User talk:Dovea

Welcome!

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Citing sources
Hello, I see you have created several articles on British MPs recently but none of them cite their sources. Please see Verifiability and Citing sources for more information. KFP 17:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

On all those MP articles
All those MP articles are fine, and its good to see you are starting to add the source. I assume you are not just copying the text. Just a couple of points. Can you expand the citation to the style in WP:CITE, it would look like
 * Smith, J. How to cite your sources, Random House, 2005. ISBN 1607000X

Please find the subjects usual form of address and use that as the title of the article, rather than the full name, something like the Angela Knight page. Likewise, wikilinks and categories are nice. It is just so much easier for you to add things in at creation than it is later. Anyway, great stuff, and good wiki'ing! Mr Stephen 18:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

In realtion to the UK MP articles. Please consider using an appropriate stub tag, also Wikilinking to the relavnt parties and constituences would be very much appreicated. :-) ShakespeareFan00 14:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Roy Hughes
Hi, Dovea, I (massively) expanded your stub on Roy Hughes. Let me know what you think, especially as I am not British and therefore might have misunderstood some crucial detail. I decided to expand the list because I had read his obituary in the Daily Telegraph. I reccomend those obits much more than the obits for the Guardian or the Times. Cheers V. Joe 09:04, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Cross References
In the text of articles, please put in cross-references wherever meaningful, eg for ministerial positions, the main towns in constituency names, years, including birth years and death years, any people mentioned, etc, etc. You may also wish to add relevant categories. Also note that WP articles normally mark up in bold the first mention in the main text of the article's subject. Compare, eg this page for Archie Hamilton, for a fully 'wikified' entry.

But thanks for all the work you're doing on these very useful articles! -- Jheald 20:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC).


 * Ditto Jhead's comment above. Thanks. --Richhoncho 11:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

'''I am sure those sending the above messages will appreciate I am a new Wikipedian and still need to familiarise myself with many of the things you are asking me to do - I am still learning. Thank you for your patience.''' Dovea 18/6/06


 * For a pointer, why don't you have a look at the changes made subsequent to you starting the new page Angela Rumbold? All the tools you need are at the top of the posting box. The more linkage the more use the article. --Richhoncho 19:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Layout of articles
Hi, I noticed that you have created quite a lot of articles of various polticians - good work. But, it would be great if you could Wikify them and provide Categories - thus making it easier for folk browsing the encyclopedia to find them. Forbsey 17:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

More on MP articles
Dovea, welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for your contributions. I am glad that you are eager to learn how things work here. There is a lot to learn, and other Wikipedians should be patient with you. Everyone makes newbie mistakes. I would just add two notes: Keep up the great work, and don't worry about making mistakes -- everyone does, and all is forgiven. Ground Zero | t 22:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The House of Commons article is a general article about Houses of Commons in general, i.e., in the UK, Canada, Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland. The people about whom you are writing were member sof the British House of Commons, so it is probably better to link to that article.
 * 2) The standard style for using an acronym is to spell it out the first time you use it with the acronym in brackets after it, e.g., so-and-so was elected Member of Parliament (MP) for Flydale North". That way, you let readers who are not familiar with the acronym "MP" (those outside of the UK and Canada) know what you are writing about. American readers, for example, may assume that MP means "Military Police" and be quite confused.

Similarly, the Labour and Conservative links do not take the reader to articles about the Labour Party and the COnservative Party, which is what you intend. Please use Labour Party (UK) and Conservative Party (UK) for the reader's benefit. Thank you. Also, it is not necessary to link years. Complete dates (e.g., 31 December 2005 or June 12 1998) are linked in order to enable user preferences. more information can be found at WP:DATE. Ground Zero | t 21:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Still more on MP stubs..
Some suggestions.

Please use a, it helps other editors find the articles.

Also please consider when adding constituency details to add them as for example Brent South , as in some locations the place and the constituency are not synonomus..

Thanks User:ShakespeareFan00 07:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

double article
Where's the other article about Graham Page?--Kchase02 T 11:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Under Rodney Graham Page. --Dovea 17:58, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, someone's put up merge tags. Do you know which name he's better known as?--Kchase02 T 19:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sir Graham Page. --Dovea 16:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Linking articles
At Talk:MPs elected in the United Kingdom general election, 1983 you mention that you are not sure how to link articles. There's an explanation at Piped link, but basically where you would normally just put the name of the page between the double square brackets you instead put the real name of the page followed by a | followed by the name to display. Hard to explain in words, but have a look at the changes I've made to your Frank McElhone page to create links to the constituency articles such as Glasgow Gorbals. It'll soon become second nature--George Burgess 18:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks George. --Dovea 16:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Liberal Democrat
Well done for your work on British MPs. I have been going through them and tidying up, adding categories and links. One thing that I've noticed is that you have consistently referred to SDP defectors and Liberals as now being Liberal Democrat politicians, yet your references are all pre-1988. Unless you have clear evidence of them playing an active role in the Lib Dems after they left parliament, I suggest you don't infer - they may have re-joined Labour or stayed in the continuing SDP or Liberals, or dropped out altogether.

Incidentally, you may find it helpful to take a tidied article and use it as a template for new ones - you can just change the names, dates and parties in many cases. That would help you create better articles in the first place that can be more easily found by other editors working on MPs. I have a footer template I am using at User:Mtiedemann/Useful items and you could consider creating something similar for your own work.

Well done again, Mtiedemann 17:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message. I have Times 1929 to 1955, and 1966, so have been adding occasionally. Except for the 1966 book, they miss things like forenames and personal details, so not as useful for a full article. I would be very grateful for the info on Idris Owen from the 1974 books, as he was a friend of my mother. Perhaps you can type it out on my talk page for me, or send it to my email using the link, or expand the article. It would be much appreciated. I'm also interested in Labour Co-operative MPs; I've seen you've flagged a few of those already and it would be helpful to know if you have been doing that each time so that I can add them to the list at List of Labour Co-operative Members of Parliament. Again, thanks and well done, Martín (saying/doing) 19:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

William Hamling
Thank you for updating William Hamling: it's appreciated. Nunquam Dormio 21:47, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. --Dovea 10:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

MPs by Parliament
I have made a suggestion for how to categorise MPs by Parliament: see Category talk:British_MPs, and would welcome your comments. --BrownHairedGirl 21:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

And that category system has now been nominated for deletion. See CFD for category:MPs of the United Kingdom House of Commons, by Parliament and subcategories. Your comments would be welcome. --BrownHairedGirl 17:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Willie Hamilton
You made an edit to this article stating he came 3rd in South Hams. Do you have a citation for this? It seems odd as South Hams is a district council, not a constituency. Catchpole 21:13, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

It´s on Times Guide to the House of Commons 1987. It was a constituency before the 1997 boundary changes. --Dovea 16:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Category:Supporters of the British Conservative Party
Hi - I hope this finds you well! Just a polite note of caution re your addition of a category called Supporters of the British Conservative Party. I can see where you are trying to come from, but what constitutes a supporter of the British Conservative party? Have they: made a speach; donated money (if so, how much); carry a membership card; come out and said "I'm a conservative" - all of the above and more? And what happens if they then come out later and reverse one/all of the criteria and support someone else? Also, wouldn't all the other parties also need such a category if you could define what "membership" was? Such undefined criteria lead to the categories often being removed as being unencyclopedic, as its difficult/impossible to define clearly who fits in. I hope you can define this/reference all against the criteria before you go through a lot of work. Best Regards, - Trident13 16:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. The fact that those people are/were Conservatives is in fact mentioned already in the texts of the articles relating to them. I'll also point out that I've acknowledged some of them are former supporters, as the category includes former supporters (including deceased ones). Sir John Mills, for example, has supported both the Tories and Labour. I have also done the same for Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the SNP and Plaid Cymru. --Dovea 16:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Dovea, as per Trident13's note above, I'm afraid that this category is just too ill-defined to be useful, and that the same applies to its equivalents for the other parties.

See: CFD for Supporters of the British Liberal Democrats. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have therefore nominated all three categories for deletion.


 * Ooops! I mean all five categories. I had missed out  and . --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)


 * Thanks, BrownHairedGirl. Not all users have the courtesy to inform creators of categories that their categories are up for deletion.  I have of course added a keep comment but I won't be creating a category again - I'm having no luck with them and I will from now on stick to creating political articles. Dovea 18:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Category: Living Centenarians
Greetings, I don't think it's a good idea to put persons 110+ in the category 'living centenarians.' First off, they are already in their elite category, 'supercentenarians' (persons 110+). Putting them into 'centenarians' is like listing Roger Clemens as a 'living minor league ball player.' Sure, he played minor league baseball, but is that what he is really known for? How about 'major league Hall of Famer' instead.

→ R Young {yak ł talk } 20:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that feedback, but I haven't actually done that myself. --Dovea 20:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

If you're interested in more 'survivors of the 19th century,' check this page out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surviving_veterans_of_World_War_I

→ R Young {yak ł talk } 01:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. --Dovea 10:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I created Surviving silent film actors. My original idea back in January was for the thing to be a list, but I switched to categories as they had been preferred. I'm hoping this will be safe due to the article Surviving veterans of World War I being okay. I know you might be annoyed with me CfDing the cat, but like I said I figured it was soon to be chopped anyway.--T. Anthony 13:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not annoyed with you at all, T.Anthony. It's the policy that should be changed: I've added my thoughts on this issue on the Categories for discussion page. Dovea 19:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Derek Page
Hi, only a little information. I have merged Derek Page (the stub you had created) into Derek Page, Baron Whaddon. Best wishes Phoe  talk 17:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Good, thanks. Dovea 18:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

link to British
Hello. Thank you for your recent edit to James MacColl and William Griffiths (politician). Your edit included one or more links to the page British, which is a disambiguation page. This type of page is intended to direct users to more specific topics. Ordinarily we try to avoid creating links to disambiguation pages, since it is preferable to link directly to the specific topic relevant to the context. You can help Wikipedia by revising links to British to refer directly to the most relevant topic such as United Kingdom by typing British. Regards, -- Jeff3000 16:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks Jeff. Dovea 19:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

New stub articles on MPs
Hi Dovea

Well done ceating all those new articles on MPs. However, I hope you will excuse me for pointing out a few things which you could improve:

This is a really imprtant thing to do, because it helps to trace the article by using whatlinks here (see for example: Whatlinkshere:Banffshire (UK Parliament constituency): William Duthie doesn't link there, so he's not listed.
 * Please link to the constituency article
 * It's easy to do so: every constituency is named with the suffix "(UK Parliament constituency)". So if you want to link to Banffshire, just type Banffshire (UK Parliament constituency) . (There's a handy trick there: if you have an article name which ends with something in parentheses, then if you put a "|" after it wikipedia automatically completes the link by adding the first part of the name, like this: Banffshire (UK Parliament constituency) ... which appears as Banffshire.


 * Use the correct stub
 * It's great that you have been adding the UK-MP-stub template, but it's much better to use the party-specific stub: Conservative-UK-MP-stub, Labour-UK-MP-stub or Liberal-UK-MP-stub (the Liberal one obviously only for Liberals, not Liberal Democrats).

Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback BrownHairedGirl. Dovea 15:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Reginald Moss
Thanks for all your work on former MPs. However, I think I have to deprive you of one of the surviving MPs over the age of 90, Reginald Moss (UK politician). I'm guessing that you spotted on Rayment's page that Moss has a birth year (1913) but no death year given. I also looked him up in Stenton and Lees' "Who's Who of British MPs" and his entry there has an asterisk, indicating that Stenton and Lees thought him alive at the time of publication (c. 1980).

However, Reginald Moss is one of those who have left "Who's Who" without ever moving into "Who Was Who" with their date of death. I checked up on back issues of Who's Who this afternoon and found that his entry last appeared in Who's Who 1975. Normally, if an entry was removed because the subject had died, there would be a date of death in the next edition, but there is none in this case. That entry did not have a home address; a home address last appeared in his entry for 1963 (an address in Nuneaton). For a few years after that, the entry included the address of Labour Party headquarters in Coventry.

I can't find anything, other than Stenton and Lees, positively indicating that Reginald Moss was alive after 1975. He might have died before that, with no-one telling Who's Who of that fact. I did check some editions of Labour Party Annual Conference Reports, which in the 1970s has a list of deaths of Labour Party members, but could not find him there (although my set is not complete). He is not included in the Dictionary of Labour Biography. No obituary notice has ever appeared in The Times.

Rather than being WP:BOLD on this occasion I thought I would contact you first as I know you have an interest in this area. I think Reginald Moss should be moved into the Category "Year of death unknown". Sam Blacketer 18:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

OK Sam, that's fair enough - thank you. You may have noticed on Leigh Rayment's peerage pages that some MPs born before 1900 have no date of death(!) I didn't assume Reginald Moss is dead though as in theory he could have been alive at the age of 93. He hasn't been an MP for about 5 decades and perhaps for some reason he was omitted from Who's Who. I'll add a note on the discussion page. Thanks again. Dovea 12:46, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Entries used to be removed from Who's Who if the subject had been convicted of a serious criminal offence, although this is no longer the case. The subject can also ask for their entry to be removed, as Tony Benn famously did because they refused to censor the fact that he had been to private school. I wonder if Reginald Moss can be traced through alumni associations for his two universities, Birmingham and London? Sometimes universities print directories of living former students. Sam Blacketer 17:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

On this subject, do you know if Spencer Le Marchant is still living Sam? I can't find his name in the most recent Who's Who. Thanks. Dovea 13:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately Sir Spencer Le Marchant died on 7 September 1986 (aged only 55). If I remember right his decision to stand down in 1983 was prompted by ill health. Sam Blacketer 17:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks Sam, I've updated his page. Dovea 18:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you Sam - I don't know what to say! Dovea 20:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikilinking
Please do NOT create dead Wikilinks...if someone wants to create an article, they can create the link at that time.→ R Young {yak ł talk } 03:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about or what a dead wikilink is. Dovea 18:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

If you click on a box like this, longevity claims, it should go somewhere. But if you click on a 'dead' link it doesn't go anywhere.

Also, your creation of articles that are little more than stubs is actually a disservice, because it makes it look like someone has 'done the work' when no work was done. It's better to NOT have a link because then everyone knows that no one has written an article yet. If you are going to start an article, please do something with it...i.e. Elias Wen, you didn't mention that he was an Orthodox priest, was born in China of Russian parents, linked to a reference, etc. Simply stating 'eighth-oldest man' is a waste of time (the ranking is already on the 'Oldest People' list, right?).R <span style="color:#006688;font-family:arial, helvetica;">Young {<span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:x-small;">yak <span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;">ł <span style="font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:x-small;">talk } 19:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The only dead links I have created were made so I could create articles for them myself, and I believe I have done so with all of them on the Oldest people article. I didn't know about Elias Wen's background, and see no problem with creating stub articles which others can hopefully expand on. Dovea 10:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

George Francis (supercentenarian)
Hi Dovea. I'm very interested in your article on George Francis. Do you have any outside sources or links. I can't find any; and he's not listed on this website http://www.grg.org/Adams/E.HTM which is normally pretty reliable. Regards, Rrsmac 00:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. I simply saw his name on the Oldest people article and created a stub article from it. Dovea 10:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

David Cameron
Hello, you changed this article to state that he is a great something nephew of William IV- he is in fact a direct descendant. Regards Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 22:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Jack Aspinwall
Hi Dovea, I see that you created the article on Jack Aspinwall, in which you said that he was Liberal candidate for Wansbeck in 1974 ... but the Wansbeck constituency was not created until 1983. Can you check your sources? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks BrownHairedGirl. In fact he stood in Kingswood in 1974, I've amended the article. Dovea 15:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Frederick Roberts (politician)
Hi Dovea Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I have inferred from some of your edits that you may have a reasonable collection of Times Guides to the House of Commons, or other useful sources ... and I'm hoping that you may be able to help with a naming problem: Talk:Frederick Roberts (politician). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:05, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd love to help, BrownHairedGirl. Unfortunately my collection only dates back to the February 1974 edition. It would help if MPs didn't have the same name, I must admit, Lol. Sorry. Dovea 10:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of category from your userpage
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Bruce Reimers
Hey I just recently did an article on Bruce Reimers and was wanting feeback on it. You have commented on some of the articles he is a category of. Please look at the article and give some feedback and feel free to add to it as well. Thanks!

--atacker —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atacker (talk • contribs) 01:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Morgan Morgan-Giles
I think Simon Heffer must have made a mistake with Morgan Morgan-Giles, who appears still to be alive. He certainly went to a memorial service for Sir Ian McGeoch on 29 October last year. He will be 94 on June 14. Sam Blacketer (talk) 20:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Dovea! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 8 of the articles that you created  are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the list:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 19:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Gwilym Jones -
 * 2) Alan Wynne Williams -
 * 3) Wyn Roberts, Baron Roberts of Conwy -
 * 4) Ian Twinn -
 * 5) Dudley Smith -
 * 6) Allen McKay -
 * 7) Michael Welsh (Labour politician) -
 * 8) Ednyfed Hudson Davies -

Slow down on the UK Election Stubs
Whoa there... let's slow down on these UK Election stubs. Of the 9 you've created recently, they appear to be template copy-pastes that don't add a lot more than just the numbers that come off of the link you provide. Why don't you slow down and choose one to improve. Choose some of the other election articles to see a good formatting setup and possibilities for additional information. Shadowjams (talk) 03:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

I want to create some stubs on all the annual local election results from 1973 to the present. Unfortunately at present I have little to add to the information other that what is provided in the source, there being little other information available elsewhere on the subject. I hope to create pages for 1979-1989 today, and then improve the articles in the days to come.

Proposed deletion of Christopher Murphy


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 * I am nomination this article for deletion because it fails WP:BASIC by not having multiple sources: with one being a self published source and the other not being readily verifiable. It also fails WP:GNG as it does not assert the significance of this person.

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Nomination of Arbella Ewing for deletion
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Local election articles
Hello Dovea. Thanks for creating the UK local election article recently. However, they haven't been formatted correctly, so I thought I would give you a few tips: I've added the section headings and bolding to your articles, but you may wish to sort out the references. If you want a simple example, have a look at this article I created earlier. If you have any questions or need any help, please let me know. Cheers, Number   5  7  21:08, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Generally articles start with the keywords being bolded. In this case, it would usually be Local elections
 * The See also and References sections need to have proper headings. You can make these using two equal signs either side of the text, e.g. ==References==
 * The See also section should be listed before the References section.
 * Ideally your references should be "inline", i.e. directly citing the sentences that are being referenced. You can do this using the tags, and then adding reflist in the References section.

George Francis (supercentenarian) listed at Redirects for discussion
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Proposed deletion of Charles Goodson-Wickes


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Jay Ruckley moved to draftspace
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