User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2007/April

Contemporary Welsh Law
I was thinking about your idea and an early article would not do any harm. An article about the new powers would make it clear to people how it will all work. I am wondering if you could set up the article or you want someone else to? Amlder20 22:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, I will leave you deal with it, but I am around if any information is needed. Also I am sure there's an error on the Government of Wales 2006 article, I don't think the Measures and the Orders-in-Council are the same. Always leave me a message if you need any info.Amlder20 20:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I forgot also, don't forget to put the Politics of Wales template in there, it will help. Good luck!Amlder20 20:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * How are your plans going? Amlder20 20:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I received your message, I am pleased. At the moment I am not pleased about a small poll going on over a category I created. If this poll fails I intend to leave Wikipedia as to me it's like a vote of no confidence in my work, but if you want me to, I will hang around to help you with your Contemporary Welsh Law article. Amlder20 21:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I will stick around then, only for this article I can't wait to see. Amlder20 19:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, I just thought I'd let you know that I am remaining on the Welsh language wiki, and I am creating the article Cyfraith Cyfoes Cymru, which will be an article that will translate your article Contemporary Welsh law into Cymraeg. Amlder20 10:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent, I am pleased with this article you created. I also have a little Welsh Assembly source for you. Government of Wales Act 2006, this will contain some detail on the law making powers of the Assembly after May 2007. Amlder20 19:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

How is your article on Contemporary Welsh law going? (please leave message under same subject in talk page) Amlder20 18:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I have had no time to translate that article for you. Meanwhile do me a favour and tell me what you think of my additions to the Contemporary Welsh Law page. The List of Measures of the National Assembly for Wales article has also been created. Amlder20 19:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Tell me, I think the Counsel General for Wales article should be made once a Counsel General has been appointed at the Welsh Assembly, what do you think? Amlder20 21:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Plaid Cymru's early leadership and fascism

 * Here are two quotes from two academic texts, both from highly respected authors:


 * 1. "Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru, founded in 1925, significantly during the Eisteddfod at Pwllheli, was in the main a pressure group of intellectuals and litterateurs campaigning on behalf of the Welsh language. Its early politics were complicated and compromised by the apparent neo-fascism of its charismatic first President, the poet and dramatist Saunders Lewis, and the sympathy for fascist-style corporatism shown by him and other Roman Catholic leaders of the party."
 * - Morgan, K O, Welsh Devolution: the Past and the Future in Scotland and Wales: Nations Again? (Ed. Taylor, B and Thomson, K), (1999), University of Wales Press.


 * 2. "During the 1930s Plaid became even more of a right wing force. It’s journal refused to resist Hitler or Mussolini, ignored or tolerated anti-Semitism and, in effect, came out in support of Franco. In 1941 Saunders Lewis’ pamphlet "The Church and the World" explicitly rejected the war against Nazi Germany while in 1944 Ambrose Bebb condemned the plot to assassinate Hitler."
 * - See also Williams, G A When Was Wales?, (1985), Penguin


 * From those two authoritative sources I derived the following sentence:


 * "The party’s early political appeal was complicated further by the apparent neo-fascism of Saunders Lewis, who assumed the Presidency in 1926 together with similar leanings by other leading members."


 * Now, please tell me exactly where I have erred in my interpretation and representation of this information, or please identify why these sources are not considered sufficient. Normalmouth 07:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I note you objected to the use of one source, (K O Morgan) on the grounds he described Saunders Lewis's "neo-fascism". You stated on Talk:Plaid Cymru that "You can not be a "neo-facist" before 1945 (end of facism in Itally/Germany), and possibly even 1979 (end of Franco Spain). Neo facism is a post WWII concept, "New Facist," as opposed to old or classic facist. So... either Lewis was a legitimate facist in the 1920s/30s or Saunders Lewis was not a facist in the 1920s or 30s...this is clearly a biased statement."


 * You may be interested to learn of this criticism levelled against PC in the Western Mail in January 1943, during the time of the University of Wales Parliamentary by election:


 * "Week by week for years they have been preaching their doctrines of racialism and neo-Fascism in the by-ways of Wales".


 * The attack was made by Prof. W J Gruffydd, the Liberal Candidate for the seat and therefore Saunders Lewis's opponent. The nature of his attack isn't important, and clearly as a rival to PC he had an agenda. However, I thought you might be interested to learn that the term "neo-Fascism" was used before the end of WWII, and in connection with Saunders Lewis personally. I hope therefore you will reconsider your earlier objections to this source.


 * Lastly, you asked for an exact text on the Saunders Lewis quote that used to feature in the article, but has since been removed. The primary source was the party's journal Y Ddraig Goch, from June 1933. I hope that clarifies things. Normalmouth 07:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your message. I'll have a look at the neo-fascism article with a view to including this information.


 * I don't think the reference does feature heavily, nor is it solely connected to SL. I've done a very long post on Talk: Plaid Cymru to try and explain why I think this is worthy of inclusion, but in short the opinions of PC's early leadership (perceived or real) were a significant factor holding up the party's early growth. I do accept that this is is a somewhat charged subject, that is why I have attempted to be meticulous in my sourcing. Ultimately, however, this is an academic article; we should not omit important and pertinent information because of present-day sensitivities. That is akin to censorship. Normalmouth 08:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Carnedd Llywelyn
Hi Drachenfyre, I don't know if you're still following the endless argument about Carnedd Llywelyn (or "Carnedd Llewelyn") but I see you've contibuted to it in favour of the Welsh spelling. There's only one strong and persistent objector. Here's what I've just written at the bottom of the page to try and get this finished with once and for all:

I've just read through this page again in order to come up with some stats. Here they are:


 * Contributors' views.
 * FOR Carnedd LLYWELYN - 5 (CatlinJ, BrynLlywelyn, Hogyn Lleol, Enaidmawr, Drachenfyre)
 * Initially neutral, finally in favour of Carnedd LLYWELYN - 1 (Blisco)
 * UNDECIDED/NEUTRAL - 1 (Stemonitis)
 * Generally against - 1 (garik)
 * Strongly against - 1 (ras52)


 * Authorities quoted in list (see above).
 * Carnedd LLYWELYN - 18
 * Carnedd LLEWELYN - 10 (mostly following the OS or unreliable, e.g. GoogleEarth)

I move that this article be moved to Carnedd Llywelyn as the majority of contributors to this debate are for it and the sources back their argument.

We need a vote of some sort. Please could you add a comment (in favour / against) so we can finally get this over with? Enaidmawr 00:15, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Carnedd Llywelyn
I have written to some of the other protagonists regarding this article, but could you take a look at the latest deletions by ras52, I put in other citations and references yesterday and they have been unilaterally deleted by the above user, I have not reverted the deletions as its probably best to get some idea if there is any support for citing the RGS and other such bodies, and other books, i.e. "Gerald of Wales" in 1198. It took quite a while trawling through the libraries to locate them, but they got deleted in justa few minutes. Admitedly they are not perfect, but I didn't deserve that treatment. Diolch yn fawr. (Gowron 08:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC))

Baneri Tywysogaeth
Croeso - glad u like them! (Please correct any Welsh I have mangled!) Yes I would be really interested to see the files you have on the arms of some of the early princes'lords of Wales and would be delighted to render them so they are larger and clearer. Please send them to jfrankcom@btinternet.com

Diolch yn fawr

James Frankcom 14:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)