User talk:DoubleGrazing/Archive 25

England 1919 Race Riots
I have added the attribution as well as having reworded the article. Volatileacid (talk) 10:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Daniel Diaz (musician)
Draft:Daniel Diaz (musician)

Hi, I see that after months waiting for review you rejected this article. I created this entry following a red link on the artist's label's page Xenophile Records, following info found on other wikis and artist's web site. perhaps I should keep it simpler?

About your comments:

I don't understand what that 'Press & reviews' section is meant to be – either cite them as references, or move them to a 'Further reading' section.

Got it, most of those links are actually references, I will create a Further Reading section for the rest. Thanks for that. Fixed now.

Also, the 'External links' are too many, per WP:EL; usually just the official website is listed.

Got it. I'm fixing now.

There is quite a lot of unreferenced content (incl. but not only DOB), and many of the sources cited are not reliable.

DOB comes from the WikiData entry on this artists https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q117317361 and his own official website.

Perhaps the references to the official web site should be removed? But al the other references are reliable, independent sources, albeit in French and Spanish. Do you suggest that any major media coverage on languages other that English are not releable? Please clarify that.

I appreciate your help on this, kind regards

VP Vicpaz (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Charles III requested move discussion
There is a new requested move discussion in progress for the Charles III article. Since you participated in the previous discussion, I thought you might like to know about this one. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:47, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Vita Carnis
Hello, I'm writing this to ask about my draft for Vita Carnis. You said that my draft was "not adequately supported by reliable sources". My main question is what would be a reliable source in this case? Because I can't think of any more reliable source than the creator and the series itself. Thank you for your help, have a nice day. Palpatine of the Seven Seas (talk) 19:01, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Palpatine of the Seven Seas: the concept of reliable sources is detailed at WP:RS. The series itself can be used as a source for things like the plot, credits, (some) technical details etc., but that's about it. The show creator can be used as a source, for non-contentious facts, within the confines of WP:SELFSOURCE. Note also that TV Tropes and Red Bubble are not considered reliable. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:40, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

About AOMEI Backupper
I noticed that you deleted my draft entry AOMEI Backupper. I wish to re-edit this article. not bad? Lmj565 (talk) 09:17, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Lmj565: I haven't deleted anything; I couldn't, if I wanted to, as I'm not an admin. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red August 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 19:24, 28 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

"Reliable sources"
How can the sources in my Suleymanov article not be reliable? Just because they are Kazakh doesn't mean they are unreliable. The book about Jambul is not fake you can read it yourself in google books e-history.kz is a very respected Kazakh website it is not samizdat nor is it satire it is a real and reliable source used in other Kazakh article in Wikipedia. Soviet aces is used in lots of articles about non-Kazakhs so I know that it is not a prohibited source. Орта жүздің Ноқта ағасы Тарақты шежіресі is a reliable source too it is even used in the Russian language article for him. Suppose you were an editor of Kazakh Wikipedia - would you reject an article about an American medal of honor recipient because you don't think that major american sources like CNN were good enough? If you arent sure what a Kazakh source says all you have to do it use google translate or yandex translate it doesn't matter the point is that Kazakh and Russian language citations are verifiable and can be reliable KazyKazyKazakhstan (talk) 12:21, 30 July 2023 (UTC) Can you just be honest for a minute - did you make any attempt to read any of the sources I cited in the Suleymanov article at all?KazyKazyKazakhstan (talk) 12:48, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Kazimierz Dyński
I've added some other references to make the information more complete, but I also wanted to add that all of this is mostly a translation from the Polish Wikipedia article on the same person. If the article could be published in Polish, why can't it be in English? BoscoPL (talk) 13:19, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @BoscoPL: every language version of Wikipedia is an entirely different project with their own policies and guidelines. The English-language one has the most onerous requirements (that I'm aware of, at least) in what comes to referencing, both in terms of notability and just basic verifiability. So it can happen quite easily that an article is accepted into another language version, but when you translate it into English, it's not accepted here. I sometimes translate from the Finnish version myself, and I've learned the hard way that the first thing I need to do before translating anything is to check whether the sources are enough, or if they're not, whether I can find additional sources that meet the various requirements.
 * BTW, if, as you say, you've translated this from the Polish article, you need to acknowledge that as the source; see WP:HOWTRANS. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the helpful advice! Hope I didn't come of as rude, before but I've been waiting for this page to be published for some time :D I've now added the proper acknowledgement for the translation. Still learning how to do proper contributions so thanks again for the helpful tip. BoscoPL (talk) 16:31, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Pierre de Theys, seigneur d'Hercules
You declined this draft, stating that it hasn’t reliable sources. When looking at the article the references are historical reference works, for instance this one and this one. Can you please have another look at the draft and give better feedback? 109.38.139.34 (talk) 17:08, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The draft has nine paragraphs, of which only three are referenced; in other words, ⅔ of it is not supported by reliable sources. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: User:Enduretheexile/sandbox
Hello DoubleGrazing, and thanks for patrolling new pages! I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of User:Enduretheexile/sandbox, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Not unambiguously promotional. You may wish to review the Criteria for Speedy Deletion before tagging further pages. Thank you. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

DOD retry
Howdy…. So… an online copy of his obituary is apparently unavailable. But I did locate the newspaper clipping my mother saved. I do not have the page or publication # but the date of the obit is January 4 1969, the day after he died. In addition I also have a copy of the death certificate; rendered by the city clerk of Gardner MA. (He expired in a hospital there following complications of an accidental fall). It also lists DOD as 1/3/1969. The DOD copy is dated 1/6/1969. Both of these list him as John J Honkonen. Sort of an Americanization of his Finnish name as he was more widely known as Jallu in his Finnish ‘circle’. If necessary (and with some direction) I could photo either of these and upload to you. (?) Eldyr88PHy$N (talk) 02:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Request on 13:33:15, 6 August 2023 for assistance on AfC submission by Pantherslair
I require assistance please because I have no experience preparing these types of articles and do not really understand some of what has been asked of me. I have plenty of back story and history on STEREO 10 as the business owner of the Radio Station, but do not know how to correctly submit this information into the appropriate format. I also do not know how to submit the newspaper and Radio industry articles correctly into the references section as well as adding other information into the appropriate sections. Any help and assistance that could be provided by a senior and experience Wikipedia Editor would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you most sincerely. From User: Pantherslair Pantherslair (talk) 13:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Pantherslair: when I declined this draft, I pointed you towards WP:YFA and WP:REFB as useful sources of advice; please read them, if you haven't yet done so.
 * Your primary objective will be to show that the subject is notable in Wikipedia terms. This means simply that there exist multiple secondary sources which are reliable and independent of the subject, and which have covered it in significant extent. Find such sources, and summarise (in your own words – no copypasting or even close paraphrasing allowed!) what they have said; that not only establishes notability and verifies the information, it gives you what you need to write. That last point is important: you should not write what you want to write about your business, but merely summarise what others have said, without putting any 'spin' on it.
 * But first, given that this is your business, you must disclose your conflict of interest (COI) and paid-editing status. I will post a message on your talk page with more information. Please make your disclosure as your very next edit after reading this. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:55, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Double Grazing. Thanks for the reply. I do understand about keeping the content factual and non opinion based about the history, format and function of STEREO 10 as a 'NFP' (Not for Profit) Online Radio Station. I will read over as much of what you have provided for me and do my best to understand it. Much of the content for the article could be sourced from the history page of the website and the rest I could add as first person factual historical knowledge, cos I "lived" it. As for references, there are only 2 external articles written about the re-birth and a Television NEWS segment on BTQ 7 Brisbane / QLD. I also do not want to write what I want about the business, but rather keep it as historical and factual as possible, without any 'puff pieces' or spin, as you put it. I also do not want for there to be any issues surrounding perceived conflict of interests, because my intention is to keep this article as open, honest and transparent as possible. With your continued support and assistance, I am sure this article will finally be what it needs to be. Pantherslair (talk) 15:51, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * virtually nothing from the history page of your website would be acceptable and absolutely zero from "first person factual historical knowledge" all content will need to supported by independent reliable sources. Theroadislong (talk) 16:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Pantherslair: as my learned friend says, we cannot accept any content that is not supported by reliable published sources, no matter how true and accurate it may be, because a core principle of Wikipedia is that all information must be verifiable from published sources. Also, we only ever summarise what others have said; we are never the first to publish anything, and do not allow primary sources or original research. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Question from Al Begamut (16:14, 7 August 2023)
Hey, In the article for Neville Chamberlain, under the section "September 1938: Munich :: Preliminary meetings," is the following statement: "Under considerable pressure the Czechoslovaks also agreed, causing the Czechoslovak government to fall."

As a reader, I need to know what is meant by the CZ government "falling"; there's no nearby context, that I can see in the article, for this assertion. I would think to add a tag for "further explanation needed" or whatnot, but I wanted to check with my mentor on how I should proceed.

Thanks! --Al Begamut (talk) 16:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Al Begamut: I would have thought the expression 'government falling' was fairly self-explanatory, but perhaps you're after a more nuanced explanation than simply 'collapsing'?
 * Anyway, a core principle of Wikipedia is that anyone can make any (sensible, good faith) edit they feel would improve the 'pedia, and that includes tagging articles for improvement. So go ahead – the inline template you probably want is Template:Clarify. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * yeah for me, and thus for some readers, lacking knowledge of how governments "fall," I want to know how the event triggered the fall and what the government did in the process thereof. granted, the existing statement may be sufficient for an article not about the government's fall but about Chamberlain. but then I would still like a link to whichever article does detail the matter further.
 * thanks for the tip and guidance! Al Begamut (talk) 16:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Malkani

 * 1) Articles for deletion/Asifcroco
 * 2) Articles for deletion/Bolanicyon
 * 3) Articles for deletion/Buzdartherium
 * 4) Articles for deletion/Kahamachli
 * 5) Articles for deletion/Karkhimachli
 * 6) Articles for deletion/Kilgai
 * 7) Articles for deletion/Moolatrilo
 * 8) Articles for deletion/Pakitherium
 * 9) Articles for deletion/Pakiwheel
 * 10) Articles for deletion/Sulaimanitherium
 * 11) Articles for deletion/Zahrisaurus

Those might interest you. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:24, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I am always dubious!
Someone will take it down, I think, See Sockpuppet investigations/Rubiesar 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Timtrent ha! :) I thought the creator's UTP behaviour was a bit... off, but I'm sure I wouldn't have dug further into it. How did you find the SPI connection? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Via the various titles of the end product article. Then I saw a pattern. I've no particular problem with the article, but I do with (to be determined) user behaviour.
 * Bizarrely, socks seem to prostrate themselves before me. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:07, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, UTP?I am sure it's obvious, but not yet to me 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh sorry, user talk page. I thought they were a bit gushing. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I knew it was obvious!!! 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:28, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well done!
 * It's cases like this which turn you a cynic and test your AGF. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think one may be wholly cynical with GF undiluted! 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * SPI closed with a block and deletion 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well spotted. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Question from Incognitopublisher (14:35, 18 August 2023)
Hello I need Help regarding this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Malti_Chahar --Incognitopublisher (talk) 14:35, 18 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Incognitopublisher, can you be more specific – what help do you need? I can see that you have already received advice from Liz, and there have been extensive comments left by previously reviewers of the latest draft; please study those carefully, and if you still have questions, you can then come back to me. I would, however, point out that this draft has poorer-than-average chances of being accepted, on account of the earlier deletions, meaning that you would need to demonstrate notability beyond any doubt, as borderline cases will not be given a 'benefit of the doubt'. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Jay & Joss
Hi, many thanks for your review of Jay & Joss. I agree with your comment regarding the Personal Lives section, why did I include that? Hopefully not just padding it out. :) It's removed.

Right, I felt notability was there too. This is another case where I've written an article after seeking more information on something/someone I've come across IRL. Have I used primary sources? I'm not really seeing that, is it the Magic Circle references? Another editor had helpfully removed some IMDB references, I hadn't seen these had been disallowed in the past. Can you point me in a better direction when you have time? - Dave Crosby (talk) 10:53, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi – refs 1-7, 13, and 17 are primary, and together they account for more than half the citations. While primary sources can be used, you need to be careful that they don't support anything contentious, and that they are reliable and ideally independent of the subject. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, forgot to ping @Davecrosby uk! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks, I am going to ponder these. - Dave Crosby (talk) 11:57, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your copyedits on Friedemann Pfäfflin
I just wanted to say thank you for your review and copyedits on this article .DoctorAB (talk) 15:05, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft: Fire Eater
Hello,

You pointed out that more sources were needed for my draft article on "Fire Eater.": Draft:Fire Eater (company)

I added a handful sources for my draft article on "Fire Eater". The sources are a variation of national media (Berlingske), regional media (Sjællandske Medier) and Professional trade journals (Ingeniøren, Computerworld). I have also added a link to the original patent made by the company. Most of the sources are in Danish but some are in English.

When it became clear that the wide spread use of halon for fire suppression was a major cause for the depletion of the ozone layer Fire Eater invented one of the alternatives, which made it possible to put a complete ban on the use of halon.

As the invention of of Inergen was made (1984) before media companies started using the internet the number of English language sources is a bit limited, but through google translate it should still be able to verify all the facts in the article.

Ernst Poulsen (talk) 16:12, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

August 2023
Hey! DoubleGrazing, could you please review my draft Draft:Kartoli. BrownCanary61 (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Zvi Landsman
Writing you here as well.. Please see the talk page and see all that was written there. If it's due to being in Hebrew, let me know and I will get you more info but Zvi is an award winning director in Israel and his film was and still is a major thing in Israel. Also, he is more than just a director and according to the rules, he desereves a wiki page. Please see this and respond if anything else is missing. Thanks! Newlywo (talk) 07:46, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Newlywo: this had already been declined several times, and in your last submission you introduced no new sources that would establish the person's notability. We cannot keep reviewing the same draft over and over, just because the author is unhappy with it not being accepted.
 * Also, "according to the rules, he desereves a wiki page" – according to which 'rules' would that be? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi again @DoubleGrazing, I listed the sources in the draft since addressing them as not "good" isnt correct. I simply wrote about a few of them so it will be clear they are good and reliable sources. I didnt see a reason to add more since I placed more than enough.
 * The rules I found and read about in wiki.
 * Zvi is a film director and an award winning one. Every person in Israel in the film industry knows Zvi and this is how well known he is.
 * From your words it seems you think this is a waste of time but did you see the sources? did you read about them even if they are not in English before declining this and thinking that since it was declined before it's ok? Newlywo (talk) 16:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

KunchaiKuttiPillai
Thank you for your review of my article.Draft:KunchaiKuttyPilla_Sarvadhikaryakkar The subject is important in the history of Kerala (home to 35 million people - about the same population as Canada or Saudi Arabia) because he was the military leader who prevented forcible conversion to Muslim and torture of millions of people in Kerala at the hands of Tippu Sultan in 1789 had he conquered South Kerala.

Sources about him are scant - I live in USA, but had a chance to visit the subject's village in Kerala and talked to some older people and collected some of the info (verified by talking to more than one person) included there. Rest is from the references cited (Sorry, they are in Malayalam language). If I revisit there(after my cancer treatment), I will try the Kerala University Archives - not sure it will happen within the 6 month limit. Sankarnair2 (talk) 13:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Asking for guidance Draft: Mehdi Mirza Mehdi Tehrani
Hi. I have asking about that subject above. If you have time to read this draft and guidance me, I really appreciate. The subject has been deleted (Afd). I built it again so much different by independent sources and secondary references by the policy about living person as nobility. Your opinion about my edit for this ,is so much important. If you believe this subject by this situation had chance to move to article spaces or not plz tell me.Regards.-- Patricia   (Talk)  14:43, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

September 2023 at Women In Red
--Victuallers (talk) 16:49, 25 August 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

review of my sandbox draft
Hello DoubleGrazing and kiitos palijon for so quickly reviewing my draft at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Co1umbus/sandbox&oldid=prev&diff=1172438818

Yes, the referencing is a mess. But I'll do as you recommend and give WP:CITE and WP:REF a more careful look; I think that I have the process backwards.

The books and articles shown in the Reference section are all peer-reviewed works and in many cases reflect very low acceptance rates by established publishers (e.g., Springer, Sage). Wouldn't these qualify as reliable sources that are verifiable?

At any rate, I'll do my homework and straighten out the referencing situation. BTW, I've only been to Finland once; in Helsinki where I bought a pair of slacks that I still own (still fit!).

Co1umbus Co1umbus (talk) 02:51, 28 August 2023 (UTC)