User talk:Drachenfyre/Archives/2008/July

Gwynedd in the High Middle Ages
I love this article, so I hope you don't mind me going through your work every so often picking up typos and so on. Let me know if you're not happy with my (very minor) inputs, and I'll refrain from editing there. I've been thinking about how best to phrase the opening paragraph, given that, in terms of good grammar, "Gwynedd in the High Middle Ages" is not a period, it's a place (in a period). What would you say to :- "Gwynedd is an area in the north of Wales. Gwynedd in the High Middle Ages covers a period of Welsh, British, and European history spanning the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries (AD 1000–1300). The High Middle Ages were preceded by the Early Middle Ages and followed by the Late Middle Ages." Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ditto and agree with suggestion Ehrenkater (talk) 23:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Drachenfyre, for your comments. I'm happy to "translate" parts of the article into "British English" if that's what you want - personally it doesn't matter either way to me.  I'm also happy to go through it for typos, grammar etc. (though I think Ehrenkater picked up more than I did!) One thing I have noticed is that - for reasons I fully understand - you often use Welsh names such as Môn where English equivalents (Anglesey) exist and are conventionally used on English Wikipedia.  I suspect that, if you were wanting to go down the GA route, they would need to be "Anglicised" - what would your feelings be about that? Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I take your point, though personally I take a softer line - in my view we need to bear in mind agreed guidance (after all, none of us own articles) and the need (on English Wikipedia) to inform an English-speaking audience. But I'm not going to get into an argument over it, I'm certainly not going to change the substance of any of your text (unless in my view it obviously requires clarification), and I look forward to proofreading (and if necessary correcting) your future contributions.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Plaid Cymru
Not sure if you knew this was available, so here. Cheers. &#8734;&#9788;Geaugagrrl (T) / (C) 06:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

That Gwynfor Evans book I was on about
Sorry fro not helping any more on the Plaid Cymru History bit, but i've just noticed an English translation of Gwynfor Evans biography is now avaialble, see Y Lolfa's site. gwales.com (a site by the Welsh Book Council) is also a good site for sending books to the US so I've heard. --Rhyswynne (talk) 07:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Ieuan Wyn Jones
Hi there. Use of a copyrighted image (even a Crown Copyright one) can only ever be included under a fair use rationale. Crown Copyright is not compatible with GFDL (as noted in the image's copyright tag) and as per Wikipedia:Non-free content, the image is a replaceable fair-use image. It's 'replaceable' in the sense that it can be replaced with a free-use image - someone can go out and take a photo of him, upload it to Wikipedia with a free-use licence. Cheers. DrFrench (talk) 10:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Please stop adding back non-free images where they have been correctly removed. Have a look at WP:NONFREE for more details of why. Even if a fair-use is claimed, a spearate fair-use rationale must be completed for every article that the image is used in. Thanks.  DrFrench (talk) 21:32, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually you are not correct. If there is no fair-use rationale for using an image in a specific article, it should be removed from that article. DrFrench (talk) 21:38, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at this and I am not sure of the position, but it is not my area of expertise. Can I suggest that you place it on on the admin board for someone to look at and make a decision?-- Snowded   TALK  08:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have tried to be as helpful as I possibly can in directing you towards the relevant information on Wikipedia policies, but I notice you are still reverting my edits and adding back images that are copyright violations. As well as the information posted here, I posted a complete summary at Talk:History of Plaid Cymru. In the past 24 hours you have reverted my edit to Ieuan Wyn Jones on three occasions. I assume that you are aware of the three-revert rule? Continued reverts could lead to you being blocked from editing Wikipedia - and no-one wants that to happen, as in general, your edits appear to be positive.  (By the way; before you say that I have also contravened 3RR, the rule says that reverting the "addition of copyright violations or content that unquestionably violates the non-free content policy." does not count under 3RR.)  I urge you strongly not to add the copyright violations back to the articles - but instead look to see if you can source a suitable free image to replace the copyrighted ones. Cheers. DrFrench (talk) 10:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm saddened that you seem determined not to accept the freindly guidance I have given you on this matter, or engage me dircetly in dialgie to explain why you feel that Wikipedia copyright policies do not apply to you. Instead you are posting elsewhere accusing me of having political motives in my editing. That's not very nice is it? I'm sure you wouldn't like that if someone started spreading untrue rumours about you.Let me make this clear, I do not have any political motivation. I do not have any objection to the use of a photo to illustrate the people in question. But you cannot use a copyrighted image in the exaples given. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry that you have decided to take thsi as some sort of personal attack, it's not. My sole concern in this matter is the adherence of Wikipedia copyright policies. The policies are are there to protect the integrity of Wikipedia - whether you like that or not. I don't want to see you getting blocked, but if you carry on the way you are, then you will end up being blocked. So please, take a look at the guidelines and you will see why those images do not qualify to be used. Thank you. DrFrench (talk) 14:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Wynn family
Why remove them all?-- Snowded  TALK  08:50, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not removing them, actually reordering them. Where does it show that I removed them? Basically, I had incorrectly listed Jane Thewel as the great grandaughter of John Wynn, 5th Baronet. She was the great grandaughter of the 1st baronet... through a second son. When I correct this, I am very surprised at the result is very disturbing, as it leads to a family other then the Williams-Wynns as the male-preference primogeniture heirs to the titular prince of Wales! I am not yet believing it myself! ♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk 09:11, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Mea culpa, I did not read it properly. Mind you I don;t think you can make a case of primogeniture in welsh blood lines - it was one of the differences with the English! -- Snowded   TALK  09:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actially, my friend, according to historian Dr. John Davies, primogeniture was present in Welsh succession for the princely families as early as the 10th century, when it was also becoming the norm in France and elsewhere. According to Welsh Law, the crown or throne was indivisable, with rulership vested within a son and heir, an edling, as early as the 6th and 7th century. By the 10th century, the principle of primogeniture was gaining acceptance and becoming the norm, even in Wales, as Gruffyd ap Cynan and Owain Gwynedd, and all of their decendents claimed primacy over other Welsh lords as the senior line of decendents from Rhordi the Great, a fact ratified in the Council of Aberdyfi in 1216. People confuse the succession of princes with that of the freeman, and Welsh freemen did divide the land equally. But the princes divided it unequally, with the eldest getting the 'lion's share, the principle portion', to quoate Davies. Additionally, Sir John Wynn won his case based off of Welsh law, a fact that he would have lost or had to share if he had had to share the claim with other relitives. ♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk 09:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And in practice fratricide was common! OK I grant you the Welsh Princes were starting to realise the primogeniture was a strength for the Anglo-Norman enemy and things were changing.  My main point is that the last thing we need is a Welsh Royal family, personally I would sell the English lot to the highest bidder ....  -- Snowded   TALK  09:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "Starting to realize"? lol. It was in lock-step with the European counterparts. For the Aberffraw family, there was only one occuance (from the 9th century onwards, the time in which i have studied so far) in which fratricide occured: When Dafydd ab Owain usurpted the throne from his brother. Dafydd II and Llywelyn II had imprisioned their brothers, but not kill them.


 * I understand your reservations regarding a Welsh Royal Family, but that wasnt what the point of my changes were. My point was to demonstrate that there are claimants alive today. However, as DJ Davies and other Plaid members have demonstrated, I think a Constitutional Monarchy would be the best corse for Wales, if I had a voice in it, and using DJ Davies criteria, and setting aside the possible Cholmondeley claims (as closest in line to the preceeding claiment), the Williams-Wynn family seem to be the logical and most evident choice. ♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk 10:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Socialist republic if I have anything to do with it (but not in the sense of Jasper Fforde)-- Snowded  TALK  11:59, 30 July 2008 (UTC)-- Snowded   TALK  11:59, 30 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hahah, I know I can't convince you my friend. But other socialists, DJ Davies for one, did come around to the idea of a constitutional monarchy and a socialist democratic state. So, *shrug* prehaps you may too? I, unfortunatly, will not have a vote in such a matter. But if leading Plaid members such as Dafydd Wigley, Lord Elis-Thomas, and Elfyn Llwyd have their way, they may restore the Welsh monarchy. ♦Drachenfyre♦ · Talk 12:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Old Plaid Cymru logo
Hi there. Here's an example of the tidying-up I was talking about. I've updated the tag on Image:Triban Plaid Cymru.png from Public Domain to Copyrighted Logo. The only page where use of this logo would realistically qualify as fair-use is in the History of Plaid Cymru article, but it needs a fair-use rationale. As I am confident that it qualifies for one, I'm not going to remove it from that article - but as the uploader of the image you need to add the fair-use rationale asap. If you look at Template:Logo fur and follow the instructions on adding the template to Image:Triban Plaid Cymru.png and completing the details on template, then that's one copyright issue we can put to bed. Thank you. DrFrench (talk) 23:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)