User talk:DoubleGrazing/Archive 23

Edward Vernon Arnold
Thank you for reviewing my submission on E.V. Arnold. I am currently working on it in my sandbox to improve it in line with advice from another reviewer, and plan to re-submit it soon. You say that three sections are unreferenced. I can see that Arnold's education is not given references, and I am working on adding these references. As for his family history, if it's important to cite authorities for who his father was and which person he married, I suppose I can find references for these matters. The claims made in the lead section are all referenced in the Career section, so I can only duplicate references in order to provide references for this section. I was under the impression that WP articles do not usually include references in the lead to material cited elsewhere in the article; however, I will now try to find references to put in the lead. RoachPeter (talk) 17:09, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @RoachPeter: yes, you are right, if the information contained in the lead section is repeated elsewhere and referenced there, then it needn't be referenced in the lead. (You can reference it there, as well, but don't have to.) Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:15, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I hope the improved version I have submitted meets most of the points you raised. RoachPeter (talk) 16:03, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Manmohan Misra
Thank you for looking over the article on Manmohan Misra, the poet and freedom fighter from Odisha. He happens to be my father, the biography written by me is being published by the Literary Council in India on their 75th anniversary. I am based in the US at Harvard University. I will review and edit the article today further and I will look for omissions. Please guide me the particular places you think I must pay attention. Best regards,

Bijoy Misra Bijoymisra (talk) 14:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Here is the link  Draft:Manmohan Misra Bijoymisra (talk) 11:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi DoubleGrazing,
just looking for some key pointers to continue editing my bio on Luke Hepworth. Is that possible? Thanks, Cerulean Robinson. Cerulean Robinson (talk) 05:44, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Cerulean Robinson: you're certainly welcome to continue developing Draft:Luke Hepworth, nothing stopping you. You may find WP:YFA and WP:REFB useful.
 * The best advice I can give you is this: find a few (at least 3, probably not more than 5) secondary sources (newspapers/magazines, TV/radio programmes, books, etc.) that are reliable and independent, and provide significant coverage of this person. Read what they say, then summarise that in your own words, citing each piece of information with the source that supports it. This will help you satisfy the two most important requirements of article creation, namely that a) the information is verifiable, and b) the subject is notable. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for this. I will search, read and summarise, citing key points that support. Appreciate your help in helping me navigate this space!
 * Cerluean. 27.32.93.111 (talk) 22:20, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Eva Michaelis-Stern entry questions
Hi, thank you very much for reviewing my first draft in sandbox for Eva Michaelis-Stern.

It was reasonably easy for me to create the draft with some headers and hyperlinks as I was using the visual editor modality.

Now that I have to edit, it seems to not allow me to access the visual edit option and I am ‘lost in the woods’ trying to do this right.

I have created a new draft, which I’m wondering if I can share with you and we can possibly end up getting it up & published from there?

Many thanks and all the best OZM22232425 (talk) 09:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @OZM22232425: your draft has been deleted as a copyright violation. The copyright detector identified over 40% similarity with the source cited, and because this was in multiple fragments rather than a single solid block of copyvio text, it wasn't easily removable.
 * If you intend to create this draft again, please make sure to write it in your own words and not to copypaste or even closely paraphrase any external sources (unless they have been demonstrably released into the public domain under a licence that is compatible with Wikipedia). See WP:CV for more information. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:25, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ennoventure
I think that you moved this puff piece back to draft space a second time, which is discouraged. The originator is moving the article around a lot, and it isn't easy to track. I have written an AFD nomination, and was about to nominate the article for deletion when you pushed it back into draft space. So when it goes back into article space, please alert me. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Robert McClenon: yes, I know I shouldn't have done it, but I didn't want to take it to AfD. There's an open SPI which looks like it might deliver a relevant ruling on this soon, and that would enable us to deal with this without opening a deletion discussion. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:21, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The originator appears to be stubborn, and is likely to move it back to article space. If so, and you see it there before me, please let me know.  I have the AFD written.  And closing the AFD might get admin attention to the SPI to move it along.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Robert McClenon: roger wilco! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:55, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

AMRIT Technology
Hello,

Hope you are doing well. I could see that this article has been rejected second time. I have specifically noted and removed the sentences and key points which were about to kind of product advertisement after your recommendation. I am happy that I got your suggestion. But in this article, it is just about to represent one technology which will be useful in the manner of water sustainability and avoid disorders caused by groundwater contamination. It would be great if you could target the objectives to remove. I want this to be available for everyone. Please look into the matter. For Draft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Anion_and_Metal_Removal_by_Indian_Technology

Thanks

Meyyarasan MeyyarasanC (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @MeyyarasanC: what do you mean "look into the matter"? You have resubmitted this draft, so one day a reviewer will pick it up and determine whether it is ready for publication. I don't think there is anything more that I can do here.
 * Does this mean you are now no longer developing Draft:AMRIT Technology? If so, please blank it (remove all the content) or place the tag on it, so that it can be deleted. Thank you. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:15, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. I need this to be published. So I meant "please, can you suggest something on this?".
 * I will wait for the next review.
 * Thanks again.@DoubleGrazing ￼ 2409:408D:608:361A:9ECD:F8F8:492D:A119 (talk) 17:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Question on new article about D. Ahsennase Douglas
Hi, this is my first time. I’m not sure specifically what us wrong with the citations. There are a number of them which seem correct. Could you point me in the right direction so I know what needs to be cited? Need to also add that this article is about myself. So how do I cite? Thanks Honey Ohkwari (talk) 15:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Honey Ohkwari: it wasn't so much anything wrong with the references that were there; it was more that the entire first section (up to 'Notable achievements') was entirely unreferenced. In articles on living people, every material statement and anything potentially contentious must be clearly supported by immediate inline citations to reliable published sources.
 * As you say that this article is about you, you need to read and understand WP:AUTOBIO, which tells you all the reasons why writing about yourself is not a good idea. And if you still want to go ahead with this, you must disclose your conflict of interest; I have posted a message on your talk page with more information on this. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I understand. I’m trying to keep it as neutral as possible and "only the facts" that can be cited. If it doesn’t read correctly I’ll remove it. Honey Ohkwari (talk) 17:21, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Biography of Ekannt Singh
Hallow DoubleGrazing

I want to make an article on a musician from India, Ekannt Singh. All the information on my article is completely true and honest. Please let me know how to make a solid article which can be approved by the wikipedia authority. Honestly I need help to get this done correctly and approved. Please reply me and guide me as soon as possible.

Thank you TanayaChatterjee95 (talk) 14:28, 8 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @TanayaChatterjee95 the most important things you need to do are:
 * Find secondary published sources that are reliable and completely independent of this person, and that have provided significant coverage (not just passing mentions etc.) of him. We need a minimum of three such sources.
 * You need to then summarise what those sources have said about him, citing each source against the information it has provided. Do not add any positive 'spin' yourself
 * Also, do not add content that doesn't come from a reliable published source. As this is an article on a living person, every material statement, anything potentially contentious, and all private personal and family details such as DOB must be clearly referenced with inline citations to reliable published sources, or else removed.
 * Remove all inline external links from the body text. The only place where external links should appear is in the 'References' sections and optionally in some later sections such as 'External links', 'Further reading', etc.
 * That will get you pretty close to publication-ready. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:14, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your guidance, will get back to you soon with all the rectification.
 * Regards Tanaya TanayaChatterjee95 (talk) 08:50, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

NY Focus Draft article
Hi— thanks for taking the time to look over my draft. While the Nieman Lab (Nieman Foundation for Journalism) is a generally acknowledged reliable & notable news source, I will continue looking for other primary citations to establish notability!

Appreciate your time :) Radiatoraligator (talk) 15:33, 9 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Radiatoraligator: just to clarify, I wasn't doubting the Nieman Lab's reliability, but rather just being unclear whether it is a primary or secondary source. I don't think it's properly secondary, but if you feel otherwise then you might be able to count that as a second GNG-eligible source. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:21, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

International Functional Fitness Federation
Hello, I was hoping you could help me understand your feedback on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:International_Functional_Fitness_Federation You stated that the article needs multiple published secondary sources, which it does have (Morning Chalk-up, Barbell Spin, Box Rox, Inside the Games - all of which are independent news agencies in the space). Also included are independent leaderboards/scoring sites with event results. Do you need to see any reference to the organizational website removed? I am have trouble understanding the feedback and any corrective action that needs to be taken, as 4 different news sources have covered this organization multiple times. Thanks for the clarification and help. Noquit (talk) 13:11, 11 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Noquit: many of the sources were the equivalent of 'routine business reporting', which does not establish notability; others were about indirectly related matters, such as championship tournaments (which might make the tournament notable, but this draft is about the organisation); and as for those leaderboards and stats, they are not significant coverage. There is also a problem with the titles you describe as "independent news agencies in the space": being hyper-specialised, their news threshold within their area of specialty is by definition lower than mainstream media's would be (in a similar way as a village newsletter will happily report on matters that even the county newspaper wouldn't pick up on); they may also be less editorially independent of major players in their space, on whom their livelihood depends to some extent at least. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:37, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @DoubleGrazing Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately, I am still confused. Inside the Games has its own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Games), so that must make it mainstream enough to use? It seems counterintuitive that a source can be important enough to have its own page, but not good enough for use as a citation. Additionally, several of the other sources are used as sources on other pages. (BoxRox and Morning Chalkup Cited here for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat_Fraser_(athlete) and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_CrossFit_Games). So can I not use those sources at all? And if so why can I not use them to submit my page, but they are acceptable for other sources? (I am not trying to be rude, I am really trying to understand, I am new to actually doing any editing/writing on Wikipedia).
 * I added a reference to another article from the South China Morning Post in hope that that would be considered "mainstream" enough for use. As well as more reporting from Inside the Games. But want to wait to resubmit until I understand more specifically what is being looked for.
 * Can you clarify also what routine business reporting means? Other than gossip or editorial coverage where an author is giving an opinion or some sort of spin on a topic, isn't all unbiased reporting of pure fact "routine business reporting"? I am not sure I understand this nuance.
 * Appreciate the help! Noquit (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Noquit: sorry, 'mainstream' may not have been the best choice of word. I meant more 'general news', as opposed to something very subject-specific and specialised. It's about their news threshold: a plumbing trade journal would happily report that a manufacturer has released a new size of valve, whereas the CNN or the NYT probably wouldn't report unless someone had invented pipes that organically repair themselves.
 * Yes, the SCMP is the type of publication that certainly fits the bill.
 * And yes, you can use even sources that don't meet the WP:GNG standard; you just cannot rely on them to establish notability (which is the problem here).
 * By routine reporting I mean the likes of
 * Jane Doe appointed as the new CEO of X, with plans to do Y.
 * X opens a new sales office in country Z, to exploit the regional opportunities.
 * X acquires their main competitor, W, for $52m.
 * ...or, indeed
 * "Lisbon, Portugal, Confirmed for 2020 IF3 Masters World Championships"
 * These usually come from organisation's own marketing/publicity team, are based on press materials, and don't provide any coverage of the organisation itself, beyond just one or two overview paragraphs perhaps. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing Thank you for the clarification. That is helpful. Noquit (talk) 18:41, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Međimurska trikotaža Čakovec
Hello DoubleGrazing,

Thank you for your message. Could you please tell me where should I put three strongest sources to be pointed out? As for me, the strongest sources could be (page 90),    and, which contain most of information used in the article, but the other sources offer important data as well. I'm looking forward to your answer. Best regards,  Silve ''' rije 21:51, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm kindly asking for your answer. Best regards,  Silve ''' rije 16:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Silverije: these are not secondary sources; they may be used to verify information, but do not establish notability per WP:GNG. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:06, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If you say so, which sources of 26 are secondary ones then? And how do mean that these sources only "may be used to verify information, but not establish notability"? These sources meet GNG requirements: they are reliable, independent and have significant coverage. And one of the biggest factories in Croatia and former Yugoslavia seems to be notable like many other similar factories all over the world, e.g. [] or []. -- Silve ''' rije 19:50, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Question from Al Begamut on Freetown Christiania (16:27, 12 June 2023)
I'm looking at the short paragraph stating that in 1989 the Danish government "legalised Christiania": I checked the reference, and can't find that fact. If I'm right, what should I do? --Al Begamut (talk) 16:27, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Al Begamut: I'm guessing it refers to this statement in The Guardian article cited: "Nonetheless, this ruling allowed Christiania to persist, and a majority vote in parliament in 1989 set the Christiania Law in stone, legalising the squat." Are you saying that in your opinion the sentence in the Wiki article ("In 1989 the Danish Parliament legalised Christiania") misrepresents the source, or is otherwise incorrect? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:36, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I simply didn't see that in the article, probably because it was buried in other subjects. So I retract my claim, though I might consider clarifying the point to track the Guardian statement a little better. Thank you for this help! Al Begamut (talk) 16:41, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * or I'll research it further actually and expand it Al Begamut (talk) 16:45, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries @Al Begamut.
 * For future reference, the basic rule is that anyone can make any edit they think improves the 'pedia. (It's a very good idea to leave an edit note explaining what you've done and why.) If that edit gets reverted, you then need to discuss on the talk page to reach consensus; don't start 'edit warring' as that helps nobody and can get you sanctioned. It's known as the 'bold, revert, discuss cycle'.
 * Obviously major edits (say, removing large amount of content, or completely changing the point of view etc.) are best discussed ahead of time anyway, as they are likely to otherwise trigger a reaction. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Entry: Theory of encryption of power
Hello, as per my entry I included a richer bibliography just as you suggested. This is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Theory_of_encryption_of_power

Thank you! Rsanin (talk) 13:04, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

RfA
I'd vote for you. Well, unless I found that one draft where I disagreed with your decision or that one time where I thought your answer at the AfC help desk was subpar. S0091 (talk) S0091 (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @S0091: haha! :) Luckily I'm such a cynical, grumpy git that it would be pretty easy for anyone to find something to object to... nay, be offended by! -- Double "Bitey" Grazing DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see how anyone who has spent any significant time as an AfC and/or NPP reviewer could not up end up being grumpy, at least from time to time. It bothers me when those who are not active in these trenches, so do not see what we do, make sweeping judgements but it is what is I suppose.  S0091 (talk) 18:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It does tend to make you quite disillusioned, doesn't it? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:57, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Seconded! I'd nominate you, if you wanted (though you'd probably want more experienced noms). — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 13:04, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks both @Ingenuity & @S0091, that's very kind of you and I am flattered, but I've zero desire to go through an RfA. And even if I did, I'm not at all sure I'd pass. And even if I did, I'm not at all sure I'd make a good admin. But thanks all the same. :) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:27, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Request on 20:56:45, 13 June 2023 for assistance on AfC submission by BedStuyResident
Thank you for the detailed feedback. I've redrafted the article following the guidelines you laid out. I'm still unsure of which copyright the film poster falls under. I've seen movie articles that cite images from IMBD as fair use, as shown here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Richard:_I_Am_Everything#/media/File:Little_Richard_I_Am_Everything.jpg.

Is it possible to follow the same steps and cite the image from The Sun Rises in the East's IMBD page? In any case, I (Black-Owned Brooklyn) own the photo. I'd love your guidance on the best way to proceed.

BedStuyResident (talk) 20:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Tugg Wilson
Hi DoubleGrazing,

The point you make is valid. My research reveals only one reference outside of the Navy, apart from mentions of Tugg in virtually all on-line book shops, and that is the agency offering his artistic services after retiring from the RN, which doesn’t seem appropriate to quote. But I wonder if this is something frequently encountered with pages for professionals? Isn’t it the case that many are widely known within their spheres - perhaps scientists, physicians, musicians for example - but little known beyond? Focusing on the Navy, I looked for a Wikipedia Naval page where I might find a list of names including some that had their own pages and found this one: Assistant Chief of the Naval Staff (Aviation, Amphibious Capability & Carriers). I stopped checking after finding that four out of only about half a dozen had little or no references to any non-service sources: Michael Layard, Roger Dimmock, Desmond Cassidi and Richard Janvrin, In fact, the only sources one had were his promotion notices in the London Gazette. Is Tugg Wilson’s page so bad when compared with these pages? I am not suggesting that these pages should be questioned, but rather that Tugg’s page be reconsidered please. He was truly remarkable, entertaining over a million servicemen who served during the publication of his cartoons in the Navy News from 1954 until beyond his death in 2006 and using humour to contribute to the safety of air crews. I’ve not found it said about any other naval person that they had “done more for the morale of the modern Navy than any other individual”, as editorialised in the Navy News, or found any other royal accolades the like of that attributed to King Charles. May I respectfully request reconsideration of your rejection of this page. (With apologies for this verbose reply.) Scribes52 (talk) 01:53, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

James Jackson Curnock
Thank you for the feedback and my apologies it has been many years since I created a profile. You are absolutely right there wasn’t enough sources so I’ve gone back to my research. Can you please review once again? It is so difficult to track down online sources of people who may have been quite well known in their day but weren’t national figures. I’d really like to get JJ a biographical page as he produced many important landscapes of Wales. Any feedback is appreciated. Best wishes. Goldwrite Goldwrite (talk) 07:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Requesting for Assistance
Thank you so much for all you do.

Please i would like you to put me through on to run the editing the profile page Minister Joseph Lb Minister Joseph Lb (talk) 07:33, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Minister Joseph Lb: I don't know what that means. What is it you want to do? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:52, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * i'm trying to create a Wikipedia page for myself, just like other artiste.
 * How do i go about it to make it work? Minister Joseph Lb (talk) 07:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Minister Joseph Lb: I will answer on your talk page, so that we can keep this in one place. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * okay sir. Minister Joseph Lb (talk) 08:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023
Hello , Backlog

Redirect drive: In response to an unusually high redirect backlog, we held a redirect backlog drive in May. The drive completed with 23851 reviews done in total, bringing the redirect backlog to 0 (momentarily). Congratulations to who led with a staggering 4316 points, followed by  and  with 2868 and 2546 points respectively. See this page for more details. The redirect queue is steadily rising again and is steadily approaching 4,000. Please continue to help out, even if it's only for a few or even one review a day.

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Draft Doon Business School Group
@DoubleGrazing thanks for review but you have to check the official website of the school where it is clearly mention in the logo it self Doon Business school group kindly check it on https://www.doonbusinessschool.com/ that is why i have started with this name if this is the only reason for Stop tag you have put in i request you to remove

Thanks SumitVerma18 (talk) SumitVerma18 (talk) 06:46, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Question from Master Jaro (15:06, 22 June 2023)
Hi DoubleGrazing, thank you for the welcome, that's really nice of you! I'm happy to accept any learnings and tips. Feel free to check my published pages and let me know if I do things correctly or not. I'm working on https://gamerprofiles.com/ and we have a games database, so we sometimes like to create pages (at least Wikidata entries) to kick off the creation of a page for a game which is missing yet on Wikipedia as well. For example, the page for the game "The Isle" has been missing in the past, so I created a Wikidata page for that. And the new game "BattleBit Remastered" is also missing yet, so I'll create a Wikidata article for it now as well. Thanks and best regards, Master Jaro --Master Jaro (talk) 15:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Question from Wegit (08:38, 23 June 2023)
Hi ,

i wanted to create a page for a public figure, can you kindly share the process and which are the document and PR required for the same --Wegit (talk) 08:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Wegit: see WP:YFA, which gives you pretty much all the advice you need to get started; there is also an article wizard (see the big blue button) which helps you create a draft and submit it for review. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your advice, i will look after it. Wegit (talk) 10:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red July 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging