User talk:Doug butler/Archive 7

February 2008
Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox. Please do not sign the article mainspaces; signatures are only for talk pages. Enviroboy TalkCs 05:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

User talk archives

 * BTW how does one create a User talk archive? Doug butler (talk) 21:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There are lots of ways it can be done, some of them automatic, but I've had no success with the automatic ones, (and anyway, being the control freak that I am, I actually prefer to have control over what's happening.)
 * So I do it manually. And there are several ways you can do that, too.
 * Probably/possibly the easiest/best way to do it, (certainly a better way to do it than what I do, but I only discovered this method in the last year - had I discovered it earlier, I would probably use it), is the two step process:
 * 1) Use "move page" to rename your talk page (e.g. move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1")
 * 2) "User talk:Doug butler" will then become a redirect to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1". Edit "User talk:Doug butler" - remove the redirect and replace it with the stuff (copied from "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 1") that you like having on the top of your talk page.
 * Then, next time you want to archive, move "User talk:Doug butler" to "User talk:Doug butler/Archive 2"
 * Etc.
 * Hope that helps. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That seems to have worked. Doug butler (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Doug butler/archive1 User talk:Doug butler/archive 2 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 3 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 4 User talk:Doug butler/Archive 5 User talk:Doug butler/Archive6

Nomination of Cockburn (film) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cockburn (film) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Cockburn (film) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bearcat (talk) 15:56, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Vernon Islands etc etc
Hi Doug Butler,

I refer to your edits on Vernon Islands, Northern Territory. Can you please advise why you have added a map to the article?

Regards

Cowdy001 (talk) 11:52, 26 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Cowdy001
 * Can you see a problem? It's appropriate to the subject of the article, and by using the full screen option, the Islands' relation to Darwin is clear. The reason for picking on the Vernons is to do with an article I'm working on, which starts with the good ship Henry Ellis.
 * Cheers, Doug 21:43, 26 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Doug Butler.
 * Apologies for not replying earlier. Yes, there are some problems.
 * Firstly, the map is not appropriate to the article because it focuses on the three islands and does not show the full extent of the locality i.e. the Clarence Strait from the low tide line on the continental coastline to within three nautical miles of the coast of Melville Island etc as described in the article, Vernon Islands, Northern Territory.  Please refer the following link for a map showing the extent of the locality – Localities within (Marrakia) Un-Incorporated area.  In this case, please note that the word Locality effectivley has the same meaning as the word Suburb.
 * Secondly, the wrecking of the Henry Ellis should be discussed in the article about the Clarence Strait because the vessel came to grief within that body of water rather than an article about a suburb.


 * Regards
 * Cowdy001 (talk) 09:51, 16 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I see your point about the administrative locality and have removed the map. Henry Ellis reef is a location within that region, but feel free to remove, it's not my article. BTW Henry Ellis "got ashore" but did not sink on that occasion, but sprung a few serious leaks, and after some repairs was able to make Adam Bay that evening. She was later used in the sugar trade and broke up in a hurricane at Mauritius.
 * Cheers, Doug butler (talk) 11:54, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Useful article
You made some contribs to Rabbits in Australia and I wanted to thank … somebody, so thanks Mr. Butler. I had wondered whether to create pages like that and am encouraged to do so if they don't already exist. I recently heard a story that cats were deliberately introduced to control the rabbit outbreaks toward the central deserts, turns out that has been well documented: trainloads of them! Regards, cygnis insignis 16:22, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The cats eat the (cony) kittens. Look forward to your contribution. Doug butler (talk) 21:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

"South Australian Institute" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect South Australian Institute. Since you had some involvement with the South Australian Institute redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:45, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the headsup. It's a good point; probably best addressed with a hatnote on South Australian Museum rather than a dab page Doug butler (talk) 08:02, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Done Doug butler (talk) 09:04, 1 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:48, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi
Thanks for the good articles. A favor (because we've been doing clean up), can you please remember to remove the hidden userspace draft template at the top of the page when you mainspace them. Thanks! Randy Kryn (talk) 19:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Will do. Thank you for what you've been doing. Doug butler (talk) 22:32, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Cawthorne redirect
Hi Doug - the reasons for that somewhat long-winded redirect were firstly, according to the rules at MOS:DAB we are supposed to link to the actual article name, and secondly that there are actually two William Cawthornes within that page. (I have just created the redirect for W.A. Cawthorne - who may even end up with a short article one day, but the redirect is talking about two Williams). Laterthanyouthink (talk) 06:06, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * A separate article would is a good idea. WA is certainly an interesting character. Keeps bobbing up in all sorts of places. Go for it! Doug butler (talk) 06:14, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, maybe one day, but at the moment I'm too snowed under with other things, and it's only by chance that I find myself wandering myself onto pages with these problems! My issue here though is about the style of the link. According to MOS:DABPIPE and MOS:DABREDIR, we should be using the actual page names on DAB pages, not piped links or redirects... Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:33, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Staying on topic
A question was posted at Teahouse about C. A. Hornabrook, and after looking at that article, I left a note recommending deletion and start over. I pinged you, but also wanted to comment here on what I see as your tendency to go off topic. Articles about people are supposed to be about them, not extended family. Having glanced at your other contributions, my opinion is that you have a pattern of adding content that is not about the topic at hand. For example, your draft about H.L. Vosz has a section "Other stained-glass artists of South Australia". Much of Edgar Smith Wigg is about siblings and children. Your articles about two of his sons are also primarily genealogy. Please reconsider your approach as to what is germane to an article's topic. David notMD (talk) 11:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks David notMD for your candid criticism. Yes, I do look for unexpected links to other WP articles, which sometimes yields useful information. The section of the page under construction that you mention yielded a link to Harold Smyrk, at the time a very significant figure in Australian swimming and particularly diving. I started the article knowing of a few nice church windows and an organ case decoration attributed to H. L. Vosz, and it took some time to find that he had no interest in fine art, and his successors developed the company in that and other directions. Others will probably have the same impression. The first two or three "other stained-glass artists" are relevant in that they are occasionally mentioned in the same article as Vosz, as they were competitors. I've come across enough material on Smyrk and his son for a separate article or two, but not yet, as St Augustine might have said.
 * You are quite right about the two ladies. I've seen stunning pictures of Ms Burden's work, and hope someone who is in a better position than me will contribute some decent photos of their work to Commons, and a mention may help. I'm digressing. Someone once said "make interesting connections to other articles", which I'm trying to do, particularly within the range of early South Australian history, something probably still under-represented in Wikipedia. Doug butler (talk) 12:42, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * On the Wigg article, I see what you mean. I would make a poor genealogist however, as I seldom go past the second generation or record the odd child who died young, unless it was during one of Adelaide's several typhoid periods or coincident with the mother's death (which was distressingly common). I find relationships (including marriages) to Wiki-notables worth recording, and deaths on famous (for Australians) battlefields, and marriages within families, which in a young and highly stratified society as Adelaide was in the 1800s, interesting and instructive, and probably others will too.Doug butler (talk) 13:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I may be alone, and people outside Australia would understandably have no interest, but I find these histories more relevant than celebrity weddings and beddings, or the succession of drummers in the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. They would have to be close on the scale of lasting importance, to paraphrase the Reader's Digest. Doug butler (talk) 13:59, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I just visited Teahouse, and must take issue with your criticism of the article being under-referenced. I reckon every assertion in the article is covered by one or other of the refs, and though with a businessman with multiple interests keeping a narrative going is not easy, it doesn't look to me too bad at all. Certainly not to the point of deletion and starting over. Doug butler (talk) 14:13, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I will not be doing any editing on any Australia-related articles. What I wrote is my opinion, not my intention for action. David notMD (talk) 14:29, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and apologies for the long and discursive ramble. I'm still smarting over public accusations that English was not my native tongue (as if that were a sin), that (inter alia) the place-maker for another article of mine in userspace consisted of twelve words, and that I'd mistakenly used a Lira symbol for the British (and Aussie pre-1966) pound (₤ for £). Doug butler (talk) 14:49, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Good catch
With the honourable/honorary mistake. I think I just copied "honourable constable" off the source without thinking about it at the time. I've now informed the website owners of their error. Cheers. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 00:35, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * My pleasure, and thanks for the note. Doug butler (talk) 00:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Lynn Foster
Thank you - for some reason those links didn't seem to be found when I tried linking to the players and the association. You rock. I appreciate it.  &#9749;  Antiqueight  chatter 23:08, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Wow! You've made my day! thank you. Doug butler (talk) 23:13, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Patti Crocker
Doug Thanks for making contact. I know nothing about Patricia Anne Crocker (b.1929) accept what I’m learning since seeing that you had added her as an old girl of Meriden. Trove as always is being very helpful. Apart from her work as a radio actress she had a career on TV with a two year stint on Number 96 and numerous Crawford Productions roles. I added the City of Sydney Eisteddfod information only because that information was included in an “Australian” review of her radio book. The one article seemed to tick a few boxes in terms of notability and referencing. I can’t find any reference to her as a Meriden girl but presumably you have that in whatever biographical reference you have. I’ll leave it all to you but I’m very interested to see what you write. Cheers Castlemate (talk) 02:23, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Doug She seems to be known as Patricia Crocker in her early career so although she ends up as Patti I suggest her bio should be under the name Patricia. Castlemate (talk) 02:33, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Done. Doug butler (talk) 09:48, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your agreement on the change of name for Meriden. I hope you don’t mind that I’ve changed her dob to 1929 but as that is the date used by the National Library/Trove I don’t think we need a circa date. Given that dob I’m not sure that your Trove reference for her Leaving Certificate is correct. I can’t find her name under Meriden for that year and I think she is then too old for the Leaving. Would you mind double checking that? Cheers Castlemate (talk) 05:04, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Congrats on her mum's details. As for the Leaving Certificate, its in the ref cited, on p.14 under "private study": "Crocker, P. A., 1A 10B 18B 19B 29B." Yes, a little old if she was born in 1929, another (albeit flimsy) nail in that coffin, but a secondary source Trumps an autobiography. Doug butler (talk) 06:12, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I’ll have to get hold of her memoir and read it. I know from experience that Meriden will be of no use. I wish we had a married name to help flush out her whereabouts and her husband and son. She could very well still be alive. Castlemate (talk) 03:31, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I had seen that Sutherland Historical Society Newsletter, with details of her death, days ago but hadn’t looked carefully enough at it to see her death details. How did you come across Radio Days in the first place? Hopefully someone will now help with her full DOB. Castlemate (talk) 23:24, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Revert
Are you confident in restoring this unsourced content back to the article? El_C 08:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the query. I would delete it if I thought it was fraudulent, but not because there is no article. Doug butler (talk) 08:09, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I disagree — I would add the template to the user's talk page if they continued adding this non-article to a list that includes only existing articles (though a redlink with a ref is fine). El_C 08:12, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It didn't take long to check the name's authenticity. Someone may write an article one day, who knows? Doug butler (talk) 08:38, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Doug. I appreciate your diligence. El_C 08:39, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Just assumed good faith and took less than 10 seconds on Google. Doug butler (talk) 08:50, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, myself, I subscribe to personal responsibility (i.e. WP:PROVEIT). El_C 09:00, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * "The encyclopedia anyone can edit." Presumably without going through a thousand pages of how-tos and policy. If newbies add something they think important it's up to oldies to nudge it into shape where possible.Doug butler (talk) 20:39, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Edward Collinson


The article Edward Collinson has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "No sources that indicate its notability. Fails to comply with GNG."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. WikiAviator (talk) 06:47, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Page on George Mayo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mayo

Hi - can you take a look at this page? It says that "Maria had been William Light's housekeeper and common-law wife from the days of the brig Rapid or earlier, nursed him in his final days, and was the sole beneficiary of his will." But I don't think that can be correct, as he died many years after her, and married Ellen Russell after Maria's death.

I have no idea about how to flag something, so hopefully this finds its way to your attention!

Didn't want to edit it myself, as you obviously have subject matter knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.239.38 (talk) 09:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing this page to my attention. I made a little chart to see what the discrepancy was, and found one piece of information (date of Mayo-Russell marriage) was missing, now added.
 * William Light died 6 October 1839
 * George Mayo married Maria Gandy 7 July 1840
 * Maria Gandy died 14 December 1847
 * George Mayo married Ellen Anne Russell 19 February 1852
 * George Mayo died 16 December 1894
 * Ellen Anne Russell died 21 July 1901
 * and can't see the problem. Please jog me if I've missed something. Doug butler (talk) 12:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Adelaide Meetup 22
Meetup 22 has been hastily arranged for this evening, spread the word! Alex Sims (talk) 21:41, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Hughes (surname)
Hello Doug butler,

you removed Spencer Hughes at the site named above. From my point of view that's not correct, because the red link I used I found at the description of the picture in LS3/5A-article. (Nobody cared about this and) it makes sense to use the same link, doesn't it? Beside it contains a good description. I hope we'll find a reasonable/ wise solution. I'm not interested in an edit war. Kind regards, Wikisympathisant (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * An interesting character, and have improved links and reference to him in the LS3 article. Doug butler (talk) 22:34, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello Doug butler, I wrote or started to write this article Spencer Hughes (audio engineer). I would be happy, if you visit this site. Kind regards, Wikisympathisant (talk) 19:13, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Reply on your talk page. Doug butler (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Metters Matters
Firstly, thanks very much for you kind gesture with regards to my Metters soccer edit. With my research in that matter I found this classy pic. Further to that, the Sydney Morning Herald archives have an advertorial over several pages for the company: March 30, 1965, p. 21 ff, also interesting: Friday, July 10, 1964, P. 9 (those should be accessible with your NLA acct.). More nice bits: 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Cheers, and all my best wishes to you in these interesting times. Oalexander (talk) 05:47, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

"Chris Wood (disambiguuation)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Chris Wood (disambiguuation). Since you had some involvement with the Chris Wood (disambiguuation) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC  678  19:14, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Stewart Cockburn bio
Dear Doug,

I wanted to thank you for creating the article on Stewart Cockburn. My name is Jennifer Cockburn, his second daughter. I have been working on a biography of my father for the last 10 years (ok, so I'm slow), and am currently revising the manuscript and planning to get it published by 2021, the centenary of his birth. The biography is an account of his life, focusing on his career in journalism, and using a rich trove of primary source documents - his letters and diaries in particular - as well as interviews with former colleagues, family and friends. I have tried to be as objective as possible in writing about my father. It has been a fascinating project.

I had been planning to write a Wikipedia entry for my father, and had drafted something a while back, but all the Wikipedia rules and tools were somewhat intimidating. So when I decided finally to get going on it this past week, lo and behold, I discovered there was a new entry for Stewart Cockburn! I recognized your name, as I discovered your article on my grandfather earlier in the year, and had made one minor edit (my father's birth year). I'm very grateful that you have written these two articles - better that they were initiated by someone who is not a relation.

The edits I made this week (under my user name Jefco19) were primarily to add some more factual material about his life and career, to clarify some references and to make a few minor corrections of fact. Overall, though, I thought you did a great job of covering the key aspects of his career in journalism. I will have a few more changes - including adding more third-party sources as I get more comfortable with the editing process.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you and to introduce myself and my connection to Stewart Cockburn, for transparency's sake. (I haven't quite figured out how to do that publicly yet. If you have a suggestion, I would appreciate that.)

Jefco19 (talk) 21:20, 12 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you Jennifer for your high praise, mostly undeserved. I appreciated the corrections you made, and had guessed at their source — your pseudonym helped! Stewart was a significant figure in South Australian journalism, and I had come across his name in connection with Jeff Manning, and I have (barely opened) copies of his Salisbury Affair, South Australian place names and Oliphant. He had, as you know, a reputation for invention where hard facts are lacking, and I have found one such instance in the early chapters of that last, thanks to Trove.
 * I too am intimidated by Wikipedia rules, and have no experience with Conflict of Interest, but see no harm and much good in corrections of fact such as you made, however I'd recommend talking to @User:Kerry Raymond as someone who knows her stuff.
 * Good luck with the book; I'll contact Colin and Mary for a copy when it comes out. Doug butler (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Solomon family for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Solomon family is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Solomon family until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. CutOffTies (talk) 18:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Solomon family for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Solomon family is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Solomon family& until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Hog Farm Bacon 04:25, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Hugh Champion de Crespigny
Hi - Thanks for your edits to this article. Please can you add some citations as required by WP:CITE. Thanks. Dormskirk (talk) 17:12, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your edits
Hi Doug. Thank you for the recent edits you've made to the Melrose page. I've been building up the article for a uni assignment and your edits - especially your contributions to the 'Origins of Melrose's name' section - have been immensely helpful. --Alexa Julia (talk) 02:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Special:Diff/994346766
After having a look at MOS:INSTITUTIONS, I think that either usage is technically correct and carries semantically different meanings. I won't carry out the change again but I think that either capitalisation is acceptable, and is generic as opposed to shortening. — &thinsp;J947 ‡ message ⁓ edits 01:05, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was unsure of MOS, but I have to do a double-take when confronted with ordinary words when used as a shorthand reference to a previously named institution. I remember one sentence where "union" could have had two mutually antagonistic meanings. And I have used "Will" (as in legacy) to avoid confusion. Doug butler (talk) 03:01, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Re: James Wilson Jr.
Re your message: The article I deleted back in 2016 was not about the Australian rules footballer. It was an article about a non-notable YouTuber. It was also not written by you. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:46, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Re your message: I checked your deleted edits for 2016 and I don't see anything related to James Wilson Jr., though I do see you wrote the article about his father James Wilson (trainer) in 2017. Are you sure you wrote an article about him? -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Aha. You solved the problem for me. The son has a little bio on the father's page. Thanks again. Doug butler (talk) 06:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Lamshed family
Hi Doug. Do you have a family interest in Henry Lamshed or was that article just part of a project to complete SA politicians?

There is a section about the Thomas Lamshed family in the article, and an HTML comment wondering who was Samuel Lamshed. As far as I can tell, Samuel was the father of both Henry and Thomas, and several other Lamshed/Lambshead men and women who all ended up in South Australia, on at least four different ships in the 1850s and 1860s. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a Lamshed family history book, even though they appear in several other family history books as they have married into bits of both my wife's and my extended families. Samuel doesn't seem to have an obituary to tie them all together either, but this article says that he was Henry's father and had many children to support him (and his wife) in 1873. --Scott Davis Talk 00:53, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Can't remember why I picked on Lamshed; probably wondering how Max Lamshed was related (I have Monty in my library), but definitely not part of any plan as you suggest. Doug butler (talk) 01:36, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting that Samuel was refused sustenance: there's a reference to sons being expected to support impecunious parents in Adelaide Destitute Asylum recently made public by the harmless drudge Doug butler (talk) 01:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Copyright problem: Will Ashton
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Will Ashton, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images from either web sites or printed works. This article appears to contain work copied from https://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ashton-sir-john-william-will-5071, and therefore to constitute a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policies. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with our copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators are liable to be blocked from editing.

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Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Moneytrees🏝️Talk/CCI help 03:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Mtrees! Thanks for pointing out problems with an article I started and is still substantially as I left it. Quite a surprise actually, as I always considered myself diligent in avoiding direct copy (and take great pleasure in falsifying — in the Popperian sense — ADB and other sources) so I did a little backtracking on the history of the article, particularly looking for two phrases which are clearly influenced by ADB: Upon graduating Ashton entered the life of an artist and enabled him to marry May Millman. I find neither was in the article after my edit of 30 November 2009 and both present 1 February 2010 before i re-entered the fray. So I can breathe a little sigh of relief mea non culpa. Doug butler (talk) 12:30, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Moves
Hi. I took care of your request at WP:RM/TR, but just wanted you to know, in case you don't already, that you should be able to do these kinds of moves yourself. As long as there is not more than one edit at the redirect that points back to the article to be moved, any autoconfirmed editor should be able to move that article over the redirect. Station1 (talk) 00:42, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Doug butler (talk) 00:48, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

FYI
FYI, I took the lifespan dates out of Rex Wood and Noel Wood again, as a) they aren't really necessary and b) they are not mentioned in the source that you restored. I discovered these articles via WP:COIN, as a family member created them and was maintaining them to her preferred version. Ergo: those dates came from family memory, which is definitely not RS. Thanks. Possibly (talk) 08:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The View History tells all:, my last edit of five years ago has all the stuff you deleted. Doug butler (talk) 08:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Well that is a good thing they have come out because you did not provide sources for the dates. if you can find a source feel free to restore them. Possibly (talk) 08:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You've been here 13 years and have close to 100K edits. You know that challenged claims need sources. Why are you continuing to add fates for family lifespans without sources? The source given here (the one with mining in the title) does not mention any of the family. You have not provided proper sourcing for any of the date-related edits you've made. I don't get it. I've opened a talk page discussion at the article.  Possibly (talk) 09:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Nutter Thomas
Hi Doug,

No I was not objecting because Nutter Thomas makes him sound like a fellow inmate of Mark "Chopper" Read. In the UK we had a famous tailor called Tommy Nutter, that was his real surname. Apologies for my well intentioned re direct. We had a very enthusiastic editor who redirected Cosmo Gordon Lang, the name by which he is known during his life and now, to Cosmo Lang. Bashereyre (talk) 13:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
 * My attempt at humor. Not much, but it's better than being grumpy. Doug butler (talk) 18:46, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

nomograms and other historical technical tools
I was interested that you edited the nomogram page in Wikipedia recently.

I am interested in technical tools like this. I’m rather like a steam engine fan. Interested in the technology, but not getting my hands dirty.

I saw the nomogram page has links to software that in principle allows someone to create and use nomograms. However, when investigated those tools, they used obsolete technologies so were of limited practical use.

This must now a common problem when describing technical tools with online implementations.

Do you know of any groups looking at ways of doing something useful to keep such tools available or generally stop these tools disappearing into oblivion. I think they would be the online equivalent of steam engine enthusiasts.

They would have to be quite careful in what they found, recreated and supported since the historical technologies often moved quickly and the modern tools to access them will do as well I guess.

Any thoughts on this matter?

Regards Mark CuriousMarkE (talk) 03:22, 9 June 2021 (UTCHi


 * Hi Mark; No leads to offer, sorry. Out of the thousands of special interest groups out there, there must be one, but I wouldn't know where to start. Wikipedia doesn't have a technology help desk, more's the pity. I'm not on Facebook, but my handler is, and she gets (and gives) lots of useful support that way. Doug butler (talk) 04:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

afterwardss
I had noticed the problem with my AWB edits (example) and started reverting them, but it looks like you beat me to it. Thanks. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:57, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No worries, I hope you'd do the same for me. Doug butler (talk) 00:59, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Memories of South Australia
I enjoy your memories of South Australia. Who'd have guessed they refer to bikes as pushbikes in Oz. How come you don't wl these? Cracker Night, jumping jacks, pughole etc. Suit and tie in scorching hot Australia - yuk. Slight Smile 13:46, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Funny that you should think memories of Oz when I was writing memories of the '50s. We were terribly British in those days. Hornby and Matchbox; Beano and Eagle; Ging Gang Gooly and the Goons. My first workplaces were modelled on BPO and BBC and our PM was an unashamed bootstrap-tugging Royalist. Thanks for the note. Doug butler (talk) 14:21, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Meritt -v- Merritt
Thank you for your change chez Augustus Harris. My sources gave the other spelling, but on looking into the matter I find they were wrong and you right, so many thanks.  Tim riley  talk   13:24, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

"David Thorne disambiguation)" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect David Thorne disambiguation). The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 27 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.

(If you would like to db-author it to speed the process up, you have my blessing.) Narky Blert (talk) 15:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Mme Weigel
Not sure whether you saw Landline on weekend. Anyway, thanks for being ahead of the game and getting the article in place. :-) 139.218.28.225 (talk) 00:52, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Haha Thanks! Ten years ago we preempted publication of a serious book (Adelaide Educational Institution v. Adelaide's Dissenting Headmaster), but it's been a long time between drinks. ;-) Doug butler (talk) 01:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Rowe
I'm unwatching the article now. Good luck with it, and let me know if you want me to look in on anything in the future. All the best, and happy editing! -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * All good. Thanks for the constructive edits. Doug butler (talk) 07:13, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Maureen Wroblewitz
Hello. Can you help me develop this article quality? Xuyen1 (talk) 02:24, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Are you for real? It's already better than I could do, and the subject matter is out of my comfort zone. Doug butler (talk) 02:44, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Robert Morrow (educator)


A tag has been placed on Robert Morrow (educator) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people that does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 06:24, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Will not contest. Doug butler (talk) 06:49, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

wow
I didntthinkanyone cared about project assessment - it is so studiously avoided by so many - please reduce it - it goes to whatever your would prefer - as the 1k unnassessed australian articles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Australia_articles show the project diligence and duty of care so clearly, - thanks - please change JarrahTree 14:37, 21 October 2021 (UTC)


 * cripes wash your mouth out - infoboxes cause more angst than anything - I avoid at all possible encounters, head in sand and mumble appropriate swear words and walk the other way, not necessarily in that order or magnitude.


 * Re the curtain image - I have honestly not encountered the oddity of the NC part - but the basic intent of the licensing is CC with attribution essential. As a usual suspect at commons - I would say the picture is usable, but dont quote me - its a jungle in there... for that matter this place is too.
 * Good to see you are round and still at it, things get so quiet in some parts these days.. JarrahTree 15:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I talk to the bots. That's why they put me away. TaSM. Doug butler (talk) 20:25, 21 October 2021 (UTC)


 * teehee its better the bots than most of the internees here, have a gorilla.JarrahTree 14:30, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No thanks; I'll have one of mine. Doug butler (talk) 20:02, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

M. Dind
Hi Doug. Thanks for all your work on this article. We might find his full name one day!  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 10:06, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages in a list article
I saw your comment on Debartolo2917's talkpage. You may be interested in this discussion I have just started: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Disambiguation. If it is standard practice, then so be it, but it would be good to know. SilkTork (talk) 13:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi ST! Thanks for the note; I'm still trying to get my head around the Melanie Bernier hndis syntax, which is new to me. It seems very clever but for small dab groups not a patch on a designated main article with a hatnote or two, which has several advantages, not the least being its intuitivity (?!) for less clever editors such as Doug butler (talk) 20:42, 6 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The discussion has moved now to the development of a new template which is more intuitive. Your input to the discussion would be valued. SilkTork (talk) 11:02, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Askari (film) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Askari (film) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Askari (film) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. The Film Creator (talk) 07:22, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Eucalyptus (film)
Hello, Doug butler. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Eucalyptus (film), a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy new year
The R T Robinson ref - (although discursive vis a vis goldfield journo of the era) has a very good goldfields appraisal of a land developer in perth becoming a mines minister - and he looks worthy of an article as well! Happy new year - its great to see your intrepid content work continue. JarrahTree 02:43, 7 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Perth is hot - and doesnt help - apologies for cryptic style...

R T and the nuances of the goldfields journalism are such might have suggested something - but I hadnt realised there was an existing article either... keep up the good work! JarrahTree 07:13, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Sol Green
Hi, Doug butler sounds like the modern day racing jurisdiction on course betting steward where everyone is licenced but back then in England and a general 'Free for all' the term 'Enforcer' with a reputation may have been appropriate. Cheers LESHAIGH (talk) 02:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

John Acraman
Hi Doug, thanks for your message on my talk page. I am still very much a rookie but trying my best to learn!

Regarding the Briars/Briers on the John Acraman page. I appreciate the spelling in the reference, however know the correct spelling to be 'Briars' (the house being located on Briar Avenue in Medindie). Would the State Library of SA suffice as a Reliable Source? This particular link has both the house's name and links it to the owner which could justify linking George Charles Hawker, if it is appropriate?

Thanks for your help :) --BriRisch (talk) 07:30, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Addit - this source places Acraman at the Briars! --BriRisch (talk) 10:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm convinced! I see that picture is already on Wikimedia Commons and being used in List of historic houses in South Australia. You could paste that link into the article. Just replace the expression "100px" with the word "thumb" (without quotes) and the bar symbol (|) and add a caption. Doug butler (talk) 10:22, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Pursuing this question to stupid lengths, I did some Trove searches on SA newspapers, restricted to Family Notices, to reduce the influence of editors' preferences, and hopefully the compositor set it in type the way the family member wrote it.
 * "BRIARS" v. "BRIERS"
 * 1850–59: 0 .......... 5
 * 1860–69: 0 .......... 18
 * 1870–79: 9 .......... 1
 * 1880–89: 3 .......... 0
 * 1890–99: 18 ......... 0
 * Conclusion: Spelled "Briers" in the early days. Definitely "Briars" when the Acramans were tenants. Cheers, Doug butler (talk) 11:50, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Surname lists
Hi Doug, sorry, but I reverted your reversion, not only because of the style issue, but because your reversion removed content that I'd added. I cannot find an explicit rule, but have seen it discussed somewhere, and all of the surname list pages using the Surname template don't repeat names already included on the disambiguation pages linked to. This may be a case for adding to the style manual somewhere, but I was just following common practice I'd seen on many other pages. The obvious drawback to listing some names under the DAB link is that its comprehensiveness unlikely and unknown. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:45, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologies for removing any additions of yours; thoughtless of me. I have brought up the subject from time to time, as the lack of a complete listing in surname pages has cost me hours (literally). I am frequently confronted with a such as J. Bloggs who's an Australian architect, or worse still, Justice Bloggs or Rev. Bloggs, and don't know behind what name the article is hiding, if it exists at all. Of course no index is perfect, and a complete list of Smiths or Browns would be a nightmare, but nothing is lost and much is gained by having no hidden entries, even of two or three hundred lines. I can't see any advantage in suppressing information like that, even in database memory, as previous versions or diffs at least, are retained.
 * PS. I noticed last week, when searching for one C. Parker, a NSW MHR, that in Parker (surname) under Charles Parker (disambiguation), that someone had added the lone Charlie Parker, jazz musician. Didn't help me, but would have helped many others.
 * PPS. Nice work on Menz. Doug butler (talk) 04:30, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * No worries - the mention of it was right at the end of my edit summary so not prominent. (I rarely make style changes just for the sake of them - usually something that I do along the way when I'm making a change to the content, but sometimes soon afterwards.) If you want to add the others back I won't revert, because I don't feel that strongly about it - but will add a comment to that talk page shortly. I do understand your reasoning.
 * Thanks! The Menz thing was going to be a simple name change, but it grew (the story of my editing life on Wikipedia!) and I did wonder about leaving both "strands" in the same article, but I think that people can find their way there via redirects and decided on balance probably better all in one place. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:44, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

koala and KI
You have added a lot of information I had to find elsewhere, cheers for that. A point that is not made clear in the articles is the fluctuation in the 20C distribution range that resulted from some to no predation, then overharvesting for skins and near local extinction, then reintroduction and introduction to areas in Victoria and SA (as with the East coast) where the overbrowsing of preferred Eucalyptus species can result in boom-and-bust numbers. What I haven't been able to find, perhaps because it is not determinable, is the impact of the genetic bottlenecks created by the "marooned" island populations, whereas the source of chlamydiosis can be identified in those colonies. ~ cygnis insignis 15:03, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it was an interesting challenge, but genetic diversity is beyond my pay scale. Likewise I haven't thought about chlamydia, but chanced on a reference to the Cleland reserve population being uniquely free of the disease and didn't realise it was rife in KI. Another sticking point is why the SA vets were giving the boy koalas the snip. Equal opportunity gone mad or is there something I'm missing? Doug butler (talk) 20:13, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

List of Australian artists
Per this edit: please note, artists on this list have to meet the minimum notability of having a Wikipedia article. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 14:03, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Did you check Six Directions ? Doug butler (talk) 14:05, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Entries have to have an article, not be mentioned somewhere. Please see Write the article first. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 14:13, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Noticed that you were creating artist articles, please note that artists need to pass WP:ARTIST to be in Wikipedia. They don't seem to be meeting that yet but there is always room for expansions. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 16:54, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

koala conservation error
There's a citation error in the article what you should fix. LittleJerry (talk) 13:23, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Cumbrae Stewarr
Hi Doug. Just wanted to contact you regarding the hypen inserted in to Janet Cumbrae Stewart's name and let you know that she dropped the hypen soon after adding 'Cumbrae' to her nane for professional reasons. I am unable to correct the page heading as i am new to Wikipedia but hoped you might consider doing so. Sincerely. Lainie LainieEdwards (talk) 01:11, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Lainie. I was going by the McCulloch reference, but the Australian Dictionary of Biography is quite clear, and you are right. Thank you. Doug butler (talk) 02:17, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Thomas Slaney Poole - query re misogyny statement
Hello Doug, thank you for your work on Wikipedia. Would you please insert a reference for your statement about Mr Justice Poole's 'Notorious misogyny'? And why 'notorious'? I can't find any references to this in my limited sources. Thank you. Plumbago23 (talk) 05:07, 7 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi Plumbago23. Thank you for bringing this assertion to my attention. I can't say it was untrue, but certainly unsupported. I've been through the article's history and pinpointed when I wrote it but no clue emerged as to where it came from and I have no hesitation in removing what is possibly the only time I've used either word. Doug butler (talk) 10:01, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

my apology
I am sorry a number of conditions prevented an intelligent reply, in the short term... most of the day was away from the dreaded internet and I feel better for the fact (it could also be after the fact) JarrahTree 11:33, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

moves done
See this Dr. Vogel (talk) 21:51, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 9
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Dynasty (Australian TV series), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page John Tate.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:03, 9 May 2022 (UTC)