User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2007/December

History of Plaid Cymru
Thanks for your work on this article. I've left a small note of concern on the talk page on which you might want to comment. Sam Blacketer 22:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Lewis Valentine
Nice to see you back. I see that Anatiomaros was the one who added the image, so I have asked him to respond - he speaks Welsh properly! He may contact you through wicipedia instead of here. Deb 12:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've given a fuller reply to your query about getting images onto the English Wikipedia over on my talk page. The basic problem at the moment is that there's no copyright information at all, but I have made a few suggestions for you! -- Arwel (talk) 12:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Drachenfyre. Deb left me a message to contact you on cy. (cy:Defnyddiwr:Anatiomaros). I presume you need the details for the Lewis Valentine image. It was scanned by me from a small poor quality photo printed in the 1937 Plaid Cymru pamphlet "Coelcerth Rhyddid." I can't see that there are any copyright problems there. If it's challenged for some reason - and goodness knows why! - you can always claim it as a publicity image or something. But after all we are talking of an image created by myself of a 1937 poorly printed photograph. Surely no copyright problem there? Enaidmawr 14:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi again. I see you're using these images in various articles. Please be aware that simply putting a "fair use" template on the image description page on its own is not enough to make the use acceptable: for each and every article which uses the image you also need to give a "fair use rationale" explaining why it's OK to use the image on that page - use the template ":Template:Non-free media rationale" on the image description page, otherwise Betacommandbot will keep tagging the image for deletion from the article, and orphanbot will delete it a week later. See Image description page. Regards -- Arwel (talk) 07:50, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * No, the image is OK where it is, it's just the image description which needs to have a "fair use rationale" added for each time that the image is used in an article. See the link I gave before! -- Arwel (talk) 08:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I still don't see what the problem is. Why should this be classed as "Non-free media"? This is crazy. I make an enhanced scan of a small faded newspaper-quality photo which is printed in a 1937 pamphlet in my possession, primarily as a resource for wikipedia, and the use of that image is hemmed about by all this bureaucracy. It IS free. Use it as such. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem is one of copyrights, quite literally the right to make copies of something which is published. I think it's fair to say that over on cy.Wicipedia a fairly relaxed attitude has been taken to using pictures from external sources, rather less so to text which has been lifted from elsewhere; each language version of Wikipedia has independently developed its own policies about copyright - e.g. German Wikipedia absolutely forbids the use of "fair use" images, since the concept doesn't exist in German law. The Wikimedia Foundation has certain principles (see this Meta Wikipedia article) which apply to all Wikipedias, and in particular this policy resolution which the Foundation passed last March. The implication of these policies is that Wikipedia's requirements for using "fair use" images are considerably more rigorous than those required by US law; I personally think the whole thing is rather overdone and the hobgoblin of a foolish determination to only use free content sources, but that's the policy which we all have to abide by. While a minor language Wikipedia like cy can slip under the radar, en Wikipedia is much more prominent, and this is why the rules are applied much more strictly there. Now, to come back to the issue of the Lewis Valentine photo, despite what Enaidmawr thinks, copyright normally rests with the person who created the article rather than with the person who currently owns the document, so in this case it belongs to the original photographer who took the picture back in around 1937 and the photographers' estate will still hold the copyright until 70 years after his death, so the picture is almost certainly still in copyright and in order to use it you will have to make a "fair use rationale" for each use of the picture. I know it's an enormous hassle, but if it's not done then sooner or later the bots will find the image and delete it, so I would urge you to get it right first time in order to avoid having lots of wasted work. -- Arwel (talk) 01:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for explaining the situation regarding wikipedia policy on this issue, Arwel. I do not, of course, believe that I myself own the copyright on the original picture just because I have a copy of the pamphlet in my possession (I believe there have been certain legal arguments about the point in which a manipulated picture becomes a creative work in its own right, but let's move on). Speaking of copyright, no credit is given for the photo in the pamphlet and I rather imagine, with it being such a radical cause, that the image was freely given to Plaid by the photographer; if that is not the case then Plaid Cymru may guilty of copyright infringement in retrospect, not that I think anybody would take them to court over it!
 * To say that "the whole thing is rather overdone" is an understatement. This will create particular problems with Wales-related illustrations as they are so hard to come by in the first place. However I accept that if that is wikpedia policy we'll just have to live with it and hope it's changed in the future (the sooner the better). I believe they did away with intellectual property at one stage in Cuba; can we register the Wikipedia Foundation there? Well, maybe not. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Multiple tiny edits
Argh! I was just looking for something in the history of the Welsh language article and 90% of the last 100 or so edits seem to be by you, with no edit summaries, and fractional changes. If you're adding a sentence, saving, deleting a sentence fragment, saving, changing a sub-heading to a sub-sub-heading and saving, etc, couldn't you use a sandbox to frame it all and then just add it all as one big addition with an edit summary? The history of the article is completely unnavigable now. :( Telsa (talk) 10:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! :) Telsa (talk) 10:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

History of Plaid Cymru
You're welcome! Glad I could be of help :) I see someone's already started reviewing the article on the talk page, thats good to see. Jashiin (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:D.J. Williams 1936.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:D.J. Williams 1936.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 06:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)