User talk:Dpb23

Seahawks roster
Please stop removing Rich Gardner from Template:Seattle Seahawks roster. He was waived/injured, cleared waivers, and reverted to injured reserve. Also, both of those players on NFL Europa NFI are accurate. Thanks. Pats1 00:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please do not delete content from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Template:Seattle Seahawks roster. Your edits do not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use Sandbox for test edits. Thank you.. Pats1 01:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I suggest you check your facts as well. NFL Europa existed for the 2007 season, and both Lulay and McGruder were placed on the Reserve/Non-Football Injury-NFL Europa list because of injuries suffered playing in Europe in 2007. Gardner was WAIVED/INJURED in July. This is a process in the NFL where first and second year players must first pass through waivers (i.e. waived) before they can be placed on injured reserve. This is to prevent teams from "stashing" their young players with questionable injuries. I can verify these moves in several different locations:
 * Pro Football Weekly's Official NFL transaction wire for July 2007 -- "July 11: Placed on waivers: CB Rich Gardner (injured/leg); July 12: Reserve/injured: CB Rich Gardner; July 5: Placed on waivers: LB Tony Robinson (claiming deadline 7/6)."
 * Pro Football Weekly's Official NFL transaction wire for June 2007 -- "June 28: Exempt-NFLE injured: QB Travis Lulay; DT Lynn McGruder (leg); LB Tony Robinson."
 * Pro Football Weekly's Official NFL transaction wire for August 2007 -- "Aug. 28: Reserve/non-football injury-NFLE: QB Travis Lulay; DT Lynn McGruder (leg)."
 * Rich Gardner's Scout.com Profile -- "Waived/Injured by Seahawks 7/11/07 and is currently on injured reserve."
 * Sports Betting Information's NFL injured & suspended list
 * And I'm assuming you have your sources? Pats1 01:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I hate to break it to you, but Seahawks.com isn't the bible. These types of moves PR departments miss all the time, and believe me, I've seen it many times on team websites. You're completely missing the point with NFL Europa. The league was active for the 2007 spring season before it folded. Players, including Lulay and McGruder, were allocated to it for the 2007 spring season. It doesn't look like you're aware of this, but let me inform/educate you: for as long as there's been NFL Europa, there's been reserve lists known as Reserve/NFL Europa Injured or Reserve/NFL Europa Non-Football Injury -- the equivalents of the regular season NFL reserve lists, Reserve/Injured ("Injured Reserve") and Reserve/Non-Football Injury. The rules are the same for both. Players who injure themselves playing in NFL Europa (i.e. Lulay and McGruder) are placed on these lists by their respective teams. This happened with both of these players, and I have presented proof for you. If you want more proof, check out The NFLPA's active player search feature. It hasn't been updated since Friday, the last business day, so all of the players who were cut this weekend are still in it, but I urge you to type in "McGruder" or "Lulay" into the name field and change the year field to 2007. You will find that Lulay and McGruder's salaries are still on the books (something that only happens with players on reserve lists, as waived players' paragraph 5 salaries are non-guaranteed per the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Anyway, that is the case with Lulay and McGruder. They are still members of the Seahawks for the 2007 season, and will be paid their paragraph 5 salaries for the 2007 season. But like players on Injured Reserve (i.e. Tubbs), they are out for the entire 2007 season. They both have 2-year contracts starting in 2007, so you'll see both of them with the Seahawks next spring unless, of course, they are cut after the season. There are about I'd say 10 or 12 players on the Reserve/Non-Football Injury-NFL Europa list in the league this year. That's about the average for every season. The last Patriots to go on that list were Ray Ventrone, Earl Charles, and Zuriel Smith in 2006. As is the case with Lulay and McGruder, they missed all of the 2006 season before being released on consecutive days in February of 2007. I've already explained the case with Gardner. Pats1 01:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But of course, since this was the last year of Europa, we won't have to deal with any of these reserve lists come next season. Pats1 01:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Same deal with this one. As you may have noticed (or not), Seahawks.com (or, more accurately, the PR department that runs it), makes absolutely no distinction between "waived" and "released" (or the accurate term "contract terminated). Most of those players in the 9/1/2007 were actually "waived." Waived in the NFL means that a player is not a vested veteran (at least 3 or 4 accrued seasons, IIRC), and therefore this player must pass through 24-hour waivers (72-hours at some points in the offseason; there is also a waiver system change in October, but that's really irrelevant). If any team claims this player, they must accept the terms of the contract the player had with his prior team. "Released players" are those who are vested veterans and automatically become street free agents, and are free to sign with any team to any contract without having to pass through waivers. So the absence of a distinction between these two systems is a clear indicator that Seahawks.com isn't on the cutting edge when it comes to transactions. Therefore, when they saw that Rich Gardner was "waived/injured," they probably figured that he was waived -- or in their eyes "released" -- maybe because he had an injury or something. But, in reality, Gardner was waived in order to get through to IR in the process I have already explained. Pats1 02:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)