User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2006/December

ap v/s ab
Hello again :) I have a question about the differences between the two. I know ap means son of, but does not ab mean grandson of? The reason I ask is because of Gruffydd ap Cynan was known in historical records as Gruffydd ab Iago

"When Gruffydd first appeared on the scene in Wales the Welsh annals several times refer to him as "grandson of Iago" rather than the more usual "son of Cynan", indicating that his father was little known in Wales." From Cynan ap Iago page.

So I am confused. Also, if ab is not grandson of, is there a patronomic for this?

Hope you have enjoyed your wikibreak!Drachenfyre 02:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi! I see James got in first with the explanation of this. In modern Welsh "grandson" is "wyr" (with a circumflex which I'n too jetlagged to remember the charcters for at the moment). "grandson of" was not normally used as a patronymic; the description of Gruffydd [ap Cynan] in the annals as "the grandson of Iago" is the only example I know of this, and must indicate that his father was unknown in Wales whereas his grandfather was known.


 * I'll get back to you regarding Welsh law and inhertance by women when I've had a chance to consult "The Welsh law of women". Basically, I think, there had to be no male member of the kindred with a claim. Rhion 15:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Hellow there.I didn't understand your question fully but i think you asked for the diffrance between "ab" and "ap".It simple, Ab is used when a vowel is after it while Ap is used before a consonant(did i spell that right?). The Vowels in the welsh language are: e, i, o, u, w, y. E.x. Gruffydd ab Iago - Letter I which is a vowel is the first letter of the fathers name so ab is used.Sion 22:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi I've finally got my home internet connection back - sorry to take so long in responding. "Ap" dates at least as far back as the 12th century. Previously, "vab" ("fab" in modern orthograohy) would have been used. "Map" is a very old form, and there would certainly be no justification for using "Llywelyn map Gruffydd" for example.Rhion 12:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Melisende of Jerusalem
Greetings. I have a strange request. I am a Welsh learner but clearly do not have any expertise in translating. I rewrote an artical that I truely wish to see translated into Welsh. The artical is on Melisende of Jerusalem. In your free time, might you translate that artical for me? It would mean alot to me to see it written in "the language of heaven". Also, can you tell me for truth if Melisant or Melisent is the Welsh version of Melisende? I know that Melissendia appears in the Merionedd Lay Subsidy rolls of 1293.

thank you very much for any assistance you might be able to give,Drachenfyre 14:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, Drachenfyre. You really will have to wait a while, I'm afraid - at least until September.  At the moment I'm making the sort of contributions that take half an hour at most - more a distraction from more pressing work than anything else.  Translating a longish article would take rather longer and rather more attention to detail (ancient names need translating as much as other words).  I'm afraid I don't know the Welsh version of Melisende either.  Melisant and Melisent both look plausible.  Melissendia looks too Latinate to be really Welsh, but I'll try to look into it for you. Hope that's some help!  I'll do my best with translating as soon as work eases. garik 14:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've long left Wales, but I suppose I could translate this article into school-boy Welsh. But I'm not sure of the point? Is there any Welsh connection in this article whatsoever? Tomrawlinson 23:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No real connection no... other then I truely would love to see the artical in the language I am learning. It would help, as I know the subject so well, to see how it might translate. If you could help, I would be so appreciative!Drachenfyre 05:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Wales
Polls are not binding. Also, I'm not the only editor who would think so; if you like, I will ask others their opinion on this, which might be a good idea given the naked POVery you and one or two others are showing on this issue. MarkThomas 15:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I have left comments about your edit of the introductory section of the Wales article. Suggest we broaden its scope and move some of the very useful historical detail. Happy to discuss. Normalmouth 17:26, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Drachenfyre, just to let you know I've followed up to your comment at Talk:Wales. Vashti 15:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wales: principality?
Hi... just checking that you saw my comment under "Principality of Wales", as it would have been easy to miss. Vashti 08:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)