User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2008/April

Mediation for Scotland article
As an agreement between editors at Scotland seems ever more unlikely, some users have decided to contact mediation. However, mediation require the acceptance of all involved parties. Would you be willing to accept? Thanks for your compliance...--Cameron (t|p|c) 18:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Archive header
Note this - as a result I have removed your archive code until you fix the target code. Agathoclea (talk) 22:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Signature
If you click on "my preferences" above top right, you will see the signature box in user profile. If you then copy and paste the following:

♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk

into that box and save it, then your signature should appear like this -

♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk

Hopefully!!! ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 20:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

test&#91;&#91;User:Drachenfyre&#124;&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;♦Drachenfyre♦&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;·&lt;small&gt;&#91;&#91;User_talk:Drachenfyre&#124;Talk&#93;&#93;&lt;/small&gt; (talk) 21:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

test 2 ♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk 21:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Two maps in Template:Infobox_Country
04-April-2008: To show two maps, use the 2 sets of parameters:
 * For map 1: image_map, map_width, with map_caption;
 * For map 2: image_map2, map2_width, with map_caption2.

Note the 2nd width is "map2_width" and using incorrect "map_width2" will be ignored. Remember to include "px" in widths (such as: map2_width=270px).

As typical, each map is named by only the file-name portion (image_map=XXX.jpg), so remember to omit "Image:" from the name. Note that image magnification has "threshold sizes" where just a slight enlargement can make blurry edges sharpen: a size of 270px might be blurry, while 280px could be crystal clear. Rule of thumb: if map labels are almost readable size, then 10% larger becomes readable. If creating your own maps, make labels 5-pixels-thick for each 600px of map width, so those labels can be readable when thumbnail size. As an example, see Hong Kong Disneyland on the map at Lantau Island. -Wikid77 (talk) 17:09, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Gruffudd ap Cynan
Hi Drachenfyre, sorry to be so long in replying but I've not been doing much here over the Easter period. You're welcome to use the image of Gruffudd ap Cynan. I had to rummage to find the book I used but found it at last. Its from Ein Hen Hen Hanes by W. Ambrose Bebb, a history book for younger readers published by Hughes and Son, Wrexham, 1932. The original picture, by T. Prytherch, dates from about 1900. It's quite a well-known image found in at least a couple of other books from that period, some printed earlier (have to have another rummage!). Can't see there should be any problem but I know from experience how fussy some people can be, especially on Commons (which is why I've given up on that option). If there is any problem let me know. (PS For what it's worth, the Welsh caption reads "Gruffudd escaping"). Cofion, Enaidmawr (talk) 22:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Color for Wales Infobox_Country
05-April-2008: I have added a white border around the Infobox_Country for article "Wales" to allow coloring the edges in a reddish hue. The green auto-coloring of the Ireland Infobox was generated by class as "Island" (rather than "Country"), and there is no option for a reddish Infobox_Country, yet. Meanwhile, the new border in "Wales" can be set to a reddish hue by changing the table-row ("tr") as follows, when editing the "Wales" article:


 * Change line 4 from: &lt;tr style="background:#FEFEFE;">
 * Change line 4 to:  &lt;tr style="background:#CE0022;">

Typically, the color bright red is culturally marked in the USA as indicating error or STOP, as on a roadway stop-sign. Plus, Wikipedia uses red to indicate a broken/undefined wikilink. However, many sports cars are red, but Chinese culture treats bright red as a sign of fortune or good luck. For those reasons, avoid using too much bright red, and use a dimmer, reddish background as the border color for the "Wales" article, such as hex-color #CE0022. Beware that people might complain about a reddish border on the Wales Infobox as being excessive, so you might need to get several people to support your choice for border coloring. Good luck. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Other shades of red
05-April-2008: Here are several other colors to try, depending on the level of the R/G/B (red/green/blue) components in the color setting: #CE9999 is lighter than #CE2222.

The higher the last 4 hex characters, the more of a washout gray will occur in diluting the effect of the red. The final 2 hex digits, controlling blue, will make the color shift towards purple, with higher values at the end: intense purple is #FF00FF.

The first 2 hex characters control the red intensity (with the prefix "#88" as dim red, "#FF" as brightest red). Adding green will turn the coloring towards yellow, which becomes tan or brown when red & green are both low numbers. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Left border wider on Infobox_Country
05-April-2008: The Template:Infobox_Country has a preset wider left margin, but that might be controllable by passing another parameter. The lefthand gap for an infobox is intended to separate the middle of the page, between the text and the box alongside. I suspect Template:Infobox_Country would need to be modified to allow custom parameters for the width of the border. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Created Wales map like Scotland
05-April-2008: I have extracted new map "Image:Map Wales Location UK.jpg" as a quick UK-area map of Wales, as you mentioned under Talk:Wales, in the same style as done for "Scotland" with Green-copyright license crediting artist User:David Liuzzo. To create the map, I downloaded the full Wales-in-EU map, then extracted a 480x430 copy/paste portion in the graphics editor MS Paint, finally saving the image in quick JPEG format (I've created dozens of map images). Now, before you put the new map into the Wales Infobox, I guess you'll need agreement from some other users, but you could contact them personally for their opinions. Fortunately, switching maps for similar maps is typically accepted by everyone. The new map sizes could be: map_width=260px and map2_width=260px (or 270px?). -Wikid77 (talk) 18:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Wales Map British Isles.PNG|150px]] [[Image:Wales Map Europe.PNG|150px]] [[Image:Wales Map EU.PNG|150px]]

talk:Scotland
Drachenfyre. I am posting here to avoid cluttering up an already cluttered page. I am well aware that different parts of the UK got different forms. The one I linked to (2001_Scotland_Household.pdf) is the Scottish one, and it doesn't have a box for nationality. It does have a box for ethicity. The BBC report you linked to does talk about nationality, bizzarrely, but an earlier BBC report here does not. The figures (27% of people in Scotland call themselves British) come from the General Household Survey, not the census. Where have you got the 73% number from? Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 15:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message. As I'm sure you know, nationality and ethnicity are different things, the BBC don't use them interchangably as a rule - it's just that one article got it completely wrong.  FYI the figure for Scottish nationality from the 2001 General Household Survey is 80%, not 73%. Regards, Mr Stephen (talk) 19:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Re protest vote
I really don't think there will ever be an agreement for the reasons already given, so I will stick by my decision! I hope I am wrong and once again wish you luck. --Jack forbes (talk) 05:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia: List of colours
07-April-2008: Just in case you didn't think that Wikipedia was an amazing collection of information, more colors than most people would ever learn in an entire lifetime are in article: List of colors. The title also redirects for British-variant spelling "List of colours" or "colors" in American spelling. Thanks for contributing to the history of Wales, Kingdom of Gwynedd, and Kingdom of Powys. -Wikid77 (talk) 12:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Styalsitic borders
Mainly because they are only on that one page, I have never seen a border used anywhere else. Other nations have the former country infobox but not the border, so it is unnecessary for only one former country to have it. Rcduggan (talk) 19:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The only thing I had issue with was just putting it only on Welsh kingdoms. But I suppose it is alright, you can do what you want with those things. Rcduggan (talk) 22:13, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Cantrefs of Wales
Hi mate - I found an excellent source for the cantrefi of Wales; http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/cantref.html the original source is The text of the Bruts from the Red book of Hergest (edited by John Rhys and J. Gwenogvryn Evans. Oxford: J.G. Evans, 1890) it states "Such are the Cantrefs of Gwynned--15--and the Commots are 36" - I think we should work on getting this set up James Frankcom (talk) 21:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Angevin Empire article
I saw you stopped by my biggest contribution on wikipedia. It took me months to write this article, I hope you enjoyed reading it. I tried to be as neutral as possible while writing it. However I have a question, in the first paragraph of the Geography and Administration I originaly wrote "Welsh Kingdoms", however someone changed it to "Princedoms", but in the 12th century I really think we should refer to them as Kingdoms. I didn't revert the edit to avoid an argument and well, kingdoms can be said to be princedoms in a way, yet I think of reverting the edit, what do you think about it? Matthieu (talk) 21:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * ok, I'm satisfied with both versions actually. You know I wanted to make the article longer and expand to Henry III's reign, his relations with Louis IX and so one because he indeed conceeded Capetian victory over Normandy and Anjou only after some moments and asked to be buried next to his grand-father in Chinon, but the article is just already damn too long :p Matthieu (talk) 21:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Wales
Hello,

I hope you don't feel aggreived by my feedback on Talk:Wales. I could've pretended to like the infobox colours, but really couldn't do so. It wasn't meant to be taken as a challenge or to undermine your great work elsewhere, I just wanted to be honest.

I hope you don't feel that I'm one of these folk with an "agenda"! The Wales article has been neglected, I concur. With so much going on with Scotland all the time, Wales tends to get overlooked. At very least your edits have brought the page back to the fore.


 * ) --Jza84 |  Talk 21:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello Drachenfyre. By 'agenda', what exactly do ya mean? GoodDay (talk) 21:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Stick with the changes Drachenfyre we will get there. Oh to the unsigned author above,  Wales has not been neglected, many of us have been involved for some time thank you very much  --Snowded (talk) 22:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Don;t let the Scots get to you. They volunteered to join England, we had no choice!   Lets fight this one  --Snowded (talk) 22:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ya know Drachenfyre; I think I'll leave the England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland articles alone. You're not the first editor, to suggest (directly or indirectly) that I'm an Unionist agendists; or to question my methods on these 4 articles. GoodDay (talk) 23:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry you (Drachenfyre) feel the way you do. Again, I hope you don't feel aggrieved by any of my actions. I have really admired your work at Talk:Scotland and have the utmost respect for you. I hope, on reflection, you agree that there is no "agenda" on my part, other than moving the article forwards. Keep me in the loop. :) --Jza84 |  Talk 23:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Evolving Wales to narrow colour border
10-April-2008: I have reduced the Wales colour border, for a while, to gain acceptance. It might be possible to expand wider at a later time. For people accustomed to the former white/hollow Infobox_Country, the wide border could be a shock, plus the reddish colour is culturally marked as "STOP" or "red alert" for some people. I narrowed the border as just 8-pixel width, dimming the red slightly to "#CE4444" but could be widened after a few weeks when people recover from the "shock" of seeing a reddish border. In corporate America, almost everything in an office is dull gray or neutral "oatmeal" tan colored: they even advise to not wear men's cologne during job interviews because it might remind people in the office of dreaded ex-boyfriends or blacksheep relatives. At this point, I agree that picture borders would be "too much" for other people to tolerate, although I feel they are a good idea, and picture borders are used in elegant websites. The problem is basically the issue of herding the "teeming masses" of the general public: some people can be very stubborn, and it is often best to "let sleeping dogs lie" and not alert troublesome people. Visible changes should be made slowly. -Wikid77 (talk) 13:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Wales intro
I think we (the community) need to look again at the Wales intro... I'm concerned by the peacock terms that seem to be proliferating - we've got a "world-renowned" waterfront in there now - as well as a few unreferenced terms that could be construed as opinion ("vibrant") and others that aren't meaningful ("engaging").

The part about national identity is weak as well - "later influenced by other European historical events" - which ones? How did they influence Welsh national identity? I understand that this is supposed to be an intro, and not go into much detail, but surely we can do better than what's there at the moment.

I know these criticisms aren't very constructive, but I wanted to highlight the problems. I know we're supposed to be "bold", but as a courtesy to the regular editors of this popular section, I'm reluctant to take the initiative in making revisions until consensus emerges. Pondle (talk) 21:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for making the changes to the Wales intro. It looks neutral and encyclopedic now. I will make a few revisions to the bit about national identity, music & sport - I think we should say, in a short and succinct way, something about the things that Wales became renowned for in the 19th C. - religious non-conformity, political radicalism, and of course, being "the land of song". I have references for all this. Pondle (talk) 17:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Postpone color changes due to mental issues
12-April-2008: I am in agreement with you, the color-border is not worth the current struggle, right now. Thousands of other articles have colored infoboxes, so we know the time will come. Your ideas are very good, but even the best ideas take time to accept ("They all laughed at Einstein"). Since you have such good ideas, I'm sure you can do the same in other ways in other articles. Thousands of major articles need help, but drop Wikipedia when your outside life is more important. I do. The color-border problem has become a crisis issue for the long-term user Jza84 who has done much, and I don't want to drive anyone "over the edge":


 * Color changes can wait: To User:Jza84: That's fine. I've read what other people have said, and we're in no hurry on this issue. I appreciate your many contributions to Wikipedia, and don't want this to become a mental condition. I can sense that the other people are not get-a-life types, and we are ALL ready to drop Wikipedia on a moment's notice. You've caught me on a slow rainy weekend, but I typically even work outdoors in the rain, and Wikipedia being 10% information & 90% deformation is a low priority for me. Good luck. Have a good time. -Wikid77 (talk) 22:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm going on wikibreak now. I'll be back in a few weeks. -Wikid77 (talk) 22:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Unacceptable
I find this comment totally biased and unacceptable and would like an apology. --Jza84 |  Talk 09:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Simillary, please take note of WP:CANVASS. Your messages are rather one sided and select editors of preference, which doesn't help the project. --Jza84 |  Talk 09:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You're still canvassing, and using a hostile message I object to. Why? --Jza84 |  Talk 10:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted
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Image copyright problem with Image:490px-Lewis Valentine 1936.jpg
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