User talk:Doug butler

February 2008
Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox. Please do not sign the article mainspaces; signatures are only for talk pages. Enviroboy TalkCs 05:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

User talk archives

 * BTW how does one create a User talk archive? Doug butler (talk) 21:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There are lots of ways it can be done, some of them automatic, but I've had no success with the automatic ones, (and anyway, being the control freak that I am, I actually prefer to have control over what's happening.)
 * So I do it manually. And there are several ways you can do that, too.
 * Probably/possibly the easiest/best way to do it, (certainly a better way to do it than what I do, but I only discovered this method in the last year - had I discovered it earlier, I would probably use it), is the two step process:
 * 1) Use "move page" to rename your talk page (e.g. move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1")
 * 2) "User talk:Doug butler" will then become a redirect to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1". Edit "User talk:Doug butler" - remove the redirect and replace it with the stuff (copied from "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1") that you like having on the top of your talk page.
 * Then, next time you want to archive, move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 2"
 * Etc.
 * Hope that helps. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That seems to have worked. Doug butler (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Doug butler/archive1 User talk:Doug butler/archive 2 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 3 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 4 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 5 User talk:Doug butler/Archive6 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 7

Autopatrolled and unreferenced articles
There was a discussion at WT:PERM about a user whose  flag I removed. Among other concerns, that user was creating unreferenced articles. To justify this sloppiness, the user then produced a list of unreferenced articles created by users who have the autopatrolled flag. Midnight Cop, recently created by you, is on this list. The affair has made its way to the Administrators' noticeboard so there may be further scrutiny going forward.

Please let me give a reminder what autopatrolled is for: this is a flag given to users who consistently create clean articles that do not require review by others. Should maintenance flags like "unreferenced" be required, this does not meet the requirements for autopatrolled. Could I thus ask you that you go please back to articles that you have recently created with a view of ensuring that any issues raised in maintenance tags (whether placed already or potentially needed) be addressed? And going forward, that you please ensure that new articles are clean so that they don't require review by others? Please feel free to ask questions. Here's good; please ping me if you do.  Schwede 66  23:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message; all I can say is it's a fair description of the plot of a work of fiction by a notable director with several notable participants and have mentioned the existence of a commercial recording. I rated the entry as stub, low importance, which I believed was appropriate and sufficient. I have now added a reference. Doug butler (talk) 07:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have added a similar reference to Sugarbaby (film), which I started.Doug butler (talk) 07:41, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Rev. George Hale
Hi, I'm working with a Unitarian historian who is interested in Rev. George Hale (an article you created). Do you have a photo of him and/or his family? You can send me a private email if you prefer. Thanks, Muzilon (talk) 05:00, 29 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi Muzilon
 * Sorry, I have nothing of the sort. Only a copy of a copy of the pacifist pamphlet he produced. The Osmond Terrace church would be your best bet. I remember a smallish wood-framed "dog collar" photo of him in the foyer at Wakefield street. Rob McPherson may be able to help. Failing the church, you might try Rev. Allen Kirby if he's still about. Doug butler (talk) 08:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the photograph! Regards, Muzilon (talk) 21:34, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Josiah Howell Bagster
Hi Doug, thanks for reaching out re Josiah Howell Bagster - my reason for moving was the absence of any other Josiah Bagster on Wikipedia, that the incoming links I looked at appeared to refer to him as Josiah Bagster as does his parliamentary biography. It's not something I feel strongly about however & am happy to take on good faith your comment on his common name. Find bruce (talk) 22:33, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Murray River
Here are the pages I'm working on updating: Thanks for doing most of the ground work on the paddle boats. -- ThylacineHunter  (talk) 08:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * User:ThylacineHunter/List of Murray–Darling steamboats - Focusing on descriptions, years, and notes, as I don't have lists of companies, captains or barges. Also adding missing boat names that I've come across.
 * User:ThylacineHunter/List of Murray–Darling barges - So far done boats up to Gem. Will add notes section when finished going through all boats, as it makes it easier to merge duplicate rows.
 * User:ThylacineHunter/Murray River - Slowly progressing with this using Google maps among other resources
 * A worthwhile project IMO. I'll keep my grubby fingers off the actual articles. You may wish to incorporate those few I did - the two Trove links are apropos, and a few more instances for Wallace as captain. Doug butler (talk) 11:23, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm ok with edits to the actual articles. I can look through the 'version history' and add in all the changes to my version of the pages before I push my edits on the actual articles. -- ThylacineHunter  (talk) 11:54, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Eduardo Majeroni
Hi Doug, I was pleasantly surprised to find the article on Eduardo Majeroni of which you are the principal author. This is a heads up that I will be making some substantial additions and changes to the article over the next few months. Virtually all of your information is from newspaper articles and as you know, they are not particularly reliable, especially when they are talking about things that happened many years earlier.

Principally because of his connection to Ristori, there is a lot of original source materials available to draw from regarding his life. There is a Majeroni family member in Italy that has done a lot of work on the family acting history, reading and copying scores of letters and other documents at the Theatre Museum and Library in Genoa, Italy and elsewhere. I am a direct descendent and inherited a lockbox full of original documents. For instance, I have his and his fathers passports (originals), marriage certificate, his children's births records, hand-written letters from and to him, playbills, the original contracts for leasing theaters, and much, much more. All of this original source data paints a different picture of Eduardo than is portrayed in the Wiki article.

The information from the South Australian Register article is especially onerous. For example, it, and other newspaper articles, say he was born in Bergamo (outside Milan), yet his marriage license, which would have derived from his knowledge, says Bassano (outside Venice), which makes much more sense since the family is from Udine (outside Venice). It says he participated in the Siege of Bologna, but that occurred in 1849 - he would have only been 9 years old. While the articles description of the Battle of Magenta is probably accurate, he also participated in the deadly Battle of San Martino in which the Piedmontese played a critical role. The article makes it seem like he stumbled into acting, yet his father was an actor and managed theaters.

So I would like to correct some of the information, add additional photographs of him, more fully document his travels (he wrote lots of letters) and acting gigs (he played in some of the finest theaters in the world, again, mostly because of Ristori). Since you are the principial author, I wanted you to know where I was coming from. Thanks!

Gaguy449 (talk) 14:21, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks User:Gaguy449 for the heads-up. I enjoyed writing the article, and as you say, it mostly comes from newspaper reports, from which I frequently had to make sense from conflicting reports. Reporters are often working on interviews, which they may mishear or misunderstand and the interviewee may be working from memories, which are fallible.
 * HOWEVER — Wikipedia works on published sources, not known facts, and assertions need to be traceable, at least in theory. If you're making a large number of corrections, it's a good idea to save them individually so anyone can check the differences. Where you don't have such references but know the existing text is wrong or dubious, leave the tag (for "citation needed") alongside. You can also leave a list of known but unsupported corrections on the article's talk page. Footnotes in the format  is another way of contradicting published "facts". If you change or delete a referenced statement give a clear reason in the Edit summary box. The previous editor may have misunderstood or misrepresented the published information.
 * I look forward to the article's improvement. Doug butler (talk) 21:51, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * P.S. Scanned documents (marriage licence, playbills, photographs) from pre-1925 (ie out of copyright) can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons using the wizard would improve the article immeasurably. Doug butler (talk) 22:05, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * TO CLARIFY: Nowhere was the First Italian War of Independence mentioned. Majeroni enlisted with the forces of Count Cavour and Napoleon III, driving out the Austrians in 1859, and was briefly involved in the siege of Bologna May 1859 (as the aggressor not the defender) when the Austrians ceded the town.
 * It appears that there was no need for Cavour's troops to lay siege to Bologna. This Italian website has been recommended to me by experts. Doug butler (talk) 21:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Doug, thanks for the tips on how to make corrections. I understand and that's how I plan to proceed and will upload the documents. Regarding Bologna, the battle known as the "Siege of Bologna" occurred in May 1849 during the 1st Ital War of Ind. That's what I thought was being referred to. Thanks again! Gaguy449 (talk) 23:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Doug butler. Thank you for your work on Aaron Danks. User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with. Please remember to sign your reply with ~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

&maltese; SunDawn &maltese;    (contact)   09:58, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Not exactly warranted. Check the history of the page, and what I contributed was a redirect of a different person born a hundred years earlier. Real credit goes to User:Bored0stiff, who created a decent little article with a properly constructed hatnote to my chap. Doug butler (talk) 12:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Touch the Sun (TV series) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Touch the Sun (TV series) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Touch the Sun (TV series) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. QuietHere (talk) 14:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 9
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of Australian films of 1986, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Geoff Collins.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:59, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Theos
Please note that disambiguation pages like Theos are meant to help readers find a specific existing article quickly and easily. For that reason, they have guidelines that are different from articles. From the Disambiguation dos and don'ts you should:


 * Only list articles that readers might reasonably be looking for
 * Use short sentence fragment descriptions, with no punctuation at the end
 * Use exactly one navigable link ("blue link") in each entry that mentions the title being disambiguated
 * Only add a "red link" if used in existing articles, and include a "blue link" to an appropriate article
 * Do not pipe links (unless style requires it) – keep the full title of the article visible
 * Do not insert external links or references - Wikipedia is not a business directory

Thank you. Leschnei (talk) 12:09, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

John Jolliffe
He's this guy. DuncanHill (talk) 21:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks DH; I need to upgrade my searching skills. Appropriate corrective measures taken. Doug butler (talk) 22:01, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I've got his Raymond Asquith, catalogue my books on LibraryThing, and have William Jolliffe, 4th Baron Hylton on my watchlist, so no special skills on my part! DuncanHill (talk) 22:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Well thanks for being nice about it :) Doug butler (talk) 22:10, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Warren and Brown
Would you support a DRV of that page? The closer didn't pay enough attention to there being a valid redirect. I'd like the history of the page kept at least - it's not sufficient to just keep it in a draft. Deus et lex (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Coincidence — I was, just then, looking for the talk pages to get the names of the two current owners. Neil Domelow was a longtime employee from before Repco, and Steve Normoyle I think is a bigtime motorsport journalist, and was hoping someone would follow those strands. They had also roped in a small handful of Telecom engineers to get their FttH project up and running. I suspect those plans went astray somewhat when Malcolm Turnbull brought in FttN and FttS alternatives. The YouTube clip of Domelow is worth watching. Doug butler (talk) 12:15, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
 * just coming here as I went to leave @Doug butler a note but then put it in the section on my talk. While I think my close is correct and the history is preserved, I have zero issue if either/both of you pursue DRV. We all want the correct outcome, although we may differ on what that is. Star   Mississippi  15:21, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Come in Spinner
MOS:5 states: Not capitalized: For title case, the words that are not capitalized on Wikipedia (unless they are the first or last word of a title) are: Dan arndt (talk) 07:12, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Indefinite and definite articles (a, an, the)
 * Short coordinating conjunctions (and, but, or, nor ; also for, yet, so when used as conjunctions)
 * Prepositions containing four letters or fewer (as, in, of, on, to, for, from, into, like, over, with, upon, etc.); but see above for instances where these words are not used as prepositions
 * Except where it is not being used as a preposition. It's not April in Paris or You're in Luck, more like Come On, Aussie, Come On. Doug butler (talk) 10:23, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Key
Just want to point out that with this edit, you left "Albums" and "Songs" as sub-sections of "Literature". I've fixed it. — swpb T&#8201;•&#8201;go beyond&#8201;•&#8201;bad idea 15:28, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Commercial Radio Australia
Hi Doug butler. When linking authors it's best to use |author-link=. Changing from |last= and |first= to |author= breaks all the short form refs in the article. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 20:44, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I wasn't aware of the problem or its solution. It will be etched in my memory by the time I'm done. Doug butler (talk) 20:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, it might be worthwhile turning on the error messages (they are off by default, see the category for details on how to turn them on Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors). -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:10, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * So much to learn, so little time. Doug butler (talk) 21:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Vision Christian Radio - sfn/harv errors — tried tinkering but don't understand and pre-existent so SEP Doug butler (talk) 23:40, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Every author in the cite must be used in the reference, well up to the first four. If there are no authors it will use editors. You can also setup custom link using the |ref= field, but that can get confusing. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 00:38, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing the honors; otherwise I would have not a clue what you meant. Now I do, but I'll stick to what I know best: and . You've been most helpful. Doug butler (talk) 02:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * If I can ever help, just drop me a note on my talk page. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 09:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

J Griffin-Foley
This J. Griffen-Foley is presumably John Raymond Griffen-Foley, the journalist and film and theatre critic, son of James Joseph Griffen-Foley, and father of Luke Foley. DuncanHill (talk) 06:38, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow! that's a mighty quick response. I've just read an article by Bridget Griffen-Foley and was blown away, then discover there's no article for her. It will only be a stub, but I've just linked about 60 references to her. Doug butler (talk) 06:44, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * She's Luke's twin sister, in case you hadn't worked that out yet. DuncanHill (talk) 06:48, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Never heard of either until last night when I read her article on the mysteries surrounding the publication of Come in Spinner, or Come In Spinner as it should be written. Today, apart from our Tuesday visit to the Bakery and tour of the op-shops I've been marking up all the references and trying to get a handle on sfn/harv errors. Doug butler (talk) 06:59, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The link to her article from the one about the book returns an error message for me "This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
 * 
 * Missing Key-Pair-Id query parameter or cookie value
 * "
 * I loathe sfn/harv refs, and not only because they break so easily. That said, I seem to do a lot of fixing them, so if you need a hand with any do feel free to ask. I learnt a new word today, "op-shop". DuncanHill (talk) 07:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * the full link was but I trimmed it back and seemed to work, but yes, now it doesn't. Watching a West Wyalong movie from the aforesaid op-shop, so can't concentrate. Doug butler (talk) 07:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * the full link was but I trimmed it back and seemed to work, but yes, now it doesn't. Watching a West Wyalong movie from the aforesaid op-shop, so can't concentrate. Doug butler (talk) 07:27, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Buonarotti Club
Thank you Doug, I appreciate your very helpful and conscientious editing of Buonarotti Club ...you have an eagle eye and pertinacious capacity to delve the depths of Trove. Jamesmcardle(talk) 22:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You're very kind. I do enjoy the detective work, but I've had enough of that article for the time being. Reconciling the various newspaper reports is most interesting. I seem to have the knack of landing on the most egregiously inaccurate accounts on first search (see https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4028563 for a ripe example) and spending hours chasing will o' the wisps. Ah well, back to building the new chookhouse. Thanks again for your encouragement. Doug butler (talk) 23:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Best of luck with the chook house - if it's anywhere nearly as well constructed as your WP entries, they'll be secure and happy. Yes, that article, written nearly 50 years after the fact, is hardly reliable, but does give some measure of what must have been a lively group! Jamesmcardle(talk) 03:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

cliftons
A deceased relative had a lot to do with the clifton clan and all I got was one mysterious watercolour painting - I will not have access to material(s) about the clan for over many days if not longer - in other words no pertinacious capacity or even sufficient or adequate access to the clifton(s) or materials about, before the last weeks of May by the way things look from here.JarrahTree 05:27, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Watercolour painting was what got me sucked into this whirlpool — Marshall Clifton and his daughter Romola. Thanks for the prompt reply. Doug butler (talk) 05:38, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I have no intention of explaining details on wiki - the pervasively effusive watercolours of one the Hodgkin clan and their provenance is boggling in comparison, more rabbit holes than you can count... JarrahTree 05:53, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The templeman's are inneresting - he had a whole life here in perth before canberra, again if trove shows signs of inadequate whatever - there is/are heaps here... but weeks away... JarrahTree 05:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Best wishes. Doug butler (talk) 06:06, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Getting closer to things now... JarrahTree 14:55, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Ian Templeman is now a stub. Over to you. Doug butler (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

 * Thanks, I needed that — double-shot black too, just the way I like it! Doug butler (talk) 00:08, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Hope Forest shooting
I was going to fix the convert problem at Hope Forest shooting (it should be ) but you might like to do that while tweaking the new text at Hope Forest shooting. Is it saying that "Hope Forest is a locality"? A URL was accidentally inserted into the reference. Johnuniq (talk) 04:44, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, leave it with me. There's more problems here than the distance. Cheers, Doug butler (talk) 04:51, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Speaking of problems: Talk:Hope Forest shooting Mitch Ames (talk) 07:31, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I missed one instance of "sister" after changing the other to "sister in law" as per the Age ref. I have just looked at the Guardian ref, which has Bartholomew's sister in law. The Guardian also has her waking up screaming which I removed, thinking it dubious and unknowable. Doug butler (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Invitation
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Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Move/Ashfield Boys' High School (disambiguation)


A tag has been placed on Draft:Move/Ashfield Boys' High School (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either
 * disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
 * disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
 * is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. Happily888 (talk) 08:08, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Ashfield schools
Hi, all your moves to the two Ashfield schools have been reversed by another editor. Personally, I don’t think that using an apostrophe as a disambiguator is suitable. Interested in your thoughts. Regards, WWGB (talk) 08:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @. Yes, of course it's nonsensical, more so as many were misdirected, one of which was what drew my attention to the state of affairs. I brought it up at Australian Wikipedians' notice board, which drew but one response. My proposal was to leave the Dublin school with the apostrophe and give the Australian one the disambiguator (Sydney), on the basis that perhaps the Irish one was older, though the Australian school was much larger. My one respondent's suggestion was the outcome I implemented. The number of notables for each was similar; the Irish old scholars were mostly soccer players and the Australians were a mixture of politicians, businessmen and other shady characters. I suppose I should investigate further and determine whether our corrector has put any thought into the reversions or simply gone for the status quo ante. Doug butler (talk) 13:06, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The reverting editor, User:Happily888, is not wrong. The Sydney school's website clearly has no apostrophe in the school's title, which one must presume is current useage, and that user points out that (per WP:DAB) punctuation is considered sufficient disambiguation, provided hatnotes draw attention to the alternative titles. They have, inter alia, quietly corrected the misdirected alumni, which is one happy outcome. I have no intention of taking it further. Doug butler (talk) 14:45, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Ashfield Boys' High School (disambiguation)


A tag has been placed on Ashfield Boys' High School (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either
 * disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
 * disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
 * is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. TartarTorte 19:59, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I do not contest the speedy deletion of this page which has become redundant as a result of reversions by . I believed presence or absence on a single apostrophe an insufficient disambiguator for a pair of otherwise identically-named boys' schools, which gave rise to some half-dozen faulty links and mis-categories. I believed, and still believe, a more transparent and intuitive disambiguator to be an improvement, but Happily888 is correct per WP:DAB. Doug butler (talk) 21:20, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Alexander Imlay
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CS1 error on Rosa Bird
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Rosa Bird, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/sandbox/43&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Doug_butler&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1167137902 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 22:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rosa_Bird&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1167137902%7CRosa%20Bird%5D%5D Ask for help])

see also: Commissioners of Railways (or Chief Commissioner of Railways), South Australia
Regarding recent edits to "See also" section in Alexander Bain Moncrieff, James McGuire (railways)], [[William Alfred Webb ...

That's not what the "See also" section is for (MOS:SEEALSO, MOS:NOTSEEALSO). Perhaps a Navigation templates would be better, or a category. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I blame the late night. Succession boxes would work except there's two consecutive redlinks. Doug butler (talk) 04:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Mitch Ames (talk) 01:07, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Northern Territory
Hello there. Just randomly read Northern Territory and saw something that looked like a typo, so I went into the history and saw that it was [/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=] in what looks like a copy-paste typo kind of thing. Just thought I'd notify you. I've done my share of stuff like that so certainly no reason to be embarrassed. It happens! Have a great day! 47.155.41.104 (talk) 06:45, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip-off. Doug butler (talk) 06:52, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Stars of Opera Australia


The article Stars of Opera Australia has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "I could not find any evidence that this is a notable DVD (notable performers, yes, but the DVD doesn't seem to have received much if any attention)."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Fram (talk) 08:39, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Power Without Glory (2015 book) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Power Without Glory (2015 book) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Power Without Glory (2015 book) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Graham87 (talk) 05:33, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Albert Collins (painter)
Hi, thank you for your message about Albert Collins (painter). I added the Primary Sources tag because of the references to family announcements, and the couple of references to posters - the latter cannot, for instance, verify the statement that the firm "specialised in quality art work for prestigious clients". But you are of course welcome to remove the tag if you disagree. Tacyarg (talk) 21:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Tacyarg! Thanks for the prompt and courteous reply. I agree that references to BD&M columns in newspapers are not secondary sources, as they are almost always lodged by the parties concerned, or a close relative. I've never seen a ruling or even an argument against using such information, we rely in it so much. In fact when disputes about DoB or DoD arise, the BD&M announcement usually trumps the commentator's date. The links to posters are informative and are interesting examples of poster art for two such clients, and not intended to support an assertion. Ure Smith and, to a lesser extent Harry Julius, are reasonably well-known names in Australia, epitomising exactly those characteristics of conservative (and expensive) good taste. Best regards, Doug butler (talk) 02:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Frederic Chapple for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Frederic Chapple is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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CS1 error on John Dowie (artist)
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page John Dowie (artist), may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Doug_butler&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=&preloadparams%5b%5d=1182707129 report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 22:39, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Dowie_(artist)&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1182707129%7CJohn%20Dowie%20(artist)%5D%5D Ask for help])

Nomination of Allyson Parsons for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Allyson Parsons is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Allyson Parsons until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Would you like to join WikiProject Australian television?
Hi Doug butler, our group, WikiProject Australian television, is currently recruiting additional editors to help edit the large project that is Australian TV. I was wondering whether you might consider joining us, since you work on Australian- and TV-related articles anyway. If you are interested, please add your name to the list of active participants, and see our list of open tasks. All the best, Lotsw73 (talk) 06:11, 22 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi Thanks for the kind offer, but I'm not really into TV programs, just happen to pick up an op-shop DVD set from time to time. ANZAC Girls was a real find. Have you approached, who did Come in Spinner (mini-series) and lots more ? Doug butler (talk) 13:17, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * No I haven't, but I will now. Thanks for the lead! All the best, Lotsw73 (talk) 13:31, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

February 2024
Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits to Pickaninny, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. '' The cited newspaper clippings are primary sources for the use of the term "pickaninny". They are only examples and don't say anything about how it was used generally. Any source from the 1920s is going to be outdated anyway. Thank you.'' —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 07:53, 24 February 2024 (UTC)


 * An advertisement in one magazine for artwork or a regular feature in another magazine hardly constitutes OR. The "Piccaninnies' Pages" was a two-page children's feature in the "Australian Woman's Mirror" from the 1920s to 1960s, consisting mostly of original work by young children.
 * But "any source from the 1920s is going to be outdated anyway" is ludicrous in the context of changing attitudes and mores. Doug butler (talk) 15:06, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Gother Mann
I notice you added the middle name "Kerr" to this article. I think you are confusing the subject with this "Gother Kerr Mann", who was born sometime later and was a colonist in New South Wales. He probably merits an article of his own. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. My bludner. Doug butler (talk) 11:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There is now a useful article for Gother Kerr Mann. Doug butler (talk) 22:59, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Alexander William Jessep
In the article Alexander William Jessep, I changed the start year for his position as director from 1947 to 1941 because the article has a Trove reference that confirms the 1941 year. You have his last year as director as 1951, but later in the article there is a claim (unreferenced, but probably from "The Royal Botanic Gardens Melbourne: a history from 1845 to 1970.") that he retired in 1957. One possible explanation is that he held a position other than director from 1951 to 1957, but perhaps one of those years is wrong. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 19:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for spotting my Spoonerism (1947–1951 for 1941–1957). Best regards, Doug butler (talk) 22:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of James Sunter for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article James Sunter, to which you have significantly contributed, is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or if it should be deleted.

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Category:Australian leather merchants has been nominated for merging
Category:Australian leather merchants has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 01:24, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian newspaper proprietors has been nominated for merging
Category:Australian newspaper proprietors has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 01:26, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian metal workers has been nominated for renaming
Category:Australian metal workers has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:48, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian event managers has been nominated for renaming
Category:Australian event managers has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:50, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian bigamists has been nominated for merging
Category:Australian bigamists has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian commercial artists has been nominated for merging
Category:Australian commercial artists has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Austrialian occupation categories
Please look at the parent categories before you make a new Australian category. Consider Category:Australian art gallery directors, there is no Category:Art gallery directors category, and there are several related categories that do not nicely map onto what you've created including Art directors, Australian directors, Art gallery owners, and who know what else. Please think about how the category you create fits into the larger category tree before you make it. It's not helpful to have categories isolated, and can actually make it harder for people to find what they're looking for. Categorization has some really helpful information that I encourage you to read.Mason (talk) 03:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your constructive criticism. I do take exception to Category:Art directors as a parent category however, as to me this has an entirely different set of meanings.Doug butler (talk) 03:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Great. So what parents should the category have? The fact that I couldn't divine it is part of the challenge. Mason (talk) 03:45, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Australian flour millers and merchants has been nominated for splitting
Category:Australian flour millers and merchants has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 03:14, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 21
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Joseph Coles Kirby, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page The Advertiser.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 08:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)