User talk:Doncram/Archive 9

Hawley-Green Street Historic District
I just added the nrhp nom as a reference, and it's not showing right. Can you see what I did wrong? Lvklock (talk) 18:19, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm going on a Home and Garden tour of this district Saturday. [] Should be able to get some good pics. Lvklock (talk) 15:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did get some good pics. E-mailing you. Lvklock (talk) 22:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Rapp Road Community Historic District

 * The DYK phrase, up now, is Did you know


 * ... that during the First Great Migration, the majority of Shubuta, Mississippi, moved to Albany, New York, with some recreating a religious rural community in Rapp Road Community Historic District?


 * Congrats! It couldnt have happened without you! Oh, and my email is (was here) if you need to email me anything. Just let me know at my talk page if you email me something so I know to check for it because I dont ever check that email, which is why I dont mind putting it out there on here.Camelbinky (talk) 16:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * okay, i did just email u a printed-to-PDF copy of the DYK as it appeared on the main page. So now i also have ur email in my records. doncram (talk) 18:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Would like to invite you to join WikiProject Common Sense!Camelbinky (talk) 00:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, is this some kind of joke? My first reaction is that you are somewhat sarcastically commenting on something non-common-sensical thing i must have done. :(  Sorry, i hope it wasn't too bad what i did. :) doncram (talk) 00:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh no! I really did think you might be interested in joining that wikiproject, its brand new and just spreading the word, I put the same message on Wadester's page too, I hope he didnt think I meant that to him too! As far as I know you have been using common sense and I thought you might be interested in promoting the use of common sense in discussions. But its not like you and I have ever been in a conversation with someone who didnt want to listen to common sense, right? :-) Camelbinky (talk) 01:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and you might be interested in contacting User:Yx7791, brand new editor I believe, has been making alot of good articles lately on malls and such in the Capital District and his/her user page says they are interested mostly on history. They may be interested in joining our collaboration on NRHP articles in the area. With three people we might even want to start an official task force to try and draw in more people and have a place to discuss articles and what to work on next.Camelbinky (talk) 01:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Disambiguation issue on Missouri Pacific Railroad Depot
You're probably right, but I felt I had to use that redirect for something. In the meantime, I've got a better idea; The Amtrak-specific name should be taken off the list. I'll show you in a few minutes. DanTD (talk) 13:26, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Museum of Ceramics
That's much better! There are a whole lot more in Category:Decorative arts museums. Let me know when you are done, & I will add some. I think myself it is better treated as a listy article than a disam page, but whatever. Cheers. Johnbod (talk) 21:30, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

NRHP in New York's Capital District Taskforce
I've been reading up on how to create and do a taskforce. Per what it says on a taskforce that has two "parent" wikiprojects- A task force is generally set up on a subpage of the parent project page. In cases where the task force is a child of two projects (in other words, where its scope is the intersection of that of its two parents), the subpage can be arbitrarily placed under either of the projects, and a redirect can be created from the equivalent subpage in the other; see, for example, the Korean military history task force, run jointly by the Military history and Korea WikiProjects.
 * Do you have a preference of making it a taskforce of the NRHP wikiproject? I dont know if that wikiproject frowns on taskforces of such specific sub-state regions or of such small membership. I think we could probably have three or four members. If that wikiproject is already set up to support taskforces I would prefer to have it from that wikiproject.Camelbinky (talk) 21:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The rule of thumb for creating new wikiprojects is to have 5 signed-up, expected-to-be-active members, plus having more potential. I personally think Task forces should be at least that big, or it is not worth undertaking the extra overhead involved and the risk of creating stuff that just saps energy.  It is perhaps embarrasing and otherwise not good to put out structure that doesn't show any activity, when new users come by thinking they might get involved, in my view.  So, I don't think it is helpful to create any Task Force even smaller than wp:capdis, which was too small to justify being a Wikiproject to start with in my opinion.  Also, another reason to split out a Task Force would be if you felt discussion in a specialized area needed to be constrained and channeled off somewhere else, because it was being shared in a too-broad forum where many people were not interested.  There is not too much discussion at wt:capdis however and no one has said "enough already with the NRHP stuff". doncram (talk) 03:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I see your point. I'll cross my fingers and hope we get more people involved in the NRHP articles though, I think they are important for understanding and expanding the knowledge of the communities involved. I do have a question for you about the hamlets in Albany County you requested to be made because they have a NRHP site in them. For Alcove, New York I cant really find enough information to make the article notable or even long enough other than info that would already go on a page for the NRHP site itself. In those cases that there is only one NRHP site in a community would you rather the name of the community become a redirect to that one NRHP site or that the community still get a page or that the page just isnt made in the first place? What about two or more NRHP sites in a community but the page will still be nothing more than talking about the NRHP sites?Camelbinky (talk) 05:59, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd rather have the place article started, and would not want any place to redirect to an NRHP article. A geo-stub article can be very minimal.  To demonstrate, i just did start the Alcove, New York article.  I put in very little other than mentioning it is the location of two NRHP-listed places (neither of which has an article yet).  I have started numerous geo-stubs like that.  I think that much, plus the "NewYork-geo-stub" tag and a WikiProject tag on the Talk page, is actually enough for the article to be started and to survive without being deleted.  It would be stronger if the NRHP articles were started, too.  Of course, you are welcome to add more information. doncram (talk) 07:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I can do my best to expand it, its on the side of a resevoir, so maybe adding some info on when the resevoir was created and its impact on the community might be out there somewhere, I'll continue to look and now I know what to do about alot of these little hamlets.Camelbinky (talk) 20:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Further discussion about the New York State Department of Education Building moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Capital District/sandbox New York State Department of Education Building doncram (talk) 05:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Untabulated state count estimates
Hi don ... Where did you get the estimated counts for the untabulated states that you added to the table in United States National Register of Historic Places listings‎? About 6 weeks ago, I got counts for each state using the NPS Focus search. Some of the numbers I got are quite different than the numbers you put in the table. Here's what I've got for the states you entered:


 * Georgia 1,974 (vs. doncram estimated 1800, revise to 2000)
 * Arkansas 2,398 (vs. doncram guessed 1500, revise now to 2500)
 * Missouri 1,940 (vs. doncram guessed 1500, revise now to 2000)
 * Oklahoma 1,125 (vs. doncram guessed 1000, keep at 1000)
 * South Carolina 1,414 (vs. doncram guessed 2000, revise to 1500)
 * South Dakota 1,273 (vs. doncram guessed 500, revise to 1500)
 * Tennessee 1,952 (vs. doncram guessed 1,500, revise to 2000)
 * Puerto Rico 281 (vs. doncram guessed 100, revise to 300)

Other territories:  (vs. doncram guessed 100, revise to 200)
 * Guam 115
 * Virgin Islands 88
 * Northern Mariana Islands 36
 * American Samoa 21
 * Palau 6
 * Marshall Islands 4
 * U.S. Minor Islands 2

(Don's total for those was 10,000, is now revised to 13,000)

Indiana's not in the current table. The count I have is 1,652.

(New 1500 for Indiana, so total 14,500)

There are problems with the NPS Focus search. For example, when you enter Washington in the geographic location state search, it returns both Washington, DC and Washington state listings. Worse yet, I think I got some Arkansas listings when I entered Kansas. I think the counts I have also count boundary increases as separate listings. But the numbers I got for most states have been in the neighborhood.

--sanfranman59 (talk) 00:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Interesting you found a way to get rough estimates, apparently going to this NPS focus search screen and trying one state at a time. I would have expected that to only tell you how many sites in a state have documents scanned and available, which would perhaps return a much lower number, and in fact I didn't know you could get any total at all there.  (I thought all you could do was go to search NRIS here for one state at a time, and then page through the 10 per page results to the end, perhaps 200 clicks to count through a state having 2000 NRHP listings.)  Whatever the NPS focus total really is reporting, i see that it is not too far off for some states where we have good counts.  Nice job figuring that out!


 * My Georgia estimate of 1800 was based on my having a spreadsheet sum of county tallies that is near that, with rough projection for 3 unfinished big counties. Upon further review now, i project the final total will be 1,991 or within a few of that, not too far from the 1,974 estimate you get from NPS focus.
 * The others were rough guesses based on my sense of how big the state is, and chosen to total to 10,000. To compare them, i state my guesses in italics above.  And given your info, i suggest revising to round numbers, also now stated above.  Those rounded new estimates total to 13,000 without Indiana (which I had simply missed) and to 14,500 with Indiana.  I think these estimates are helpful now for us and others planning our work, and they're even informative or at least not harmful to wikipedia readers (although I don't want to explain the guesses in detail to anyone).  They're temporary.  Thanks for sharing! doncram (talk) 02:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Hawaii split
Thanks for beginning to split Hawaii! Could you reply to my talk page question? Nyttend (talk) 04:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Issues that came to my notice while working on the List of RHPs in Syracuse
Syracuse Savings Bank has a red link rfeference. I think maybe it was to a newspaper article that isn't available any more. Would you take a look and see what you think?

Thornden Park doesn't have a nomination form online at the NYS site. The infobox says it's part of the Historic Designed Landscapes of Syracuse MPS. Are the MPS docs available somewhere?

Many of the Ward house articles are called ??? House, while the nomination documents call them ??? Residence. Is this a problem?

Lvklock (talk) 04:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * About the Syracuse Savings Bank reference, the original editor (me) didn't know how to form a proper footnote for a newspaper article (i think best done using "cite news") back in 2007. No URL present in original edit, it appears to be based on then having a hard copy of the newspaper. Reference fixed.
 * Thanks for fixing it. I honestly didn't even realize it was your ref. :) Lvklock (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The MPS should be available online by searching at http://www.nr.nps.gov/nrcover.htm. But i get a server error when i try running a search there.  Best to email a request to the National Register Reference team (nr_reference (at) nps.gov) and they would email a direct link to the document (which is probably on-line, fine, i think it is the search function at the server which is failing) and/or they would email the free document.  Good to show public demand for the output of the server, so they have some more incentive to fix it. doncram (talk) 07:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It didn't work for me, either. I sent an e-mail today. Lvklock (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I usually use Firefox, and forgot to try MSIE before. The nrcover search screen page states "Requires Explorer 5.x or Netscape 6.x and Adobe Acrobat".  Currently i have MSIE version 7, which does not work when i check just now.  It's possible the site works with antiquated browsers that few people have.... doncram (talk) 01:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * They e-mailed me the link to the MPS already...all 193 pages of it. Lvklock (talk) 19:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * About House vs. Residence, yes, I have noticed that too. The House version seems to be what was data-entered into NRIS when the places were listed on the National Register, but that should be with the NRHP application in hand.  It seems that the data entry staff exercised independent judgement to rename them, which sort of seems questionable.  But, since also the New York State document system uses the NRIS-data entered names, and because NRHP.COM and other NRIS mirror sites copy the same names, it seems those names now are in fact common names for the places, and can't be dropped entirely, and should show as the National Register names in the Syracuse list-article.  But, if you want to move any individual articles to the Residence type name, and show the House name as a bolded alternative name, that would be fine and no problem.
 * I added the ??? Residence as an alternate name in each article. I like House better.  I'm fine with not changing the article names. Lvklock (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for asking these several clear questions, I kinda like getting good marching orders like these. :) doncram (talk) 07:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Argh! I had all the pictures, and articles for each and they went and added another! My work is never done....sigh. Lvklock (talk) 00:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So, the only way to get the nomination form for the new one at this point is to request it from nps, right? Lvklock (talk) 12:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Algoma, Oregon
The phrase showing is: Did you know... Hmm, not sure i deserve this really, i just helped reword article a very little. :) doncram (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ... that the tugboat that towed log rafts across Upper Klamath Lake to the Algoma lumber mill in Algoma, Oregon, is now on display in the Collier Memorial State Park logging museum?

Oyster Bay History Walk
Looks like we have another challenge on the Oyster Bay History Walk. I responded to Deb on her talk page asking what specifically it was that made her believe this was written like an advertisement. We'll have to wait and see I guess. Any input/help you can provide is much appreciated.

This article is written like an advertisement. Please help rewrite this article from a neutral point of view. For blatant advertising that would require a fundamental rewrite to become encyclopedic, use to mark for speedy deletion. (May 2009)


 * Made the edits you suggested and a few others. If it's ok, let's remove the tag.

Inoysterbay (talk) 22:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXVIII (April 2009)
The April 2009 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

PuertoRico-NRHP-stub
Hi Doncram - it's fairly non-stressful :) There probably should be a PuertoRico-NRHP-stub- I'll propose it at WP:WSS/P. Given that it follows the style of other similar stubs, it should be pretty much speediable, so if you can hold of for, say, 24 hours on doing them, then you'll have the template you need. It'll be upmerged for now rather than having its own category, but if there prove to be 60 or more existing stubs then it should quickly get its own category. FWIW, ideally if there isn't a specific NRHP-stub you'd use both the generic NRHP-stub and whatever geo-stub is most applicable e.g., PuertoRico-geo-stub). Problem is that a lot of historic places are buildings and structures, which should really get a struct-stub not a geo-stub -and as far as I know we haven't got a PuertoRico-struct-stub yet either. Grutness...wha?  23:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Done - happy stubbing! :) Grutness...wha?  01:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Disamb Churches: three discussions at once is bad
Hi Doncram,

I discovered that at this moment there are three' discussions on the Disambiguate Churches-topic: cfd, tfd, editprotect-request on dabcat. This is very bad, because now we could have three different conclusions (delete one and keep the other, e.g.). For this reason I put a Warning at the three talks. Also: a editprotect-request (i.e. change a protected template) is only allowed after a discussion, and only when it reached a consensus. To me the discussions are freezed, because it is very difficult to keep three related talks going, with ten users. I am thinking on how to continue constructively with it. -DePiep (talk) 08:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes i agree it is bad. I wanted to close the tfd as keep, then open a cfd, then do the dabcat request.  I would be fine with having the cfd and dabcat requests paused, pending a decision to close the tfd as "keep unless and until a dabcat change or other alternative is implemented". doncram (talk) 09:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Doncram, these discussions are closed now undecided. You might feel like I did attribute to this outcome. Please don't feel bad about it, there may be a good reason for it, plus a better solution later on. Surely if I am involved then, I will invite you to contribute. -DePiep (talk) 19:22, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. I thought you got a bit over-alarmed, but your contribution to the overall discussion is fine.  The main thing for me was stopping an outright deletion of the church-disambig template, as was proposed, because that would have lost the category attached to all 300+ articles.  If i open a new discussion i will invite you too.  Thanks! doncram (talk) 23:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

CHL template
Is template:infobox local1 able to do CHLs? I am looking for an infobox for Gable Mansion, an article I wrote a couple months ago... In my opinion infoboxes always make an article look better ;-) Killiondude (talk) 05:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just noticed you did it last night. Thanks, I appreciate it! I wasn't sure how to make it not say "LA Heritage List" or whatever it was intended for. Killiondude (talk) 00:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

University of Oklahoma GAR
As someone who is involved in all things historic, you should be aware of the following problematic NRHP article. It should be an easy save for anyone who wants to get involved. University of Oklahoma has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Kawaiahao Church and Mission Houses
I was just about to create an entry for this combo when I found your new entry with a redirect to Kawaiahao Church. I had orginally thought it better to split the two into separate entries, but now I think it would be best to make KC & MH as one entry, but with KC given its own separate entry, i.e., with (main|KC) under its subhead, but to add info about MH in the combined entry, with a "See also" link to Mission Houses Museum. Does that sound reasonable? I think it's a bit misleading to put everything under KC. Joel (talk) 22:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, sounds okay, as long as you now understand there's a reason to have a combo entry to describe the NRHP listing. I think you're asking for that combo to be a separate, new short article, rather than for both to be handled within the Kawaiahao Church article.  That's fine by me, go ahead.  (By the way, i did just set up a redirect earlier, but the Kawaiahao article already had the combo description, the NRHP infobox showing the combo, etc.) doncram (talk) 22:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay to repeat the same infobox on both the combo page and the KC page? Or keep the NRHP/NHL infobox at the combo page and leave it off the separate KC page? I've got enough prospective Commons photos for a small gallery on the MHs. I envision 3 primary headings on the combo page: KC (with short summary and pointer to separate main article), Lunalilo Mausoleum, MH. That's how the latest Honolulu AIA brochure breaks it down, based on Sandler, Mehta, and Haines (1993/2008). Joel (talk) 23:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nuts. It looks as if we need 3 or more NRHP infoboxes, for all the different architects, dates, styles, etc. Getting complicated. Joel (talk) 23:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But, only the combo is NRHP-listed (and also an NHL), right? I think the combo article should have the NRHP/NHL infobox, and the two separate articles should not, then.  The church can use the template:Infobox religious building, which is quite flexible, instead.  I haven't used that much, but have noticed User:Daniel Case using it for many New York State area churches and other places that are not NRHP-listed, and even some NRHP-listed ones.  Here's an example: Ohave Shalom Synagogue.  Would that same infobox apply for the Mission Houses, too?  Or use a more generic one, perhaps there is a template:infobox building? doncram (talk) 00:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, that sounds like a good way to go. The Mission Houses could probably use either a museum infobox or the Protestant Missions infobox I noticed on the entry for Gerrit P. Judd. Maybe I'll start futzing with it this weekend. BTW, I noticed the Honolulu Academy of Art uses a museum infobox and not an NRHP infobox. Still trying to figure out what to do about Linekona School, which is now part of the HAA but is separate on NRHP. Anyway, I appreciate the periodic guidance from you and Nyttend. This Sunday I'm doing the College Hills historic homes walking tour with Malama o Manoa. Should have a lot more photos and another brochure.

Lighthouse + NRHP infobox
I just added an NRHP infobox into the pre-existing Lighthouse infobox at Biloxi Light, and I was pretty pleased. The NRHP infobox also shows the MS Landmark designation. This is a pretty good example of what can be done with the nrhp code. Btw, I'll start working on the CP problem soon. I've been busy with school lately. I'm also thinking about trying to make a more inclusive infobox that would be helpful over at WP:HSITES... no promises yet, though. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 01:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

NRIS information issues
I have added the Tenney Castle Gatehouse to this list, please correct my entry for errors. thx EraserGirl (talk) 06:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Rachel Carson layout
Hello Doncram! I agree with you about the layout of the "See also" section; it should be moved up to its proper location. See: Layout for more details. I've been doing some work on Springdale, Pennsylvania. Your expertise there would be appreciated, if you would like to edit the article. There is currently very little material about Rachel Carson on that page. Nice work on these related articles. Thank you! ~ All is One ~ (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

summaries
I have started adding proper summaies to National Register of Historic Places listings in Methuen, Massachusetts can you peek at the page and tell me if i am on track. i hate going over the same ground twice. btw Nyttend is not as understanding regarding Bellevue as you. EraserGirl (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I took a look at a few of your summaries. They look good.  One of the things I look for is that the info included in the summary actually comes from the article (I have encountered summaries written before the article was begun, for example, that did not match).  Yours look very good on that account.  Beyond that, I think consistency is the key.  If you use complete sentences, use them in all the descriptions (I usually do fragments connected with ;, but either way is perfectly acceptable).  Always begin the description with a capital letter. Stuff like that.  I'd say you're on the right track. Lvklock (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The Manor (Los Angeles, California)
thanks for re-doing the manor for me (formerly at The Manor (Los Angeles)). I'll see if I can add something new to it. --cda (talk) 15:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a bit to The Manor article and have nominated it for DYK. Cbl62 (talk) 22:34, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Different style of disambiguation
What do you think of my change in this edit? This name for the house is confirmed by its HABS listing. Nyttend (talk) 19:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's fine to use the HABS name for the article (Simon E. Dow House in Dow City, Iowa) and then to show that in the disambiguation page. The rule on disambiguation pages is that they should show the actual article name with no pipelinking or redirects hiding what the article name is, and I would have no argument using that more specific name.  But I think you should first, or immediately, create a stub article and set up a redirect from the NRHP name for the site Dow House (Dow City, Iowa).  This would avoid future confusion, mostly for NRHP and/or disambiguation editors like me who may naturally find our way to create the NRHP article.  And also it could save confusion for wikipedia readers who may have seen Dow House mentioned at any one of the various NRIS mirrors.  And it would get the HABS link into the article, which is a good thing.  If you don't want to set it up, you can just notify me and I will be glad to do it.  Actually i'd set it up at the NRHP name and then move it to the HABS name.  I'll do that in this case, in a day or two, if you haven't.  Thanks for asking! doncram (talk) 20:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

ACL Depot lists
I've got my own dab page for Atlantic Coast Line Depot. You should merge yours with mine. DanTD (talk) 02:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, that looks like a list-article, it is not strictly a disambiguation page. Currently i think Atlantic Coast Line Railroad Depot should be kept as a separate disambiguation page.  Let's discuss at Talk:Atlantic Coast Line Depot. doncram (talk) 03:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Does this count as a duplicate?
The 1872 California-Nevada State Boundary Marker is listed in both the Washoe County, NV list and the Sierra County, CA list. I'm not sure it's represented in the US totals or not. Thanks. Einbierbitte (talk) 17:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, it looks like it is not double-counted, because the National Register of Historic Places listings in California specifically excludes it from its count. But there are about 10 such exclusions from counting in the CA list, all in footnotes, that probably should be reversed and covered as duplicates.  Our duplicates reporting approach is newer than what was implemented there probably. doncram (talk) 17:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Georgetown (Conn.)
Hi, I disagree with splitting this one out. Georgetown is a just a small cluster of houses at a point where three towns meet. The historic district is completely within the place known as Georgetown. You will only get overlapping descriptions of you split it. What is the reason for the split? --Polaron | Talk 19:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * i just finished explaining, at its Talk page. Geez, you are a bit possessive!  Can't you even wait for a note to the Talk page, as promised in an edit summary at the main page, already?  Anyhow, continue at Talk:Georgetown Historic District (Georgetown, Connecticut). doncram (talk) 20:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

July 4 deadline
Hi don ... Frankly, I don't really see the point in imposing deadlines out here. I do this for fun and have enough deadlines in my life already, so I'm just going to keep pecking away at my WP tasks as I have time. --sanfranman59 (talk) 22:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...well, I do it for fun, too, but the Fourth of July drive last year WAS fun. Certainly, no one would be compelled to participate, and there are no penalties for not meeting the deadline....it was just fun to have a bunch of people working towards a specific goal that was not quite so wide ranging as cover all the nrhp's. Lvklock (talk) 22:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Church disambig
Hey Doncram, I wanted to drop you a note to tell you that I appreciate the progress that's been made with church disambig. disambig has a "church" parameter now, which is definitely an improvement. The system probably should be reformed further, but I don't really have the time or the devotion to work on that myself, so I trust that you will do the best job you can. Thanks for your efforts. —Remember the dot (talk) 04:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Infobox for all Historic Sites
For the past few days I've been working on an infobox to be used at WP:HSITES that can cover pretty much all designations – NRHP included. The working code for this infobox can be found at User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox, but please don't edit it. If you have suggestions or questions, let me know.

I've included parameters for each designation such as the number (NRHP ref#, CHISL#, USMS#, etc.), designation date, delisting date, parent listing (for contributing properties.. but USMS designations also have parent listings sometimes), type (for World Heritage Sites, IUCN categories, Listed Buildings, etc.), official name (for NRHP, WHS, and other official titles), and criteria (mostly for WHS, but for any designation that requires a certain criteria).

The designations are handled in a new way, specifically templates like USMS designation (which has a bit of extra stuff on it that I was using before.. disregard the stuff after the noinclude tag) and NRHP designation. The template should be constructed with the abbreviation for the designation, so World Heritage Sites would be handled with WHS designation. Inside the templates, there are several identifiers. The "text" identifier tells the infobox what to write in the bar at the top. The "color" identifier tells the infobox the color of that bar. The "position" identifier tells the infobox where to display the designation number (like the "designated_other1_num_position" parameter in Infobox nrhp). These are the only three identifiers necessary for any designation template, so they're rather easy to create. NHL designation, CHISL designation, etc. will all be created for use by the template once it's up and running.

This is kind of a bare sketch of my ideas, but I was wondering your thoughts of how it's coming along. I included an example of the infobox in practice using an NRHP and a USMS designation (the only two I have created), and I think it looks pretty good. What do you think? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * P.S. – Have you thought about archiving some of this talk page? It's freakishly long haha.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Not to sound impatient or anything, but it's been 3 full days. I added a comment on WT:HSITES, and no one has responded there either haha. If no one says anything, I'm just gonna create the infobox and begin using it. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:43, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

featured properties
There, the list of featured properties is all stubbed out, for the moment. Thanks for adding that talk page. I was just getting back around to it. Lvklock (talk) 04:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for the barnstar! Lvklock (talk) 01:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Third Church of Christ, Scientist (Washington, D.C.)
Hi, thanks for the news update. I've been following this for quite a while. I had intended to start the article, but am glad someone else did it. I think the problem is that the building has been completely dysfunctional for its intended use as a church (as well as for any other proposed use} and its exterior is completely uninviting. For a modernistic CS church that does seem to work, see Seventeenth Church of Christ, Scientist (Chicago, Illinois). Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 00:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

NRIS info issues page reorganization
Hi don ... I see you reorganized the NRIS information issues page. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to enter geocode coordinates errors now. Should they go in section 2 ("Reports organized by state") or section 8 ("Coordinates issues")? --sanfranman59 (talk) 05:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply ... if you're not planning on reporting coordinates issues, I'll stop adding them to that page. I'll continue to make coordinates corrections in our tables since I think it's a great resource for anyone who wants to create a map directly from Wikipedia. Incidentally, in my experience, there are still quite a few errors in the Google Maps layers the NPS put out. Also, I don't think they include coordinates for historic districts (although I could be wrong about that). --sanfranman59 (talk) 06:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

List of New York State Historic Markers
Hi Don,

Thanks for your note. There was an already existing List of New York State Historic Markers page. Content was inconsistent with only selections from each county.

There is a precedent for state marker programs being posted to Wikipedia - see New Hampshire Historical Markers and List of historical highway markers in Hampshire County, West Virginia. For the later there is an archived discussion which encouraged to keep: Articles for deletion/List of Hampshire County Historical Highway Markers.

As you've noted it has taken a lot of work to get these articles to the point where the content is comprehensive and consistent with what the statewide program website includes.

I'd be happy to explore further with you the possibility of New York Museums giving copyright permission. In the interim though I'd encourage you to look to examples of existing lists and consider the potential of these existing pages to be developed further.

They provide a valuable index of historic sites, some that are listed, many others that are not. Each marker really has the potential to be developed into a full-fledged article.

Inoysterbay (talk) 18:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Doncram
Hi Doncram. I appreciate your suggestions and your help SO much! As you have probably noticed, I am not entirely familiar with all of the aspects of Wikipedia still. I am still learning how to fully develop an article and all that it entails. I will take all of your advice and I will implement it into my work from now on. Additionally, if you can continue to help me develop Garden City High School, I would greatly appreciate as I need all the help I can get. Again, thank you so much. I apologize for not responding earlier. :) JHawk88 (talk)  20:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

What is going on?
I've noticed how your comments have become increasingly personal. This has led me to believe you have some sort of grudge against me. I hope you realize when you raise a principled objection to my contributions on one article, then at another article say you think that article and related articles should be deleted because you are "burnt out" or because you are frustrated or upset about something else, that undermines the legitimate arguments you make. Having said that, I've reached out to the copyright holder for the Townsend Cemetery plaque (which I do not dispute needs permission). I have also reached out to New York State Museums asking for their determination whether marker text is in the public domain or needs permission. In the case of the later I have offerred to help them provide that permission. As you are surely well aware, it takes time for organizations as large as a state to move. So what I'd appreciate in the interim is if you take a slightly less critical tone and give these processes a chance to work themselves out. It would be a shame if we squandered the good will that has been developed between us, and the potential this has for enhancing coverage of historic sites now and into the future. I am writing this note to inform you that I, in return, will voluntarily put on hold making any further edits within Wikipedia. This also means you won't hear from my for several days or possibly weeks, but hopefully this distance helps to work these issues out. Thanks. Inoysterbay (talk) 14:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Whitelisted
Hey, i find out that i am on the whitelist. Are u? Check for your name at: User:JVbot/patrol whitelist. That means anything i want to write in wikipedia is A-Okay, apparently. :) doncram (talk) 17:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

WHS tables
Hey, it's nice to have some help with those tables. Thanks. Lvklock (talk) 00:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI, I split WikiProject World Heritage Sites/Tables of WHS Sites EUR region off from WikiProject World Heritage Sites/Tables of WHS Sites because it was taking too long to load all in one. Lvklock (talk) 23:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)‎ ‎
 * BTW, the APA region is all linked to the articles that have the infoboxes in them. All it needs is coordinates (that's your part). Lvklock (talk) 01:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Copyvio tagging
Would you please take a look at Talk:List of New York State Historic Markers in Cortland County, New York. Truthanado (talk) 00:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Citation of nomination forms
For the first time, I just recently took advantage of nomination forms that I requested from the NPS. Could you provide me an example of how to cite these? Nyttend (talk) 02:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I've previously written out examples for what I do at wp:NRHPmos. Please do ask further questions.  I don't recall how much i emphasized it there, but I do credit the "preparer" of the form and any other editors listed in the preparation section, section 11, as authors.  And the date of preparation as the date of the document, rather than using dates of signatures of high officials which may appear earlier. doncram (talk) 02:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I knew I'd seen something like this written out before, but the only place I could imagine to find them was at the main WP:NRHP page, so I was lost when I realised that they weren't there.  Nyttend (talk) 03:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank You
Hey, your request is unconventional but refreshing. Sure! :) Thanks, back. doncram (talk) 05:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

DE Wikipedia answer
I answered your question. --Matthiasb (talk) 09:35, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Grand Canyon Lodge
I like your "final" photo placement ;-]

Nice photo too, courtesy of a pleasant young woman from Las Vegas, who graciously relicensed it as CC at my request.

Now I'm working on another guy at Flickr who has a whole bunch of nice NRHP pix. One of the main photogs in the NRHP Pool there.

It really does help the articles to get good photos.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman (talk) 23:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

NRHP project housecleaning
I'm going thru the project sub-pages (there's over 100!) and trying to prune some. Are you finished with the old Kings County, New York coordinates. If so, could you blank the page and put in a delete request. It'll happen sooner if the author does it. :) --Ebyabe (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe clean out some of the 2008 NHL sandboxes, too. I can move some to article space, if it'll help. --Ebyabe (talk) 21:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Btw, whilst I'm thinking about it, is there a page recording progress of table-izing the regular NRHPs? I don't want to create one if such already exists. --Ebyabe (talk) 21:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Will visit and request deletion for that Kings county one, it must no longer be helpful.

I've been wondering where some of those NHL sandbox articles were. I had participated in setting them up, but the NHL designations then didn't happen forever, and I don't remember what but other stuff was going on when the designations finally came out, and several of them never got issued to mainspace. Thanks for pointing out that index to them. I'd still like to issue them in good shape, they need some fixinng up, one by one and nom them up for DYK. If you want to take over one or more and do that, please go ahead, or otherwise I will chip away and address them all eventually. Thanks!

Also, the NRHP table-izing has been tracked in the main List of RHPs article. The table of state-by-state tallies shows the 48 or so states and territories done so far, and there is also now a section covering the not-finished ones. I just moved Puerto Rico from the not-done to the done section; that's how it has been working. I don't know if creating a separate tracking page would help get anyone else involved constructively, but if you think so, go for it. doncram (talk) 23:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Unimportant userbox question
Hi, I don't want to wast your time but would it be possible to change the fluorescent green background of the WP:HSITES userbox to white? Currently the green and blue clash and I think it would be easier to read the text on a white background (also I think it would look a bit better). Nev1 (talk) 18:21, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it would be good to change the colors, can you just be bold, and go ahead and do it? I had just copied some other garish userbox, have no commitment to the colors there. doncram (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Done, I think it looks better now. Nev1 (talk) 19:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Oyster Bay History Walk & the IP
Hi, That IP has gone through just about everything and removed the contents from the audio. I'm suspicious that the IP is a sock given their knowledge of Wikipedia referencing. Yet, the only edits are to the History Walk articles and their Talk pages. Fortunately, we'll still be able to access the content through the page histories, but there will be a danger of the shorter ones being nominated for AfD again before we've got to the re-write. Could you please keep an eye on things so that between us we rescue any info we need before it goes west? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hiya Doncram!
 * I noticed that you recently restored a few deletions I made in the notable alumni section. Two of those alumni have been fact tagged since 2007.  Unless they get properly cited, they really need to go per the verifiability policy.  They could have been deleted two years ago without the tags, but I think 2 years is ample time for the editor who added them to find reliable sources, should they exist.
 * There is a third alum who was red linked, and did not assert anything that approached meeting wikipedia's policy on notability. Per WP:WPSCHOOLS/AL and WP:WPSCHOOLS/AG, alumni should only be included if they have a wikipedia article, or are eligible for one under the notability policy.  I have restored these deletions per policy.  I'd be happy to discuss this further, should you feel that I have made a mistake.  Best of luck in your future editing! LonelyBeacon (talk) 17:02, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Nine Mile Creek Aqueduct
I just added some pics of the progress on the aqueduct restoration. Thought you might be interested. Lvklock (talk) 23:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

PR reconciliation
I e-mailed you my take on this. Lvklock (talk) 05:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Helpful? Lvklock (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, I know you were already there, but I finally got my head around the last phase of this reconciliation. I'm e-mailing how I did it, for your amusement. Lvklock (talk) 03:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: Puerto Rico NRHPs
I see that the list is now very organized, maybe now we can,  get more people interested in this area. I been searching and uploading images so that every municipio article has at least one and now I'm also in the lookout for images and info for these historic places. I just have a two observations:
 * Zona Historica de San Juan the historic district or zone is known as Old San Juan.
 * Santuario de la Monserate de Hormigueros and Casa de Peregrinos - The answer to your question is yes, this is the same as the Basilica Menor de la Virgen de Monserrate. The church status was "updated" by the Pope from "santuario" sanctuary to "basilica menor" in the 1990's. The second part "Casa de Peregrinos" translated to  "pilgrims house" was a guest house near the church and now is used as  residence for the clergy. The first Puerto Rican bishop died in that house (don't quote me yet, I need to search for references). I would try to add material about the home to the main article.
 * Thank you for your hard work, also known as gracias. -- J mundo 04:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's cool when it all comes together, and we can answer each others questions! Lvklock (talk) 17:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Apparently Jmundo responded to my question as an edit label (and perhaps also a Talk page question?) at Santuario de la Monserate de Hormigueros and Casa de Peregrinos. Jmundo has answered, and implemented the solution by merging/redirecting articles.  Very glad you are taking the articles forward.  Hopefully others will be interested now in contributing pictures, etc., now that the list-tables are set up. doncram (talk) 22:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Reasons for special attention?
Hi Don. I suppose I should be flattered that you are taking such a close interest in my recent contributions to Wikipedia, but I am curious as to why you have singled me out for special attention? Best wishes NBeale (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * responded at User talk:NBeale. doncram (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

NRHP disambigs
In National Register of Historic Places listings in Le Flore County, Oklahoma, these may need disambiguation?


 * Summerfield School ✅
 * Williams School ✅

They don't link to anything else, but the individual entries on other pages might have been disambiguated already. The names look common enough. But don't create 'em if not needed. --Ebyabe (talk) 01:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

How about this one on the National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas County, Oklahoma?


 * Franklin Hall ✅ (except, no Missisisppi landmark included yet)

There appears to be a Mississippi landmark of the same name, at least. --Ebyabe (talk) 02:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Bowers School ✅, Bowers School (Wilburton, Oklahoma) --Ebyabe (talk) 23:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

How about Frisco Station ✅ vs Frisco Station (Idabel, Oklahoma) ✅--Ebyabe (talk) 00:56, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Tabor House ✅ and Tabor House (Checotah, Oklahoma) --Ebyabe (talk) 01:10, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Oklahoma's done! OK, mostly done, still some minor tweaking needed. Anyway, this should be the last for disambs for them:


 * Central National Bank (Alva, Oklahoma)
 * Central National Bank Building (Peoria)
 * Central National Bank now done. Central National Bank Building was already set up. ✅ -- doncram (talk) 00:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Citizens Bank Building
 * Citizens Bank Building (Stillwater, Oklahoma)
 * I think ✅ as nothing to do, Citizens Bank Building already set up. doncram (talk) 00:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Civic Center
 * Civic Center (Bartlesville, Oklahoma)
 * ✅ Set up Civic Center (disambiguation), now linked from "Civic center" article. doncram (talk) 00:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Corliss Steam Engine


 * La Quinta
 * La Quinta (Bartlesville, Oklahoma)
 * LaQuinta


 * Pleasant Valley School ✅
 * Pleasant Valley School (Bellvue, Colorado)
 * Pleasant Valley School (Stillwater, Oklahoma)


 * Rosenwald Hall
 * Rosenwald Hall (Lima, Oklahoma)


 * Walker Building ✅
 * Walker Building (Stillwater, Oklahoma)


 * Aldridge Hotel
 * Hotel Aldridge
 * Aldridge Hotel disambig set up to handle both. doncram (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

--Ebyabe (talk) 17:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, one more: Initial Point and Initial point. Here's one reference to the one in Oklahoma, and why it's important. Interesting, actually. --Ebyabe (talk) 20:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

New state: Hot Springs Historic District and Hot Springs Historic District (Hot Springs, South Dakota) --Ebyabe (talk) 04:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

South Dakota's done. Here's the disambigs:


 * Langdon School and Langdon School (Nisland, South Dakota)


 * Whittier School and Whittier School (Mitchell, South Dakota)


 * First State Bank Building, in Revillo, South Dakota and First State Bank (Nebraska)


 * Lewis Bridge and Lewis Bridge (Wewela, South Dakota) --Ebyabe (talk) 01:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

NRIS info issues
Do you know if the corrections from WP:NRIS issues have been implemented in the latest database dump? Nyttend (talk) 01:46, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm under the impression (although I've not heard this directly) that there's a newer database dump than the one from April 2008, possibly made available this spring. Can you confirm or deny this?  You answered my first question fully; thanks!  Nyttend (talk) 01:59, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I would ask Elkman, but you're online at the moment and I don't know about him...do you know if he's integrated the new database version yet?  Nyttend (talk) 02:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks much! Nyttend (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

AR lists
I see that you noticed I finished laying in the AR lists. I have a question about what to do next. Lvklock (talk) 02:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, heck. I didn't even realize I was.  DUH!  I don't need to go back and unsplit them, do I ? Lvklock (talk) 03:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Benton County has two listings in "Logan Community". I think it should just be Logan.  The only hits I see on a search for Logan Community are Archiplanet, and the Wikipedia List of places in Arkansas: L has a Logan, but not a Logan Community.  Is that enough info to change it to Logan and put it on the NRIS issues list, do you think? Lvklock (talk) 02:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at Monte Ne. I don't think there's a separate town of Monte Ne.  Would you still start a geostub, or link to this article from the town column? Lvklock (talk) 02:39, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Norwood Community, same issue as Logan Community, above. Lvklock (talk) 02:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Bentonville High School...It doesn't look old enough to be on the NRHP. If not, it'll need disambiguation.  I'm not sure how to find out. Lvklock (talk) 04:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, right to work I see. Thanks. :) Lvklock (talk) 16:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey thanks for developing the AR lists and raising these issues. Sure i think linking the Monte Ne and Logan community ones that way sounds most appropriate given what you've found.  Maybe coining a term "Logan Community" is in effect an NRIS error, and it definitely could usefully be noted at wp:NRIS info issues to be put to the NPS and their AR state counterparts to address.  About Bentonville HS, i have little idea if the link is right or wrong.  One way it could be raised would be by adding the NRHP infobox to the existing Bentonville High School article and opening some discussion at its talk page, acknowledging possibility there should be a separate article about an "Old Bentonville High School" if the NRHP one is different. doncram (talk) 19:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Monte Ne was an either or question. I'm not sure which option you're agreeing with; "start a geostub, or link to this article from the town column"?  I'll try to get to the rest tonight. Lvklock (talk) 19:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/ProgressNRHPlistsByState
Hey, I'm working on this progress list. I modeled it after one you made that we used last year when working on NHL lists. Would you leave the big cities (ie Boston) in the list? Boston is included in the MA list, so i kinda want to take it out. On the other hand, then I'll have to renumber the rest. What do you think? Lvklock (talk) 04:21, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I knew it needed a column to make clear what still needed to be done. Thanks for adding it.  I was just doin the first two columns, and then woulda gotten there. :) Lvklock (talk) 05:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I took a look a little while ago, decided to go for a bike ride, came back and you've done most of what I was gonna do tonight! :)  Thanks.  Lemme know if you get tired of it, and I'll do some more.  Don't wanna edit conflict.  I'll go do something in AR.  Lvklock (talk) 00:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The backwards is eht, not eth. :) Lvklock (talk) 22:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: sub rosa
I liked to see all the lists fully tableized, but I have neglected to finish sorting out the listings in Philadelphia by geography. I did just finished the one for the Marshall Islands and should be able to some of the other non-states (Guam and Micronesia for sure). I was thinking of lumping Wake Island and Midway Atoll into a United States Minor Outlying Islands list, if that would work. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 00:33, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The status of the Minor Outlying Islands is strange (they sorta took anything that wasn't a territory or a state and through them together into a category). Hopefully everything will be tableized by July 4th, but, if not, no one will ever know (it's a secret). --​​??? ? •? 01:46, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The NPS produces a layer for use in Google Earth here. It lists coordinated for all the sites, except for the restricted ones. You just have convert the coord from decimal format to dms. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 16:50, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Finished up with the tableizing of the Virgin Islands list. Thanks for starting the tables, it made alot easier/quicker to add in the coordinates. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 02:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Framingham, Massachusetts
Would you please take some few minutes to read the "Your changing of headers and footers in NRHP county lists" section on my talk page and the "NRHP headers" section on Clariosophic's talk page, and then go to the "Historic places in Framingham, Massachusetts" link from my talk page section? Not asking you to do anything otherwise at the moment, but I'd appreciate it if you'd watch this link and help reply to this other editor, Jerem43, if necessary. Thanks! Nyttend (talk) 04:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Shoppers World.
Read the article. The original name was Shopper's World. After it was torn down and replaced with the strip mall, it is now called Shoppers World, no apostrophe 's'. The original name of the article was the correct one. --Jeremy (blah blah) 06:44, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for correcting that. --Jeremy (blah blah) 06:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

SD Lists
Hi - I've replied to your latest post at wt:SDAK. Like I said there, I hope that my earlier posts didn't make it sound like I thought your work in the area or the lists themselves were unimportant or anyting, I was just coming from a state-wide, big picture outlook, and I guess this means that sometimes things like this get rated as being of lower importance than some would like. By the way, I do like the idea of filling out the image sections of these a bit; I've added a few photos to the Minnehaha County list, and I'll dig around to see if I have any more that I didn't upload for whatever reason. Alexius Horatius  07:02, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Awww, so you're tableising this now? I had seen that it hadn't been done, so I'd planned to do it.  I guess I'll have to go to Tennessee...Nyttend (talk) 03:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ebyabe is doing a little Tennessee work now, but I'm doing a complete overhaul, so it should be ready soon. Perhaps you remember my procedure (do everything in Preview mode or in Notepad, not posting until everything is ready), so it will be a little while until you can see any changes from my work, but then it should be rather rapid.  I hope to get to Indiana sometime soon (all the other states around my Ohio are finished), but it's had some tables in place for a long time.  Nyttend (talk) 11:47, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Picture question
In this edit, a photo was added from the property's NRHP listing. Clearly the tag is incorrect, as it's marked PD for being the work of an NPS employee. However, this is a post office, and the USPS appears to have been the nominator: is this PD-US-Gov of some sort? Would appreciate a more informed opinion than mine. Nyttend (talk) 03:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Replied on my talk page, but I did contact the NPS and just got their answer back: the response was, in effect, well, we thought we could release them, but we can't, so everything we say on the focus website's wrong. So much for that, I've tagged them for deletion on Commons. I believe I'll approach the Wyoming SHPO and see if Richard Collier might be willing to give us OTRS permission to use his work - he's covered nearly everything in Wyoming and his work is of high quality. Maybe this will motivate the NPS to correct their notices, but I'm not holding my breath.  Acroterion  (talk)  12:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, I brought up the issue of the NPS tag/employee work on Commons, but the point is now moot, I believe - having a tag for NRHP-derived images would imply a precedent that doesn't exist.   Acroterion  (talk)  12:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Mistake in Sioux County Courthouse (Harrison, Nebraska)
In your new article, Sioux County Courthouse (Harrison, Nebraska), the info in the infobox is for the Orange City, Iowa Sioux County Courthouse, not the Nebraska one. I'd fix it myself, but I don't know the correct info. --TheCatalyst31 Reaction•Creation 18:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for noticing! Fixed. doncram (talk) 18:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Ambrose Hall reply
Ok, thanks for your advice. I haven't found anyone else in Scott County, Iowa in my tours of Wikipedia, so I might just be stuck creating/photoing them myself, doing a few here and there. Is there a NRHP website that describes and gives histories of each place?  C T J F 8 3 Talk 19:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Triggerhappy?
Don't take things so seriously, but in a "pot meet kettle" moment, you do understand that your creation of multiple disambig pages for articles that don't even exist is pretty much a definition of trigger happy? Flesh out one set of articles before making another disambig page with five redlinks. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 01:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that I used a PROD and and not an AFT tag; a PROD tag, unlike even a speedy tag, is allowed to be removed from the article by the article's creator. For simplicity's sake, it's a way of being able to go "hey, this right here might not be the best way to go about things".  It's not my project, and I'm not in any groups/committees; I just happen to dislike in general the creation of contentless stubs and/or edits/creations that form an inordinate amount of redlinks.  If this is the way it is going to work for you/you-folks, then go right ahead, I just get wary of the current, in-the-process results of a "half-assed" (to use the simplest term that comes to mind) disambig page (in the sense that there is not at this time anything to disambig).  Best of luck with the work. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 02:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I have lost my way
I am in the midst of too many things and have lost my way. What is more important; work on Syr list per comments at peer review, lay in more county tables in MO, work on towns in AR, then MO? I have the day off, and may be able to do a little, around some other errands. Lvklock (talk) 14:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Have decided to do a bit of clean-up in MO, then back to AR. Lvklock (talk) 15:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm back at it. Going back to work on MO list I was looking at earlier. Lvklock (talk) 23:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced dab
This:

Clarksville Historic District may refer to:


 * Clarksville Historic District (Clarksville, Missouri), listed on the NRHP in Missouri
 * Clarksville Architectural District, Clarksville, TN, listed on the NRHP in Tennessee
 * Clarksville Industrial District (Clarksville, Tennessee), listed on the NRHP in Tennessee
 * Clarksville Historic District (Austin, Texas), listed on the NRHP in Texas
 * Clarksville Historic District (Clarksville, Virginia), listed on the NRHP in Virginia

disambig

should go in Clarksville Historic District (disambiguation), not at the base name. (Which I can do, but that'd put my ID in the edit history instead of yours). This holds true in general for new places. If only one thing has an article of its own, then it's the primary topic. A disambiguation page may be needed, but please do not move the primary topic away from the base name to create it. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:34, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And, for what it's worth, the creation of stub articles also does not necessarily mean that the primary topic article ceases to be the primary topic. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I think this edit still needs to be reverted. Otherwise there's no way to get to the dab page. -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:06, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I just opened a requested move discussion at Talk:Clarksville Historic District (disambiguation) to fix the situation / undo your previous moves. Discussion to continue there. doncram (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

June 2009
You have made a bold move. It has been reverted, twice. Discuss instead of continuing the move war, or start a normal WP:RM process. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

NRHP William Conner House
Currently the infomation and infobox about the NRHP William Conner House is located at William Conner. Do you think it is more appropriate there in the relevant biography article or at Conner Prairie, where the house is actually located and where people would go to visit it? I would like to expand the Conner Prairie article, but I don't want to duplicate information. I definitely do not think the house should be a separate article (yet). Thanks, Reywas92 Talk  17:36, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The NRHP infobox for the William Conner House is currently at William Conner, but I will move the infobox and most of that text to Conner Prairie and expand it. I agree that the places are generally notable enough for an article, but that doesn't mean they always need one if there is another appropriate article it would fit into. No, I was about to expand Conner Prairie; I didn't come from the Hamilton County list, but I will surely be using it in the future. Thanks for the link, it looks quite useful. Reywas92 Talk  18:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

David Jones House
Question about this edit — by putting the street in the name of the property, doesn't it make it look as if the property name includes the street name? The reader shouldn't have any difficulty distinguishing the two sites in the table, since there's the address line nearby, but it might be rather confusing to find that we're giving something other than the official name when the official name isn't in error. Nyttend (talk) 23:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you have to show the reader that they will go to 2 different places if they click on the 2 different David Jones House articles. You have to show something different.  I've done this in a fair number of other places.  Some editors prefer to use different years of construction in making distinguishing names, and i like using the full street address number and then street, but I followed ur choice to use the road names in the actual article titles that you were suggesting. doncram (talk) 23:16, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not saying what I meant — I mean "by displaying the name of the property in the table", as in making it appear as "David Jones House (High Street)", as if the official name included the parentheses. I agree that it's necessary to include an address in the actual link.  So you think it's better to include street address?  I don't care: if you think that's better, please change the links.  Nyttend (talk) 00:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No, you were perfectly clear, and/or i didn't misunderstand. House number doesn't matter either way.  I think what is important is not to be surprising to the wikipedia reader when they follow a link.  A parenthetical phrase is the best idea i have for what to show.  It absolutely must be different, else you hit the surprise factor which is intolerable. doncram (talk) 00:53, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * In that case, I misunderstood your response. Sorry...Nyttend (talk) 01:29, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Missouri, Counties O–St.
I'm done with my run through of this list. That means I've checked all blue links, verified that old list items are all in the new list, checked towns and done redirects where necessary and left the notes for issues for you to look at where the old lists were. There are several things for you to cast your eyes over, then you can tally the list. If you want me to make a list here of the items, so that you don't need to go through the list looking for them, I can. Lvklock (talk) 23:54, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, I noticed your note to Ebyabe/Nyttend. I followed up there, telling them to let me know if they were gonna do one or the other.  I also have some Syracuse list stuff to do.  AWB, I guess I can try to figure it out.  What did you have in mind for me to do with it? Lvklock (talk) 00:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, where's that who has thing of Elkman's? I need it. Lvklock (talk) 01:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I found it. But now I screwed up something, and I don't know how to fix it.  I made DAB page for Frenchtown historic district, which should have been Frenchtown Historic District.  I tried to create Frenchtown Historic District, and was then going to change Frenchtown historic district to a redirect.  But, Frenchtown Historic District took me to Frenchtown historic district.  Can you either fix it or tell me how?  Thanks. Lvklock (talk) 03:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Lvklock (talk) 06:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I'll do some work on referencing the summaries in the Syracuse list, unless there's something urgent elsewhere? Lvklock (talk) 15:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Guess I'm not gonna work on this right away. Shall I go to AR or MO? Lvklock (talk) 02:46, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm so confused. So, if I'm not taking time to make geostubs, I should just change the list entry itself to Arkansas, not do a redirect?  I so thought I was doing it right! Lvklock (talk) 19:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. I'll get back to AR now. Lvklock (talk) 20:49, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

more disambigs
I have them listed at the bottom of this page. Thanks! --Ebyabe (talk) 02:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Data table in Borden House
I think you may have accidentally pasted part of an NRHP data dump in the disambig page for Borden House, but I don't know if it's supposed to be there commented out for bots, or removed, or what, so I'll let you decide. --Closeapple (talk) 04:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Beebe Windmill
I've had a go at expanding the article, see comments at WT:NRHP. Mjroots (talk) 05:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the image of the machinery would be better in the NRHP infobox. That way the thin column of text would be removed. Mjroots (talk) 12:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for developing the article. About the image placement, feel free to move it back into the NRHP infobox.  I moved it out when wondering how to fix the embedded display problem, which turned out to be a different matter (M vs. N in spelling of "embed").  But where i have left it, the picture is alongside the text describing the machinery, which is helpful.  And the infobox is not longer than the whole article.  So I think it is a matter of taste, whether you dislike a thin column of text or whether you dislike the too-long infobox and gap below the text description.  Please do feel free to rearrange the layout as you like.  I am done for now.  Thanks! doncram (talk) 12:13, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Hundreds of stub lists
While I understand splitting out lists of NRHPs from statewide lists for counties with the most listings, there is absolutely no reason to have a sublist for every single county, which is what User:Ebyabe has been doing with AWB. For some counties it's appropriate to split, but most abolutely not. There's National Register of Historic Places listings in Crawford County, Indiana, which only has one member! With 3,077 counties in the United States, I'm sure you understand there should not be a page for every one of them. Doing so only dilutes the quality of the statewide lists. Now Ior someone else will have to merge and redirect many of these new county lists. Ebyabe did create tables for all the listings, but there should not be list for every county. Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk 16:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I pretty much agree; see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places discussion which i opened. However i don't think it is going to cost much extra work to move the separated tables to the state-wide page or to new partial-state pages.  Please discuss a way to reorganize Indiana NRHP tables at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Indiana, i'll comment there. doncram (talk) 16:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Former NHL
Sorry to keep asking you, but you are one of the major NRHP people. On List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana, Milwaukee Clipper is listed as a former NHL, but it actually isn't. It was just moved to Michigan. Since it was designated in Illinois and is now in Michigan, should it even be listed on the Indiana list, much less called former? Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk 19:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, between Illinois and Michigan, it was in Hammond, Indiana for seven years (1990-1997). --Ebyabe (talk) 01:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that I should keep it in the article? But then what should I call it? It's not a former NHL. Also, before I put it in the articles, what do you think about the template I just made: Template:NHLs in IN? Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk  01:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * List of National Historic Landmarks in New York has the same issue and uses the text "former".   I believe former could include "Demolished", "Moved", and "Delisted". dm (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Good i'm glad they're several people responding here, nice to hear from u Dm. Yeah, the Former NHLs in NY title was meant to collect together ones which were formerly NHLs in NY for different reasons.  I'd argue that the ship was formerly an NHL in IN, too, but since there's just the one former of any type, you can choose to use a more specific phrase.  I see you have it at "Moved National Historic Landmark" now, a bit odd.  How about "NHL formerly located in Indiana"?  I do think there's value in showing in the state list what was there but is there no longer. doncram (talk) 05:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

List of RHPs in AR
Conway Co; Cedar Creek Bridge lists Petit Jean State Park under Cit or Town. Then there thirteen separate buildings in Petit Jean State Park, but they are listed in Winrock. Would you change the Cedqar Creek Bridge one to Winrock (noting it at NRIS issues)? Lvklock (talk) 21:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ covered, resolved elsewhere: no, not sure it is in winrock town or not, park could be bigger, leave to AR locals to fix later. doncram (talk) 05:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Who the heck would name their kid Noel Neal? Lvklock (talk) 16:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Where are you up to, in AR? Lvklock (talk) 00:08, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just 4 M counties left, on the L-O list. Why does Arkansas seem so big?  It didn't seem this big the time I drove across it. Lvklock (talk) 03:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Snuck in Madison Co. before work this am. I suppose we're making progress. :) Lvklock (talk) 12:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, look at Miller Co, J.K. Wadley house. Missing date, address and town shifted left.  This is an edit error, nnot an NRIS error, right? Lvklock (talk) 00:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, you fixed it. ✅

Also, Mandeville, in the town column...Mandeville, Arkansas redirects to Texarkana metropolitan area. Would you leave it that way? Lvklock (talk) 00:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Mandeville, Arkansas article created. ✅
 * Washington County, Durham School. Needs dab.  Existing article for Durham School in England. Your expertise. :) Lvklock (talk) 19:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Durham School disambiguation page set up. ✅
 * Also, Headquarters House. Existing article NRHP in Boston Lvklock (talk) 19:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Headquarters House changed to a dab for Boston and Arkansas ones and one other similar. ✅
 * And Ridge House, which redirects to a CA school whose campus has a Ridge House. Lvklock (talk) 20:10, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ridge House a dab page now. ✅
 * Shiloh Church, existing article NRHP in RI. Lvklock (talk) 20:13, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Shiloh Church a dab now. ✅
 * White Couty, Plummer House, another NRHP has the name. Lvklock (talk) 02:02, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * White County has thre Lightle Houses, plus two more with first names, all in Searcy. Lvklock (talk) 05:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Lightle House dab set up, and the 3 named same in same county set up to show (Street) disambiguation in list-article, to have (Street, City, State) names underneath pipelinks. ✅
 * Stone County, Pictograph Cave, NRHP in Montana has the name. Lvklock (talk) 04:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pictograph Cave disambig created. ✅

At this point, I believe A-O are all done, and I've done all I do for R-S and T-Z, they just need some DABs from you. That will just leave the P's, which of course includes Pulaski County where there are 288. It's progress, anyway. Lvklock (talk) 05:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I did more in R-S just now, including creating some other dabs like Mann House and Stokes House which weren't bluelinks yet but are common names.  I believe that R-S is all finished up, except for tallying on the state page.  Yes, a lot of progress, now that our expectations of progress are lowered... :) doncram (talk) 08:33, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, since your expectations were highest, I guess you'd have to do the most lowering of them. You actually continually surprise me with things I haven't been doing that I "should" have.  :)  Anyway, we had to do some lowering last year, too.  It's good for us to leave some room for improvement.  I'm absolutely no good with figuring out what are common enuf names to require DAB, unless they're bluelinked.  Oh, darn, that reminds me that somehwere there was a Christ the King Church I need to check on.  Well, I'm not gonna be online for a while...hopefully later if the internet is working where I'm going.  If not, I'll be back to it tomorrow sometime. Lvklock (talk) 13:54, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Did Christ the King, as a dab and pipelinking the Sebastian County, AR one. Caught up with your disambig notes for now.  The bluelinked ones are the most important, the only obviously needed ones.  Some of "common" ones i do are optional for now, but I think they help build disambiguation structure that will be needed more obviously later, and head off future needs for others to change in multiple places (which they might or might not do). Thanks! doncram (talk) 19:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I see you're working in Pulaski Co, right now.  Is there still town stuff in the P-Prairie list?  If not, where shall I work? Lvklock (talk) 23:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

All done here. doncram (talk) 21:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Indiana NRHP disambigs
Here's the ones I found. Any questions, you know where I'm at:
 * Annadale (North Vernon, Indiana)
 * Annadale, Staten Island
 * Annadale dab created with these. ✅


 * Aurora Public Library
 * Aurora Public Library (Aurora, Indiana)
 * dab created ✅


 * Free Church
 * Free Church (Angola, Indiana)
 * dab developed ✅


 * Goshen Historic District
 * Goshen Historic District (Goshen, Indiana)
 * Disambiguation page Goshen Historic District ✅, although other issues relating to two items on it, for which i created stub articles, continue at Talk of List of RHPs in CT. doncram (talk) 09:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Lakeville High School
 * Lakeville High School (Lakeville, Indiana)


 * Pennsylvania Railroad Station
 * Pennsylvania Railroad Station (Fort Wayne, Indiana)


 * St. Joseph School
 * St. Joseph School (South Bend, Indiana)


 * Twin bridges
 * Twin Bridges (Danville, Indiana)


 * Wells Street Bridge
 * Wells Street Bridge (Fort Wayne, Indiana)


 * Woodbank
 * Woodbank (Culver, Indiana)

Btw, my favorite list is for Parke County. 'Cause I love me the covered bridges. :) -Ebyabe (talk) 01:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * On a segue from the same subject, if you are engaged in disambiguating these, note that there seem to be at least two "St. Joseph Schools" in South Bend, IN. In addition to the one on the National Register, there's St. Joseph's High School (South Bend, Indiana) (different coordinates). --Orlady (talk) 23:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. I started St. Joseph School as a dab, temporarily, but it needs to be merged/redirected to St. Joseph's School, much bigger dab. doncram (talk) 21:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

All others done. doncram (talk) 21:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Coahoma County, Mississippi
Hello. This list includes a Woolworth Building which you added separately from the rest of the article. I'm interested in creating an article but I can't seem to find the listing on multiple different NPS searches like this one or this one. It looks like most of your list is not appearing though. Do you happen to recall what your source for the list was? (Ultimately, I'm looking for the submission form to get info for an article.) ThanksRevelationDirect (talk) 09:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The Woolworth one is a relatively new listing in late March, 2009. I just added a footnote to its entry, attached to its date field, pointing to the National Park Service's weekly listing report that announced it.  The source for most of the table entries is the NRIS database, made available through a download which covers up to early March, 2009.  I believe that they refresh their own publicly available search database to that point as well.  User:Elkman downloaded that and makes various reports available.  The NPS makes new downloads available only occasionally, like every 6 months or so.  So Elkman's reports and the online NPS reports do not have more recent listings.  However the NPS pulbicly report new NRHP listings, delistings, and other status changes on a weekly basis at a webpage: http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/nrlist.htm, and a number of wikipedians pretty much ensure that every announcement, such as the Woolworth Building entry here, is captured in our tables.  Hope this helps.  Please ask further questions.  Are there any other particular ones you question?  Also, you may request the NRHP application form for any NRHP-listed property from the National Register directly, for free, by email to nr_reference (at) nps.gov . For some states, the state's own NRHP program office may also make documents available on-line, but I am not aware of Mississippi doing that. doncram (talk) 17:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Courthouses
I've replied per your request. By the way, thanks for leaving notice at the other pages, since NRHP courthouses are definitely not only an NRHP thing. Nyttend (talk) 01:34, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

RE: NRHP stuff
I did check the NRHP webpage, and I noticed that The Washington House Inn was not on there, but I was just there yesterday and there was a plaque on the front of the building stating that it is an NRHP site. I think that I'll check the Cedarburg Public Library to check this information. Also, if you need any help with stub articles on NRHP places in Ozaukee County, i think i can be of some major assistance, since i do live in the area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loopygrumpkins (talk • contribs) 20:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I Thank you for pointing that out to me. I was not aware of that. I was thinking that notable places with smaller amounts of information could be given their own small sections on the main article of the district that they are located in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loopygrumpkins (talk • contribs) 03:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

NRHP colors
Was the issue with NRHP colors ever sorted out? There was talk about deleting certain colors, but I never heard anything else about it. I'd like to add the NPS designations to Template:Designation/doc, but I don't want to add any without having the color issue sorted out. Any information? Thanks! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:43, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * NRHP colors legend was updated behind the scenes, by four redirects of colors for IHS color and 3 other previously separate colors, per the TfD discussion at Templates for deletion/Log/2009 May 21. doncram (talk) 07:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Ok it appears to me that IHS was redirected to NHS, and all the battlefield designations were redirected to NB. I'll add them accordingly. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 07:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Williams Farm
Hi, sorry I didn't notice what the bot was up to here earlier. If in future you find the bot is in error then either just add a hangon to the page and the first admin who gets there should clean it up, ask me to remove the speedy (I'm not always, but often online), or ask the nominator to remove the speedy. I was just about to put a couple more catches in so mistakes like this should be less often. Cheers - Kingpin13 (talk) 15:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Old Mill
Hi, when you have time, please take a look at this disambiguation page. In particular, look at the discussion on the talk page Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 20:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've made another suggestion on the talk page. Mjroots (talk) 10:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've redone the page, per the discussion. Have a look and let me know what you think. Mjroots (talk) 08:06, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know if you missed this or not, but I'm awaiting your reply. If this is an acceptable way to do things I'll alter the others similarly. Mjroots (talk) 20:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

please restore Painted Rocks (Theba, Arizona)
Please restore this valid article about a National Register-listed place which I created. You deleted it without notice and without explanation. doncram (talk) 22:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It was not deleted - it was moved to Painted Rock Petroglyph Site, which is the official name of the site according to the Bureau of Land Management, who currently operate it. Cheers.  <b style="color:#0000FF;">Sher</b><b style="color:#6060BF;">eth</b> 22:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Rollbacker
Hi. I've been looking over your contributions and you certainly seem to do good work here. I've gone ahead and issued you rollback rights. Please be careful with the privilege - it can be easily lost. I recommend you read practice here before using it. I'm confident you'll use it wisely. If for some reason you don't want it, let me know and I'll revert.

You may wish to display on your user page. Happy editing. Toddst1 (talk) 03:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I guess. :) I'm sure it will come in handy on occasion, as there are a lot of articles on my watchlist now and i do see vandalism sometimes.  So thanks.  But, hmm, i thot no one was watching my edits.... doncram (talk) 04:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nah, just saw your new article flash by on the new article list and was surprised it hadn't been auto-patrolled. I think that only comes with being an admin, but it got my attention anyway.  You're about as solid as they come from my experience.  Cheers. Toddst1 (talk) 04:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hehe, the vast shadowy army lurks, just outside the gate, watching and waiting... ;)
 * I actually opposed non-admin rollback when it was proposed. I refused it right up until I totally botched an undo on a page so big that it destroyed my broswer-thingy-doo. It took a half-hour to get right, so I opted for having a dumb idea in the first place but being smart enough to realise it. Rollback works very well with popups on your watchlist. (You do use popups, right? It's the essential tool) Do use rollback with care though, only in situations where your edit summary would be basically "rvv". Just like plagiarism, if you never get close to the edges of the definition, you'll never have a problem! Franamax (talk) 04:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm, i guess i should be more careful then.... No i have never looked into popups. Looking at wp:popups now.  Actually, sometime recently i was told i was now on a "whitelist", but then also i have been getting a fair amount of interruptions from new page patrollers recently, as i do a bunch of new disambig page creations as part of a secret cleanup campaign.  These sometimes are semi-reasonable decisions on their end, but a waste of everyones' time overall because the PROD or whatever they start get cancelled eventually, simply because i know what i am doing, they just don't know that.  I guess the whitelist just keeps me off some bot's review.  I gather from Toddst1's comments that it is only if i were an admin would i get out of new page patrollers' review. :(.  Anyhow, may install that popup capability.  Thanks! doncram (talk) 05:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, so you haven't yet decoded the cryptic message in the Wikipedia logo that tells you where we all coordinate the secret cleanup campaigns? ;) Do give popups a try, I doubt I could live without it now (it does hangfire every so often, but usually I just take the mouse away, then hover again) It's awesome for patrolling your own watchlist. Popups actually has its own undo feature, but I find it way easier when I spot a vandal to right-click on the rollback link, then follow the ucontribs link to see what other tricks they've been up to.
 * Om the NPP issue, that's a difference of culture among editors who pursue differing goals, each valid in their own way i.e. can't have one without the other. I avoid all that through my stern policy of creating as little content as possible. Given that I average around 20 windows and 1 hour per sourced sentence, I'm usually quite able to attain my goal of one actually useful edit per day. :) :( (Try the popups gadget, see what you think) Franamax (talk) 06:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Franamax is right on with the advice, but I don't use popups - hate them. TW and Friendly is all I need. Toddst1 (talk) 16:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Garden City High School (Kansas)
Hey Doncram. Thanks to your help, I recently got the article passed to Good Article status! However, somehow, the NRHP chart is messed up with some sort of error that I don't know how to fix. If you could fix it, I would greatly appreciate it. I am now nominating the article for Featured Article status and I am trying to "polish" the article somewhat. Thanks again for everything. JHawk88 (talk) 07:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm i looked and don't see any syntax problem in your article. But then i see the same problem in other Kansas NRHP infoboxes.  So it is a new problem in the NRHP infobox code or in the Kansas map file or something. Reporting it for now first at Template talk:infobox nrhp. doncram (talk) 08:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, i just fixed it, by this first practical use by me of rollback, over in the Kansas map file, which is apparently not protected and got a random IP edit, probably an accident. doncram (talk) 08:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Mills task force
I'd support the idea of a task force. You realise that the windmills lists aren't confined to the UK. There's Belgium, France, Germany and the Netherlands too. <g>

One problem I can see is that the coverage of WP:HSITES is coverage of historic sites that are officially designated. While listing would be covered, not all mills are listed buildings. Some windmills that are no longer standing have the potential to have full articles too. Would these be covered? I'll raise the issue at the talk page of the WP. Perhaps we can keep the conversation there. Mjroots (talk) 08:14, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've opened the discussion at WT:HS. The lists for European countries are underpopulated in that they generally only cover those mills still standing, with a very few lost mills. The Dutch lists can easily be expanded 10-fold or more by including lost mills. The UK county lists cover all verifiable mills. Those indicated by "Windmill Field", "Windmill Hill" etc have not been included. A verifiable reference to the mill (map, mention in a document) is the minimum to get an entry. Mjroots (talk) 08:42, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Wrong foot
Hi Doncram,

I believe we got off on the wrong foot with this whole Painted Rocks (Arizona) kerfluffle. My original (and continuing) intent is simply to try and provide the simplest, most accurate information to Wikipedia's users. When I came across your original name for the article as Painted Rocks (Theba, Arizona) I believed it to be an honest "overdisambiguation" and moved it to what I believed was a simpler name; I only deleted the redirect because it had no incoming links and, as most parenthetically-disambiguated titles, is an unlikely search term. I did not believe it would set off a firestorm, and for that I apologize.

I also do not wish to come across as trying to downplay the National Registry in the article. I realize that this is an issue you are passionate about so I understand how it could seem that way; again, I was just trying to balance the article as the location is more than just a NRHP site. I have made some recent, minor edits in an attempt to more seamlessly marry the information, and would appreciate if you took a look at it and provided any feedback you see fit.

Again, I understand your interest in NRHP sites and truly appreciate your hard work in that field, and do not want to come across as trying to marginalize that in the least. As I have stated elsewhere, I can be a little overzealous about things myself but I do not want to leave you with the impression that I am out to tear down anyone's hard work or the like. I was somewhat upset by your accusations of edit warring and misuse of the tools, and in return I came back somewhat strong and want to apologize for that; again, I just get defensive when well-intentioned efforts are misinterpreted as something else. It is admittedly my fault for not being more communicative and for that I am sorry.

In any event I appreciate your devotion to the project and sincerely hope that this misunderstanding does not negatively impact any future interactions we may have on Wikipedia. I look forward to building upon the work you have started and hopefully better collaboration in the future.

Sincerely, <b style="color:#0000FF;">Sher</b><b style="color:#6060BF;">eth</b> 16:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Replying to your Talk page. doncram (talk) 18:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

whitespace issues in Central Troy HD article
As I told Lvklock, I've tried those solutions too. It seems to be an IE-specific problem (doesn't happen in Firefox or Safari), and I know it's not the first article to have had that problem, either. Maybe there's somewhere technical we could ask about this?

BTW, two other things:


 * I was down on Long Island earlier in the week; got some more pics, including all three Town of Babylon listings. Perhaps I should upload the pics and create the articles to add to our "fully-illustrated list" count (like that would be so difficult).


 * Got a note from the Park Service in email re this year's NHL photo contest. Now that I have a better camera at my disposal (one with more than 300px res capability), maybe I should reshoot some that I already have. Daniel Case (talk) 03:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Louis Jordan Boyhood Home
"In the place Jordan knew best, his hometown, he is part of the blurry past as residents deal with the region's present-day poverty and unemployment. Jordan's boyhood home is rotting and falling down, and weeds and tall grass surround the building. A homemade sign reads: "Historical Site Boyhood Home of The Legendary Musician Louis Jordan."

The city has condemned the property, and the mayor is waiting for the City Council to appropriate the $2,000 or so needed to tear down the house."

I'm gonna just leave it out of the list. Lvklock (talk) 17:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Righto, good. Clearly not NRHP listed.  Interesting quote and newspaper article, perhaps could paste this to the list-article talk page for the person to find, for the person who added the house to the NRHP list.  Or not.  Thanks! doncram (talk) 17:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mayo House
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Mayo House, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process&#32; because of the following concern:
 * page should be for "articles associated with the same title" of which there are none.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Pontificalibus (talk) 20:25, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Further editing and explanation/discussion at Talk:Mayo House seems to have resolved this. doncram (talk)

CT NRHP articles
In Connecticut, the town level is where people most strongly identify the place they're in (with very few exceptions). In the tables, listing the town is useful as one can easily sort by town to see what places are in the town. My guiding principle in whether to have separate articles or not for historic districts is basically as follows. If the district is the central area of a principal community (i.e. a well-known section of town based on having distinct identity) then a single article should be made describing the section of town (i.e. the village) and including the historic district. In these cases, whatever the significance of the historic district will be the same as to why the village acquired a distinct identity. I find it irritating to have multiple articles that will be describing the same thing. If the district is basically the town center, it should be merged to the town article for the same reason (historical significane is identical). For the larger towns (including many of the cities of the state), a separate article on the town center is appropriate. In this case, the historic district article would be merged with the town center article.

In the case of Stafford Hollow, it is a village that is not on the state list of principal communities, meaning there is not likely any substantial recorded history available. Since it is not also a town center, it wouldn't necessarily fit in the historical narrative of the town of Stafford. In short, for this particular case, I have no objection about creating a separate article as there is no village/town article appropriate for merging and there would be no duplication of the description and history of the area. I hope you find these principles reasonable and do not object to merging districts where an appropriate village article exists. --Polaron | Talk 20:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh I didn't change the town names. In some cases, the town names were not used and I only adjusted them so that everything is a town. As I said, the town level is how place information is primarily thought of locally. There is no "near to" in Connecticut. A point location is in one town or another. I can assure you I have checked all these changes and the list entries are in their appropriate towns. --Polaron | Talk 20:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I copied most of the last response above as a quote into discussion now at Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Connecticut. Let's continue there.  Thanks for answering about Stafford hollow.  I have now just started Stafford Hollow Historic District article.  About the principles stated in your first paragraph above, I appreciate you stating your reasoning.  I don't know if this exactly slots into discussion at the CT NRHP page, but i don't want to ignore what you said.  So let me respond here for now:  I don't necessarily agree with those principles, that they should necessarily overrule other principles.  They seem to disagree with what has been a good approach to developing the wikipedia on NRHPs in other states, which is basically to start the historic district articles as separate articles, to attract information and photos and so on.  It often works out that the sooner started, the sooner they develop into large, good articles which are clearly not appropriate to shoehorn into town articles.  That's kind of a farming-type perspective:  start them and they will grow.  I think that often works better than attempting to confine their development within town articles which have other purposes.  Certainly the town articles can and should mention the historic district articles and include summaries. doncram (talk) 22:02, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I just got back from a trip without Internet, so I've not gotten to your requests yet; I just wanted to note that (having only read what's written here) I think it's entirely appropriate to switch the location for every site to the municipality in states that have MCDs, since the boundaries are much clearer that way: no confusion over whether it's nearer this little village or that little village. I'm off to the talk page to read discussion there.  Nyttend (talk) 03:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Pulaski County
Everything in Arkansas is tallied and done (to my way of thinking anyway) except Pulaski County. I'm starting the DAB list now.


 * Exchange Bank Building, Little Rock. Existing article in MN. Lvklock (talk) 01:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Disambiguation at Exchange Bank started, to which the building one now redirects. ✅


 * Federal Reserve Bank Building, Little Rock. Redirects to Federal Reserve Bank Building (Boston). Lvklock (talk) 01:15, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Disambiguation started. ✅


 * McLean House, Little Rock. Existing article in VA. Lvklock (talk) 02:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Set up McLean House dab. ✅


 * Nash House, Little Rock. There are two in Little Rock, same name. Lvklock (talk) 02:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dab and stub articles for both and entries in the list-article done. ✅


 * Parnell Hall, Little Rock. Links to article about author of that name. Lvklock (talk) 02:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dab set up. ✅


 * Remmel Apartments, Little Rock. Three with same name. Lvklock (talk) 02:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Trinity Hospital, Little Rock. There's an existing page. Lvklock (talk) 03:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Vaughn House, Little Rock. There are two on the list, tho only one shows on whohas. Lvklock (talk) 03:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems like there is one named Vaughn, one named Vaughan. I thot that could be a typo, but there are others of that name elsewhere.  Set up Vaughn House and Vaughan House dabs. ✅ doncram (talk) 07:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Towns are done, DABs checked through once by me, but you should cast your eyes over the list for those that I missed. Cross-checking old list, done through Gazette Building in Little Rock. But, dozing off while waiting for the page to load, so gotta stop for now. Lvklock (talk) 03:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean you didn't make MY DABs priority and bang them all out while I was sleeping? ;) Lvklock (talk) 12:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna work some on the Pulaski Co list, unless you're in it. Lvklock (talk) 15:13, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The Tavern...when I went to start the bluelink, I inadvertently put the info into and created the Efaula page, instead of the Little Rock one. Subsequently I blanked the Efaula page, but it still exists, which made it a blue link.  You know what, this is convoluted.  I'm just gonna start the Efaula stub.  Never mind my rambling... Lvklock (talk) 17:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I added the boundary increase to Hillcrest Historic District. Take a look at it and make sure it's OK?  Does the aRemmel Apt one just need to have the things listed in the article?  If so, I can do that.  Then there's just the Trinity Hospital DAB for you to look at.  I'm not sure how to add the NRHP to the existing DAB page.  The set-up is a little different than I'm used to. I'm gonna go work on re-numbering Lvklock (talk) 01:38, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Blue link on DABs
Does there need to be one created article for a DAB page? I thought this was the case, but have since come across some that had blue links only for the state list. If I don't have to make a stub, I won't, happily. But, I can if I must. Lvklock (talk) 01:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes at least one really is needed, else deletionist-leaning editors will eventually find and begin AfD or other deletion process. There's no way to argue against that, except wp:SOFIXIT and/or by starting one or more of the articles.  The NRHP dab needing cleanup tag has usually sufficed to protect all-redlink pages for a while though.  If you come across any all redlink-ones, please at least add the NRHP dab needing cleanup tag, or better, go ahead and create an article.  I've been hoping to get caught up on all the NRHP dab cleanup ones this month, but more keep arriving. doncram (talk) 01:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help
Thanks for bolding the name for me. The article is now official, tryin' to get it up to B-class   M  eteor  Man  7228  05:11, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what article you are referring to! doncram (talk) 07:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

U.S. Arsenal Building
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of U.S. Arsenal Building, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: The Tower Building of the Little Rock Arsenal. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally moving or duplicating content, please be sure you have followed the procedure at Splitting by acknowledging the duplication of material in edit summary to preserve attribution history.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 10:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I reported the apparent error in Corensearchbot at User talk:Coren. doncram (talk) 10:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Cape Verdean American
the last months there hasn't been any edit on this web page Cape Verdean American if visited cape verdean american wep pages on google yesterday and saw a few things of cape vereans in rhode island since if followed wikiproject rhode island i wanted to ask you if you could edit somethings on cape verdean american (Questchest (talk) 12:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC))

Pupin Hall
Noticed a few broken references on this page. Thought you might like to know. Viriditas (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

MO
Ste. Genevieve County had this note:


 * What are two dates for Ste. Genevieve HD. Should probably be one entry with 2 dates properly described.  Was there are boundary increase in 2002?  Article needs a little work, it describes 2002 as being the NRHP listing date which is probably incorrect.
 * It looks to me like the first listing is a NHL district, while the later one is just an NRHP district. They currently have separate articles.  I would think that was the only way to handle the distinction.  What do you think? Lvklock (talk) 02:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmmm...but the articles seem to be clones. I dunno what to do. One article with the main infobox and one pared down infobox for the boundary increase, with the distinction shown there? Lvklock (talk) 02:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Duh, obviously all the same article. Saw your comments at the list, still confused. Lvklock (talk) 03:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I ended up adding date and ref number of 2nd to first infobox. If you think something else is better, feel free. Lvklock (talk) 04:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

For some reason, MO seems to go faster than AR (thankfully). I'll be back at it tonight. Lvklock (talk) 14:06, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * !syad neethgiE .sucof ruoy tfihs me' tel t'nod dna...nwod uoy teg me' tel t'noD


 * I'm prbably not going to be much help for a couple days, as I'm in the hospital waiting to have my gall bladder out. Lvklock (talk) 13:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Upside, I'll be home a few days to make up for it. Lvklock (talk) 22:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Home now. Where can I be the most help in MO? Lvklock (talk) 17:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I renumbered the St L A-L list after adding a couple newer listings to it. When you get a chance, just check the numbers? Lvklock (talk) 00:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * When you did the Argenta Historic District in AR, how did you figure out what individual RHPs were included in the district? Lvklock (talk) 03:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I used information that shows in the Elkman NRHP infobox generator report, but which is in the left column, not in the proposed article text. Sometimes the names of included NRHP properties are spelled out.  In other cases, as here, NRHP refnums are given, and i looked up each one of them individually.  The list in this case and many others appears to be truncated from what is actually available in NRIS, but i include what it provides. doncram (talk) 04:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

When you get a chance, take a look at St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, from the St. Louis M-Z list. It redirects to St. Stanislaus Kostka Church (St. Louis), mentions one elswhwere (Pittsburgh?) at the top. It works, but isn't exactly the type of DAB I usually see. I'll leave it to you whether to leave it or fix it up. Lvklock (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ dab created --doncram


 * S.S. Cyril and Methodius Historic District is in the M-Z list. Probably belongs in the A-L list, for Cyril, I would think.  What do you think? Lvklock (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Charles Turner Open Air School. Elkman table generator lists under C.  Should be under T? Lvklock (talk) 01:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Winston Churchill Apartments. Elkman table generator lists under W. Should be under C? Lvklock (talk) 01:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that all three of these should be moved to alpabetical order in each case as you suggest. doncram (talk) 02:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Lvklock (talk) 05:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana
I think I'm finally done with List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana and would like to take it to WP:FLC soon. But first, it would be great if you could review it for me and do whatever you think is necessary. Thanks! Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk 19:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and listed it at Featured list candidates/List of National Historic Landmarks in Indiana/archive1, and I invite you to comment. Thanks, Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk  18:46, 17 June 2009 (UTC)