem and multiple editors have removed the links you have no reason to add them back. As the writing there is simply derivative of other sources, if you liked content in those articles, please go back to them, find the original sources used by the authors there, and then cite THOSE instead of a spam site. DreamGuy (talk) 18:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey
Glad to see you editing again. Regards. Lvklock (talk) 08:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

re captions on photos
Sure, I see your point. I was trimming them because with California at 135 entries with no clear way to split it up, the file is getting quite long and some of those captions (as you point out) were extremely verbose. I don't mind them being there otherwise. BTW: I'm just  doing 2-3 of the CA articles a day. Many of them have significant issues dm (talk) 11:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Nevada Theatre
An FYI that I nominated Nevada Theatre at Template talk:Did you know. Cheers, --Rosiestep (talk) 20:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Being a reply to that missive thou hast sent toward me
In truth, as if thy prying as to the thoughts that birthed such talk of cats within my mind were not damage enough to my fair honour: now thou dost besmirch, methinks, with mockerie the humble efforts of verse upon the page of mine own use - cribbed though they may be from a bard who is to mine humble self as all the seas a ship e'er sailed are to a meager brook-fed pool! Olaf Davis | Talk 23:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Eight million
You can email me the refs if you like, but the point is they should be in the article, and if for some reason they can't be put in the article, we can't use the fact as a hook. I did read the NHRP file in its entirety but I didn't see any mention of eight million migrants in that, so I'm not sure what ref. you are talking about. Gatoclass (talk) 01:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I did a little further checking and I don't think the eight million figure is credible, because according to one site about Ellis Island I looked at, the annual number of immigrants was reduced to about 600,000 from 1920 and to just 164,000 in 1924. Given that Machigonne was (according to the NRHP) ferrying immigrants from 1919 to 1930, that means that they could only have ferried at most about 2.7 million in those years by my calculation (and that assumes Machigonne was the only ferry doing this job). Gatoclass (talk) 02:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree it looks like a factoid so I'll run the original DYK hook. I have slightly altered the ship's history section though to conform with the NRHP account because although it differs somewhat from the Villager account, it provides a little more detail and presumably is more accurate.


 * Not sure why you had trouble with my email address, it is definitely enabled in my preferences. Gatoclass (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Plagerism
You may want to note over at WP:Plagerism that this has been worked out. Just a thought. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That was a good idea; I did go add a note there in response.
 * This is just a thought, but to make Tom's job at FAR a little easier you may want to consider striking your #1 comment about the plagiarism, if its crossed out then he will know its one less thing he has to deal with when he gets back here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.108.25.1 (talk) 22:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I don't believe that my editing anything further there at Featured article review/Iowa class battleship will help. My point #1 there was expressing what attracted my attention to the article, a phrase which has been removed.  Go ahead, add an addendum:  "The phrase was removed."  I think it would be more helpful if someone else did that than if i did.  Before that change was eventually made, I did already add clarifying comments in which I explained myself further to one or two persons who were taking offense, and a whole expanded discussion was moved to the corresponding talk page.  The remaining discussion is already an edited version.  If you wish to review the complete discussion and then see a way to edit the remaining discussion helpfully, you are welcome to do so. doncram (talk) 03:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem here, and what I think the anon is getting at, is that the complaints that are adressed should be struck, but in the spirit of AGF the guy who wrote the comment is usually called upon to do the striking. I'll wager thats what the above post concerns.
 * As to the other comment you left concerning the individual Iowas and your offer to search for specific quote from DANFS in the article: I can tell you right now that everything in the sections titled WWII and Korean War will be 99% copy and paste from DANFS. I have received suggestions from those who share your point of view that a direct copy/paste of a free source without using quotes consitutes plagerism, and I am looking into alternative to fix the situation, but this will take some time. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Re List of National Historic Landmarks in California
thanks for seconding, it was a lot more work than I expected and took about a month to work through, but ... I'm glad I did. I'll take a break and go back to work on another state soon. dm (talk) 07:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Old Stagecoach Trail - Old Santa Susana Stage Road
It turns out there is already an article on the Old Santa Susana Stage Road (one of our LA RHPs), but it was created under the common name Old Stagecoach Trail. It seems to me that the existing article ought to be renamed or appropriate redirects created. Rather than monkey with it myself, and since I wasn't sure about the correct procedure, I thought I'd call it to your attention. Cbl62 (talk) 18:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Pico Canyon Oilfield
I spent some time today beefing up the article you created on the Pico Canyon Oilfield. As the first RHP and NHL in LA County, I figured it deserved more than a stub. I plan to submit it as a DYK submission in both of our names if you'd like. If there's anything you can think to add to the article, or anything to improve the prose, have at it. I may try to get out there this weekend to take some photos. Let me know if you'd be interested in meeting out there.Cbl62 (talk) 05:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * One other thing. The NRHP listing shows Oil Field as two words, and that's how you have it in the intro sentence and info box.  But the article title shows as one word, "Oilfield."  Do you want to re-name the article "Pico Canyon Oil Field"?? Cbl62 (talk) 22:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not think there is a need for separate articles beyond the two that already exist. My only suggestion was that the title and the article should be consistent in using either "oil field" or "oilfield".  I think both are accepted English usage, and I have no preference as to which to use.Cbl62 (talk) 07:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Our Pico Canyon Oilfield article is scheduled to hit the main page around 2:30 or 3:00 this afternoon as part of the Next Update. I included you as a joint author.  Feel free to add any of your pics or edits to put it in best shape for the Main Page.  Cbl62 (talk) 17:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Photo for Ste. Claire (passenger steamboat)
Don,

I appreciate the feedback. Addressing your points one at a time: Andrew Jameson (talk) 13:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right that this particular photo is probably PD because of its age (I uploaded a number of NL photos last night). However, I interpreted the upload form as requiring a US Gov tag when uploading "a work from a U.S. federal government source" (there are no other options when choosing that as a source), so I went with the NPS tag.  If that's incorrect, it should be changed, but I went with my best guess.
 * The specific web page the picture comes from explicitly states that the documents about the Ste. Claire are public domain (which is why I added the note under permission).
 * I used a tag, because the picture is Public Domain and from the NPS. However, even if it WAS credited (as are the other pix I uploaded), I don't know that the picture taker was a NPS *employee*.  So is that tag useless? (Not a rhetorical question.)
 * Cropping is probably a good idea. I opted for the entire picture to keep it "original," but a crop job would look better.
 * This photo and the others I uploaded are on Commons.
 * As far as the validity of the "public domain" statement on specific NPS pages/documents, I'm inclined to trust those claims *unless* there's some *specific* reason to believe they're wrong. I can understand not trusting a blanket PD statement that applies to hundreds of thousands of documents and images when a certian instance seems incorrect; however, when a specific licensing statement covers a specific document, that seems pretty airtight to me.  Otherwise, the standard would be to independantly re-confirm the licensing of everything the Federal government produces, which seems pretty onerous. Andrew Jameson (talk) 00:18, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was going to be cheesed off about a deletion review; I was trying to explain my logic rather than argue my position (although I suppose there's not much difference, really). In any case, please go ahead, with my blessing.  I don't particularly mind having something deleted, as long as there's a reasonable argument to do so, and I'd rather understand the limitations of image licensing than have something incorrectly stay around with my name on it. Andrew Jameson (talk) 11:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Balch Creek
Thanks again for your help at peer review with Balch Creek, which made FA today. Your suggestion about the incomplete map proved especially helpful. If ever I can return the favor, please ask. Finetooth (talk) 02:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

dropped you an email...
just in case you look here more often :) dm (talk) 01:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Downtown Roanoke
Thanks for creating those stubs. I am slowly getting all of the Roanoke neighborhood articles completed, and then will focus NHRP articles for the area, and expand the new ones too. Cheers! Patriarca12 (talk) 02:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Nevins
I've got both Harriet Nevins and David Nevins, Jr. on the DYK candidate's discussion page. I'll expand the Nevins Memorial Library page into a full article later -- I've found some very cool info -- but I don't want to choke DYK with Nevins stuff and make other editors sick of it. So I suggest don't lengthen library article so the 5x expansion won't be difficult when it's time. I'll make sure you get DYK credit. Thanks. - House of Scandal (talk) 01:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

GeoGroupTemplate
Replying to:
 * "There's a known bug with "Map of all coordinates" usage on Categories. It does NOT work as intended; it displays only coordinates that were in some download a couple years ago now. This was discussed at WikiProject Photography a month or two ago, where it comes up because it seems like it would be helpful in ReqPhoto categories. It's not going to be fixed any time soon, either. So all these GeoGroupTemplates applied to Category pages should be deleted, IMHO. The Map of all Coordinates does work on new articles such as List of RHPs in Chicago which contain numerous coordinates in the article itself. doncram (talk) 21:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)"

Actually it you test GeoGroupTemplate "Map of all coordinates" on a category, while the change is apparently not immediate (minutes), updates (in my recent experience/experiments) can be see within an hour or two.

This was a relatively "recent" change (from kmlexport-old to kmlexport),
 * See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates:

LeheckaG (talk) 08:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "I thought how it would be much more rewarding to work through a category if you could see the results of your work growing somewhere. The "map of all coordinates" links on category pages work through dumps, so having to wait months for the visualization doesn't make it a very good incentive. So I modified the kmlexport tool a bit to show live data instead. The old one is still available as kmlexport-old for comparison. Please test with some categories and report any problems here. --Para (talk) 20:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)"


 * I tried to click on "map of all coordinates" in Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Minnesota and got none. Is there an error on that page?--Appraiser (talk) 13:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Interesting" case but not "unexpected" (at least to me). On WP:GEO I had previously asked the GeoGroupTemplate contributor(s) whether it could be updated so that it could accept a parameter to be pointed somewhere else, i.e. be on one page but then actually look at a different article or category to display the latter's results, but I did not have a good example (I only realized that it would probably be something which people asked for).  You provided the good example, albeit actually being the more typical case across namespaces: (between Talk and normal).  The "requested photographs" categories are populated from templates being placed on an article's Talk page (which usually does not contain coordinates), so when GeoGroupTemplate invokes Para's KML export:

it is looking at the pages within the Category for coordinates - but in the cited ReqPhoto case, they are all articles' Talk/discussion pages (which usually do not contain coordinates) and not the article pages. So what would be needed "instead" would be a flag/parameter to GeoGroupTemplate for it to pass on as part of the URL to kmlexport, the parameter (in addition to article=) would tell kmlexport to read the Category: to extract the article names, but then to strip off or switch which namespace it actually extracts the pages and coordinates from, i.e. stripping off "Talk:" before retrieving the page(s) to read the coordinates from. Rather than just "stripping" Talk:, my proposal would be that the parameter be "namespace=" and the old namespace (Talk:) be replaced with the new namespace= parameter, that way it would be a more general mechanism which could potentially be used for other things?
 * http://toolserver.org/~para/cgi-bin/kmlexport?article=Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_in_Minnesota


 * To better clarify and reword my previous request (to Para) would be a parameter to GeoGroupTemplate allowing article= to be specified in place of FULLPAGENAMEE which would be the default. When article= is specified the Infobox should clearly say "Map of all coordinates for {article}" so that one knows before clicking that it will point to another page instead of the default.  Likewise for when a namespace= parameter is supplied, perhaps "Map of all ... in {namespace}:", "Map of all coordinates for {article} in {namespace}:" when both are specified ?


 * In response, I posted Template talk:GeoGroupTemplate and will also post a link on WP:GEO.

LeheckaG (talk) 14:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Para just fixed GeoGroupTemplate (and KML export) per the apparent original Category: request which was to permit to map a category like requested photo (as opposed to my request to permit optional article= and namespace= parameters which are more flexible). It took several refreshes and retries, but mapping the Category above now works.


 * "Stevens Square, Minneapolis" (Minnesota) plots "off the map" at Latitude 0, Longitude 0 - so I looked up the appropriate coordinates on USGS GNIS and I am in the process of updating the article - it might take an hour or two for the update to flow through to the map.


 * The current GeoGroupTemplate functionality (always stripping off the Talk: instead of allowing a namespace= to be supplied) is a "paint yourself into a corner short-term solution", so I am going to continue to gently push for article= and namespace= but I am not going to hold my breath. LeheckaG (talk) 19:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I tried your (3) Lists - Map of all ...:
 * I received a "Server Error" on Wisconsin, I did a refresh and Adams through Wood county did appear. How many and which pushpins depend on pan and zoom, I am not sure what the upper practical or technical limits are.  Sometimes "Map of all ..." takes a few refreshes or retries to work.
 * Niagara County, NY have a couple/few "off the map" coordinates ... I am working on them.
 * likewise with Erie County, NY ...
 * I will post an update later after I have them corrected. LeheckaG (talk) 19:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Infobox nrhp2
A month and a half ago (late June), you asked about some template changes. Since then, my templating skills have improved.

Yesterday evening / this morning, I got "frustrated" by this chain of Wiki ...:
 * SEwilco ? deleted someone's anonymous posting and editsemiprotected template on Template talk:GeoTemplate
 * I replied to the deleted post at same, anonymous poster found "bad" coordinates but did not indicate which article
 * a little "detective" work: open coordinates (Google Map link), and turned on "Wikipedia" marker flags:
 * Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum
 * Richard Nixon Birthplace
 * on the latter, someone apparently typo'ed Longitude ... 46' instead of 49' about 3 mi apart
 * I updated the (2) articles, and got "frustrated" with Infobox nrhp2 handling of coordinates, so: ...

I updated Infobox nrhp2 and Infobox nrhp2/doc, specifically updated /doc's "ALL" parameters section to agree with nrhp2 source code (I hate undocumented parameters) including attempting to document parameter defaults & other template relationships (i.e. what Coord gets called with, should do the same for Location map ...)

I added (2) parameters:
 * coord_parameters (which defaults to region:US_type:landmark)
 * coord_display (which defaults to inline)

I unsuccessfully tried to add:
 * coord_format (in context, apparently format= triggers some "magic word" behavior?)

An "improvement" would be to: LeheckaG (talk) 12:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * figure out the format= issue
 * only conditionally include display= since =inline is coord's default
 * same for format=, only conditionally include when coord_format= defined and non-empty

pre-1986 NRIS coordinates might be NAD27 instead of WGS84/NAD83
See North American Datum conversion

When you are relatively sure NRIS has pre-1986 NAD27 coordinates (like from an old printed topographic map), they can be converted via the official federal government NADCON tool: NADCON computations - on-line version to WGS84/NAD83 (a.k.a. Google / GPS) coordinates. LeheckaG (talk) 16:48, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

With regard to deleting "bad" coordinates rather than "correcting" them, I can see someone then re-adding bad ones back again from NRIS?

So some type of common easily-understood standard procedure is needed to deal with the NRIS coordinates:

At a minimum, bad coordinates should be left "as-is" and flagged or tagged when obviously bad,

Preferably corrected, with a clear indication of what they were.

For me, I usually at least put a hidden Wiki comment to indicate "was ...". LeheckaG (talk) 17:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)