User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2007/August

Plaid Cymru in the 30's
Helo, just noticed your re-wording on the PC article. I've been following the 'discussion' about this particular section of the article for some time but haven't contributed to the debate, although I'm very unhappy about Normalmouth's addition. The changes you have made is similar to one of NM's previous amendments, and makes it seem more anti-PC then the current one (I'm sure it's not your intention). I admit I am a Welsh nationalist and a PC voter, but I think the reference to Plaid Cymru and Fascism is wrong to be included.

Firstly, I don't deny that Saunders Lewis may have praised Hitler in the mid 30's, but so did Lloyd George (in 1936) and Winston Churchill praised Musollini [sp] in late 20's. This doesn't mean SL is not a fascist, but he could just be a man of his time more than anything else. We're not told who the other leading members are supposed to be.

Secondly, and more importantly from a Wikipedia point of view, the "metaciously researched" quote of the "highly respected" Dr Morgan is pure speculation. Poor showing in early elections could be down to a number of factors, namely lack of funds and bad/no coverage from media. Also, I'm reading a book about Gwynfor Evans at the moment, and SL plays a big part in the first part of the book. In it the author mentions how Plaid's opposition made a lot of the fact that SL was a Catholic as opposed to a fascist. Apparently the Welsh (and British?) population was quite anti-Catholic at the time. Possibly something to do with events in Ireland at the time?

Anyway, your talk page probably isn't the right place to have dumped all of the above (and sorry for that), but since you took part in the early discussion re. the PC article and questioned Normalmouth's intentions yourself I thought I'd start here. When I'm more confidence to have a proper debate on the PC talkpage, I might just cut and paste this there!


 * Hello prior poster! I do not know who you are (should leave your signature :) ) but would love to discuss further with you on your knowladge to bring balance to the Plaid Cymru pages. Currently I started a History of Plaid Cymru page that mayhap you would be interested in, and further edits on the Ieuan Wyn Jones pages. I look forward to working with you! Drachenfyre 03:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Wps, it was I. I'm not hugely into politics, just that I don't feel this particular part of the article is fair at all, and is an obvious attempt in my opinion to falsely associate PC with fascism (or neo-fascism of was originally attempted before you pointed out neo-fascism didn't exist then!).  My knowledge of PC history is more or less limited to the book whick I'm now reading.


 * I noticed the History of Plaid Cymru page you have started. Are you proposing to insert a link to this page in place of certain sections of the main PC article?  It looks good to me, although some questions:
 * a) although I can't fault them, the way you've split the different periods seem a bit random - in a way I prefer Normalmouth's splitting into decades
 * b) not sure about the way party leaders is presented (in a visual/wikipedia sense that is)
 * c) how do you decide the ideology of each person?


 * Two things for addition to the article (with info/refernces I can possibly provide later)
 * 1) Although the Tynged yr Iaith radio talk and Cymdeithas yr Iaith's formation was beneficial to PC as it allowed them to concentrate on politics as you say, it wasnt SL intention for a seperate organisation to be set up. He intended PC to become more involved in welsh languagae campaigning.
 * 2) I've already forgotten the dates and the name, but PC set up a private radio station in the 50's, maninly as they were denied a party political broadcast on state radio. At the time there was a ruling that a party must contest all seats (i.e all UK seats) before they were granted a broadcast.  As PC only contested Welsh seats, this was an obvious disadvantage.


 * Hope some of this helps--Rhyswynne 11:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)